Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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"I apologize to all of you for my emotional boohoo earlier, I was over whelmed and took it out in a post...I hear that smashing dishes is great for relieving stress
"Dawnn...apology not necessary - we've all been there!
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Dawnn -- But we're here for emotional boohoos! BTW - If you ever smash dishes make sure they're not Corningware -- they tend to bounce, not break, and cause more anxiety! ;-) Reach for the mis-matched coffee mugs instead!
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Heck, Dawnn, that's why we're here!
--CindyMN
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Emotional Boo Hoos is what makes us human.
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My husband said that if there is a Devine Plan or Intelligent Planning of the universe.... the bastard has a sick sense of humour. He says war, sickness, etc - good people turned into fighting machines, good people losing to the cancer beast... we have cancer and Fuch's Disease (hubby slowly going blind - cornea is the cause). So if someone designed our lives - hahahahah - its been a riot.
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Dream, I agree...with your DH
My own simple philosophy is...
We can't control the wind, but we can set our sails...
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Brenda and Analemma-Brenda: I'm touched by your words. Oddly, there is something so honestly comforting for me in the notion that death is simply ....just... the... end. It reminds me to turn my eyes and mind away from "the future" which doesn't exist and back to the moment that's happening. I figure we've all already won the lottery anyway, just by the fact that we got to be born on earth as sentient beings. Thanks, life!
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I agree Calypso..the circle of life...
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I am feeling a huge sense of loss with the death of Senator Kennedy, it is very difficult for me to watch the news coverage without tearing up. Is anyone else feeling this? It is as though a phase of my own life is over... a Kennedy brother has been in Washington for my whole life and now they are all gone. Teddy was also a champion of a single payer healthcare system which I wish would happen but I'm not optimistic that it will. Cancer sucks, he was taken too early, we still need him in Washington.
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Can I say something else about the language we use to talk about cancer death? I HATE to hear that so-and-so "lost his battle" with cancer. I know, there aren't that many metaphors, but swith the death of Senator Kennedy I'm hearing this again and it makes my toes curl. It seems to be almost exclusively used when a person dies of cancer. Cancer, in one form or another, will take a large percentage of these human bodies when it's time for them to revert to the elements. I just feel that the battle metaphor is the wrong language to use. "She died of cancer" works fine for me.
2acdmom, I too will miss Teddy. He was amazing at getting things done and he really really cared about taking care of people. I wonder who will step in.
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I totally agree about the battle metaphor and the angel thing. The battle metaphor has always made me crazy. Good grief, just say that they died of cancer. I wonder if people use the battle metaphor to make themselves feel better, calling it a "battle" lets them conjure up visions of a knight putting on armor and setting forth on a glorious crusade... And if anyone calls me an angel after I die, they are insane. I've been a b*tch all my life and dying won't change that...
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I am both inspired and relieved at the thought that death is THE END. Inspired because I am more likely to focus on life in the here and now and to try to experience each day to the fullest that I can or want; relieved because I am "just" one little life among billions and I can just be an ordinary person and still have a life worth living. I used to get all caught up in thinking that I need to do something SPECTACULAR with my life; now I know that I can find meaning and fulfillment and joy and live through illness and loss and grief, then remember (if that's still possible) at the end that I had a good life, the best life I knew how to live.
And in addition to not wanting to be referred to as an angel when I die, I don't want someone to refer to me as a victim of cancer or having lost the battle with cancer. I don't think I have ever heard about someone losing the battle with heart disease or some other illness; I also think that those of us who have chosen aggressive treatment at one time or other seem like brave little warriors to some, which is another source of aggravation to me. Personally I just don't find peace or even motivation for participating in treatment through thinking about battles being fought inside my body. Perhaps that works for others; sometimes I think people just pick up the lingo without even thinking about it. Also, if I have the opportunity to decide that I want hospice care, I do not want someone to tell me I have given up. I want to take responsibility as I can for living and for dying. I think that I owe it to myself, and to a degree, to others I love.
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I also hate the "battling cancer" metaphors. And the talk of how brave we are. Heck, anyone with cancer just does what they think they have to do and no more. We are not braver than anyone else, I think. Perhaps we suffer more....
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so true
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Exactly what I think, you all, regarding the tired cliche "battle with cancer". Which is related somehow to the notion that death is the enemy, anyway. Of course, Christianity exists for the purpose of making people think they can overcome "death the enemy". I mean really! "Resurrection of the Dead..."?? creepy, I say!
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I also agree about the battle metaphor -- it is so violent, I don't like it. Maybe it is used because cancer is so scary, we know so little about how it works, that we have to fight it, we can't control it. Sometimes I like being called a Warrior Girl -- (a friend does that) and I picture an Amazon or woman in leather and steel, not fighting, but sort of hanging around looking sexy and strong. When we're "battling" cancer, we spend a lot of time sitting in a lazy-boy with an IV and a book.
Re. bravery -- I don't think we're more brave than anyone else either -- it's a natural instinct to survive and you do what you need to do. It's isn't bravery to go into treatment, it's to avoid death! The time I spend moping around certainly isn't brave! I think it's more about perserverence. I do, however, think bravery comes when we begin to face death and look back on our lives -- it's not an easy thing to to. To come to terms with what we've done, not done, won't have the chance or time to do, that sometimes requires bravery to face up to, and accept it as being OK.
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True, Elizabeth, that's when I feel brave. When I look back at my life and come to terms with what it was and what it wasn't, and realize that either way, it's ok.
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At a party several years ago, I met a college professor who was doing research for a book on battle metaphors and disease. Since then, I have wondered whether or not she finished it. I don't mind some of the metaphors, but being called "brave" does get tiresome. However, in my opinion, it is preferable to glorifying suffering as was done in the nineteenth century.
Sue (Determined to keep this thread on the Active Topics)
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I just feel, I have to do what I have to do...that isn't particularly brave
or anything..just the facts, ma'am...
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That's right! What on earth is so "brave" or courageous about dealing with cancer? Goodness, I can think of umpteen examples of bravery and this sure isn't one of them! As for the "battle", well, it's really infiltrated our consciousness, hasn't it? Think of the hymn "Onward Christian Soldiers" -- a stirring piece of music but I could never stand the words.....!
On the other hand, I do have the greatest respect for the charitable work of the Salvation Army.
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Bravery - a couple of weeks ago my five year old grandson got in the tube behind a boat and went for a ride. He was safely sitting on the floor of the tube, holding the handles and wearing a life jacket. When he wanted the ride to stop, he made the prearranged "bring me home" signal and was brought in. "You were so brave" we told him. "No, I wasn't brave" he shouted. "I was scared". A while later when he calmed down some more, we had a chat about what it means to be brave - and told him it is doing the thing that makes you afraid. Maybe we are a little bit brave. Or maybe not afraid.
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I think a couple of ladies on BCO use these quotes as the sig lines...
Courage is being afraid but going on anyhow. ~Dan Rather
Courage is being scared to death... and saddling up anyway. ~John Wayne
It used to drive me nuts when people told me how brave I was when I was going through treatment. I kept saying "I'm not brave, I'm just doing what I have to do, I don't have a choice". I still feel that way although my cousin gave me a huge lecture on this, telling me I was, in fact, brave, that I made the choice to live my life and go through the treatment. I told her she was free to see me that way, but I sure didn't feel brave.
Found another quote I like while looking for the above two:
The courage of life is often a less dramatic spectacle than the courage of a final moment; but it is no less a magnificent mixture of triumph and tragedy. A man does what he must - in spite of personal consequences, in spite of obstacles and dangers and pressures - and that is the basis of all morality. ~John F. Kennedy
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I don't feel brave or courageous at all. Like many of you say, what are the choices? I don't know if I'm an atheist or an agnostic or a believer......but I don't believe that a kind God would inflict the kind of suffering that many in the world go through. And I don't believe that so many of us are so bad or sinful that we deserve to be punished.......it would be nice to believe that there is a reason for all that occurs but when I look at historical events, I just don't see it. But I certainly respect those who get strength and comfort from their faith. I guess we all just have our own ways of dealing with illness and adversity.
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The thing that bothers me about the battle metaphor is that it is so violent; I prefer to think that while I may have a few breast cancer cells floating aound my body, but, thanks to surgery and tamoxifen, they won't cause any me problems. A treaty so to speak.
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I guess the battle metaphor doesn't bother me so much since the most recent book I've acquired from the library is Waking the Warrior Goddess. I'm just getting started, and the book looks interesting because it focuses on things within our control that we can do in our everyday lives to protect whatever level of health we currently have, whether it's surviving active treatments or reducing risk of recurrence.
I just got to thinking about my early days of diagnosis. I've never liked doctors. My world view of how to live my life was turned on its head. I didn't go to doctors. I did acquiesce to annual paps and mammograms, but otherwise, I didn't want any kind of doctor within 10 feet of me. I believed that being healthy was mind over matter, that I could simply decide be healthy and that would be that. I have an attitude of gratitude, I seek joy every day and find it.
When I was dx'd, my world turned on its head. I was angry, confused, crushed. Then you have to deal with doctors and learn about the treatments. I was wiley coyote digging in my nails trying not to go over that cliff. I didn't want cancer, and I didn't want to suffer through all those treatments even less. I seriously considered becoming a Christian Scientist. I know this is the atheist thread and all, but I do believe in a higher power, I just don't like churches much. This one I was considering though, just to get away from those poison slash and burn treatments. Prior to that time, I'd be the first one to roll my eyes and mutter gimme a break. And there I was, seriously considering that route. I decided I wasn't brave enough.
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I am in no way offended when others find that the warrior/fighter persona or the battle/war language works for them in coping with this illness. I like to think of myself as having a natural impulse to heal, grow and promote my health/wholeness as possible. I think of this as a strong, powerful yet peaceful force, one that empowers me to learn how to care for myself and to live in the moment as possible in order to do that. I also think that one day that may mean accepting the end of my life as an aspect of "wholeness." (I think that process will likely require me to be brave and courageous, but who knows? Maybe it will just happen so naturally I won't perceive it that way.)
I also try to focus "...on things within our control that we can do in our everyday lives to protect whatever level of health we currently have, whether it's surviving active treatments or reducing risk of recurrence" (thanks, althea). Outside of utilizing treatment to reduce risk of recurrence, I also work on integrating those practices that help me to live well; I also try to notice when I am seeking the illusion of control and to let go of those illusions when I can.
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I don't get the brave thing either- I kinda realized this when I told someone on here they were an inspiration to me- its kinda saying the same thing- what I was really saying was I don't know if I could deal with what you are dealing with. I have had people say that to me- and honestly at the beginning of this I didn't know if I could deal with all this either- but I have. I saw a t shirt that says- don't tell me how brave I am- I don't have a choice!
I saw this on a friend of a friend's facebook page- thought you all might get a kick out of it-
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Oh Oh! The "christians" are after me!
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Bluedahlia -- I read the little brouhaha -- yes, all the discord is caused by the atheists -- let's take it further -- we're responsible for all the world's woes! Let's get the kindling...
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Hey Blue - if we really were the mean-spirited nasties we're made out to be, we'd report that post -- I think a couple of rules were broken.
Aw, but let's be merciful and forgiving.....
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