Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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I'm having a hard time typing, but will try to put a few sentences together. Is it inconceivable that we were planted here by beings from another universe, and we were formed in their image? That their initial teachings were misinterpreted and misrepresented through the ages. That we are all connected to the universe, not just each other, and as the universe is constantly changing, that when we die it is just a form of that change? That we become a part of each other's consciousness at that point. That maybe God is that consciousness. That maybe that's where the "perfect" is. The unbearable lightness of being. I love Daniel Day Lewis. hehehe!
You can tell me I'm nuts....won't bother me.
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Nothing is inconceivable. That is the whole point.
Just because the biggest story is about Adam & the rib girl...doesn't mean that is the truth. Faith is just that, believing in something for which there is no physical proof.
Evolution? Should I say The Theory of Evolution? People can't understand the term theory. This is not an idea, but now scientific fact & it can be proven. BUT still! People will not believe it.
They have an easier time believing that God got Mary pregnant by magic. She gave birth as a virgin...the Son of God died for OUR sins....then pulled a zombie vampire move and started walking around again. Don't even get me started on the Ark!
Seriously, I have no idea what really happened to start that story, but I am pretty sure it had nothing to do with an apple, a fig leaf or a snake.
Most people are afraid of death. That is the bottom line. Most religion offers some type of afterlife. That is where the comfort is found. Period.
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Regardless of all the stories and theories, Jesus was a good role model. He should be honoured for what he tried to teach us. I do honour him.
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I have no doubts there was a man named Jesus. I have no doubts that he tried very hard to teach people to be kind & love each other. How do you think he would feel about the religious hate or intolerance? Or the wars that are carried out in his name? Is that really what Jesus would do?
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I agree with you, Dawnn, re the fear of death. I truly hope I can approach death with more curiosity than fear. Although that's probably asking a lot! I'm hoping that the inquisitive habits of a lifetime of geekhood will pull me through.
--CindyMN
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He wouldn't like it. It goes against everything he stands for.
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"I am not afraid of death, I just don't want to be there when it happens." - Woody Allen
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I fear death. I fear the pain my children will feel. My father died 3 years ago & the pain is still raw.
I fear dying young & leaving my young children with-out me. I remember being about 20, laying in bed with my first love....That song, "Dust in the Wind" came on & I cried, I told him I was afraid, because it is true, we are all just dust in the wind....
This boy, said to me;
"You are sad & you feel that way now, Dawn. That is because you are young and have so much to do. When you are an old woman & you have lived your life, you have raised your children and seen grandchildren born, you will be satisfied with life, you will be tired. You won't have the fear you have now."
That brought me comfort then. Now, being faced with maybe not dying an old woman with 30 cats, I wonder. I question, I cry.
Will I grasp at religion to find comfort, like I have seen many dying people do. My FIL was a mean old bastard & on his death bed became born again....is that how it works? This vengeful God who sends you to hell for drinking or lying or cheating, forgives all of your sins and accepts you at the last moment?
I don't think so & I also think that I can love people & treat people kind & fairly with out threats from any God.
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Hi Dawn you are right I have a bumper sticker that says "Loving kindness is my religion." so we just be nice and play well with others........Hope you are adjusting to the move.
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Lovegolf!!
Wow! I am so happy to "see" you
I see you post in a few of the other threads around the boards, But since I only went to college once & then married a man...I feel uncomfortable coming in & reading your business, even to just say "Hi!".
I am moving again, probably by December.
On a happy note, seeing you caused big smiles. You are the kindest woman, I've never had the pleasure of meeting. Hope all is well in Savannah.
Sorry for the off topic ladies. Lovegolf was the first person I ever spoke to about my Dx.
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Lovegolf!!
Wow! I am so happy to "see" you
I see you post in a few of the other threads around the boards, But since I only went to college once & then married a man...I feel uncomfortable coming in & reading your business, even to just say "Hi!".
I am moving again, probably by December.
On a happy note, seeing you caused big smiles. You are the kindest woman, I've never had the pleasure of meeting. Hope all is well in Savannah.
Sorry
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Oh, a great big thick chocolate chip cookie with great big hunks of dark chocolate -- mmmm I'm drooling 'cause it's been so long since I've had one (cholesterol probs). Move over on the crazy bench!
And who are we to think we're the only creatures in this (or any other) universe? No doubt we're at the very bottom of the evolutionary scale -- we still don't know how to play well with others......
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Some tiramisu would suit the crazy in me.
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me too blue
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<--- taking a seat on the crazy bench and passing around a plate of peanut butter macadamia nut cookies...
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Sige, stop that right now! You've got me drooling again
. And last night I dreamed about tira misu..... 0 -
You will note the cookies are larger than the crazy bench...as it should be.
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What a great thread! I wish I would have found this a long time ago.
Organized religion scares me more than breast cancer ever did/does. Look at all the wars in the name of religion. Not to mention that the bible IMO seems to be just stories written by men that wanted to control everything through fear.. I do believe Jesus lived and so did Buddha. They were obiviously way ahead of their time.
My Mom, who I love more than anything, is religious and I know it hurts her to know I don't believe. I am sorry I can't change that.
I told my husband that should I die there better be no mention of religion at any service for me. I don't fear dieing for myself, but I hate to think of leaving my son that is mentally disabled. But, I think he would handle my passing better than anybody. He would miss me I know but sometimes the simplest understanding and knowing is the best. He is an old soul.
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Dear thedudess:
I do have a faith base, and I do believe that the love and prayers of family and friends has had an impact on my treatment. But I also know that my best friend who is agnostic is the one who went through all but one chemo with me and always answered my calls and held me at the times that were most difficult. She would tell me that she was sending me good karma. Whatever. Her good karma was as strong and spriritual and loving as any of the prayers. To me it is the strength that is gained from knowing you are not alone. You are loved and people are putting their energy into loving you. Sometimes prayers or sending you good karma are all they can do as we go through this mess. It is easy to be taken in or taken aback by an organized religious group. They try to make the intangible tangible, and often their efforts are difficult to understand, accept, or even tolerate. It is not easy to believe in what you cannot see but only feel. I feel the love. It's simple. I know that it is real, and to me that is what faith and God is all about. If I go to a service with like-minded people, I find comfort. If I went to a service with others, I would feel like an alien. Whatever your faith choice or non-choice, believe in the love. I think it's mighty powerful stuff.
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I was listening to an interview the other day, and the woman was talking about her relationship with "God" in a way that was interesting so I listened some more. She was asked eventually about how she defined "God" and she remarked, in essence, "love"--no supreme, omnipotent being or anything like that--just "love." I am curious about how people talk about "God," the language that we use to do so. I personally would not call my ideas about love and connection and nature and a life force that is greater than I can imagine "God," but I find it intriguing that some people do. I will stay hopeful that others will be as respectful about my "loose ideas" about spirituality as I am about those spiritual or religious belief systems that do not engender harmful actions toward others.
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Meg .. great articles. I want to re-read them. The first one very closely identified my feelings on the "god" concept.
Thanks,
Bren
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Hey, scoot over on the crazy bench. Talking about the possibiity that we are just a petri dish experiment of a much more advanced culture.... what do you think of the Naszca lines, and crop circles?
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I used to have a very active, wonderful imagination. I loved fairy tales, greek mythology, even the wonder that maybe my toys came to life while I was sleeping. I attended parochial schools and lived 2 years in a Catholic orphanage. I hung onto something I think was a wonder and faith until somewhere in high school.......little by little, life and living began to open my eyes. Nuns were leaving the fold. Priests were being run off because they were conflicted about birth control pills. The priest that taught sex ed kept extolling the rhythm method. My mother kept having babies she couldn't provide for either emotionally or financially. That ridiculous cliche' "God will provide" kept rolling off my mothers tongue.
I remember there was a discussion in class one day about death and did we fear it or welcome the trip to heaven. I must have been in one of those moods because I said something to the effect of "what am I supposed to be afraid of, when I'm dead I won't know it or feel anything, I'll just be dead". Talk about shock on teachers' face.
I'm on this thread now because a sister has come back into my life owing to my need to let her know about my diagnosis so that she would have the information. She ran away long ago to follow a rogue church to Roswell, NM in search of the rapture. She has bounced around the country but now lives on the financial edge. So she now has started trying to save my soul with her prayer ramblings. This morning she needed to share her personal experience that when she was operated on last year she had no insurance. The hospital wanted a 18k, she worked with the financial folks.....and prayed.....and her prayers were answered. The hospital reduced her bill. Whoopee. Didn't occur to her that prayer didn't have much to do with it and now the rest of us taxpayers will pick up the slack. I suppose I'm annoyed because at my urging years ago she applied to the phone company where I worked. The first steady job with benefits she ever had. 8 years into it is when she quit her job and ran off to the rapture in NM. God has been providing ever since......or should I say we have.
"God" is her comfort and I don't begrudge her that. Anyone who has been through serious dysfunction in their life has to find what works.
For me, problem solving, and a steady logical approach to providing for myself is my comfort. I have a good measure of confidence in myself. My husband is the same way. So we have our comfort and she has hers, but I had to write back and tell her to stop waving her faith in my face.
She'll probably pray harder for me now.
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Liane, speaking of "the rapture": I was reading the other day about a company in the U.S. that will take care of your pet after you've gone up to heaven in the rapture. Of course you have to pay in advance......
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And I suppose all the employees of this company would have to be "unsaved".
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One of my neighbors died when I was a little girl & she had her dog & cat put to sleep & buried with her. I was devastated. I found it selfish & cruel.
Of course now that I have a dog from a violent background, who would just about kill anyone but me & my family, I see it differently.
The one that gets me is people cutting off their heads & freezing them because they can't afford the whole body?? What do they think they are going to sew it/attach it to? another dead person with no head? But the body still works? If they had that technology would anyone die? Or are they growing new bodies with no heads to give to these people? Robot bodies?
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Liane..I always wonder what is lacking in somebody's life when they have to go out and try to save other people....must be a big hole they are trying to fill..
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Regarding the link that Meg posted to the WSJ article: I also enjoy reading Karen Armstrong. She is a fellow of the Jesus Seminar, which is pretty much viewed as anathema by fundamental/evangelical Christian churches.
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SoCalLisa.....I agree. Big holes.
Anyway I think your "heaven" or "hell" is right here on earth in the here and now. You can be a moral and compassionate person with integrity with or without organized religion. We are the navigators here. Sadly few escape events of pain and tragedy but then we must also seek and grab the joy out there as well.
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Finally...........found crazies of like mind. hehe!
Take the pyramids for instance. Today's technology cannot reproduce them. Some theorize their placement have strategic navigational purposes.
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