Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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It's the unchristian thing to do!
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The funny thing is that people think you are "brave" only if you go through the standard treatment. The only time I actually felt I had to be brave was when I made up my own mind about the treatment I wanted, even though it was against mainstream opinion.
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Newsflash -- The Secular Humanism Society is a non-prophet organization
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good one linda
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Calypso,
I think we all have to be "brave" enough to live with all of the choices we are forced to make.
Uni/Bi?
Chemo/no chemo?
Drugs/no drugs?
I see bravery in you if you went against the norm & against what the doctors were all telling you to do.
I believe we all have a destiny and that being in control of how we get there, is what being human is.
Dawn
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Linda,
It's been a long day. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.
Sue
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To me, bravery is a choice...we have no choice but to forge ahead when we have breast cancer...this is not bravery...it's survival
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A friend told me about this link:
http://.primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/19782
It's about a Baptist pastor in Tempe Arizona who is openly praying for the death of President Obama -- but oh no, not by assassination, because that would make him a martyr. This pastor's preferred means of death for the President is brain cancer, a la Teddy Kennedy.
I just can't tell you how horrified I am about this....
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that is just sick linda..what kind of a man is that
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I really feel for his safety. I can't believe what I just read. "Man of the cloth"? Sheeple!
I don't have a problem with God......my problem is with the violence of religion.
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A truly religious person (any religion) would never pray for something so horrific. Throughout history, there have been vile people using the name of religion/God to do terrible things to others.
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Wow, what a marathon of reading! I just finished reading the posts going all the way back to the start. I wish I had come across the topic sooner. I am an atheist who stopped posting almost as soon as I started on these boards because of the overly Christian commentary from several posters on the "Starting Chemo in March 2009" group. I had come to see BCO as a vehicle for Christians. I am very happy to see that I was wrong to some degree.
I loved the youtube of Rowan Atkinson's welcome to Hell and I appreciate the suggestions for some very interesting book titles. Please keep up the discussion. You have made my day.
Linda
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I just finished reading Eve Ensler's Insecure at Last. What a truly gifted writer.
I am also reading Sacred Contracts by Caroline Myss. On this thread, I'm sure it's not for everyone. It's very spiritual in nature, but without the dogma. What really makes sense to me is her explanation that people create stories in the form of myths to explain that which is unexplainable, unknowable, indescribable. I tend to like authors who obviously believe in a higher power but are not wrapped up in any particular doctrine.
It's the doctrine and the dogma that really drive me batty. To my mind, that's how we end up with creepy people like the baptist minister praying Obama gets a brain tumor. What the heck kind of example and message is that?? It's that kind of behavior that keeps me away from ALL the churches. Creepy creepy creepy. And hypocritical. The most unchristian behavior seems to come from pillars of the church, or their zealous followers who browbeat others for different beliefs.
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Konakat, I missed the "brouhaha" about all thi discord caused by atheists. Was that on this board? I've been busy being a cancer patient lately, and haven't sprent much time on the boards.
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Madalyn summarized the brouhaha correctly. Maybe I should have said rant. They always shock me -- that out of the blue (no pun intended) that atheism is brought up when it has nothing to do with the subject! Imagine if someone replaced "atheist" with a "christian" or other religion!
I just don't know where such hatred comes from -- re. the baptist minister. I wonder how many more there are that we don't hear about?
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Hi, Ivorymom.
I have missed your witty & funny posts. Writing in a journal can help you express feelings. Sometimes when I am just overwhelmed I will just start writing. Start with something as simple as;
I need to get up and wash the dishes...then I need to walk the dog, walking that dog is hard on my arm since my Mx, I love her, she is just a pain in the butt now, but she does make me feel safe, I should have done dishes last night, I have just been sooooo tired and I was falling asleep and I never sleep anymore....
NOW...that was just my personal train of thought at this moment, but you can start writing by just putting one thought down and following with a train of thought, if you over think it, it may be too hard to start.
I hope that makes some sense.
Big hugs & love to you, I miss your old avatar! You are a pretty cartoon, but you are far more beautiful in real life.
Dawn
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Hi, Ivorymom--I don't know if there are "shoulds" for journal writing. Some will say write whatever comes to mind, just let your thoughts/feelings/experiences flow, see where they "take" you; typically people are reminded not to worry about spelling, grammar, creating an "essay," that sort of thing, and to just write without judging oneself about the content or the process. Some people find that rereading entries helps to put concerns or issues in perspective, also helps one to see growth or places of being stuck over time.
I also have seen a journal idea for women with breast cancer suggesting that you "check in"--daily or regularly-- with your body (what's going on/good/hurtful/etc), with thoughts (am I thinking too much about cancer, or other particular concerns? am I overthinking?), with feelings, with yourself in relation to others (family, community, etc), and with yourself in the sense of connection to self and also connection to that which gives your life meaning. Of course, you may not be looking for this type of guidance, but it may spark some ideas for you.
I have read research here and there that notes that people who journal often build insight over time and also cope better with various stressors (as well as anxiety, depression, etc), so I can see why it would be suggested to you. I hope that your experience of extreme personal turmoil will abate or resolve over time; perhaps you will discover (or rediscover) some useful aspects of yourself from the turmoil and the process of journaling that will help you to feel more grounded in the future.
I hope you will find peace or whatever you need to get through this time in your life!
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You might be interested in Julia Cameron's The Artist's Way. She'll get you started on morning pages, which are three pages first thing in the morning. It's stream of consciousness, sweep out the cobwebs sort of journalling. Some people keep multiple journals, while I often feel like I'm doing well just to get some morning pages done. I'm not sure I do morning pages the way Cameron intends, but I'm still practicing much of what she suggests in The Artist's Way, and I read it years ago. ...now that I've suggested it, I'm realizing that it's like many of the other books I like -- Cameron speaks often of spiritual things, but without dogma or doctrine. So maybe you wouldn't be interested. Just speaking for myself and sharing the resource that got me journalling and sticking with it -- although my morning pages are intermittent anymore and often just one page.
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Here's a couple of chuckles for you.
A little girl was talking to her teacher about whales.
The teacher said it was physically impossible for a whale to swallow a human because even though it was a very large mammal its throat was very small.
The little girl stated that Jonah was swallowed by a whale.
Irritated, the teacher reiterated that a whale could not swallow a human; it was physically impossible.
The little girl said, "When I get to heaven I will ask Jonah".
The teacher asked, "What if Jonah went to hell?"
The little girl replied, "Then you ask him ".
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A Kindergarten teacher was observing her classroom of children while they were drawing. She would occasionally walk around to see each child's work.
As she got to one little girl who was working diligently, she asked what the drawing was.
The girl replied, "I'm drawing God."
The teacher paused and said, "But no one knows what God looks like."
Without missing a beat, or looking up from her drawing, the girl replied, "They will in a minute."
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A Sunday school teacher was discussing the Ten Commandments with her five and six year olds.
After explaining the commandment to "honor" thy Father and thy Mother, she asked, "Is there a commandment that teaches us how to treat our brothers and sisters?"
Without missing a beat one little boy (the oldest of a family) answered, "Thou shall not kill.
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"The children were lined up in the cafeteria of a Catholic elementary school for lunch. At the head of the table was a large pile of apples. The nun made a note, and posted on the apple tray:
"Take only ONE. God is watching."
Moving further along the lunch line, at the other end of the table was a large pile of chocolate chip cookies.
A child had written a note, "Take all you want. God is watching the apples.
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Blue, those were really cute. I could actually hear the kids saying those things in my head, in that matter-of-fact tone that young children have. <grin>
Meg, I often find that journaling helps me stop overthinking stuff. It's like the worry or upset feelings just spin in circles in my head. If I can get them down on paper, then I seem able to stop chewing it over and over in my head. Sometimes I have to sternly remind myself: "Now, we've gone over all this before, you know, and it's down on paper so chill out!" LOL
--CindyMN
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Cute jokes, Blue.
Meg, I used to journal lots and it's true--there's no rules. I heard once that the reason that solutions seem to magically appear when journaling is that we can speak about 200 words per minute, listen to XXX words per min, but we can only write about 28 words per min. Therefore, we slow down and spend more time on the thought or problem. Gives our very wise subconscious to come out.
Back when I journaled on a regular basis, I went to a marketing session where they invited journal writers. They were testing the market for a nicely bound journal. Interesting things came out of our discussions. NONE of us liked to 'write' in the general sense of the term, but we loved journaling. Also, we ALL wrote in cheapo spiral notebooks. Not one of us had those pretty journals they sell in stores--and for which they were testing the market to sell. Fascinating.
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Interesting info on the journaling, I love the idea of it and keep trying but never stay with it. Maybe I'm trying too hard, guess I'll go get a spiral notebook.
I am curious what your thoughts are and hope this is ok for this thread...Quick question (not a quick answer I suspect) what is the difference between atheist and agnostic ? What if one believes in a higher power, spirit, the universe/mother earth but not in the God/Jesus/Church thing?
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EWB~
People will say an agnostic can't commit & make up their minds, that is not how I view it or understand it. I see it as this.
Atheist~We live, we die. The end. No spirits, no souls, no after life. Dead like a bug.
Agnostic~Primarily think the whole God, Jesus, magic boat & two by two is a fairy tale...Understanding of the scientific side of things ie;evolution ect. BUT....may not believe that there is no post energy after life.
I personally have seen a ghost. As has my oldest daughter, so I KNOW there is something. I just do not believe the world is 3000 years old or that there is a magic man in the sky.
Wiki says;
Agnosticism is the philosophical view that the truth value of certain claims - particularly metaphysical claims regarding theology, afterlife or the existence of deities, spiritual beings, or even ultimate reality - is unknown or, depending on the form of agnosticism, inherently impossible to prove or disprove and hence unknowable. [1] It is not a religious declaration in itself and the terms are not mutually exclusive. [2]
"Atheism can be either the rejection of theism,[1] or the position that deities do not exist.[2] In the broadest sense, it is the absence of belief in the existence of deities.[3]The term atheism originated from the Greek ἄθεος (atheos), meaning "ungodly" or "deserted by the gods," which was derogatorily applied to anyone thought to believe in false gods, no gods, or doctrines that stood in conflict with established religions. With the spread of free thought, skeptical inquiry, and subsequent increase in criticism of religion, application of the term narrowed in scope."THis is me talking AGAIN down there, don't know why it went all small, sorry
Each person here has their own views and beliefs. Here we have Wiccans & Pagans & atheists and agnostics...we have the curious & the not so sures. Anyone who assumes that their views are the the only correct or acceptable answer to these questions...well...let's just say their arrogance is writing checks no-one can actually cash.Point? No-one here will judge what you believe and none of us would try to force our personal beliefs on you.Dawn 0 -
Thank you for the definitions
I am somewhere between. I believe that when I die I am dead like a bug. However I think that there is a god that created the world. I just dont believe that the god considers us to be more than an interesting species.
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Thanks for the info Madalyn & Dawn! I have struggled a long time w/ organized church and the traditions/rituals/interpretations things esp the ones that are sooo strict & judging --- ack. One size fits all really doesn't work and so many are dying/maiming because of it. hmmm more things for me to ponder.
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EWB, for those of us on this thread who have been raised with religion, I think it's probably been a long, slow and thoughtful process to come to our own conclusions. While I grew up in a very liberal, forward-thinking protestant faith, I still struggled with the notion that my "belief" was the right and only one, and those who were not Christian obviously had it wrong. Just could not reconcile myself to this and thus began a study of the belief systems of others, and why human beings needed those belief systems and how and why they developed. That study just strengthened my resolve to start thinking for myself (which, of course, all religions do not encourage!).
I too am delighted to have found this thread and to participate in it. Thank you all!
Linda
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I also like the word "skeptic," although it tends to have a negative connotation. I agree that the path to non-belief it is a long process for those of us raised with religion. I think I finally came to the conclusion that I personally require pretty solid proof before I believe anything else in my life. And that I didn't see the sense in applying a different standard of "proof" to religious matters.
One friend of mine became very angry when I "came out" to her about my atheism and demanded that I prove that God doesn't exist. I countered that I thought it was very difficult, if not impossible, to prove a negative and asked her to try proving the non-existence of leprechauns and unicorns.
We are still friends, despite this.
--CindyMN
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I use logic in my beliefs. In nature (the universe) there is a balance. For there to be the imperfect, the perfect must exist. You can take it from there. Remember, our religious teachings have been passed along by imperfect beings, just like us. We must not be stubborn or limited in our thinking.
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Perfect and imperfect....Blue, I agree that there must be the "ideal" or perfect, for the imperfect to exist. The major religions insist that the perfect is a "god" seeming to resemble humans (as opposed to man being made in God's image!). But ..... there may be, in someone's imagination, the perfect "tree", however I challenge you to find such a thing. And, what I may regard as perfect, you may think of its having tiny imperfections, thus making it imperfect in your eyes. Is this why I had such a problem with "my god is the right god, ergo yours is not"?
Now who was it who said "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"?
p.s. I haven't had my morning coffee yet -- did what I just write make any sense????!
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Coffee or not, I get what you are saying, Lindasa! And I agree with you, Madalyn, for most people, faith isn't a conscious choice, but just what they were raised with. With everyone claiming that the "one true" faith just happens to be the one that they and generations of their family and/or their country believe it......well it just seems unlikely to me that the "one true" exists at all. I spent a big part of my life (50 already!) unlearning Christianity, as I was a missionary kid. It started when I was little and began to feel that it was cruel and unfair that my playmates were bound for hell while I was "saved". And I also thought some of the bible stories were "icky" Madalyn! Like Egyptian babies being killed, etc. Well, anyway, my Dad (the missionary) recently passed away, so either he is "dead like a bug", or else he now has all the answers. If the latter, I sure wish he would communicate some of them to me.
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