Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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I guess first I want to start off by saying that I've never come out and said "I'm an Atheist," but I was not brought up in a religious home, we did not attend church, I do not attend church now, and I don't associate myself with any particular religion. I can imagine that it has to be tough in your situation because I KNOW that when I was first diagnosed, everyone around me said they were praying for me. I appreciated it -- really, because if that's something (their religion) that they believe strongly in, then it does no harm for them to "pray" for me. It lets me know that they care and it makes them feel more at peace, I'm sure. However, during that time, I did have many friends that simply said, "You are in my thoughts," "You've been on my mind all day," "We'll be thinking good thoughts for you today." None of those phrases are associated with God or Christianity, but they meant just as much to me -- those people love me, and that's there way of letting me know that they do.
Now, on to leaning on your faith during your treatment and recovery: I think it all goes back to people praying for you versus the people that are simply "thinking good thoughts" or "sending good thoughts your way." I think they both achieve the same goal: to make you feel loved and to make them feel more at peace because they've let you KNOW that they love you.
You can do that too. I'll be honest. I don't pray every night that my chemo is going to be effective, or that I don't have any mets. I do however, tell myself that I will do everything that I can, in the way of medical treatments and positive thinking, to make my recovery the best that it can be. If I feel like shit one day, I don't pray that I'll feel great the next, I simply tell myself, "Yeah, you feel like shit, and you might tomorrow, but you know, it's killing the cancer." It's positive thinking. It's having FAITH in yourself.
I would feel hypoctrical telling someone, "You're in my prayers," when I don't attend church or even pray. So I tell them, "Today I'll be thnking about you frequently and sending good vibes your way."
I say this to you now, because I know that it's hard to gracefully accept the prayers from others, or allow others to place you on local prayer lists. Sometimes that is more for them -- to make them feel more at peace, and not so much for YOU.
I'm just rambling on here, and I wasn't even sure what you were asking, other than if any of us were Atheist. I am saying, that no matter your creed, we're all in the same boat, and I'm here for you -- sending good thoughts your way!
~Lisa
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Lisa, thank you for your post! This is a thread for those of us who don't believe in a higher being, or who aren't sure, or who put our "faith" in things other than God. Just as you've said that you put your faith in yourself to see you through tough times, that's what alot of us here do as well.
Personally, I've just never seen the point of praying for good things to happen -- either to me or to others. My life is what I make it, not what a "God" willynilly chooses for me. Sending good thoughts someone's way may not be effective either, but as you say, it lets others know that we care about them.
This thread is also a haven for us because we have to deal with many people who think we are immoral because we don't believe the way they do. I hesitated several months before joining this thread, because I "knew" there would be others who would think less of me for admitting my lack of faith in their God. Well, too bad! I'm out and I'm glad, and delighted to find others here who think along the same lines as I. Welcome!
Linda
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Lisa, I also really appreciated your thoughtful post. The woman who started this thread originally ("thedudess" - what a great screenname) hasn't posted here in some time, but I feel like I owe her a debt of gratitude for bringing others together through her reaching out. (Does that make sense?)
OK, the weather report from southeast Michigan: the snow missed us, but oh, that wind! Driving home from work this afternoon, I was hit by a gust, and thought for just a moment that my car had been sideswiped by someone. That's how intense it was.
So, when I got home, what did I do but -- go out for a run. Because I'm nuts. It actually was invigorating, though. And now I'm wishing that I hadn't blown my weekly wine allotment over the weekend, because a nice glass of red wine would go down really well with the lentil soup that's simmering.
(Speaking of running, I'm thinking of doing a Canadian running tour in 2010. I've always wanted to do the "Around the Bay 30K" in Hamilton; maybe this'll finally be the year. Then there's the half marathon in Ottawa at the end of May, and maybe another half in Toronto in the fall.)
Linda
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Hi, I'm just popping into this thread because I liked what one of you was saying on another topic and started following your other posts.
Anyway, haven't read through all pages and maybe this has been mentioned before...but there was a comedian with cancer, I can't remember his name, and he made me chuckle. He said that people were always coming up to him and telling him that they were praying for him and praying for a cure. But he'd noticed that nobody ever tells the man with one arm that they're praying for him to grow a new arm. It's like they love Jesus, but they realize there's a limit to what he can do! And apparently they think that arm-growing is out of his reach but curing cancer would be a cinch.0 -
SharaD, welcome. Love your anecdote - one of those things that's funny because it's all too true.
This thread is a great place to hang out.
Linda
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An old friend told me of this program on Showtime. I highly recommend it if you can watch it.
http://www.sho.com/site/schedules/product.do?episodeid=135394&seriesid=0&seasonid=0
It's a two hours plus monologue of a lapsed Catholic's spiritual travels as she lets go of God and moves toward coming out as an atheist. Julia Sweeney, she's a comedienne, but I didn't know of her. Through this show, I found I agreed with just about everything she said.
The name of the show is "Letting Go of God." A must-see.
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Bummer - I don't get Showtime. I've heard parts of another of her monologues, though: "God Said Ha!" It's about cancer (and family relationships and a whole lot of other things); she's a cancer survivor (I'm not sure what type) and her brother died of lymphoma. It's hysterically funny and deeply sad at the same time.
I had no idea she was an outspoken atheist.
Linda
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Analemma, I saw an early version of 'Letting go of God' on YouTube- I loved it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sfTOcHONow&feature=PlayList&p=BDA667332AE3AC28&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=42
Here's an audio version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qixXRkCNrtE
I liked Bill Maher's 'Religulous' too- funny stuff about a not-so funny subject.
One day I'll figure out how to post a link...
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This article was in today's NYT - it was pretty shocking. The forces of intolerance are challenging the election of a city councilman because he doesn't believe in god. Turns out the North Carolina constitution retains an (unenforceable!) provision disqualifying individuals "who shall deny the being of Almighty God" from holding public office.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/13/us/13northcarolina.html?ref=us
I love the feisty attitude of the councilman in question.
(And Sparrow, I know what you mean about posting links. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't! )
Linda
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Linda ... geez .. we're talking about the Carolina's. I'm a transplant to southern VA, via NC, born and raised in San Diego. People in the south still think California is the "land of fruits and nuts."
I saw the Julia Sweeney show the other day. I missed the first 1/2 hour of a 2 1/2 hour show. "Letting go of God." It was pretty powerful. Since I missed the first part, I don't know if she said her quest into atheism began about the time of her brother's death. It seems it may have.
The show was very timely for me. I think people born into non-religious families have a little easier time of accepting there is no god. Julia's journey out of Catholicism took many years and lots of research, travel and soul-searching. One thing she said that really stuck with me is that our mind is not separate from our brain. They are one in the same.
I was raised Lutheran (Missouri synod .. a half-step away from Catholic). Even attended Lutheran schools. After I went through two years of instruction (7th and 8th grade), so I could take communion and be a member, I left the church and never went back. Around the age of 16, I got involved in a charismatic cult, lived on a commune in two different states, etc. I became very suspicious after spending some with the Apostle in Hawaii, and discovering that he led a very RICH life. arghh. I was eventually was excommunicated from that cult!
I then belonged to a group where god is the focus of the 12-steps. I was okay with that, except the part about turning our life and will over to god. I went along with it, cause, well, I liked my friends. But this doubt has plagued me since my mid 20's.
I didn't raise my son in a church ... he's a man of science (physics). He and his wife seem very comfortable with this. Not worried about my baby grands either. They're happy, loved and healthy.
Like Julia, this process has been a long one for me. Frankly, I grieve the loss of god. But, I can't go back. Who do I say my gratefuls to at night when I go to bed? Where do we find comfort in the dark hours? For me, this is profoundly sad.
love,
Bren
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Bren, I wonder if it has to be all or none. Can the word "god" be for any thing, force, person, spirit, the universe that is bigger than any one person. Can it be not about a religion or a church or set of rules that someone else came up with many many years ago to explain the unknown... I don't know, I have struggled with this for a long time and still don't know what right for me. I wonder if the answer is some mix of everything?0
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EWB .. I don't know. I can't get past the "God's will" thing. If the Christian god, or any other religious god for that matter, is so frightening (to me), I don't want any of that any more. Certainly not giving up my "will."
I think you may be onto something. Perhaps it lies in having a spirit of love and kindness, and trusting and getting comfort from that. And that love is what sees us through.
I liked what Sweeney said about how our DNA is connected to every particle on earth. I find comfort in that too.
hugs,
Bren
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Bren -- I think easing one's way out of religion has a lot to do with letting go of the rituals attached to it. They ARE habit-forming (just as they are intended to be). I didn't have difficulty suspending my belief in God in my late teens, but I did have some problems letting go of the nightly prayers, the church every Sunday etc. They had been so much a part of my life -- even more so as I was a church organist and choir director. On the other hand, my DH (whose father was a Protestant minister!) had no problem letting go. Perhaps it had a great deal to do with seeing his father in the pulpit every Sunday, and then seeing him every day at home -- apparently those two visions didn't mesh very well
.EWB -- we had an earlier poster -- Lisa -- who said that her faith actually centered in her, rather than in something intangible. Makes sense to me.
Now I must find a way of channelling Julia Sweeney (hey, via TV or online, guys!) Sounds like she and I have something in common!
Hugs to all, Linda
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So nice to see a thoughtful discussion going on these days...
NC--my home state--where the first question I was asked growing up (after "what's your name") was "where do you go to church?" My My Unitarian mom and lapsed Methodist dad let me go to whatever church I wanted, whenever I wanted. Mostly the neighborhood Baptist Church, to sing in the choir. )They let little heathen like me in, in hopes of saving me. really.) At age 10 I could no more follow the masses of my friends up to the altar to be "saved" than I could go to the moon. Yet I continued to follow my friends to their churches and church camps for the social aspect, as well as to see if I could feel what I thought they were feeling. And the joke was--they weren't thinking or feeling anything at that age. They were doing what the parents told them to do.
So, I continue to read about world religions and religious thinkers. Not to be convinced there is (or isn't a god) but to see how people come to believe what they do, and where I find my place in the universe.
What is "the power of the universe" for me, is "God" to someone else. I don't deny them their right to call it what they want, and I surely get ticked when they try to argue with me about my own choice.
Anne
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Anne:
Great point. I love this forum. I get more laughs and more inspiration from the "heathens" than anywhere else. It's okay though, because I'm a heathen too!
~Lisa0 -
Well, I'm pretty close to Judaism, but I'm taking only traditions (reasonable ones) from there, not dogmas and rituals. After all, being Jewish doesn't mean being religious.
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I was born and bred in the Carolinas, South and North. The big piece of dogma that sticks is the belief in God as a sentient being, who is personally involved in our tiny decisions, and whose opinion we can change according to the strength of our prayers. Even as a small child I had a problem with this, with the conflict between the notion that God has a plan that is so far beyond our ability to understand, and the idea that God would listen and pay attention to my prayers. It has to be one or the other, right?
I believe in randomness in the universe, and I think that this is where a lot of people have trouble leaving a god figure out of the equation. If you are not comfortable with the idea of randomness, then there has to be a man with a plan, right? I don't think there is, and I am ok with thinking that we are all part of a cosmic soup that comes together in clumps for a while, then dissipates to form other clumps. I know that some folks think I'm crazy, but it works for me.
As far as feeling thankful, I don't believe there needs to be an object of our gratitude. I can feel thankful and blessed, without feeling thankful TO someone or blessed BY someone. As I can feel full of love without it being directed toward someone, just to the universe.
Brenda
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A Jewish leprechaun - I love it!
((Bren)): it sounds as though my own background is similar to your son's. My dad was an engineer/computer scientist, and a generally hyper-rational guy, and that sort of shaped our household. Religion was never part of my upbringing; sometimes I feel as though I was born without the same "spiritual bone" that other people have.
A friend of mine who *does* consider herself a deeply spiritual person (though not in the tradition in which she was raised - she converted from Catholicism to Judaism) once described her conception of god to me. God, for her, is in the connection that binds human beings together.
I like that image - and it sounds very similar to what other posters here have described. But I also see how someone could long for a more personal god (which is what I heard in Bren's words). "Someone to say your gratefuls to" . . . what a great turn of phrase. It really captures that longing.
Linda
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Hi to all--I've been reading often but not posting here--typically trying to conserve energy. I had a nice laugh with the anecdote about curing cancer being a cinch in comparison to growing an arm. I remember hearing a poor man being condemned for his "lack of faith in God" when he did not "claim his healing" by "allowing" a new leg to grow after an amputation. I was told after cancer diagnosis #2 that I would be healed IF I believed in God strongly enough, otherwise, well you get the picture. The audacity of that kind of judgment is crazy-making!
I also saw Julia Sweeney's one woman show years ago, but I did not know of her latest work; maybe I can find it on Netflix.
I grew up in the deep south and had an interesting variety of experiences with religion before realizing that I had the right and the duty to myself to decide about my own belief system. I am one who tends to "believe" in a life force that connects us all and in finding meaning in ways that are uniquely personal and also "universal." That force allows me to feel hopeful about who I am (becoming) and who others are (becoming); I don't feel lost or adrift because there is no "supreme being" watching over me.
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listening, or rather reading, here makes me think how much religion and church and god have been intertwined. It seems like a shame that these can and have been taken to an extreme. Such good often comes from the community of a church (social services and outreach) and yet at the same time "the church" with whoever is interpreting its beliefs and rituals, guiding the direction of the people, can really go so overboard with ____ I am not sure of the words.
I guess I was fortunate to grow up in a family and an area where what we did and said was more important than "being a holier than thou sunday christen" the people who went to services every Sunday, spoke the words but were most unpleasant and uncaring, espcially if you did not follow their beliefs. So much for brotherly love, the golden rule, just being nice to one another.
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Hello everyone, been awhile since I have posted and I loved going over the posts since last time I was in here. I just love how different views can be expressed even though there is a basic principal that we all agree upon here. I like some of the ideas and some of my views are very similar.
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Hey Madalyn, good to see you again well in a manner of speaking. I'm doing good just had my first chemo a little over two weeks ago. Hair is now falling out by the handful so tomorrow its time for the razor getting tired if taking wads of hair from the shower and while getting ready its very disturbing.
This is also my favorite thread lots of great thinkers here I love it!
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Re: curing a missing limb ... there's a website forum called whywontgodhealamputees.com which discusses this and many other issues. It's mostly atheists on the site, but some wild discussions happen when fundamentalists come on to argue the premise.
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Is anyone else counting down the days until the sun starts heading back north?
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Me.
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Et moi aussi! Just 4 more sleeps....
leprechaun, I love the quote on your signature line
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Oh dear, our cats still don't know how to count!
I'd love to see a photo of the Winter Solstice display -- maybe it will catch on in other towns.
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And our cat doesn't care... 0
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Hey, I'd just be happy if the nativity scenes had characters that actually looked that they were from the middle east. I always wonder about the blondes and light brown hair...
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