Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Dawnbelle--great pics--can't believe I managed to see them before they were condemned. You said the one that compared various religious beliefs was an old one, but hadn't seen it before and laughed out loud. Thanks for the chuckles--needed them tonight.
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So glad this thread is here. I had to start at the beginning and read all of the posts, stayed up way later than I should have last night but finally read them all. This looks like a great spot for unconditional support, good reading recommendations and wonderful cat, dog, and chicken
stories, they are all great.0 -
Well, I'm home from the hospital. Had Mastectomy #2 which is already giving me peace of mind and expanders put in. The new girls look a bit more smooshed than perky, but I'll give them awhile. I'm dealing with the pain quite nicely with all my meds. I had to make a spreadsheet of them all to keep track.
The surgeon said pathology came back clean, which is what they expected, but one never knows, huh? For some reason the PS took out 8 lymph nodes clustered together. Wonder why the PS and not the surgeon. I didn't have the dye torture thank goodness.
The PS sent me FLOWERS the day I came home. Is that cool, or what? Pain pills are pulling me back to la-la land, so I guess I'll return to bed. Thanks so much for thinking of me! I just LOVE this board!
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Off subject but.... I just asked my oncologist about the H1N1 flu shot. His answer: A solid tumor like bc doesn't put us at higher risk although treatment certainly would because the immune system is compromised. Cancers like lymphoma and leukemia put people at serious risk because, again, the immune system is so compromised. Underlying medical conditions like asthma, neurological problems and a whole host of others predispose towards complications and pneumonia develops especially quickly with this virus.
Experientially, both my grandkids have H1N1 right now and it's more a regular flu for them except the temperatures are higher. Both kids have epilepsy and one has asthma so they are being carefully monitored. Both got sick before the shots were even available. People of my generation, 50's - 60's+, have some immunity since some form of swine flu swept through the country when we were kids. I think this "pandemic" has been blown way out of proportion. People die from the flu every year. The big difference here is the age group being more seriously affected. As for me, I'm allergic to eggs so never get the shots.
I love this thread and am so glad it keeps going and going. So many women speak to my exact beliefs and are sooo funny!!! Thanks for all the laughs and good common sense.
Linda0 -
Excellent -- new ta-tas and clean pathology -- can't get better than that! How thoughtful of your PS sending flowers -- very nice touch. Enjoy la-la land, rest up and have a great rest of the weekend.
Elizabeth
xox
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This is my oldest daughter, a little Halloween cheer for all of my lovely ladies
I have surg tomorrow, I must have told you because sweet Konakat sent love.
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Good luck, Dawn, I'll be thinking of you and sending positive vibes your way. You're at UAB, right? I went to grad school there for my Nurse Practitioner program. Lived in Huntsville at the time.
Denali, glad the path was good. But you're right--who really knows about down the road. The smooshy girls will get perky in time. Rest up. Enjoy the snow today. 15" at my house already, but I'm at 7000 feet!
Hope everyone has a stellar day. I need to go shovel, help the neighbor get the snow plow going, and clear off the hot tub--it's so nice to scamper out for a soak with nothing but a hat and a smile when the flakes are coming down!
Anne
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Fifteen inches of snow? Shriek!
(And *I* live in Minnesota!)
--CindyMN
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Love the Happy Halloween pic of your daughter, Dawn. You and your daughter definitely have lots of the gorgeous genes!! Enjoy the morphine and hope you're back online soon.
Edit: I was thinking someone might take it wrong, since your daughter is dressed as a witch! I'm sure you know, Dawn, I meant the kickass bod, long hair, legs that go on forever. I'm sure without the makeup your daughter is as beautiful as you!
Elizabeth
xox
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Snow!!! And shrieks soming from me too!!!
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I was sitting waiting to see my onc then I thought -- gee, Dawn's daughter is dressed as a witch and I said they had gorgeous genes. I edited the post -- saying I was referring to the gorgeous bods.... I'm sure you knew what I meant -- chemobrain....
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bump
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atheist in ft worth. survivor meetings are full of women who don't think for themselves, an it bothers me and i speak up about atheism when they want to pray, and i am stiffled and overruled and discountted when i want to share data and they only want to pray.
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any atheists in ft worth texas?
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Atheist ... I'm sicker than a dog and most likely battling C.diff now ... so I'm pretty cranky.
I read your post on another thread getting pretty cranky with another poster ... wow .. cut the gal some slack. What's praying (or not praying) got to do with getting information and fighting this disease. I'm not much of a believer anymore .. but I sure don't fault the ones who get some strength and comfort from praying.
I like this thread cause the gals are smart, funny and irreverant .. a perfect combination, but they aren't hasty or cranky with other posters.
Now, I don't want to be a bitch ... but I am sick and I think a little patience is in order with those who do not think or feel the same way we do.
Hello to all my buddies on this thread ... Layne .. how the hell are you!!??? love you friend.
Bren
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Hi all..((Bren))
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Lisa ((())) right back atcha!
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atheist,
I, too, have read all your other posts; and I think I agree with Bren. IMHO one of your posts did seem a bit strong. It was the one in the Vitamin D thread on the "Circle the Wagons" forum, in which you said, "Do you breast cancer survivors not do any research for the sake of your own lives? Do you have no original thoughts or ideas? Yahoo or Google "vitD breast cancer journal" and "melatonin tamoxifen journal". Get a GD grip!! Be proactive for your sake if not your daughters..stop praying, start prying..."
I don't know how long you've lived in Fort Worth, but you are right smack in the Bible Belt. Therefore, it should come as no surprise to you that women attending a breast cancer survivors' meeting might want to pray.
I say that because I moved from a live-and-let-live midwestern state to Alabama two decades ago. I was shocked by the number of people here who seemed to flaunt their religious beliefs, and who (IMHO) insisted that I needed to join them if I wanted to be saved. That was not always the case, but it sure seemed that way at first; because I was accustomed to people keeping their religious beliefs to themselves.
It took me several years before I could finally accept all this super-religious stuff for what it was: people who believed in something so deeply and comfortably that they could not help but "share" their beliefs with others. It still makes my skin crawl, frankly; but I keep that to myself. In fact, I find myself defending some of those same people when someone else comes along and ridicules them ... like a few weeks ago, when U. of Minnesota "mascot" at a Minnesota/Penn State football game taunted a Penn State player who had knelt privately in the end zone to say a silent prayer before the game began. That sort of disrespect only won praise from others who were equally disrespectful.
We would be very upset -- angry, even -- if someone with strong religious beliefs insisted that we join with them in prayer, or listen to their "data". I realize that does happen sometimes, like when someone says, "Now, let us bow our heads in prayer," or when people all join hands and say "grace" before a meal, or when the announcer at the football game instructs everyone to stand and sing, "God Bless America" (right before the National Anthem).
I've decided not to let that group stuff bother me anymore. It really has nothing to do with me -- it's just a reflection of the part of the country I live in, and of other people wanting to connect. Even if I bow my head with them (which I don't have to do), I do not have to close my eyes or say, "Amen", or believe anything they are saying. But, I do think it's important for me to show respect, or at least tolerance, even if I don't always get it back from them.
Just my opinion, of course.
otter
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As Otter said -- whatever gets you through the night (to paraphrase!). If I want folks to respect my lack of belief in an omnipotent being, then I must respect theirs. It's only when their beliefs start entering the political or legal sphere that I will vigourously and demonstrably object.
There's an interesting book out by retired British Anglican priest Richard Holloway called ":Godless Morality". I read a review and am anxious to read it. Has anyone? (Anything that will help convince people that being non-religious does not automatically make them immoral.....
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"It took me several years before I could finally accept all this super-religious stuff for what it was: people who believed in something so deeply and comfortably that they could not help but "share" their beliefs with others. It still makes my skin crawl, frankly; but I keep that to myself. In fact, I find myself defending some of those same people when someone else comes along and ridicules them ..."
This is exactly how I feel, Otter!
I feel they are trying to do good in the world, in a way that seems to work for them. I don't mind it, I admire them for it. It doesn't bother me. If a group I'm in prays, I'll even join them.I'm not an atheist or even an agnostic, I do have an intuition (very strong at times, even) that there is 'something more' out there... but I don't think our monkey brains are capable of understanding what 'it' is. Religious feelings may even be hard-wired into our brains as a way to cope with the inevitability of death, I don't think anyone knows for sure.
Religion of any kind seems (to me) a fear-based attempt humanize 'God' , to put 'Him' in a box, to dissect him and try to understand what makes him tick, what he likes, dislikes and what pisses him off so badly that he will cast you into some sort of eternal punishment. It seems absurd to me to even try to think of such a powerful force in that way... and sounds not a little unlike the fear of an abused child toward an abusive parent.
I grew up in a fundamentalist family. I remember the rules... God doesn't approve of women wearing pantyhose, jewelry, makeup ect. God doesn't want me to wear pantyhose??? I think this says more about the men making the rules than anything else. Even at a young age I often had to stifle giggles.
I love reading about different religions. Some of it is really inspirational to me. I just believe that no one person or religion has it nailed... or ever will.
Of course, when it spills out into politics, I do get more than a little PO'd.
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Sparrow ... thanks .. you explained things so nicely. Much better than my cranky self did today!
Linda .. sound like an interesting book. I'm still wading my way through Karen Armstrong's "The Battle for God, A History of Fundamentalism." It's actually a great history book. And I like that Ms. Armstrong was a nun and a scholar.
IMO Politics is an extreme sport ... and I prefer puttering in the garden.
Otter ... I'm born and raised in San Diego, Lutheran by upbringing and schooling, then veered off into some weird stuff .. Anyway, I've lived in S.W. Virginia for 3 years now and I'm right in the middle of the Baptist bible belt. I love these people, they are so kind and generous, but I just say no thank you when EVERYONE wants me to go to their church! And I sure as heck don't talk politics around here. Just do a lot of nodding and smiling!
love,
Bren
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Oh dear, Bren, I didn't notice that you're battling C-diff! Crank away, you've earned it!
"I love these people, they are so kind and generous, but I just say no thank you when EVERYONE wants me to go to their church! And I sure as heck don't talk politics around here. Just do a lot of nodding and smiling!"
That's my strategy too!
It's not so bad here in the city but the suburbs can be a little hairy sometimes. Lots of good boook suggestions here. Hmmm....
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Bren and Sparrow, another interesting book (non-religion-related) is "What is America" by Ronald Wright. A real eye-opener,, tracing the settlement of the Americas from pre-Columbian to present-day. The bibliography is almost as long as the book -- the guy really did his research! Sounds like a slog but it isn't; however, it is fairly depressing.....
Karen Armstrong's latest book is "The Case for God". Just finished a review of it and waiting for my local library to get it in.
Bren, sure hope your C.Diff clears up mighty soon
.Linda
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Bren...hope they put you on the right anti biotic for the C. Diff..it is horrible stuff...
so when are you going to come back and visit San Diego?
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Hey kids .. Augmentin was my second antibiotic and that's what did me in. I'm getting better and was able to hold in yogurt, bagel and gatorade today!! Yippee.
Sparrow .. everything is going to be okay .. I know you're getting ready for rads, and you have lots of friends here who will be with you every step of the way.
Lisa .. don't know when I'll be home. The kids are getting anxious to have me visit .. but the air travel is so awful. I always get stuck somewhere (twice in Dallas) and have to spend the night. Or delayed in Chicago, etc. Sure wish I could take the time and drive out!
love,
Bren
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I'm glad to see that we are asking for tolerance not only of our beliefs but also of others. I agree that I can hardly expect someone to be tolerant of my "nontraditional spirituality" if I am intolerant of their more traditional belief system. I do believe that I have the right to set some parameters on my level of tolerance; tolerance doesn't mean that I feel compelled to join prayer or remain passive when religious beliefs are used as the basis for judging or discriminating against others.
I made a similar comment about this a while back and I was shocked by the judgmental, ostracizing tone of one of the responses I received. I guess I was naive enough to think that I wouldn't have to deal with that on this thread. Anyway, I don't mean to sound petty or resentful; actually, I am just writing what's on my mind and hoping that others will understand. Thanks for the interesting perspectives and resources.
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Hey Brenda , IMO tolerance ain't easy! And no doubt many of us (me included) are tolerant on the outside, but intolerant on the inside. Perhaps that's simply being kind and courteous.
OTOH, there are times when I think we are ethically obliged to demonstrate our intolerance -- of unfairness, of bigotry and prejudice, for example. We "gotta pick our fights carefully", I guess
.....Hugs, Linda
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What is c diff?
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c diff
is Clostridium difficile, a bacteria in the colon that can cause havoc...
a friend of mine has it..and was hospitalized for an IV antibiotic..
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Oh crap, I'm sorry to hear that. Thanks for the response Lisa.
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