Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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Hi all...EZ..I agree with giving friends and family something to do if they ask
I tried to make the request time limited, like drop me off at chemo..so they
know the beginning and the end of the request...it is a win win situation, they
want to help and we probably need it...plus it gave me a chance to talk
one of one with them for a limited amount ot time..
We all felt better
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Hi Dudess...I hope you don't mind that I'm replying to your note even though I am a Christian? I don't know if this helps or not...but I'm not a zealot. LOL. I admire your tenacity and your honesty...and you know, I don't blame you for your position. Looking around today at some examples of faith and Christianity, I'm honestly embarrassed. I can't imagine how non-believers feel.
I hope that your cancer is cured/gone and you are now in good health. I see you originally posted in 2008. I probably had my tumor growing happily away in 2008. I was recently diagnosed and actually just received my results today. Thankfully, it seems good. I've got radiation and other medication ahead...but all in good time.
I have found wonderful support here at this place...from believers and non-believers...and have found that the common thread that binds us together (other than BC) is compassion.
Take care of yourself....and never surrender!
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Ah, compassion; thankfully all of us human beings are capable of demonstrating that to others. How sad that we miss so many opportunities. LindaG, I wish you the best in managing radiation, meds, and "life after cancer." I'm glad you found the wonderful support available here!
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Well I fall into this group too as an agnostic. It never bothered me that people would always say I'll pray for you. I'll take all of the good vibes that I can get, from anyone anytime! However I never felt that I needed some higher power to help me through. Science, Surgery and Medicine saved my life, not faith. The love of my family and others pulled me through when I thought I would fall and they helped me stay grounded and focused on recovery. Nice to know I am not the only agnostic out here.
XO,
Regina
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Yes, it *is* comforting to find like-minded individuals. We're a pretty small percentage of the population. There have been many good discussions on this thread and I'm glad it exists.
--CindyMN
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My purse and I are READY for the full moon!
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LOL!
Now where's my purse. . . .
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I was a full-blown card-carrying Atheist at 19 when my dad died . Nothing was a whole lot different. I was a strong, smart, logical, nice, and moral person. I was fine and looking back on it, I still doesn't make me think it would have been easier if I were Christian at the time. It is horrible when your parent dies.
Now that I am a Christian and am facing bc it isn't that different. I am still strong, smart and logical etc. I know that my belief doesn't change the outcome, just the way I experience things. I can talk to the guy upstairs AND my friends. It is still up to me, I'm the one that has to go through it and work on my determination, attitude etc.
Wishing you all the best!
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Perky: As John Lennon said, "Whatever gets you through the night, it's all right."
Looking back on 2008 when my father died, I can see that the Catholic funeral service was a great comfort to me because it was an extended opportunity to say good bye (with calling hours, funeral, and wake). However, the religious part of the funeral, etc. didn't seem to comfort me at all. I didn't feel happy that my dad was "going to heaven and was going to see Jesus." I just felt grateful that he was no longer suffering.
Somehow ever since I was diagnosed with cancer, I did not feel like "God" was accompanying me in the journey. I felt the strength and love of my husband and my son, and my sister. Many people told me they were praying for me, which was fine with me, but it didn't help me. I didn't want to pray for myself because I knew it would not change anything.
Someone said, we come into this world alone, and we die alone. I think that sums it up for me. We do as much good as we can while we're here, and then we're gone forever.
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Two things I'd like to comment on:
First, about a week ago, I was at a local breast health center and talking to my assigned Nurse Navigator. She was talking about a support group and I was appreciative, but I told her that I would hold back for now because many of the people I've run into at support groups have been of the type that are religious. I told her I was a non-theist and right now did not feel comfortable that I could be in such a group and not say something that might hurt or offend one of them. I don't believe "god" is either testing me or punishing me, and I don't believe my getting cancer is part of any larger unknowable "plan." I prefer to focus on concrete things, and not engage in "magical thinking," which is what I consider prayers.
Anyway, she said she understood and we'd hold off on the support group for a while. However, ever since I said that, instead of calling me by my FIRST name, like she had been doing, she started calling me Mrs. XXXXXX, and was demonstrably more formal.
::sigh:: Oh well.
Then this morning, I was at a meet up with some local small business owners -- I forget how the topic came up, but I mentioned to one of the women that I have just recently been diagnosed with breast cancer, and since we haven't worked out my final treatment plan, I can't commit to certain things and specific dates.
Her very first comment was, "Oh, I'm so sorry to hear. Are you a christian?"
I was a bit taken aback. Why would she ask that? I told her, "No, actually, I'm a nontheist so I don't engage in any religion." She then said, "Oh, well, is it okay if I pray for you?"
I did chuckle a bit and told her that would be fine, I have no objection to other people practicing their faith. I DIDN'T say that I know that it's more for HER benefit than for mine, since, as I said above, I consider prayers to be magical or wishful thinking. Her praying won't hurt me in anyway, it's how she wants to invest her time, but it doesn't help me much either, except to know that someone is thinking good thoughts about me, which is at least an emotional plus.
Anyway, just thought I'd share.
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Ezscriiibe, Yeah, I can relate to the experience of having people change in their responses to you when they come to understand that you are not a Christian. I live in an area where most people are very religious, and I have learned to be very careful about expressing my views about religion and spirituality. Although I consider myself to be a spiritual person--for example, in terms of being connected to humanity, nature and lifeforce, I have left behind the Christian belief system that was taught to me as soon as I could learn. I have a difficult time understanding why I am expected to be tolerant of others' belief systems but not supposed to expect others to be tolerant of mine. I have heard some crazymaking comments, such as those that suggest I have cancer because I am not a Christian or that I can only expect bad outcomes with cancer if I do not repent. Thankfully I am not easily influenced by others, but I do tend to feel somewhat isolated at times since the majority of the people with breast cancer in my area (at least those I have met) appear hyper-religious. That is one of the reasons that I come to this site, because at least I can find more acceptance and genuine support here. By the way, I also consider it acceptable for others to pray for me, but I tend not to give permission for those who want to pray with me (I have made a couple of exceptions in weak moments but I have pledged to myself to try not to do that again!).
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I'm always a little curious when people say they'll pray for me...what exactly is it they are praying for? For a cure? For my sanity? Are they just sorry for me? Would they still want to pray for me if I had colitis?
Cancer seems to be big business for the prayer cirlces of the world...
Anne
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Yeah, Brenda, I think I would agree to not agreeing to praying WITH me. I would most definitely opt out of that.
Anne: That's a very good question. I might ask next time! }->
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I never pray with people. If I'm in church for a funeral or wedding, I do not kneel, I do not sing or pray about god, I do not take communion. To do so would violate my ethics, and seems disrespectful to the religious folks as well. I remember my ex husband would do all those things and more, and yet he was no longer religious. I asked him once about it, because to my never-christian self it seemed so out of character for him to say things he didn't mean. He said it was habit, and he hadn't really thought about the words being meaningless. Shrug. I guess since I've never been christian I just don't get it.
In other interesting religious news, I was calling around to try to find cancer support groups in my new town. One of them met at a local church, and I thought it was just because they happened to have meeting halls to rent. So I'm talking with the group leader and she keeps saying that the church would welcome me, and several of the group members are church members. My mom told me it was a very conservative, fundamentalist church. I kept saying "I'll keep that in mind," without directly answering whether I was looking for a church. It was kind of funny. I was afraid I'd be pestered by church ladies afterwards, but no problems so far. I guess she got the idea. I kind of wanted to be really "out" about my non belief, but am not ready to alienate my neighbors.
A friend of mine was just diagnosed with breast cancer. She's also an atheist/agnostic. She's feeling rather peeved at all the folks who are praying for her. She tolerates it, but it makes her feel a bit uncomfortable.
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On my way down an off ramp, going to an oncologist appointment, I saw a broken down vehicle and 2 ladies walking along side the freeway off ramp during lunchtime traffic, hot day. I rolled down window, told thm to get in, Spanish only but figured out they needed gas and I needed to get to my appt. I had the driver drop me off at onc appt and take my car to get gas and get her car off the freeway. I got to onc appt only to find i was there on the wrong day. Sat around and talked to a few people, went next door talked to radiation onc nurse. By then they were back, before i had time to wonder if i'd just given my car away. There were the 2 ladies along with another woman and a child whom i did not see in vehicle. They thanked me perfusely, asked me to hold their hands in a circle and pray. I followed instructions and as I stood there, I saw 4 people praying for me with such intensity and such glorious emotion, with tears, that I was moved beyond anything I can imagine. I thanked them and we parted ways.
It was moving and it was nothing but good so I think I will tolerate religious people as huge percentage are good. I always wondered if religion was not created for those who are afraid of death and maybe not the act but leaving everyone behind and how lonely that is.
I wanted to share this story as it was powerful in that I did not hesitate giving these strangers my car and I am not like that. I saw them as they walked on the side of the road, I saw one woman look into the other woman's eyes and I saw fear and I knew I had to help. Fear is something we all have in common, isn't it?
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My sister is a born-again Christian and has belonged to a fundamentalist church for over 30 years (all of us siblings were raised Catholic). She told me that I was on various prayer lists at her church, and every time I went for another surgery, test, or chemo lots of people were praying for me. That was fine with me. I haven't told my sister that I have given up my religion. I figure she doesn't really need to know, and she never presses me on religious issues.
Something I would love to ask her, but don't have the nerve is: If Jesus can do anything, and listens to the prayers of his children, and you and all of your friends are praying for me, how come I have cancer? (not to mention the millions of others with bc who are also being prayed for!) And, if my getting cancer is all part of God's "plan"--I think his plan sucks.
I don't believe "God" gave me cancer. I don't believe god can cure my cancer. I don't believe god has a plan. I don't think people are either blessed or cursed, depending on their faith or lack of. I don't think you have to be religious in order to be moral or ethical.
Wendyincalif: That is a beautiful story. I would have been moved, too. Sincerity and kindness always makes me cry.
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Wendy thank you for sharing that beautiful story. Your kindness for someone in need is heartwarming! xo
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Probably because you are a kind-hearted person who knows how you would feel if the roles were reversed. My sister has been a rock for me during this process, but I am more worried about her than the cancer. I know she is taking this so hard and wishes it had happened to her (I hate that).
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Oh, Magister, I hate that your sister feels that way, too, but that's love for you. I think my husband feels the same way about what I'm going through.
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My family is aware of my beliefs about spirituality and religion, and so are my closest friends (and some folks who just needed to be given the news so I could get them to back off). Anyway, I have been curious to see how my family has responded, since they all consider themselves Christians; at first they tended to blame my husband, who is open about being an atheist, for my beliefs. I think I have convinced them over time that I have not been "brainwashed" and that I have a mind of my own (I thought that was always very obvious!), thus I am the one responsible for my belief system. I think they hope and pray that I will come to my senses.
Anne, I have asked people for what are they praying or been told some interesting things without asking. I have heard: cure, feeling loved by God and not abandoned, receiving care from Christian doctors (which I guess is supposed to be somehow more effective), for my soul in case I die (I guess they figured out already that I am not a Christian...). When I am in an environment where prayer is being "offered," I remain silent, do not close my eyes or bow my head, do not murmur any particular word when others say "amen," often focus on my own breathing so that I don't get caught up in aggravation or whatever emotion might arise when I hear some particularly annoying things being mentioned or "asked of God." I will always remember a dear friend of mine, who happens to be a chaplain, who "prayed" for me prior to my first breast ca surgery in a way that respected my belief system and did not allude in any way to her Christian belief system. That meant a great deal to me.
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Laynel, what a great name for the column! "The Spirited Atheist"!
I bookmarked it AND added it to my Facebook page.
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Thanks so much for the pointer to Susan Jacoby. Loved the column, and have told a bunch of friends about her. I, too, live in the area. I'm hoping the snow doesn't start when expected because I have my first appointment with my new oncologist tomorrow! I REALLY don't want to put that off. I just moved here recently and need to get hooked up with the local doctors for my followup.
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Layne -- adding my thanks for your post about Susan Jacoby's column. Wondering if it will be syndicated? I think it would "read well" up in these parts......
And about your impending snowstorm -- are you saying that the ones from the north are gentle and kind, as compared to the "vicious" ones from the south? Anyhow, get your shovels at the ready, girls -- hope it will be more kind and less vicious this time round.
Hugs to all, Linda
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quick question to the shakeyourpurse at the full moon folks.........any fun windfall stories to share? I did the shaking and mantra this past full moon. We had an unplanned trip to casino yesterday, So, hoping to enhance the mantra, I shook my purse at each slot machine and chanted, fill it up three times. Apparently full moons and slot machines don't share a cosmic link! (Would love to have been in the security room watching that action on the security monitors!!!)
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I have a curious question.
I notice that when I click on the title of threads that have multiple pages, I'm always automatically taken to the last page that I viewed.
Except for this thread.
I wonder why that is? When I click on the title, all I see is the 50+ pages and then have to click on "Last" to go to the last page of all the posts.
I'm not complaining, I'm just curious as to why this seems to be the only multiple-page thread I've been on where that happens.
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I've had it happen to other threads too - the not going to the bottom of the page thing. It's a pain in the patoutie.
I thought the purse shaking was only for a blue moon. Geesh, I gotta get with the program! We're all going to h*ll ya know! Oh yeah, it doesn't exist.
It's nice seeing some new faces -- love the yellow troll. And Gryphin's artwork avatar. Such colourful people! And, on the subject of colourful people -- Layne!! You've been pretty low key lately -- and ya, blame the snow on the Canucks!
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Thanks, Madalyn. But I'm not actually seeing blank pages. I guess I'm not explaining it properly. And in the long run it really doesn't matter! LOL. I just thought it curious that any other thread with multiple pages, if I click the "title," I go to the last post I viewed. Except for this one! Oh well. Another one of those secrets of the universe thing!
Sadly, I'm sitting here watching more RAIN! UGH! But, I suppose rain is better than snow and ice!
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If I want to look at something here quick and don't log in, I go to the first page of any thread and have to click on last page. If I'm logged in that doesn't happen.
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I'm a newcomer to this forum (just had my bilateral mastectomy this Monday, after being diagnosed a little over a month ago) and am really glad to see this thread!
I'm the only non-religious person I know. My friends don't know that I'm a "non-believer", because to be honest the subject never came up and I feel no need to volunteer that information if not directly asked. At first it made me a little uncomfortable when everyone said they will pray for me, or offered me angel pins, and so forth when they heard I had BC. But after a while I was able to realize that this is their individual way of showing that they care, and just because I myself don't believe in those things doesn't diminish that fact. So now I just smile and say "Thank you so much", which to me means "thank you for showing that you care" ... not "thank you for the prayers" (although I know that's what they think I am thanking them for!).
I was raised by a very Catholic mother and was put through the usual religious upbringing. I did believe it all until about age 11 or 12 when I began to question everything and never got any answers that my brain and "gut" felt were valid. I honestly believe that people are either inherently able to or not able to believe; I'm one of the "not able"s but never felt that it was a disadvantage (on the contrary, in fact; although I would never express that to someone who does believe).
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Welcome aboard, lovemygarden, and best of luck in your recovery!!!
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