Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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ok, question.... is it upsetting to you gals if others say they will pray for you? Just curious, because I always say that (and mean it) I just don't want to offend anyone.....
Peace,
Maureen
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I do have a dog, and my son's dog climbs the ladder and goes down the slide. It just seems that "dog people" don't spend as much time talking about their dogs as cat owners do. It's kind of odd, when you think about it.
I wonder if there's a way to get this thread moved to a different forum. I don't think most of us are "Just Diagnosed," I know shirlann was around when I came on board in '05, and helped me get one of my co-workers to have a colonoscopy. BTW, Shirlann, I never did convince her to get a pelvic exam, and I haven't talked to her in months.
Have any of you gone to the mets board to check out the "women of faith" thread? A lot of our hijackers are there. I've never posted anything rude there, but I know where they hang out!
As to the question about having someone pray for me, I've changed my thinking over the past couple of years. I used to be a little offended, but now I've "mellowed out" (my mother said I would one day) and while it does make me cringe a little inside, I know that it is a sort of gift, in their eyes. In my church (Unitarian) people light candles for others, and I don't believe in that, either. But it's a bit of ritual that, like prayer, seems to mean much more to the one performing it than to the one who is supposedly the beneficiary. Just another bit of voodoo, if you ask me.
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blue 16, it isn't upsetting to me, however, as far as I am concerned it is a waste of time, I wish that all that money and energy invested in churches was spend on cancer research and other beneficial endeavors.
Brenda, ditto on the cringing, and yes, religion, voodoo, aliens, santa, all in the same bag.
Maple, welcome, like you I am happy to share this thread with other realists.
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One more thing, I love dogs, all of them, cats, birds, squirrels, guinea pigs, pigs, cows, lions, tigers and bears... you've got it most animals...
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Brenda, crossing my fingers for you, I guess a little superstition has never hurt a good atheist,
sorry for the multiple posts, it must be the tamox, breaking the thread of my thoughts, HA.
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Larousse, I never gave a thought to how out of character that is, just a figure of speech; I really don't believe there's power in it, of course.
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Brenda, I will admit, I cross my fingers, toes, knock on wood, etc. Even my oncologist knocks on wood, which always gives us a good laugh.
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I'm on a live and let live kick. Accepting people for who they are even if they don't accept me!
A couple of years ago at a dinner with people I met through a different online group I looked at one and said "if it wasn't for this group, how could an atheist jew from new york become friends with a fundamentalist christian from texas?" Stan, who is very bright except for this one response, said "you can tell I'm a christian?" What part of singing in church did he think I didn't get?
Maureen: we can live together if we respect each other's boundaries. During that time I was doing a performance piece about being Inara, daughter of the storm god. I was worried about how the fundamentalists would react - they loved it the best. People surprise you in wonderful ways when you just let them be and don't try to convert or remind them of how different they are.
Some of my friends will say that they know I don't believe but they'll pray for me anyway. That doesn't bother me. When someone comes on and tells me I'm wrong because there is a god, then I get upset.
Shirl - your daughter only lived to 14?
Does it matter where this thread lives as long as it's active & people can find it?
susan
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Susan, you're right, if the thread stays active then new people will find it, but if it goes still then a lot of potential contributors wouldn't necessarily look in newly diagnosed to find an interesting conversation. On the other hand, most new users to the site are newly diagnosed....not all.
I just jumped over here because I was browsing around and was reminded of one of my pet peeves, and that was when someone said that "everything happens for a reason." I don't believe that, I think it's all random, and there's no one with a master plan that's just too complicated for us simple humans to understand. I know a lot of fundamentalists get comfort from feeling that their suffering is a part of a greater plan. Personally, I find comfort in knowing that my happiness or suffering is utterly insignificant in the scope of the Universe. However many atheists, while rejecting the notion of God, believe that there is an order to events that is meaningful on a grand scale.
Comments???
Brenda
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It's a wonder, with all the awful things done in the name of religion, and all the nasty, unforgiving, child molesting people in some churches, that ANYONE believes. Even believers.
One thing I am completely sure of. Jesus would be appalled if he could see what is going on today.
People have every right to believe in something or to NOT believe in something, and in my opinion, even more right to be left alone with this. I am a Christian, but trust me, you would never know it. I would NEVER, ever, push my thinking on someone else, or in any way think less of someone who did not believe. To do this is to do just what I think we are not supposed to do. Judge anyone.
Hugs, Shirlann
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If someone told me that they were praying for me, I would respond, "OK so long as the government isn't paying you to do it." Later after I read the results of the government funded "research" project to study the efficacy of intercessory prayer, I said "Gee. I'm not sure about that. A recent study showed that people who were prayed for, fared worse than those who weren't ." Wish that I could remember more precise information about the study.
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If someone told me that they were praying for me, I would respond, "OK so long as the government isn't paying you to do it." Later after I read the results of the government funded "research" project to study the efficacy of intercessory prayer, I said "Gee. I'm not sure about that. A recent study showed that people who were prayed for, fared worse than those who weren't ." Wish that I could remember more precise information about the study.
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I am a Christian, so do appreciate it when people say they're praying for me. That said, what I have been most blown away by since my diagnosis a month ago is the overwhelming support I've gotten from friends and co-workers. Even people I don't know very well. They can say pretty much anything they want and I just take it all in as a blessing. I'm not much of a "people person" so started this journey thinking "I can do this myself" - but am quickly finding how much knowing people really care lifts my spirit. I can only advise you all, atheists and believers alike, to accept the good stuff people are sending your way and revel in it. It's all good
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sushanna - like your response. I remember reading about that study & I cheered. I wonder if it's because people who are counting on prayer don't do everything they need to do?
katirob - I do accept the good stuff people are sending me - people have been incredibly nice and supportive. Doesn't mean I accept religion though.
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Okay, I haven't posted here before; I've been following the thread but never had anything to add. However in the last few minutes I read two new posts that suggested religion and prayer as the way to get through the fear, stress, etc..... Since I'm sure that those women meant well, I will release my frustrations here. AHHHHHHH!!!!
There, that feels better. And to the recent discussion, I don't have a problem if someone says they will pray for me - I appreciate that - but I do have a problem when someone tells me, or tells anyone, that the answer to their problem is to pray. That may be how they choose to deal with things, and it's great if that works for them, but in this day & age and in today's multicultural society, it's astonishing to me that anyone would presume that others believe as they do.
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Welcome, Beesie!
I don't have much on the subject this morning, my son and his family got in late last night, they're here for the weekend.
I was out working in the perennial gardens yesterday, and noticed the deer have munched the buds off the tops of the phlox. We have so many deer, and they are such varmints, they eat everything. I've had my dh out peeing on the stella d'oro daylilies, and have had flowers for the first time since I planted them seven or eight years ago. But the deer have just changed their nighttime location.... we finally put a seven foot high fence around the vegetable garden, but it's been so rainy that most of the seeds have rotted in the ground.
Good morning, everyone!
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Hi,
I just came across this board. I belong to a 12 step program that suggest we get a "higher power" of our own understanding. It also teaches me that we need not journey alone. After about 3.5 years of searching, I have come to the conclusion that I do have a spirituality but it is not Christian or even a "God". I believe that we all have a spirit within us that we can access through prayer and meditation. When my spirit is low, I look to others whose "spirit" is high to help me. I don't discriminate. I may rely on a Christian, Buddhist, or an atheist. My spirit leads me to the right person.
I am pretty open minded and know that in Christian churches there are good and bad people. There spiritual and ignorant people in every religion and even among atheists and agnostics. I let my "spirit" tell me who is good and who I need to stay away from.
When people say they want to pray for me, I am thankful that they care enough to do what they believe. I pray for people all the time. I believe the strength of my spirit can help boost their spirit and give them courage to endure what they need to. I pray and meditate to help me release my fears and gain courage and to clear my mind. It is a way for me to recognize my fears, stress, etc. and then to separate myself from them so I can see my situation clearly. I then am able to see if there is anything I can do about the situation or if I need to let it go.
If the word prayer offends, then try meditation. I find meditation can work wonders. In essence, I keep an open mind and take what I need and leave the rest.
As for cats, I love them. I have 11 cats and 2 dogs. I am a humane society volunteer (or was before BC). Brenda, my cats and dogs keep all the little and big "critters" away. If I could only get them to eat the beetles that have not taken over my Pussy Willow. Last year, I collected some wildflower heads and sprinkled them in my garden. They came up and I have a lot of Mullein and black eye susans. I am planning on getting some chicory this year to add. I have not been able to spend too much time in the garden since my journey began but when I do , my spirit soars.
Debbie
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okay, I will post something here although I really haven't had a chance to go through all the responses (and what's this about cats?? How did that get into the discussion?
But yes, I am an atheist and my faith lies in science and in my own will...not in any higher power. I certainly respect other's beliefs and if someone says they will pray for me, or that I'm in their prayers, that's fine with me---but I feel it is more for "them" and certainly does nothing for me personally (other than to show me that they are caring, and compassionate, which is wonderful of course.) So yeah, the less talk about prayer and God the better as far as I'm concerned.Now on the other hand, what's this about cats? I love cats, and i have two right now...but I am very worried because they are quite elderly--17 and 18--and my older boy is really fading, and I think if anything happens to him over the next few months while I'm going through this, it could really break me....
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JC welcome. I went through chemo and radiation the first time in 2005. I was half way through radiation when my chocolate lab and my son's dog ran off together. They never came back. They were both killed that night by the train that runs behind our house. It was devastating. I made dh go that very same day and got a new puppy, another chocolate lab, which we have still, our Molly. She was the last of the litter, and is a little neurotic, but very smart and a great companion. I really couldn't deal with the loss of my dog at the time. Cancer treatment is surely enough to bear.
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Aaargh! I just had to come over to this thread for a minute for a breath of fresh air. The chemo thread that I follow has featured "Jesus as Saviour" and scriptures from the Bible in the last several posts.
Maybe I should go back and post about my faith in Ceiling Cat, or even better, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
From Wikipedia:
The Flying Spaghetti Monster (also known as the Spaghedeity) is the deity of a parody religion[1] called The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and its system of beliefs, "Pastafarianism".[2] The religion was founded in 2005 by Bobby Henderson to protest the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution. Because intelligent design implies the existence of an intelligent, but not necessarily omnipotent or omniscient designer, some, like Henderson, argued that this designer could, in fact, be anything imaginable.
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Just rely on the "Power of Good" - what is good for you? Nature? Art? Sports - Find the good in your life, in life and focus there.
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I know this thread is in "Just Diagnosed" so most of you don't spend time on the scarier forums. It seems there's been a lot of bad news on the metastatic board lately --- it always seems to come in waves. But, when someone takes a downturn is when the most illogical parts of religious belief surface in people's comments.
"I'm praying for God to do his will." (He needs your permission?)
"Adding a prayer that she can cash out her retirement and take her trip" (God negotiates?")
"If prayer can make a miracle there's one flying your way." (Yep, that usually works.)
I went over to my neighbor's yesterday to return a cake pan and her advice to me was to go around to all the churches, all demoninations, and have them pray for me. She assures me that I would see healing then. I didn't say anything, probably had my mouth hanging open. I feel a bit untrue to my values when I don't say that I'm not a believer; on the other hand, it certainly won't make any difference in her beliefs. Even though she doesn't attend church.....
Sometimes I feel like I'm from a different planet.
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Wow, Brenda, my mouth is definitely hanging open at your neighbor's comment. That's the sort of thing that crosses the line into serious obnoxiousness. It's one thing for someone to say that they're praying for you (or to ask, rather sweetly, "do you mind if I pray for you?"). It's quite another to essentially demand that you pray (or demand that you ask people to pray for you, which is weird as well as offensive).
How're you doing? How's everyone doing, for that matter?
I'm not liking Taxotere, except for the fact that I'm getting it on a 3-week (rather than 2-week) cycle. That gives me a little more time to feel normal - no burnt tongue feeling, everything I put in my mouth doesn't taste like brackish cotton, my body doesn't ache, etc. Heading out to the western part of the state later this morning to drop my daughter off at camp and steal an extra night at a b&b by Lake Michigan before Friday's treatment. Hoping to stuff myself with fresh local fruit before the taste buds get blown away again.
Linda
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OK, I know I'm a little crazy, but I can't stop being irritated at the inconsistencies. If we should "put our trust in God" and "know that He has a Divine Plan," does He really need our prayer to help figure out how to execute that plan? I mean, either you trust him and have faith that He's in charge, or you feel that you have to actively participate with prayer, and ask for prayerful intervention from others.
Does God require micromanagement?
Linda, I'm well. I had taxotere from January to April for mets, after getting taxol in 2005 the first time around. Taxotere was harder for me on general well-being, but I had less of the bone pains that I got from taxol. I so agree with you about the taste issues, though. Water tastes horrible, and I kept getting dehydrated.
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I just stumbled on this thread and haven't read it all but first let me say I am a Christian woman. God helped me make it thru breast cancer and a lot of other bad times in my life. I certainly don't look down on anyone who has their own beliefs and feel I deserve the same. I will say I can't imagine how you would get thru the bad times in life without the comfort of prayer.
To say God should know what we need without us asking-is like saying the phone co knows we need phone service without us asking them. Of course God knows our needs,we just have to ask.
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Brenda - the one thought I had when reading your last post is we need a t-shirt: god is a micromanager & I don't need any stinkin' micromanagment ...
susan
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Hi Susan..I just saw this thread for the first time...good to know I am one of many...
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Maggie--I'm glad you found comfort in prayer and in thinking God helped you through breast cancer. Whatever floats your boat. One might also argue, though that if She is all-knowing and all-powerful, then She must have played some role in causing the cancer in the first place. So what was that all about, some kind of humbling exercise to force you to your knees to ask for what you need from Her? What you needed was to not to have to have cancer in the first place. I'm sorry, I just don't get it. It must be too deep for me.
Brenda--It bugs me too that we are to believe a) there is some Divine plan that is both mysterious and beautiful and contributory in some fashion to the best-of-all-possible worlds, and that b) even though it may seem that we are getting the short end of the stick in this best-of-all-possible worlds as we lay green on our sickbed, it's really ok because God loves us, (Say what?) and then c) that somehow we can improve our own odds for survival or health in this plan via various modes of supplication and lobbying. Either there's an unfolding perfect plan in place or there isn't. To suggest the plan is not really set in concrete and is influenced by prayer suggests less that God is a micro-manager, than that She is a corrupt politician. It's really sort of hard to like such a person.
Like Linda, my mouth is hanging open at your neighbor's comments. It's really a form of pushing you away and trivializing your experience. You have my permission to be royally pissed.
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Okay, so I don't get it. Is God like the phone company, or is God not like the phone company? I mean I get these solicitations from the phone company all the time for services that I thought I didn't need. Does this mean that they know better and I really do need these services? I'm so confused!
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Sandra, I'm not pissed, just in awe that anyone can think like that and, for example, pass a driver's test. She is good hearted and generous, just not very adept at higher order thinking skills. I have such a hard time with people's willingness to believe without logic or analysis. But then, that's the definition of faith.
When I hear talk like this, it makes me wonder if the human race will ever advance intellectually. People just don't think! You see it again and again, not just in religion, but politics and just about everything else in the public discourse. We're too susceptible to marketing, if you ask me. That's what churches do, and politicians, and sellers of merchandise that we don't need and can't afford. They play on our willingness to be led, and to be like our peers. And if we don't follow willingly, they use fear. Fear of being out of fashion, of driving an ugly car, of terrorism, of hell.
When I say I feel like I'm from a different planet as this neighbor, it's not just the difference in religious belief, but in total philosophy. You get the feeling that they just don't think about anything. They are quite wealthy, and drive big cars. A total lack of understanding about green living, or the impact that their lifestyle has on the earth, or lack of concern. Another thing that came up during the conversation was appliances. Since nothing is built to last, she says, she's not going to even bother calling the repairman anymore. She just buys a new washer, or refrigerator, whenever it breaks, and sends the old one to the landfill. I cringe!
OK, I know I've gotten off topic, but I really do wish we could live sustainable lifestyles.
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