Hair Hair Hair - Another question
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I don't want to be a Debbie Downer here, but I just read an interesting article about the Brazilian Blowout. I thought it might be worthwhile to post the link:
http://www.nytimes.com2010/11/04/fashion/04SKIN.html?_r=1&hp
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Dutchgirl - My stylist just talked to me abut this yesterday. They definitely need to do some more research. I am not going to over-react to this, and as silly as this may sound, if I need to continue to do this to my hair, I will. I was at the point that I didn't want to leave the house. It took me forty minutes to style my hair, and it still looked like crap. With this, I spend about 5 minutes, and my hair looks great. I want to give my hair some time to grow, and with the Blowout I can.
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Erin - The hardest part for me was when I lost my brows and lashes. You have made it so far, and you are getting through the worst of it. Even adults can be insensitive to what we go through. When I first went without my wig, a friend told me "Oh my God, put the wig back on." Others have told me to "get over it". While I would not wish this on anyone, I tell them to go shave their head and eyebrows and lashes, and walks around for a while. See how it feels.
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Ok, thanks everyone. I had my bf trim around my ears this past weekend so it looks a little neater. The hairline and sides still aren't fully grown in...but I think I'm ready. I think. I've been showing more people my "free" head to try to get used to the idea. Sometimes at work I'll even take everything off in my cubicle b/c the damn heat is on so high and the hot flashes suck.
My hair is dark, but it's a weird color. It almost looks transparent, or white-ish. I don't know how else to explain it. Will that change?
I do love that it's so soft. Throughout chemo I kept telling myself that I was going to grow, grow, grow my hair as long as possible b/c I missed it so much. Now, I'm not so sure. I kinda like it "Demi Moore" style
Now I just need the confidence to rock it! 0 -
I am able to pull out chunks of hair 15 days out from 1st treatment. I made an appointment to have it buzzed Saturday as 1. its messy and 2. the lady I bought my wig from will do it for free, and I love free. Plus this lady is a BC survivor as well so she can relate to any feelings that may crop up.
A few years ago there was a local pharmacist that was diluting chemo drugs to make himself rich He was getting 3-5 payments for 1 actual bag of meds (Robert Courtney, google if you didn't see it at the time). The dad of a man I worked with died after going through chemo with this man as his pharmacist. But he never felt sick and never lost his hair. So to keep it in perspective I am glad for the hair loss, but sure I will be ready for it to grow back when the time comes. I hope it does so as nicely as the pictures being posted!!
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Erin - I also had problems watching TV for the same reasons. Everyone had hair but me. Then I would find myself staring at people's hair. What looked good, what didn't, color, style, everything. Even if someone had really bad hair, I would sit and think that they looked better than me. Ugh.
I will say that when I look back at some of the pictues taken (and there are not many. I hated having my picture taken), my hair didn't look as bad as I felt like it looked. Hope that makes sense................
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Hello everyone,
27 weeks PFC for me. Hard to believe. Herceptin # 15 out of 17 now complete - yea!
I took a ruler to my hair today, almost 2 inches up on top, a littler shorter on the sides. It is as that sticking up every which way phase - oh well - who cares. It is kinda of nice to just wash, comb and go. It has been 10 months since I last used a blow dryer or curling iron, or hairspray or moose. Think of the cost savings! Chemo for me done 4/28, I ditched the wig in mid-June and switched to hats. Ditched the hats in September.
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elaineg, there was an episode of "American Greed" all about that doctor! (Courtney)
I hope he's still in jail and stays there for about, oh, 150 years or so.........
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I haven't been a pain in the behind/needy on these forums at all, but I honestly am starting to wonder if I'm one of the people with permanent hair loss on Taxotere. It is almost week 8, and I'm basically bald as a cueball. The same wimpy stubble, which is totally bald in spots, has hung around for weeks. Everyone else seems to get a full covering by week 8.
Could you guys share with me when it actually started to grow? This is really getting ridiculous, and I'm danged sick of it!
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By week 8, I didn't have much. Give it another month.
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MHP: I did not take taxotere, so not sure how different it is than my regimen (cytoxin, adriamycin, taxol, gemzar). I just know that my hair grew in FULLY about 6 months after chemo ended. I'd give it a bit more time. Hope you're pleasantly surprised by your *new* hair! ~juli
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Erin;
Although all of us on these pages have gone through or are currently experiencing hair loss, few if any of us are as young as you are. I remember thinking when people would say to me, 'it's only hair'...I often thought to ask them how they would feel walking around bald. We all try to be so strong during this time, you owe it to yourself to mourn your hair loss but please remember with the process of losing your hair, you have begun the process of saving your life.
I went commando, BALD last night for the first time. Even though my hair is still pretty sketchy as I am only 8 weeks PFC, I just decided that I would do it. It was so liberating!!!! I attended an Leukemia event of 400...got some stares but my friends and husband gave me strength to take the leap. WANDA is officially now on the shelf!!!
Have a wonderful day...off to #20 of 33 radiations.
Fondly, Heather
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Amen Heather! GOOD for you going 'commando'~~that was very brave of you. You're right, we're all very different, and being young really does make a difference, I believe too. But, yes, losing our hair was saving our lives. I really LOVED LOVED LOVED being bald...my BF is bald, so we matched. I could've cared less about the stares, but was open to discussing if anyone had questions. Good luck on your rads...I had 35, 5 of them were boosters. KUDOS~~juli
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Try not to worry. I too had Taxotere and had no hair at all until about 8 weeks PFC. Then it started coming in almost clear and like peach fuzz. It was a full 2.5 months PFC before I had a full head of stubble. I am now about 9 months PFC and have about 2.5" Hopefully you'll start seeing some peach fuzz very soon!
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I was on Taxotere too. I hardly had anything at 8 weeks PFC. My last chemo was at the end of November 09 and I did not remove my headscarf until April 2010 ! I know it is hard but be patient, it will grow back !
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Oh, I love you guys. Seriously, I don't know what I'd do without these boards! You have comforted this bald dork very, very much. Hugs to all. I see so much about Erin, and given how serious it sounds, I tried to find the original post. Erin, alas, I have not. What I can cobble together, it sounds like you are young, and having so much difficulty.
I am not so young anymore, I was 39 at my diagnosis. But, I will say this: the world of BC is set up for the post-meno group. And that's great! It's a huge world of support, studies, etc. We are in a different camp. For starters, menopause from chemo is horrible. And vanity serves a different function. It's one thing to be in a long-term relationship, and another to be young, and trying to find love while dealing with an illness. I haven't availed myself of the Young Survivors group, but I plan to. Their statement is basically that this is a different disease for women under 40. A lot more research needs to be done, and we need better community.
I am always happy to PM with people who feel like they need to talk more.
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My sister was 30 when she had her chemo and she has had 3 kids since then, so not certain menopause... Oh and her hair grew back better than before, that was 12 years ago and it is thick and lovely. I hope all here have the same luck!
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Elaine, important reminder--menopause is not certain. For women my age, it's about 50%. And now, the studies apparently show the longer you menstruate during your chemo regimen, the more likely it is to return. Just so no one misreads what I said! Chemopause is not certain menopause. I wish it weren't certain ever! I would like to resume my periods. It is too early for my bones and body to be fully menopausal.
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True that MHP. I was totally pre-menopausal (age 47), periods regular. Until cytoxin/adriamycin, then I had a period every single day of the 8-week regimen. First day of Taxol---BAM, slammed into chemopause in one day. Have not had a period since, and labs show totally post-menopausal. Hence, change from tamoxifen after 3 1/2 years (due to BEING pre-menopausal) to Aromasin a couple months ago. I will not get my periods back, and yes, I'm too young (51 now) to be totally post-menopausal....not good for my already stressed bones (density loss). We who were pre-menopausal were not 'lucky' enough shall I say, to gradually ease into menopause. But, we do the best we can...gotta fight the disease. ~juli
(Oh, was this about hair, lol??? Sorry!)
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MHP... I am now 9.5 weeks PFC and am just starting to feel like something is really happening with my hair. The fuzz seems to feel thicker today and I think it is actually starting to lay down some instead of just sticking straight up and out. Not ready to go commando yet. It is too darn cold around here. It is so hard to be patient!
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So if I am doing radiation after chemo will that affect the growth or can I hope for hair like those who have posted pics? Also what about herceptin, anyone on that who can comment? Thanks all
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elaineg,
I just had Herceptin #11 yesterday and I think it may be slowing down my hair growth a little, but I don't think it's much. I am 15 weeks PFC and have about 1.25" of hair. Average hair growth is 1/2" a month I believe. I saw hair growth at 2-3 weeks PFC so it's been growing for about 12-13 weeks and it should be about 1.5" long but it's not quite there. I think other people have posted here that their hair seemed to grow faster after Herceptin was done. I'll just be happy to be able to cover my forehead, ears and neck. It's cold outside!!!
Jennifer
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I am on Herceptin as well, 2 more to go!
Just past 27 weeks PFC. Hair on top just under 2 inches, sides a little shorter. I kept looking and looking - I think that is the trick to get it to grow! Any way, one day I looked and there was black stubble everywhere.
I knew it was on it's way back.I did have some fuzz on my head that I cut off once the real hair started coming back.
The very top of my head seems to have started to grow first. That hair is definitely longer than what is just starting to fall on my forehead.
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Just to add my pre menopause experience so far. I am 45 mom and sis went thru the natural change at 50 so I figure did not have many years left anyway. I got my period right before my first chemo about a month ago now. I had my second chemo, (taxotere and cytoxin x 4, 3 weeks apart), 11 days ago. Had some pretty intense night sweats last month. This month I am fine just did not get my period. No biggie for me. I figure i wont need any condoms if this keeps up lol.
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I too was on taxotere and cytoxan. I'm 18 weeks post and just now getting full scalp coverage. Have a few bald spots on the front area but my onc reassures me it will grow. I'm on arimidex, so this slows the growth down significantly. I too had little stubble at 8 weeks and I actually lost hair up to 3 weeks after my last treatment. Permanent hair loss is a rare side effect, bet you get new sprouts and head full of hair in no time. Don't worry sick over it - it will grow back.
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Has anyone tried to color their hair after chemo? Mine is about an inch long. I bought hair dye at a beauty supply today. Mine is super gray and I wanted to make it dark brown. They told me to use this new hair color product and get a #20 processor. I was going to dye it tonight but I'm too tired. I'll try it tomorrow.
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Hi Kttycat - I coloured my hair at 12 weeks PFC and stopped wearing my wig that same day. I don't recall which page on this thread but back around the start early May, you'll see the photo I posted. I had a demi colour put on because it's very gentle and it took really nicely. I just had my roots done last week.
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Hello Kittycat,
I colored my hair blond 18 weeks PFC. I hated the grey hair so much. I am sure one inch of regrowth is enough. You'll feel so much more like yourself when the grey is gone!
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kittycat: I bleached my hair out I was so mortified by the all grey hair! When my naturaly dark hair started to come back I went back to my dark hair. The blonde was fun while it lasted but too much upkeep! So glad you are done with the chemo!
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Ladies, a friend of mine sent me this article--I don't have the link so I apologize for the lengthy post, however, for those of you who can't seem to grow their hair back, read this! Chemo can throw your thyroid and your hormones out and there are remedies for this:
Vitamins, Minerals and your Thyroidby Anthony Pearce
Anthony Pearce is a Specialist Trichologist & Registered Nurse - a founding member of the Society for Progressive Trichology & the official lecturer for Analytical Reference Laboratory (ARL) for hair loss & hormone imbalance. He is the Clinical Director for Trichology Hair Solutions of Virginia/DC in the United States. In Australia he can be contacted on 02 9542 2700, or through his website at www.hairlossclinic.com.au .
Shortly after hanging my Trichology 'shingle' I decided to specialise in female hair loss issues. I'd discovered early - contrary to general opinion - female hair loss is quite complex in what both influences and impels it.
Although males can (and do) experience different forms of alopecia, overwhelmingly the most commonly seen is Male Androgenic Alopecia - male 'pattern' balding. When a male has the genetics to exhibit this, it's as much a natural part of post-pubertal secondary sex characteristics as facial whiskers, deepening voice, muscle bulk, and body hair.
By contrast thinning scalp hair in women is almost always an indication of internal dysfunction; a collapsing of body homeostasis to the point where hair growth can no longer be supported.
From menarche* to menopause it's reasonable to assert most menstruating females will have some degree of iron deficiency at times in their life. Very few functions of the body are activated without sufficient iron to 'furnace' them.
Iron storage (termed ferritin ) is considered the true indicator of iron status - with an accepted reference range of 20-300ug/L. To aspire to a 'target' level about mid-range - i.e.: 150ug/L - could not be considered unrealistic given the importance of iron in the body.
The significance of reaching and maintaining this target level was the research of
Dr. John Lee - Australia's most prolific thyroid researcher. Insufficient iron restricts cell mitochondria production from which Adenosine Tri-phosphate (ATP) - 'cellular energy' is created. Our metabolic activity and Phase II liver detoxification pathways are ATP dependant.
Regrettably conformist practitioners still claim a ferritin of 21ug/L is within range and therefore 'normal'! Just two points below (19ug/L) suggests 'depleted iron stores'. To take this point further are they proposing a woman with a ferritin of 21ug/L (one point within range) will experience the equal energy and metabolic drive as another whose ferritin is 299ug/L (again one point within range)?
I also reject the claim of those traditionalists who say it's impossible to achieve a 150ug/L ferritin in a pre-menopausal woman.
In terms of metabolic importance, Iodine is deemed the next most essential (trace) nutrient after iron. Simply put: Iodine deficiency = compromised thyroid hormone production.
Testing Iodine levels is a simple urinary 'spot-screen', but is seldom routinely assessed. Low Iodine results in an under-functioning thyroid. There is also a studied correlation between Iodine deficiency and reduced IQ in children, and breast disease in women.
At the time of writing - Australian Professor Creswell Eastman from the Council of Control (Iodine Deficiency Disorders) - is urging food manufacturers to again add Iodine to their products. His statement arises from a recent national study which found almost half of all children of primary school age show Iodine deficiency.
A urinary Iodine test is not even presently claimable under Australian Medicare.
As a Trichologist/ registered nurse I'm unable to directly order blood pathology for my clients. Instead I suggest they ask their family doctor to review their complaint and authorise appropriate blood pathology. Two principle reasons for this:
It's a professional 'given'; the primary doctor has a right to know what another practitioner - orthodox or alternate - is proposing for their patient.
Medicare should cover the bulk of this pathology - that's why we pay the Medicare Levy.
It can be exasperating when zinc and/or copper testing are disregarded as unnecessary. Sometimes one will be authorised but the other refused. Both nutrients are vital for thyroid homeostasis (and hair growth) but each antagonises the other's action and absorption. If either mineral is elevated the other will (but not always) be depressed. Elevated or depleted levels of either mineral will have a profound affect on body functioning and the disruption of other nutrients.
Zinc is held to be implicated in at least 150 enzymatic actions within the body. Its main contributions to thyroid homeostasis are:
The synthesis of Thyrotropin Releasing Hormone (TRH) - produced by the Hypothalamus to stimulate production of Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH).
A crucial catalyst in the binding and activation of the active thyroid hormone Triiodothyronine (T3) to receptors on the cell nucleus.
Zinc deficiency is thought to contribute to poor thyroid hormone conversion - and deficiency diminishes healthy genetic expression of thyroid hormone.
A refractory zinc deficiency may result from inadequate protein availability (Baratosy:2006). Amino acid (Tyrosine) derived from protein is a foundation of thyroid hormone production.
Reviewing copper levels is particularly crucial. Low copper is said to inhibit thyroid gland hormone production, whilst elevated copper obstructs cell receptor interaction with thyroid hormone.
A deficiency of copper hinders the deployment of iron by the red blood cells, resulting in the iron being accumulated (and unavailable) within the organs of the body. Because this stored iron cannot be utilised whilst the copper deficiency persists, symptoms of iron deficiency may present - despite an actual iron sufficiency .
An elevated copper level and Sex Hormone Binding Globulin is regularly seen in females using a contraceptive. This is largely due to the additional (synthetic) oestrogen found in contraceptives and hormone replacement therapy. Oestrogen gives rise to copper retention - and vice versa - ultimately leading to zinc and other nutrient depletion, and oestrogen dominance.
Once copper is in excess and too dominant in relation to zinc, it can exert what Baratosy (2005) describes as an 'anti-nutrient' - or toxic metal influence. High copper levels restrict the absorption and utilisation of zinc (particularly), iron, magnesium, Vitamins B3, 5, and 6, Vitamins C and E, and certain trace elements.
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) is produced in the liver, and is the carrier vitamins protein for (amongst other hormones) 70% of the circulating but 'bound' (inactive) testosterone and oestrogen. Elevated SHBG levels may result in symptoms of testosterone and oestrogen deficiency.
In the long line of essential nutrients for optimal thyroid function, the importance of Selenium is only shaded by Iron and Iodine. Several thyroid enzymes are Selenium-dependant to the creation of thyroid hormone. Unlike copper and zinc, Selenium and Iodine are agonists to each other - with optimal levels of both (in balance) essential for a healthy thyroid gland. Selenium also has an integral role in anti-oxidant and immunity defence mechanisms.
There remain some differing opinions on the most reliable form of Selenium testing. Some advocate blood serum; others support hair mineral analysis (HTMA) - still others suggest toe nail clippings.
The B-vitamins are essential co-enzymes to maintaining mitochondrial ATP production. Compromised mitochondrial function leads to low metabolic (thyroid) activity. Thiamine (Vitamin B1), B12, Vitamin D and folic acid are synergistic to copper. Supplementing these nutrients where required helps restore body copper balance. Vitamin D metabolism is enhanced by copper.
The Thyroid Hormones:
It's not my intention to detail or even outline the anatomy and physiology of the thyroid-related endocrine system and the hormones involved. There are many excellent thyroid texts written by better educated and more qualified folk than me. I simply wish to convey to the lay reader what thyroid hormones they might request tested - and why:
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH): produced by the (anterior) Pituitary Gland - TSH regulates thyroid hormone production from the thyroid gland. TSH has long been regarded as the most reliable and sensitive indicator of thyroid function, however its limitations are these:
TSH does not reflect low metabolic activity; cell mitochondrial energy output and the necessary nutrients to furnace the body.
TSH does not reflect sufficient and quality conversion of the inactive thyroid hormone Thyroxine (T4) to the active, cell-influencing Triiodothyronine (T3).
TSH does not reflect deficiency of any of the numerous nutrients crucial to T4 - T3 synthesis, conversion, and activation.
TSH does not reflect T3 interaction with its mitochondrial or DNA receptors within the cell itself. If this interface fails - T3 cannot influence cell activity in any meaningful way.
TSH does not reflect elevated Reverse Triiodothyronine (rT3) levels which interfere with T4 - T3 conversion and T3's activation of its intra-cell receptors.
TSH does not immediately reflect increasing thyroid antibodies in autoimmune thyroiditis.
Difficulties with any of the above has been termed 'Euthyroid Sick Syndrome' - patient's exhibit symptoms of an under functioning thyroid but their TSH and T4 results are "normal".
Thyroxine (T4): T4 is secreted by the thyroid gland in response to hypothalamic-pituitary stimulation (TRH/TSH). This secreted T4 then circulates in the blood - bound to a carrier protein - until synthesised (in the liver and kidneys) to T3. T4 possesses no interfacing receptors of its own, but is the inactive precursor of T3.
Triiodothyronine (T3): although some T3 is produced by the thyroid gland, greater than 80% results from T4 conversion. T3 is our active thyroid hormone which profoundly regulates body metabolism.
Reverse Triiodothyronine (rT3): rT3 is an adapted non-active form of Triiodothyronine. In times of protracted physiological and emotional stress or illness, T4's normal conversion to T3 is corrupted - and rT3 results. Lee (2005) found forty percent of the synthetic thyroid hormone replacement Thyroxine sodium (Oroxine et al) is altered to rT3.
In healthy, minimally-stressed people rT3 is quickly purged from the body. When rT3 levels are allowed to become excessive, it inhibits and distorts T4 - T3 conversion - thus producing further rT3.
Elevated levels of rT3 are commonly detected in Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia sufferers. Arem (1999) proposes these two debilitating illnesses are manifestations of thyroid dysfunction. A characteristic of 'Wilson's Thyroid Syndrome' is patients' exhibit high rT3 levels because T4 is continually corrupted to rT3 at the expense of T3.
rT3 disrupts thyroid homeostasis by inhibiting the production and function of T3. rT3 binds to - but does not activate - T3 intra-cell receptors; effectively blocking T3 interface and activation.
Dr. John Lee was the first practitioner to facilitate the testing of rT3 in Australia.
Thyroid antibodies: thyroid antibodies are detectable indicators within the circulatory system that our immunity is primed against our thyroid gland. The presence of thyroid antibodies is sometimes discounted by medicos because a percentage of the population shows low levels of antibodies without any discernable thyroid disease.
Elevated levels typically signify autoimmune thyroiditis - 'Hashimotos' if the patient exhibits an under active thyroid state, and 'Graves' Disease' if their symptoms/pathology suggest the thyroid is over active.
The usual thyroid antibodies tested in Australia are:
Thyroglobulin Antibodies
Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies (TPO Ab) - the more sensitive test.
Researchers suggest a strong association between autoimmune thyroiditis and Coeliac Disease. Patients exhibiting both conditions were able to eliminate thyroid antibodies by adopting a Gluten-free diet (Baratosy:2005). An Italian study of female nursing home geriatrics with hypothyroidism, found that by eliminating gluten from the diet, the hypothyroid symptoms in these patients greatly diminished or disappeared.
The crucial roles sex and steroid hormones play in thyroid homeostasis - particularly Cortisol, Progesterone, and DHEA - have not been discussed here. Suffice to say the thyroid-adrenal relationship is mutually dependant, and a Saliva Hormone Assay of these and other relevant hormones is an integral part of the complete investigative process.
Toxic heavy metals - principally Lead, Mercury, Cadmium, Aluminum and Arsenic block the function of Vitamins and Minerals necessary for thyroid homeostasis. Where patients relate long-standing illness, toxic heavy metals should be an early assessment priority. Accurate and convenient testing is achieved by HTMA.
The thyroid hormone cascade is incredibly involved and complex. Vitamins, minerals, amino acids, trace elements, essential fatty acids (DHA/EPA), sex and steroid hormones, as well as the immune system must all be adequately available - and harmonious to each other - for T3 to accomplish its task. If any one of these vital components are lacking the process will stall - and optimal body functioning diminished.
In all this - hair is the expendable extravagance; usually the first tissue to suffer a withdrawal of metabolic and nutrient support.
It should now be appreciated that "gimmicky" single treatments such as laser combs, commercial hair loss programs etc can do nothing to influence nutritional, metabolic or hormonal disturbance. These areas must be individually tested for - but reviewed and treated as part of the total picture.
*the onset of menstruation in a young female
Orthodox Hair-sciences & Hair-specialisms - The Trichological Society0
