Iodine, thyroid, and breast cancer??
Comments
-
I am new to all of this and am asking lots of questions.
I was reading the Dr.Tenpenny study and was concerned about the increased Creatine levels.
I thought increased Creatine was a sign of excessive stress to the kidneys.
adomdenet can you help me understand if I am reading the results wrong?0 -
I am new to all of this and am asking lots of questions.
I was reading the Dr.Tenpenny study and was concerned about the increased Creatine levels.
I thought increased Creatine was a sign of excessive stress to the kidneys.
adomdenet can you help me understand if I am reading the results wrong?0 -
I think I have been researching too long today. I am feeling disappointed. I was so excited about DIM and possibly adding iodine. Now I see that the goitrogens mess with iodine. Can anyone point me to some research as to how the goitrogens inhibit iodine?
0 -
Here are two research pages that will help. I think they are reassuring that, as long as you take enough iodine you won't get in trouble with DIM (concentrated food goitrogen).
http://iodine4health.com/special/goitrogens/goitrogens.htm
http://iodine4health.com/special/goitrogens/foods/goitrogenic_foods.htm
anom
0 -
I came across this link in the iodine yahoo group that may have been posted here before, but it's a good one, especially for someone who's suffering information overload. It's a powerpoint slideshow that accompanied a presentation on iodine at a health conference.
0 -
Thank you so much!!
0 -
Thyromine is the natural thyroid supplements. Thyromine provides the top most combination of effectiveness, safety and many more. It is very effective and is very easy to use.
0 -
Althea! Thank you so much for the link to the slideshow presentation. It answered some questions I had about why I went downhill so fast (goitre, exhaustion, sick all the time, then breast cancer) after the birth of my daughter and extended breastfeeding.
I will be sending the link to La Leche League for sure.
Karen
0 -
Emilyroggers ~ FYI ~ Looks like your post might be for the purpose of soliciting, which is not allowed on this website.
0 -
I am soooo overloaded with info! Soooooo, should I NOT be taking DIM??
L
ox
0 -
this is a bit off topic, but I love and trust you girls so wanted to ask.......my breast surgeon said something the other week that has been bothering me, she said that I should consider tamox, just in case any cells escaped before my bi-lat mastectomy??? When I asked someone else in the medical community about that possibility they said highly unlikely..........shish! so much to think about! Any opinions?? Anom??? Vivre???
L
ox
0 -
Lorraine, Take DIM it is wonderful and helps you balance estrogen.
0 -
thanks Spring! I have been taking it for 9 months, I have to explain, I have a head cold (first one in years!) so feeling super sensitive and second guessing myself all over the place today!
L
ox
0 -
Lorraine, I suggest you get a good night's sleep and rethink all this in the morning when you feel better.
We love you!!! 0 -
thanks Spring!
0 -
Lorraine: My ONC said the same thing about it being unlikely that some breast cells"jumped" the nodes and are somewhere else in my body. But then how do you explain someone who had negative nodes and mets?? Just a thought that scares me as well......
Terri
0 -
Terri-Cancer can also spread through the blood. That is why getting clear margins is so important. I think if they get clear margins, taking nodes should not even be done. In fact, they are doing this more now in Europe. I think iodine is so important because it helps to filter out all those little stray cells. They have put iodine on tumors and it kills them. It makes sense to me then that taking iodine would also kill cells when it is in our systems. Everyday, we have cancerous cells in our bodies. What we need is to have an immune system that is strong enough to attack and kill them so they are not able to grow. Iodine is one way to do this. The more defenses we have, the less likely we will ever get cancer again.
0 -
Yes vivre, that is one thing I have never understood about adjuvant chemo. It all but destroys your immune system, how can that possibly help prevent cancerous cells from finding a place to land and grow? We need to strengthen our immune systems, not destroy them.
0 -
Yeah, Pat's Mom. If I had a metastic cancer, I could see the merit of aggressive chemo,to a point. But I do not understand why they tell women with stage 1 tumors to have chemo, as a preventative to get a few stray cells. Seems to me there are lots of things from tumeric, to iodine to all those antioxidants that could do the same thing, while giving the immune system a boost. The truth is, that they are not saving lives with this chemo. The statistics show it. I wish I could understand this whole "business" of cancer. Whatever happened to "first do no harm?"
0 -
Vivre~ Can you expand a little on clear margins and no node dissection. I chose to NOT have SNB when I had my lumpectomy (all other preliminaries, including US and MRI showed no indication that lymph was involved and I think there's some risk in interrupting the lymphatic flow through surgery so I opted out, much to the shagrin of my husand and surgeon). The tumor pathology report said "no lymphovascular activity noted" and this puzzled me....how do they know through dissecting the tumor that there is likely no involvement to the vascular or lymph system? Your comment above about clear margins brought that back to mind for me....any additional information you can provide to help me understand is appreciated. Melissa
0 -
I've been reading on the Alternative forum (mostly Natural Girls) for a few months now. I finally reconciled taking DIM (instead of filling the RX my oncologist gave me for Tamoxifen). Now, the whole goitrogen thing has me concerned, so I started reading on this thread about iodine. I am so afraid of messing with thyroid. I know many of you take Iodoral. I've been taking a tiny bit (1/8 tsp) of kelp when I take the DIM in the a.m. and I've started sprinkling iodized sea salt on my a.m. and p.m. toast with veggies. I don't think my PCP will "play" with me and agree to testing thyroid, etc. (and the oncology side of my healthcare group have less and less patience for my unwillingness to take tamoxifen or start radiaiton, so I can't count on them to do any more blood work than what I've already had them do). I'm in the dark as far as finding a holistic doctor....there are plenty of shady characters in the alternative medical field, too. Do most of you just "wing" this or do you use a holistic doctor to guide you through this stuff. How do you suggest finding a good, honest holistic doctor? I'm a Budwigger and am very hesitant about adding a host of supplements....that's why it took me so long to start on the DIM. I'd much rather use food sources vs. pills, so this is all a little nerve-wracking to me. Melissa
0 -
Melissa-from the beginning, my surgeon felt my nodes were clean. The mri before surgery confirmed it, yet they still took 2 nodes. Even two nodes puts me at risk of lympedema and they took so long to heal because they hit my muscle tissue. I just do not understand why they do not tell us to wait on the nodes until they check out the path report on the tumor. When they found there were wide margins, why did they go ahead and take the nodes? It really ticks me off! Of course they will tell you at the time you do not have to do it but they stress that you do and who can think at all at that time. I know I was walking around in a total fog and I was willing to do anything they told me. It was not until later that I realized that I had choices. That is why I admire the women who are taking the time to question BEFORE they do each step. I did not question until they started pushing the arimidex and I was having such a panic about it. I was also having meltdowns all through rads, but I was still being the good patient then. As far as the trend toward not doing node dissection, I cannot remember where, but I read an article about it . It basically said that taking nodes does not change the outcome because usually they do chemo anyway, so why do they take SO MANY nodes until they get clear ones. It does not change the treatment, so what the heck, why destroy the lymph system. Wouldn't chemo kill any cancer in the lymph? Just one of the many many questions I have never felt were answered.
Melissa, the kelp is not recommended because it does not have enough iodine to make a difference and it could be tainted with chemicals. You really should not fear iodine. It does not effect the thyroid function, but makes up for the lack of thyroid function. I do not know if I had thyroid problems before bc, but when I did the iodine loading test from breastcancer choices.org my iodine was really low. All I know is that I can really feel a positive difference since taking it. I hope you will do a lot of reading. There are a lot of links previously on this thread. I know there are some people who can educate themselves enough to do all this on their own, but I felt I needed a doctor who "gets it". I interviewed several before finding one. I finally found a women doctor through the compounding pharmacy in my town. She is a former obgyn who now just specializes in hormone therapy and understands the whole thyroid connection. She also can interpret my test results. I really hope you find a doctor who you feel comfortable with. I cannot tell you what a wonderful relief I felt when I did. I really loved my former doctors for getting through cancer. They were kind caring women, but they only thought in the standard protocol mindset. I just could not continue along that path. So I do not see any of them again and I never will. I have not been back to my onc, radiologist, primary or surgeon and I do not intend to. I just could not feel that they helped me, and I could not see wasting money arguing with them. It is a personal choice, but I feel like I made the best one for me. Good luck!
0 -
MBrowning,
Ditto what Vivre said about that little kelp. The Japanese eat more than that in a tiny bag of kelp chips. Also, most kelp is contaminated with toxins like arsenic. You never know what you're getting.
You say there are "shady" characters in alternative medicine. If you read this board going way back, you will find that many of the mainstream doctors we used initially were completely uninformed and hiding behind thier MDs. To me, when professionals represent themselves as authorities and then we discover they had their facts wrong, that is shady.
I can hear your fear of trying anything outside the official party line recommendation. I can hear your fear of even demanding tests. What I hear is, you feel your doctor is your boss rather than your paid consultant.
None of us can give you the empowerment that comes from researching with like-minded patients and finding a practitioner you trust. It takes time. It takes time. It takes time. Most of us started, thinking we would just go along with everything that was recommended by the official "experts." And gradually, many of the recommendations were discovered to have little or no evidence behind them.
The good news is you don't have to decide today or tomorrow about alternative therapies. And if you make a decision, you can change your mind.
>
0 -
Anom~
What I meant by "shady" characters in alternative medicine is simply that there are some out there that are just in it to capitalize on the financial aspect, rather than possessing a true desire to help the patient (it happens in every business and since alternative medicine is coming more and more in vogue, there are alot of sharks trolling the waters). Believe me, I am anything BUT accepting of conventional treatments and I am actually the boss in my treatment. I have been on alternative therapy since 3/6 (was diagnosed 2/17). The only conventional treatment I finally accepted was a lumpectomy on 4/30 (but no SNB). I have denied both tamoxifen and radiation treatment. This is not to say I don't trust my doctors (I like them all); I just am less-than-impressed with the "one-size fits all standard of care". Very early-on, I felt that the recommended therapies for my early-stage BC were a gross over-treatment! I have learned to ask alot of questions and do alot of reading before adding to my existing alternative treatment. I hesitate in adding any supplements, as I try to get as much of what I'm lacking from natural food sources, which I know may not be 100% possible. BTW, I hesitate to call my treatment plan as "alternative"....it has become the standard for me and it would be more accurate to refer to conventional treatments as alternative for me....LOL! I am anything but a "sheeple" being led astray...this little lamb has taken full control of her health and healing.
Anyway, after alot of continued reading over the weekend, I think I am ready to test the Iodoral waters. With a consistently low body temp (around 97F) and cold extremities, I believe my iodine level is possibly low. I did go to breastcancerchoices.org and will order from there. Do you (and Vivre) if she's out there think I'm okay to start taking the lower dose right away or should I take the loading test first? Once I resign myself to something, then there's the sense of urgency to start it right away. The good news is, that I did find a referral on their sight to a practitioner that is about 1 mile from my house.....yippee!
Please know that I appreciate your comments and I hope I have not offended you in my response. It's just that your assumption of me being resistant to "anything outside the official party line recommendation" could not have been more wrong....I got a little chuckle out of it, actually. In reality, I think my doctors are about ready to "fire" me as a patient (which is fine) because of my unwillingness to accept their recommendations. My reluctance in continuing to see them is two-fold: 1). I've had enough of the pitiful looks and sighs; and 2). I don't want to put any of them in a compromised position with the health plan. I know their charge is to treat their patients with the accepted "standard of care". Since I'm not going to go that route, I don't think it's fair of me to put them in a position of having to explain this "obstinate patient".
Melissa
0 -
I started Iodoral at 1/2 a tab per day, for first week then 1 tab and working my way up I have to mention that being from England, and living here in the states, I thought all of your doctors here walked on water, until I got BC, luckily I had an amazing breast surgeon and plastic surgeon, but the onc and the obgyn knew nothing about hormones etc etc, it was like pulling teeth to get anything done, thats why I went to the naturopath, anyhoo, I am very jaded now and question everything, because of what I have learned on these boards, I really believe we know more than "they" do about our disease, scary!!! 0
-
I hear you, Fairy. I was never one to go to the Dr. on a regular basis, pre-BC. My experience has been good so far, in that I believe the doctors I've seen are performing, in earnest, based on what they've been taught. With all the healthcare restrictions and liability issues, it is rare to find one that will stray from the standard protocols or that will agree with the validity of alternative or natural treatments. However, because it's becoming more and more evident that there is real promise in natural methods, you know it's harder and harder for them to bite their tongues. Talk about a bitter pill to swallow: can you imagine spending years and years in med school (plus thousands upon thousands of dollars), only to find out that traditional medicine is not all that it's cracked up to be. My head finally exploded when the 1st oncologist I met told me there was NO test(s) she could run to determine my cancer activity. When I challenged her and asked how, then, was she able to determine if her protocols (tamoxifen and chemo) were working in her patients, she indicated by clinical exam and interview of the patient. WHAT? I asked her, "For as much money and time that has been spent in cancer research, she would know if I had mets only if I told her I had pain somewhere else in my body?" I knew this was hogwash....I didn't have any pain with my BC; in fact, at the time, I was eager to get results back from my physical because I was feeling so great at the time. Ugh! The 2nd oncologist finally agreed to run some blood tests for me after I begged (CEA-125 and CA15-3). When my results came back in pretty low range, you'd think she'd want to celebrate; instead, she seemed disappointed and was eager to point out that "they're really not reliable indicators". Boy, those pink ribbon dollars are really being well spent, huh?
I have alot to learn about hormones, etc., but am continuing in my reading and researching. In fact, if I got paid for all this research I'm doing, me thinks I'd be a millionaire at this point! Melissa
0 -
Melissa-I think we had the same doctors! LOL I am sure mine would have fired me if I had not said TaTa first! I became a very demanding patient. All my questions could not be answered in my 15 alloted minutes! I do not think anyone was criticizing you. I guess we just get a little testy sometimes that people are not willing to do the research. But you DO get it and I applaud you. You are taking control of your health, just as we are. After all, nobody knows us better than we do ourselves. Keep reading girl! And I agree, I think we know some things more than our doctors do.
I can somewhat relate to the way doctors get so defensive when we question them. I felt the same way as a young teacher when parents made me feel that they could teach my class better. But when I became a parent myself, I totally understood where those parents were coming from. They did know their child better than I ever could and wanted me to understand their child better. I now think that no one should teach until they become a parent! I am sure that doctors who have had a personal medical crisis understand more and become better doctors, just as we become better teachers. I do not know why any woman would go to a male doctor. They have no clue how we think and how what they say affects us. While I did have a male surgeon, I only look for women to treat me for everything else. I need to know they at least get where I am coming from.
0 -
Melissa, you can start taking iodoral without taking the loading test first. I've never heard of anyone who has an initial test result saying they have enough iodine. I took my test after 5 months of supplementing and my absorption rate is lousy. Some of us have 'symporter' defects which interferes with the iodine absorption. For most people it appears the loading test is not covered by insurance, and the iodine project at breastcancerchoices will reimburse for just one test.
I also have below normal body temperature. I increased my dose of iodoral seven weeks ago and my temp rose from 97.6 to 98. I've even dropped a couple of pounds, which seems to go up with one dessert but doesn't EVER seem to come down no matter how much I improve my food choices. Some people report feeling great at the very beginning of iodine supplements, but for some, like me, it can take months to see improvement. I'm envious that you live near an iodine literate practitioner.
0 -
Melissa,
Sure, you can start without the test. It takes a while to get saturated as some of us can tell you from experience. So you can take the loading test in a month or so.
Althea, for me, getting my temp up to 98 was the tipping point for feeling good.
It took you a while to get your temp up there but you are reaping the benefits.
I just wish Dr. Flechas had recommended the ATP for you from the beginning. Did you say they are working on a test that indicates which people are bad absorbers? Did Dr. F tell you what percentage are bad absorbers and absolutely need the ATP?anom
0 -
Okay, here I go! Thanks to all for your replies and encouragement. I called the CNP that I found on breastcancerchoices.org. She's a popular lady....can't get in until 11/10. They've sold out of their Iodoral supply, but referred me to a local pharmacy where I can get it. The fact that she's booked so far out and is out of the Iodoral finally makes me feel like I'm in the "IN" crowd. I've felt like such an abnormality while navigating my way through the conventional system...now I feel like I'm joining a big group of ladies that are just like me!
0
