natural girls
Comments
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After 26 days- I am done. Arimidex and I are NOT going to make a trip together for the next 5 years. SO... I need suggestions. I will see my onc. Dec. 1 and I KNOW he will have LOTS to say about my decison. I want healthy alternatives. I feel like I was just getting some health back after bilateral sugery and then chemo. Suggestions?
Thanks
Diagnosis 1/25/2010, LCIS, grade 2, 3 tumors- (1.2,0.3,1.0) 0/2 nodes,HER2-, PR-, ER+(8.5)
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Can I take a poll on what type of DIM you are taking from those who supplement with it. I'm presently taking Nature's Way but each pill is only 50mg and that means taking 6-8 a day to get the required amount. Are there any brands that you can recommend that I can order online?
Terri
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Love that, Deanna. I will keep that in mind during my daily "thinking" about my life..... turning this into a positive, somehow!
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DesignerMom, my heart goes out to your friend who lost her son... what a heartbreak, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. No one would ever claim that either her or her little boy brought leukemia on himself. What happened is obviously NOT either of their faults.
But, even in infants, cancer doesn't "just happen"... something caused it... and I would like to know why. For instance, there is increasing evidence that ties certain additives in infant vaccines to childhood leukemia risk... it could be one or several of the many unhealthy additives in infant formula... it could be that the mom was unknowingly deficient in iodine or DHA or any number of nutrients because of the modern American diet that caused her son to be more susceptible to cancer.
Anyway, my point is, it's not the victim's fault in any way... but there are still causes, and it IS possible to determine most of them, and I personally want to know what they are. If they find out that a certain vaccine can cause leukemia, and your friend had her son get this vaccine when he was a baby, does that mean it's "her fault"? HECK NO!!! She was doing what she was told was the right thing to do. But, wouldn't it be better to know that so that other mothers and their little ones can avoid this heartbreak? That's all I'm saying... not that someone with cancer should be blamed somehow.
vivre, you're my hero! Keep doing what you're doing, sweetie... you're making a difference!!
my560sel, I'm now taking 100mg a day of DIM, but I have no rhyme or reason to it... I eat a lot of cruciferous veggies and am getting my excess weight in check so I consider DIM just supplementary rather than a primary way to keep my estrogen in check.
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crunchypoodlemama: amen to that!
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Just spotted a very interesting, newly-posted research link on a thread here entitled, bioidentical hormones:
http://news.msu.edu/story/6713/
This goes hand-in-hand with something else I heard last week from someone who had attended a major oncology meeting in Chicago, which is that the new trend in research has a lot to do with not what's causing bc cells specifically to form, but with what's happening in the surrounding tissues that allows it to take hold and progress. Deanna
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My560sel
I found a product from my health store called Breast-D made by Pure Essence labs
It has D3 - 4000 iu, DIM - 150 mg, Calcium D-Glucarate - 100 mg, Green Tea - 60 mg and Lycopene 6.5 mg in each veg capsule.
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Hi Ladies. Two great cookbooks out there for cancer people by Rebecca Katz. Fabulous. She hit it bang on with all the cancer fighting foods and is endorsed by the Block Center in Chicago.
On the subject of vitamins, I haven't weighed in too much with my input. But a leading oncologist and his team in my neck of the woods advocates vitamin supplements whereas another onco team in my city says no. You can bet whose advice I took. I take a lot of the regular with A,Bs,C,D, E and all the others (CoQ10, phytomegas, fish oils, etc etc.) that come in a handy AM and PM package. Plus I top it up with: 80g VitC IV drips 3x between treatments, Resveratrol capsules 4/day, Curcumin 1500mg/day, Quercetin 1500mg/day, AHCC (mushroom) 1000mg/day. I derive tremendous energy from these.
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gracie- I am treated at the Block Center and will check out Roberta Katz, thanks.
My 3rd TAC was yesterday.
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Deanna, that study link only addressed progesterone and did not differenctiate HRT from BHRT??
Teri-I finally gave up on DIM/Myomin. It was just making my eyes too dry and blurry. I guess this means it works, as my friend says the same thing happens to her on tamox. It makes sense since estrogen is needed for healthy eyes. I will just have to be content that my hormones are pretty balanced right now with diet, and the iodine is doing it's thing. My visions is bad enough, I do not want to compromise it any more. I have been taking a Usana product called visionex that has made a difference for me.I can actually read the computer without my reading glasses. As far as brands of DIM go, I was taking Myomin by Chi. Myomin is a bit different but they both gave me the blurry vision.
I just got my hands on a copy of "State of the Evidence, the connection between breast cancer and the environment". You can see it for free at the breastcancerfund.org site or get a hard copy with a donation. It is a must read for ALL women. Too bad some of those Komen bucks aren't going to this worthy org.
Just posted a link to a video from a doctor who is telling his colleagues to Stop pushing mammograms in our november news links.
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vivre, I found that link yesterday on a thread I've been following called bioidentical hormones. The question you've asked was raised since I shared the link here, and there have been several interesting related links added. I guess I'm in the camp that is now questioning the significant difference between HRT & BHRT. I understand in theory why BHRT, which many of my friends use, is supposed to be safer, and I still wonder if I'd been on it instead of Prempro if my outcome would have been any different. The problem I have with either one is based on (1) seeing women on BCO who were on BHRT when they developed bc; (2) the explanation from an integrative doctor that no one yet fully understands the complex role hormones play in bc; and (3) the concern also expressed by some highly-regarded (although not integrative) docs that adding hormones when we're not making them, including bio-identical, is tampering with nature, thus still unnatural. But I would be very interested in your input if you can take a few minutes to read the followup posts on that thread.
I also wanted to mention that I was very excited to see that Keith Block (whom someone mentioned above) will be the guest speaker at a UCLA "Insights Into Cancer" presentation in February. Those presentations, including a recent one by David Servan-Schreiber, are available on-line after the event. If anyone wants the link, just PM me.
And kira, I, too, had an auto-immune thing for many years that has totally gone away since I was dx'd with bc (also right after my first surgery). Interestingly, I recently met a medical professional/bc survivor who shared that she believes there's much more to the auto-immune link (or even cause???) than researchers seem to acknowledge or be exploring, which has really been food for thought for me. Deanna
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Deanna,
Are you looking for the French Cohort study referred to here?
Hormone Therapy Increases Breast Cancer Says JAMA Study
by Jeffrey Dach MD
Synthetic Progestin Found to Cause Breast Cancer
A new study published in the October 2010 issue of Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) reviewed 11 years of data from the Womens Health Initiative Study. (1)
Dr.Chlebowski, concluded that the synthetic Prempro Pill used in the study increases breast cancer, and these cancers tend to be the more aggressive. As might be expected, there was also increased breast cancer mortality in the synthetic hormone group. Note: PremPro is made by Wyeth (Pfizer) and is a combination of a horse estrogen- Premarin plus progestin-Provera (medroxyprogesterone).
In an accompanying editorial, Dr Bach comments that finding is , in fact old news, and this increased breast cancer from Progestin, a synthetic hormone, was not surprising to him. Previous studies had anticipated the effect.(2)
Censorship in The Media - Why Can't They Tell You About Progesterone ?
What I find incredible is that neither of the two JAMA articles nor anything in the news media mentions the fact that Progestins are chemicalized, altered versions of Progesterone. Nor do any of these articles even mention one word about Progesterone, which is the original human hormone that the drug companies are trying to copy. The synthetic copy is called a Progestin, an inferior, "monster" hormone that causes breast cancer. Progesterone is safer and more effective than any of the chemically altered progestins. So why not use progesterone? None of the articles say this. I find this form of self-censorship to be astounding. Doctors reading this JAMA article will not even think that Progesterone exists. It does exist. It is even FDA approved . Why the silence?
Bioidentical Hormones Are Safer and More Effective Than Synthetics
Progesterone, a bioidentical hormones, is preferable compared to synthetics. Firstly, the WHI Study (Women's Health Initiative Study) showed that synthetic hormones cause cancer and heart disease. If you look at the second arm of the WHI study, (which did not include a synthetic progestin), the breast cancer risk is significantly decreased. The cardiac risk was also decreased.
Therefore, the Progestin Was the Culprit
The culprit was the synthetic progestin called Provera, known for years to cause cancer and heart disease. As a matter of fact, three previous studies showed the same finding, that progestins cause breast cancer.
1) The Breast Cancer Detection Demonstration Project (BCDDP ) had an increase in breast cancer when they used a progestin.
2) The Swedish Record Review had increase in breast cancer with a progestin.
3) The Million Woman Study had increase in breast cancer with progestin use.
In all these studies, they were using Progestins along with the estrogen, and that's why they got those results. (Progestins are chemically altered synthetic forms of progesterone).
Examples of a chemically altered hormone (see below):
Medroxyprogesterone acetate is a modified version of progesterone, Chemical modification in RED below:
Above left: Bioidentical progesterone...Above Right: chemical modification in RED
A Progestin is NOT Progesterone
Progestin is not the same as bioidentical progesterone. In fact, Progestins are "chemicalized " versions of progesterone. The chemical structure is altered to get a patent. That's why they are so bad for your health. They have been altered chemically.
Breast Cancer Rates Fall After Women Abandon Synthetic Hormones
Secondly, when the WHI results were made public, prescriptions for synthetic hormones dropped and breast cancer rates plummeted. Two separate studies showed these findings: Both in a Canadian Study and a US Study (April 2007 NEJM), data showed plummeting breast cancer rates after the 2002 WHI study prompted massive numbers of women to abandon synthetic hormones.
Bioidentical Hormones Are Not Associated with Breast Cancer
The French Cohort Study concluded that bioidentical progesterone was preferable to the synthetic progestins. They showed no increased risk of breast cancer in bioidentical hormone users (compared to the general population). (3)
French Cohort- How Did They Do The Study? What Did They Find?
The French Cohort Study was done in France. Patient Questionnaires were filled out by 80,000 women. Over the eight years of follow up, they found 2,354 cases of invasive breast cancer among 80,377 postmenopausal women. They found that, for the Bioidentical Hormone users (using estrogen plus progesterone), the risk of breast cancer was the SAME or identical to HRT-Never-Users (the same as the general population).
However, for Synthetic Hormone users (estrogen plus progestin), the incidence of breast cancer was increased by 70 per cent. Sound familiar? The authors concluded that it was preferable to use progesterone rather than progestin. Doing so avoids the increased risk of breast cancer associated with the Synthetic Progestins in the PremPro Pill used in the WHI study (also called Provera-medroxyprogesterone).
Articles with Related Content:
Best Bioidentical Vidoes on You Tube
The Safety of Bioidentical Hormones by Jeffrey Dach MD
The Importance of Bioidentical Hormones by Jeffrey Dach MD
The Evidence for Bio-Identical Hormones The Battle for BioIdentical Hormones by Jeffrey Dach MD
Breast Cancer Prevention and Iodine Supplementation by Jeffrey Dach MD
Bioidentical Hormones and Medical Ghostwriting Links and References
(1) http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/304/15/1684 Estrogen Plus Progestin and Breast Cancer Incidence and Mortality in Postmenopausal Women - Rowan T. Chlebowski, MD, PhD; Garnet L. Anderson, PhD; Margery Gass, MD; Dorothy S. Lane, MD; Aaron K. Aragaki, MS; Lewis H. Kuller, MD; JoAnn E. Manson, MD, DrPH; Marcia L. Stefanick, PhD; Judith Ockene, MD; Gloria E. Sarto, MD; Karen C. Johnson, MD, MPH; Jean Wactawski-Wende, PhD; Peter M. Ravdin, MD, PhD; Robert Schenken, MD; Susan L. Hendrix, DO; Aleksandar Rajkovic, MD, PhD; Thomas E. Rohan, PhD; Shagufta Yasmeen, MD; Ross L. Prentice, PhD; for the WHI Investigators
JAMA. 2010;304(15):1684-1692. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.1500
Participants were randomized to receive conjugated equine estrogens, 0.625 mg/d, and medroxyprogesterone acetate, 2.5 mg/d, in a single tablet (Prempro; Wyeth Ayerst, Collegeville, Pennsylvania) or an identical-appearing placebo pill.
Following the initial report of results from the WHI trial,1 a substantial decrease in breast cancer incidence occurred in the United States, which was attributed24-25 to the marked decrease in postmenopausal hormone therapy use that occurred after publication of the trial results.26 The adverse influence of estrogen plus progestin on breast cancer mortality suggests that a future reduction in breast cancer mortality in the United States may be anticipated as well.
In intention-to-treat analysis, estrogen plus progestin compared with placebo increased the incidence of invasive breast cancer (385 cases [0.42% per year] vs 293 cases [0.34% per year], respectively; HR, 1.25; 95% confidence interval [CI], 1.07-1.46; P = .004). Figure 2 also shows quintiles of duration of study intervention based on time of participant entry into study and cessation of study intervention.
A significantly larger fraction of breast cancers presented with positive lymph nodes in the combined hormone therapy group compared with the placebo group (81 [23.7%] vs 43 [16.2%], respectively; HR, 1.78; 95% CI, 1.23-2.58; P = .03).
In conclusion, use of estrogen plus progestin increases the incidence of breast cancer, and the cancers are more commonly node-positive. Mortality data analyses suggest that breast cancer mortality may also be increased. (2) http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/304/15/1719
Postmenopausal Hormone Therapy and Breast Cancer
An Uncertain Trade-off Peter B. Bach, MD, MAPP
JAMA. 2010;304(15):1719-1720. doi:10.1001/jama.2010.1528
In this issue of JAMA, Chlebowski et al10 report results of an 11-year follow-up of WHI estrogen-progestin trial participants that address many of these questions. The authors found that hormone therapy increases the frequency of breast cancer and that the breast cancers are on average more advanced and may be larger.
That breast cancer rates in the WHI increased among women receiving hormone therapy was not surprising. Epidemiological and biological studies had anticipated the effect,5
(3) French Cohort Study Breast Cancer Res Treat. 2008 January ; 107(1): 103-111.
Unequal risks for breast cancer associated with different hormone
replacement therapies: results from the E3N cohort study
Agnès Fournier1, Franco Berrino2, and Françoise Clavel-Chapelon1,*
1E3N, Nutrition, hormones et cancer: épidémiologie et prévention INSERM : ERI20, IFR69, Université Paris Sud - Paris XI, EA4045, Institut Gustave-Roussy 39 rue Camille Desmoulins 94805 Villejuif CEDEX,FR.0 -
Thank you, Mollyann! You always have such excellent information.
I'm curious what your take is on this study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2729057/?tool=pubmed
Does their conclusion not possibly contradict the HRT-BHRT difference?
Deanna
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Hi Deanna,
Yikes, I tried to read the study but I don't know what 75% of the words mean. I'll take it to my biochemistry professor and ask her to skim it. She humors me on this stuff because of my breast cancer history.
I know she will scold me for bringing her a test tube study that draws conclusions about humans. She says they have no value when applied to actual humans because it is easy to get the exact opposite results in a test tube just by the changing the quantity of one of the variables. She proved this to us with an experiment.
Do you have any human studies I could ask about at the same time?
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Teri, I use Biorespone DIM 150, which I buy on line. That is all that is in the pill--just DIM. I take two a day(300 mg per day) as that is what my integrative doctor suggested. Hope this is some help to you.
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Samsue, thanks for the info on the Breast-D and all the ingredients, I am going to look for it on- line.
a note on the Iodine, my mother and her mother were ardent users of iodine on just about anything. my mom is close to 70, fairly healthy. her mother seemingly the same. growing up I do not recollect my mother's use of iodine, so I truthfully never used it. Being a nurse...put me with a mindset that neosporin was key to use for abrasions injuries and what nots. Since I found out about Iodine after BC, I use it religiously looking for something to put it on....lol.
my oncologist's assistant did not discourage me when I told her all the supplements I was using and that I was painting iodine on my breast...she told me Tamoxifen was not for everyone...I used the Tamoxifen for 3 months and the side effects were awful. I have no regrets...quitting the tamoxifen.
You girls motivate me...thanks for all the welcomed info!!!!
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Amberyba, that is interesting about your family using iodine too! Every time I read about someone getting an infection weeks after surgery, I can't help but wonder if it would have happened if they had been using iodine.
BTW, remember my experiment with the two scratches, one that I used iodine on and one that I didn't? This is now over a week later and the non-iodine scratch STILL isn't healed... whereas the iodine one was completely gone within a few days, and now I can't even tell where it was!
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While it is not lugol's iodine, the hospitals where I have had my surgery, always use Betadine on the area of the surgery and the area around it too.They do not give antibiotic prescriptions routinely for post surgery care, . Despite my numerous surgeries, I have never had an infection.
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Thanks for your responses regarding DIM. I will look into the Bioresponse and compare it to my Nature's Way. At least I would only have to take 2 pills a day and not 6 as I am doing now.
Vivre, I was not aware that DIM can affect your eyes. That would explain why I find myself using these darn magnifying glasses more often than not since my diagnosis. I thought it was just normal aging but it did seem to get worse when I started DIM. Do you think it would be worth it to supplement with something for my eyesight or would the DIM just counteract whatever I would be taking?
Terri
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Terri-
I take Nature's Way which contains BioResponse DIM - I take - 2 caps - 2x/day = 200mg/day.. I do also take Broccoli Sprout Extract - 100mg SGS a day.
I chose Nature's Way because it contains the BIOResponse DIM - but it was the most cost-effective brand. I purchase 60 caps of Nature's Way(each cap = 50mg) for $8.24 at swanson(similar pricing at vitacost.com) - which means it costs me $24.72 to get the same amount of BioResponse DIM (9000mg total) that would cost me $39.00 to get the BioResponse DIM from BioResponse Nutrients.
I know you are in Canada, so I don't know how prices and availability compare.
Beth
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Vivre-- DIM and eyes? I thought my change was due to chemo. I'll try to find your post on this. Thanks.
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Adey: the eyes may be due to chemo or due to decadron or due to DIM. I had eye problems during chemo (and for a couple of months after) and neither my onc nor my eye doctor were sure whether it was the cytoxan or the decadron. Interestingly my eyes have gotten better post-chemo even though I take DIM.
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Good to know! Thanks Mandy.
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Beth, I order my Nature's Way Dim from VitaCost and I pay $8.63. I know the cost is not too bad compared to other brands and a cost per but it's just a hassle with all the other pills I am taking to take 6 pills of just DIM. I was just wondering if there were any other brands out there that were cost effective and with a higher doasge per pill. Seems to me like I'm popping pills throughout the day whether its DIM or any of the other 12 pills I take daily
Terri
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Anyone here have or been diagnosed with leaky gut? I have had before bc a malabsorption issue and think it is playing havoc on me again. I went out and got some L-gutamine thru Renew Life and some Aloe Vera juice. I have dropped 5 lbs since August and getting too thin. I am also goin to see if my intergrative Dr will test me as it has me really off balance. I also have a possible intestine virus goin on H Phylora.. and I just sent in a fecal sample to be certain it is not active etc. This can come from food oversea's or restaurant food?!!!Wanted to see if anyone has nutritent absorption issues. Wonder if this has to do with any of my sleeping issues?
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Vivre : That's very interesting about the dry eyes. Mine were extremely itchy and dry a couple of months ago...it was driving me nuts. It felt as though there was a grain of sand in each eye. I did some research and read that hormones, ageing, hyperthyroidism and sarcoidosis can cause dry eyes.(Luckily I had none of those) I went to my doctor who suggested I try preservative free tears...I used it for a day or so and it worked like a dream.
I also decided to stop using my i3c...and oddly enough, my eyes are fine - no more dryness. I would never have thought to connect the two.
When I decided not to take tamoxifen......I was desperate to find an immediate alternative, ( I think many of us felt that way) for me it was i3c...and as time went on and I discovered MANY other ways of binding/reducing my estrogen, boosting my immune system, taking some incredible supper foods, and changing my diet... I quite confidently called my naturopath and told her to no longer order the i3c in for me.
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Here's a little research on the importance of CLEAN FRESH air.
There's a good list of the health benefits of fresh air.
http://www.natural-health-restored.com/fresh-air.html
Yep... gotta get those negative ions into us!
Have a lovely day ladies...x
Victoria
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Teri-I just decided to stop the I3C because the eye issue was too important to me. Besides, the more I study, the more I feel that hormones are not the key issue to stopping recurrances, it is toxins and antioxidants. If we keep the toxins minimal, by stopping putting all the crap on our bodies and in our homes, we can do a lot. As I said, I believe the trigger for my bc was chlorine, which I no longer us, and the iodine I use is helping to chelate out the halides I cannot contro. The other issue for me, is my teeth. I know some people think this is not a link, but I am convinced it was for me. I could see the bacteria after having my root canal removed, and will be starting to get my mercury amalgams replaced next week. If my immune system does not have to continuously work to fight constant bacterial attacks from my mouth, it has the power to knock out free radicals. And I also feel the high quality supplements I am taking with Usana are the icing on the cake. Plus, I am not taking so many different pills anymore. Usana has great combos that have simplified my life.
I think it is important to add only one thing at a time. That way, if you have a reaction, like I did with the eyes, you know what causes it.
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donnadio: Although I don't have your problem/symptoms, I thought I would mention Wobenzyme tablets. They are great for inflammation, prevention of recurrence of BC but I believe it's also good for absorption. Melatonin is great for BC and is usefull not only for sleep but as a deterrent as well.
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MBJ, I agree. Wobenzyme has taken away all my achy joint symptoms. I swear by it. Much better for me than glucosomine/condroiten.
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Thanks!!! I do remmeber taking Wobenzyme prior to BC and yes, was highly recommended to me. I am hoping this area that I am managing is goin to help. I sleep so lousy and am on melatonin by Life Extension. I also am currently off sugar and never really did that wholeheartedly. Restless Leg syndrome is also one more area i am goin to look into as as night i am just not comfortable and legs are always weak?!
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