natural girls
Comments
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I don't know, for a fact, that fish oil's components, or it's effectivness is any better than chia seed oil. I get mine from the company Deva Nutrition. Here is what it has listed:
Alpha-Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 550 mg
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 200 mg
Oleic Acid (Omega 9) 90 mg
I attending a seminar were they dicussed historical food sources of our local Native Americans(Indians) (Newport Beach, CA) and learned that chia was an important staple of theirs. I was hiking inland San Diego and came across the cutest little plant with blue flowers. I was surprised to find that it was a chia plant. I also never realized chia was a member of the salvia family. Did you start taking the oil to stop the depression/anxiety, or did you notice an improvement in the depression/anxiety 'after' you started using the oil and made an association? In any event I'm glad you no longer suffer from depression/anxiety-it's horrible I've been there. Luckily it's many years behind me. I attribute my cause as a fluctuation in my hormone levels. Of course when you go to a doctor the first thing they offer you is antidepressants, rather than looking for a cause...
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My thoughts are a bit ambivalent about the Co Q 10 study. Most supplements do not do much either way if only used, and tested in isolation. They all need to be used and tested synergistically, which of course, seldom happens. There also seems to be a concerted effort to bring these isolated studies out, that show negative results for supplements, in the hopes to scare people to stop using them. Most people are not like us. They do not dig further. They read the headlines and that is all the take to heart. But too many people are opting for supplements as opposed to drugs. This is costing the drug companies billions, so they get their PR people to do these press releases, or they fund these studies themselves in order to undermine the trend toward holistic health. And then they lobby to get congress to regulate more, in hopes of stopping supplements completely, leaving people left with nothing but drugs. Of course, then they will come up with a synthetic new miracle drug, that is probably just a combo of the supplements we now get, and charge a small fortune for them!
This is no small matter. We need to keep our eye on this and not allow it to happen. The new "Food Safety Bill" is a joke. It will not only destroy small organic farmers it will eliminate all herbal and supplemental treatments because everything will be forced to be FDA approved.
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Many thanks Jessamine for the full text for the CoQ10 study. I read it last night and again this morning and it's hard to understand and it's raised many questions which I need to look for so I think I'll be reading it several more times before I get the answers.
This was a meticulous study but it's really only comparing the plasma CoQ10 for BC women and controls, not looking at the benefits or harm from supplements.
There seem to be no conflicts of interest.
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Disclosure of Potential Conflicts of Interest
No potential conflicts of interest were disclosed.
Grant Support: National Cancer Institute grants R03 CA132149, P01 CA33619, P30 CA71789, and R37 CA54281 and NIH, Department of Health and Human Services (contracts N01-PC-35137 and N01-PC-35139). W. Chai was supported by a postdoctoral fellowship, grant R25 CA90956.0 -
Of interest to those taking both CoQ10 and hormonals, or thinking of taking hormonals, from the same study mentioned above;
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Circulating CoQ10 may reflect different physiologic conditions in postmenopausal breast cancer as compared with premenopausal breast cancer. A study by Palan et al. (12) reported that serum CoQ10 levels were higher among postmenopausal than among premenopausal women, suggesting that circulating steroid hormone or gonadotropin concentrations may influence plasma levels of CoQ10. The inverse association of CoQ10 with SHBG might partially explain the relation between CoQ10 and postmenopausal breast cancer, as higher SHBG concentrations are associated with reduced breast cancer risk (17). In contrast to the results of Palan et al. (12), we found that plasma CoQ10 levels were higher among breast cancer cases who were current HRT users compared with nonusers. Although HRT use is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer (18), its influence on the relation between CoQ10 and breast cancer risk requires further investigation.
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Those of you who study the bio-identicals may be able to interpret this as I know little about this subject.
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makingway- i started on the fish oil for depression (after trying flax) and there is no question that it had an effect. it's been 5 years, i've been on and off many times and i know it's what's working. I was told by various practitioners that it had components that were unavailable via plants- as i said i was vegetarian and tried really hard to fight the idea of taking it. I don't remember exactly what they said- i see my person tues and will try to remember to ask her about it.
sheila thank you for reading the study for us! better you than me!
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CoQ10 and γ-tocopherol (gamma-tocopherol from complete vitamin E), again from the same study mentioned above:
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Circulating CoQ10 may not be indicative of intracellular CoQ10. Increased circulating CoQ10 in aging humans may be a response to chronic inflammation and heightened systemic and/or tissue-specific oxidation (19). The positive association between plasma γ-tocopherol and CoQ10 levels would be consistent with such a theory, as γ-tocopherol levels increase in response to inflammation (20, 21), yet γ-tocopherol itself is thought to be an important antioxidant that reduces cellular DNA damage resulting from nitrosative oxidation (21). In such a model, CoQ10 would not be causally related to postmenopausal breast cancer risk, but may represent a marker of adverse physiologic conditions. Clearly, the association of such markers with disease risk is complex and care must be exercised in their interpretation. The observation that CoQ10 was positively associated with breast cancer risk in individuals with low, but not high, γ-tocopherol levels deserves further investigation.
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Note that most vitamin E is Alpha tocopheral and lowers the blood level of gamma tocopherol.
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I wish someone would do this kind of study on women who are dx'd with bc. Maybe then we'd start to get some answers!
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Conclusion and limitations of the above study;
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In conclusion, this study provides evidence suggesting a positive association of plasma CoQ10 levels with postmenopausal breast cancer risk. Although this investigation had some limitations, including the use of only one measure to assess circulating CoQ10 levels, the possibility that CoQ10 levels were not assessed during the relevant time period, and a relatively short follow-up time (75% of the cases were diagnosed within 2.5 years of blood donation), the results are nonetheless novel and biologically plausible. Prospective studies with a larger sample size and longer follow-up periods are needed to determine the potential role of CoQ10 in the etiology of breast cancer, as well as additional research into the physiologic regulation and function of circulating CoQ10.
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These are not all the limitations. I fail to see how they could exclude all women who had a recurrence within one year of the blood sample in case existing recurrence had not been diagnosed, yet for the period 1 to 2.5 years after the blood sample it was presumed recurrence was more likely to be new. Do they really know how long mets are brewing before they are diagnosed due to symptoms? If the primary tumour has been growing for 10 or more years before diagnosis this seems mere speculation as it probably starts from cancer stem cells which can't be measured. Something must trigger the stem cells to start growing but at first they would surely be a microscopic bunch of cells? I wish I could understand better but then I'm not a scientist, statistician or oncologist.
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Ladies,
Seems like ages since I've been on these boards (family health issues overhadowing my own). Now that I'm back to monitoring my own stuff, seems like my liver function numbers - specifically alkaline phosphatase - are not good. In a range of 30-110, my Alk Phosphatase is now 142. (I'm on Arimidex so I'm assuming that is probably the cause.)
Been reading up and it seems that Milk Thistle Seed and SAM-e are the best supplements for inproving my liver function numbers. Tell me please - how much Milk Thistle and SAM-e should I take daily ? Are there any other supplements that will help ?
As always, thank you !
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MTG
Don't forget those liver loving foods such as spinach and kale, they are high in folic acid.
Glenis
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Hi MTG, my naturopath has me on 500mg of silmarin (milk thistle) a day.
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Liver protection plan
--Fresh unprocessed fruit and veg.
--pure water
--exercise
--carrots, spinach, sweet potatoes, cantaloupe, pumpkin, kale, winter squash, citrus fruit, broccoli, strawberries, tomatoes, melons, bell peppers, brussel sprouts and cabbage. (Such a wide range can please just about everyone).
-- 3-5 servings daily of fruit and veg.(doesn't have to be large amounts).
-- avoid sugar, highly refined foods and soft drinks whenever possible.
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I know some of you might think I am just beating the same horse, but I was doing the same thing all of you are for almost 3 years, researching every ingredient and every study and it was exhausting and confusing. As you all know, there is so much confusing information out there, it is hard to know who to believe. When I started looking into Usana, I realized they are doing the research constantly and I could trust in their scientists. They are led by one of the most reknowned microbiologists in the world, Dr. Myron Wentz and his team is constantly adjusting formulas to new standards and research. For instance, they use to have a vegan form of Omega 3, which was a combo of flax seed oil, pumpkin seed oil, and olive oil. But they recently discontinued it because they found better results with the fish oil. One of the products I love the most is called Hepasil. It is a combo of several components for liver support that I use to take separately (milk thistle, broccoli extract, green tea extract, tumeric, alpha lipoic acid, and olive oil extract), and in the amounts that they have found to be synergistic. I do not have to guess any more how much to take. Every one of their products is manufactured under pharmaceutical standards. There are only 3 other companies ( 1 in US and 2 in Canada), that does this for every product. And since I am taking less pills now, I am actually spending the same amount I was before, but most of all, I do not have to worry about what I am taking any more.
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I am suffering from extremely dry hair and skin. I live in the south so we do not have the extreme cold and dry weather here. I have always been an oily person. Has I have gotten older I am not quite as oily but I have never been dry. I have one more week of rads left and am wondering if rads could be the cause of this. I am using the unrefined coconut oil and no matter how much I put on it just soaks up into my skin. Any comments or suggestions would be gdreatly appreciated. I may end up being a raisin before long.
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Fresh juice is great! Now that I'm doing it all other juices from the store just don't taste good. I've also switched to organic milk. It cost a little more, but doesn't spoil as fast as regular milk and taste wonderful!
I've also switched to almost all natural cleaners and they clean just as good as all that stuff on the store shelves. Don't want any chemicals around me if I can help it. My husband has COPD and since we've made these changes we are both feeling so much better. He's doing so good in fact that instead of seeing his doctor every 3 months, he was told he only had to come in twice a year!
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Why does organic milk last longer that the other? I have been using organic milk for several years. Tast better and with just DH and me we don't throw any away because we drink it before it goes bad. But I have always wondered why the shelf like is longer
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Hi Ladies,
I read but don't post here. I've learned a lot and I thank you. I ran across a tweet from Jillian Michaels re soy. I'd like to know what you think about it. Sorry if you all discussed this before. I had a lady in my church after I was dx wanting me to take these supplements containing soy. She said that the latest research has said that actually MORE soy is good for bc survivors. I started drinking soy milk 2 years before I was diagnosed. I wasn't buying what she was selling. I had to almost be rude and tell her no. I've tried hard to cut all soy out of my diet but it's impossible. As I read this ... and I really don't know ... it seemed like it was overstated. Is this stuff true? I'm getting scared to eat anything these days.
Thank you for your input. I'm trying hard to eat healthy and clean but it seems nearly impossible. Thank you!
[Edit] Forgot to add the link.
Here it is: http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
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Hi Naturals, I've been lurking but just joined.
I have what may sound like a stupid question. I bought a peanut butter-sized jar of wonderful organic coconut oil which my husband used for cooking. Then I reordered coconut oil from a different company and the oil came in what looks like a large hand lotion bottle.
Are they the same thing? It feels weird to cook from this kind of hand lotion container.
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Hi Dawne-Hope,
I did a lot of internet research after my diagnosis to find out if soy was safe and I found they used to think that soy was good for BC but there were studies showing the opposite too. Overall it seems that the good studies come from Asia and further research shows it's likely that those who grow up eating lots of soy find it protective later for BC and those who don't eat much as children will find it increases risk. Then of course there's all the other problems mentioned by Mercola. That's a large and complex article you posted and I can only comment on the area I've researched.
So unless we grew up eating it almost daily and can find pure unadulterated soy we'd best stay clear. I find that eating lots of real, basic foods and avoiding processed foods is the best way to avoid all the hidden ingredients.
I've found it easiest when faced with persistent dietary advice to thank them and say it doesn't agree with me. What I really mean is it may increase my risk, but they think I have a digestive problem. It's not untruthful and saves offending someone who just wants to help.
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Why does organic milk last longer that the other? I have been using organic milk for several years. Tast better and with just DH and me we don't throw any away because we drink it before it goes bad. But I have always wondered why the shelf like is longer
Girls, I hate to burst your bubble, but organic milk from the grocery store isn't good either, for two reasons: 1) it's still from corn-fed cows (yes, it's organic corn, but cows are supposed to eat grass, not corn), and 2) it's ultra-pasteurized... meaning it's pasteurized at such a high temperature that it becomes completely "dead." They have to add junk into it just to make it taste drinkable. Ultra-pasteurized milk doesn't even need to be refrigerated until it's opened, and actually its shelf life is more like 6 to 9 months... much longer than the expiration date on the carton. (They don't put the real expiration date because it would creep people out!)
If you're going to drink milk or feed it to your family, try to find a local farm that raises grass-fed dairy cows, and buy it raw if possible so that the good cancer-fighting nutrients stay intact. There's a site called realmilk.com that lets you search for grass-fed dairy farms near where you live.
Matty, do you have to "squirt" it out (e.g. is it liquid)? Pure coconut oil is solid at room temperature (except when it's really hot, like over 80 degrees). If the kind you have is liquid, I'd be a little scared of what they had to do to get it that way!
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Excellent advice Sheila. Your take on soy is the same as what I have found. I believe the newer research shows that if you grew up eating soy it is protective to eat it as an adult. If you didn't, then it is not good for BC survivors. I also like your "it doesn't agree with me" methodology. Very diplomatic. Over the years I have used "I don't remember" to side step many pushy conversations. It's actually a lot of fun, though people may think you are loosing your marbles. Try it! "Was chemo terrible?" "I don't remember" "Are you finished with your treatments?" "I don't remember" .0
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Dawne-Hope-We have had a lot of discussion about soy. It is such a controversial topic. I personally do not like it, so I do not use it. But the main problem with soy is making sure the source is non GMO. Soy is the most genetically motified crop planted and these GMO's are proving to be terrible health hazards. For one of the best articles I have found about soy, including a very well rounded opinion on the relationship with breast cancer, read this: http://obs.usana.com/Main/supportCenterIndex?groupId=1&locale=en&nolog=1
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Designermom: LOL!
Dawnehope: I love that you have found this site! There was a recent report that came out that shows what brands are safer and what brands are not. Most soy products that aren't organic (most) are full of awful stuff for everyone, not just women who have had BC. I am not a fan of Mercola as I find his site kind of bombastic and self promoting. Try going to LifeExtensions.com which has lots of the latest health info and pros and cons regarding diet and supplements as I think they offer a more rounded opinion on things and although yes, they sell excellent supplements, their main efforts are about our health not self promotion.
I would be very scared of coconut oil that can be squirted out of a bottle!
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I would like a good converstation-stopper like"I don't remember."
But there are a few Stepford Patients around me who are always saying, "does your doctor know you do that?" Like there there is a whole authoritarian system on a track and you stick with the current official program or you will get into trouble. I can't believe the number of people who parrot what there doctors say without checking.
Have people been that trained not to think for themselves?
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When do you think if ever that the United States will ban gentically modified food sources? At least in Europe producers have to list it like an additive: I found this when reading about soy lecithin :
Because of the EU-requirement to declare additions of allergens in foods, in addition to regulations regarding genetically modified crops, a gradual shift to other sources of lecithin (e.g., sunflower oil) is taking place.
maybe we need to start writing our congressmen as concerned breast cancer survivors...just a thought-
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mollyann: I think most people do not think for themselves! I have never been a follower, though, always researching everything and driving my dr's crazy, lol.
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But there are a few Stepford Patients around me who are always saying, "does your doctor know you do that?" Like there there is a whole authoritarian system on a track and you stick with the current official program or you will get into trouble. I can't believe the number of people who parrot what there doctors say without checking.
Have people been that trained not to think for themselves?
mollyann, apparently so, sadly enough! One of my friends who had stage IIa IDC several years ago (dx at age 36; so far NED after chemo/lumpectomy/rads/Tamox) shuts out all the nutritition info I tell her and parrots back things her doctor and oncological nutritionist (who is an idiot) told her.
I told her a while back about a study (can't remember now which one, but after I told her about it, I emailed her the link and never heard a thing back from her). Just recently, she excited called me about this "great new study" her doctor told her about. Um, it was exactly what I had already told her about, but since it was only me, a lowly peon without an MD next to my name, it went in one ear and out the other... but since her precious DOCTOR told her the exact same info, it must be gospel truth. Grrrr!!!
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crunchypoodle: I so know what you mean. I just try and put stuff out there here on the boards that I visit and sometimes if I post a couple of times, someone will finally look into it and they always wonder why their dr's don't know about it but I have to let go having any control--if someone takes the initiative then I have helped at least one person. I figured out along time ago that no dr. is going to care about my health as much as I do and you just have to be your own advocate.
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I don't think anyone should do anything they aren't comfortable with- BUT I do think people should know that those earlier studies on soy are mostly considered to have been discredited by this more recent one- http://www.breastcancer.org/tips/nutrition/new_research/20091208.jsp . In theory this study does not depend on whether or not people ate soy when they were young, but only whole soy foods (good) vs isolated soy proteins or isoflavones (bad). The nutritionist at my oncs office thinks it's ok, and possibly beneficial, in reasonable amounts. I eat soy. But I was also raised eating a lot of tofu, etc, so that makes it an easier call for me.
"The study reviewed here found that Chinese women diagnosed with breast cancer who ate a diet rich in soy foods had a lower risk of dying of breast cancer and a lower risk of breast cancer coming back (recurrence) compared to women diagnosed with breast cancer who didn't eat a lot of soy. "
This article speculates that the reason might be partially the soy and partially what it's replacing- ie, people who eat more soy eat less meat.
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Thank you Crunchy for the info on coconut oil. It says right on the label that it should be solid under 76 degrees. My kitchen is almost never that hot so I guess I better set it in hot water. 0
