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  • DesignerMom
    DesignerMom Member Posts: 730
    edited January 2011

    Anyone's naturopath have an opinion on this new study?  It says that CoQ10 increases breast cancer in post menopausal women.  Any thoughts?

    http://foodforbreastcancer.com/news/coenzyme-q10-(coq10)-might-increase-risk-of-postmenopausal-breast-cancer 

    On a totally unrelated matter.  I have been having an incredibly itchy, dry scalp since finishing chemo and rads.  I tried all kinds of things and nothing worked.  Someone recommended this home remedy and it has worked like a charm.  Old fashioned Listerine mouthwash!  Come to find, Listerine has essential oils as active ingredients:  eucalyyptus, menthol, thyme.  I just put a capful on dry hair and rubbed it in and left it there while I bathed.  Then I just washed my hair as usual.  Who knew??

  • Maya2
    Maya2 Member Posts: 244
    edited January 2011

    Well I sure didn't. Where's that old bottle of Listerine?!

  • painterly
    painterly Member Posts: 266
    edited January 2011

    Designer Mom,

    That is so interesting. I found lemon juice worked also. What kind of shampoo do you use?

    Glenis

  • jessamine
    jessamine Member Posts: 123
    edited January 2011

    Claire82 - I'm a little late, but I thought I'd chime in anyway. I started taking fish oil a few years pre-dx and I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say it changed my life (for the better!) in improvement in mood and pain levels (I have other issues too). I really recommend it. If it's heavy metals you're worried about, any high quality brand will have them removed. Check the labels. I take Nordic Naturals which are EXPENSIVE but high quality and concentrated. Be sure to check the amount of EPA and DHA and not just the mgs on the front of the bottle- this only tells you the quantity of fish oil and some brands have very low amounts of the actual stuff you want! I was told to take a brand with at least 750mgs of EPA/DHA combined.

    Medicinal mushrooms have been shown to fight cancer by strengthening the immune system- I consider this one of the number one things I'm doing to fight the cancer directly. I would not skip this! They are totally harmless and many many people consider them extremely beneficial.

     http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/29068.php

    "A fully functional immune response is critical to the recognition and elimination of tumor cells. The increased incidence of spontaneous tumors in immunosuppressed individuals indicates that the immune system provides a significant mechanism for resistance against cancer. Several major immune stimulating substances have been isolated from Reishi that have extraordinary effects on the maturation, differentiation and proliferation of many kinds of immune cells. Reishi is a proven potent activator of interferon, interleukins, tumor necrosis factor (TNF), natural killer cells (NK), T lymphocytes, tumor-infiltrating lymphocytes (TIL's) and lymphokine activated killer cells (LAK). The spontaneous regression of some tumors is usually explained as a phenomenon of the individual's own immune system attacking the tumor burden." 

    This article focuses on Reishi but there are lots of kinds with their own special benefits that are all good, and newer studies are showing the benefit of switching every few months.

  • DesignerMom
    DesignerMom Member Posts: 730
    edited January 2011

    painterly-  As I am developing my own line of bath products, I am my own little guinea pig.  Right now I am testing an Omega3 Hemp shampoo which is wonderful, very moisturizing.  I would definitely try to stay away from any that have Parabens, phthalates or sodium lauryl sulfate.

  • Janeluvsdogs
    Janeluvsdogs Member Posts: 36
    edited January 2011

    Designermom,

    What a great venture! I can see you filling little bottles in your pretty orange lab coat. You go, girl!

    Can I submit a product idea?  Can you create a jar of those little pads that clean your skin with an exfoliating solution ? 

  • Valgirl
    Valgirl Member Posts: 28
    edited January 2011

    Anyone ever use Beta Glucan for immune support?  If so, what product do you buy.   I am trying to decide on the best supplements to take.  I used Beta Glucan before when I was trying to avoid a hysterectomy due to Uterine Fibroids ( I did avoid it) but can't remember the source I bought from.  Dr. Weil's site suggests LifeShield Immunity instead of the more expensive Beta Glucan.   Thanks for any information.

  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 166
    edited January 2011

    Designer Mom- Thanks for the tip on the Listerine. Nothing has helped me with itchiness, but that might just do the trick. Plus, it might make my hair shine a bit more. All the "organic" brands that I've tried (currently using Nature's Gate) don't make my hair shine like more commerical brands do, so hoping it helps with that as well....

  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 166
    edited January 2011

    Crunchy- Thanks for the update on Apricot Kernel Oil. It's amazing for skin, so I am glad that it doesn't cause the cyanide reaction.

  • DesignerMom
    DesignerMom Member Posts: 730
    edited January 2011

    Jane-  I think that is why my launch has been delayed.....I keep coming up with too many great new product ideas!  I need to edit it down to fewer....at least to begin with.  I'll tell you my face cleansing technique.  I bought a dozen white cotton washcloths.  I use my cleansing milk on damp skin, then wipe it off with a hot, wet, wrungout washcloth.  I follow with a spritz of rose water and my face cream.  Depending on the condition of skin, I drop a couple drops of essential oil in the cream in my palm (chamomile for sensitive, rose for dryness, neroli for balancing).  After rubbing in the cream, I cover my face with the hot, damp washcloth and breeeeathe in the flowers.  It's well worth the few minutes it takes.

    Any of you Listerine guinea pigs, let me know if it works for you.  I think it may have also removed a bunch of build-up from other products, my hair seems softer.

  • vivre
    vivre Member Posts: 881
    edited January 2011

    The listerine idea intrigued me so I decided to look at the ingredients. I was concerned that it might have one of the dangerous halides like chlorine or flouride in it. Looks like it is safe:

    http://www.healthguidance.org/entry/5898/1/Listerine-Mouthwash-Benefits.html

    ValGirl-Beta Glucan is indeed a great antioxidant. On the iodine yahoo group, some women have mentioned that iodine got rid of their fibroids. Also, one of my docs did a study with I3C and that helped his patients with fibroids.

  • Estepp
    Estepp Member Posts: 2,966
    edited January 2011

    Ladies, can I buy the 100% coconut oil in my grocery store... or do I need to get it at my health food store? They both say 100% pure??

  • Claire82
    Claire82 Member Posts: 490
    edited January 2011

    Designermom - i sent my naturopath the article on CoQ10 and she took me off it.

  • Suzanne3131
    Suzanne3131 Member Posts: 2,000
    edited January 2011
    Estepp:  Be careful about the word "pure"...especially when you are looking at oils.  It is a word generally used to describe lower grade oils (for example, products labelled Pure Olive Oil are a very low quality product)  Look for words like "Cold Pressed", "Unrefined", "Virgin", "Organic"....which you might be able to find in your regular grocery if they are good about carrying quality "health foods" (I do have to go to the health food store, since my grocer carries almost nothing that I buy!)
  • MariannaLaFrance
    MariannaLaFrance Member Posts: 166
    edited January 2011

    Another supplement question for you ladies. The only supplement which came recommended by my Breast Surgeon was Evening Primrose Oil. Do any of you take it? Results? ThoughtS?

  • Sherryc
    Sherryc Member Posts: 4,503
    edited January 2011

    Estepp I had to buy mine at the health food store as my local grocery store does not carry much in the way of natual healthy stuff.

  • my560sel
    my560sel Member Posts: 399
    edited January 2011

    Laura, I bought mine at the grocery store. It is "unrefined, 100% organic coconut oil. I was able to buy a much larger jar of the same brand as they had in the health food store for much less.

    Terri

  • impositive
    impositive Member Posts: 102
    edited January 2011

    Beta Glucans are a good immune "potentiater". That is how the company I buy mine from  discibes them.  They hold a patent on the micronization because they say our cells have receptors for them but most brands are too big to fit into the receptor.  The company is NSC. The president of the company is Frank Jordan. He has a radio show on XM radio called "Healthy, Wealthy and Wise."  They're really expensive but right now they have them 50% off.

    http://www.nsc24.com/nsc100.htm

  • jessamine
    jessamine Member Posts: 123
    edited January 2011

    I sent my naturopath the article about coq10 as well, and she said this-

    "I find this study's results interesting to say the least. All other studies have found an inverse relation or at least a neutral effect. They also found that HRT users had higher levels of CoQ10, which should be further studied. They do question if intracellular levels would be different? And if high circulating levels are a marker of inflammation related to the HRT. Would be interesting to see if they did a follow-up study assessing inflammation markers. And also that women with low vit E had increased risk, which corresponds to the inflammation theory. I copied the study below for you in case you hadn't read it. Definitely makes me think, but not convinced of anything with this study (at least not yet). "

     She also forwarded the study. It is extremely jargon-y and dense, and I am really tired today, but I will check it out later.

  • jessamine
    jessamine Member Posts: 123
    edited January 2011
    marianna- my understanding is that evening primrose is estrogenic and NOT recommended for er+ folks.
  • DesignerMom
    DesignerMom Member Posts: 730
    edited January 2011

    jessamine-  Thanks for the info on primrose and the feedback from your doctor on COQ10.  You said you copied the original study, but I didn't find it in your post.  I would like to read the study as I only found the summary. 

  • mollyann
    mollyann Member Posts: 148
    edited January 2011

    High CoQ10 levels may be the body's compensation mechanism to fight against breast cancer. You can't assume a causal relationship just because something is present with a disease.

    Researchers at the University of Miami and a drug company have submitted patented forms of CoQ10 to the FDA for approval as a drug.

  • luv_gardening
    luv_gardening Member Posts: 362
    edited January 2011

    Hi Mollyann, Other studies have shown that blood and tissues from women with BC have less or no CoQ10 so I wonder if they checked if the study participants were taking CoQ10 supps? I read somewhere they didn't know if study participants had taken vitamin supplements that might affect the CoQ10 levels but no mention of CoQ10 supps.

    Can anyone get access to the full text to find out? The full text link is on this abstract page;

    http://cebp.aacrjournals.org/content/19/9/2351.abstract 

  • jessamine
    jessamine Member Posts: 123
    edited January 2011

    designer mom- oops. tired. what i meant to say was- my person emailed me the text but it's super long- i can msg it to people or if you all think i should i can post it here but it's LONG! D.mom I'll send it to you now.

    mollyann and sheila, I agree, I think probably something is going on here that is skewing the results.

  • mollyann
    mollyann Member Posts: 148
    edited January 2011

    After reading the abstract in question, I don't think the study is relevant. No amount of full text data increases its relevance. In skimming pubmed.com for CoQ10 +breast cancer, I did come into another interesting reason not to make an association into a cause via blood levels. In the study below the tumor tissue has less CoQ10 than the healthy surrounding tissue.

    Bottom line is, I don't think any conclusions about our treatment should be based on either of these studies. We need more studies.---------------

    Clin Biochem. 2000 Jun;33(4):279-84.

    Coenzyme Q10 concentrations and antioxidant status in tissues of breast cancer patients.

    Portakal O, Ozkaya O, Erden Inal M, Bozan B, Koşan M, Sayek I.

    Department of Biochemistry, The Medical School of Osmangazi University, Eskişehir, Turkey. portakal@ada.net.tr

    Abstract

    OBJECTIVES: An increasing amount of experimental and epidemiological evidence implicates the involvement of oxygen derived radicals in the pathogenesis of cancer development. Oxygen derived radicals are able to cause damage to membranes, mitochondria, and macromolecules including proteins, lipids and DNA. Accumulation of DNA damages has been suggested to contribute to carcinogenesis. It would, therefore, be advantageous to pinpoint the effects of oxygen derived radicals in cancer development.

    DESIGN AND METHODS: In the present study, we investigated the relationship between oxidative stress and breast cancer development in tissue level. Breast cancer is the most common malignant disease in Western women. Twenty-one breast cancer patients, who underwent radical mastectomy and diagnosed with infiltrative ductal carcinoma, were used in the study. We determined coenzyme Q10 (Q) concentrations, antioxidant enzyme activities (mitochondrial and total superoxide dismutase (SOD), glutathione peroxidase (GSH-Px), catalase), and malondialdehyde (MDA) levels in tumor and surrounding tumor-free tissues.

    RESULTS: Q concentrations in tumor tissues significantly decreased as compared to the surrounding normal tissues (p < 0.001). Higher MDA levels were observed in tumor tissues than noncancerous tissues (p < 0.001). The activities of MnSOD, total SOD, GSH-Px and catalase in tumor tissues significantly increased (p < 0.001) compared to the controls.

    CONCLUSIONS: These findings may support that reactive oxygen species increased in malignant cells, and may cause overexpression of antioxidant enzymes and the consumption of coenzyme Q10. Increased antioxidant enzyme activities may be related with the susceptibility of cells to carcinogenic agents and the response of tumor cells to the chemotherapeutic agents. Administration of coenzyme Q10 by nutrition may induce the protective effect of coenzyme Q10 on breast tissue.

  • Estepp
    Estepp Member Posts: 2,966
    edited January 2011

    Thank you ladies , on your info on the oils.

    I looked and they all say cold pressed.... and no other ingredient is in any of them. You make me look closer. Thank you !!!

  • MBJ
    MBJ Member Posts: 3,671
    edited January 2011

    Mollyann:  thanks for the COQ10 info.  It is  part of the many supplements my integrative dr recommends and I can't imagine he would have me take something that wasn't good for me as he has been with me before and through the BC diagnosis.

  • makingway
    makingway Member Posts: 465
    edited January 2011

    I use Chia seed oil for my omega 3's instead of fish oil. Our oceans are depleted enough without this demand. The latest trend was for 'Krill' which is caught in arctic waters. Krill is the whales sole food source.

  • MBJ
    MBJ Member Posts: 3,671
    edited January 2011

    makingway:  good point, although I use both depending on if I make a shake or not on any given day.  Certainly don't want to do anything to take away a food source any more then we already do.

  • jessamine
    jessamine Member Posts: 123
    edited January 2011
    makingway- The ocean depletion is really a serious thing. I couldn't agree more. The fact is, however, that fish oil has components and an effectiveness that no plant based form does. When I started taking fish oil about 5 years ago, it was the first non-vegetarian substance I'd purposely ingested in 15 years, and I did not/do not take it lightly, but nothing else worked. I suffered from depression and anxiety which are completely kept at bay by the fish oil, and I assume it's equally effective on levels I can't track as easily. It is possible to get capsules made from the waste parts of wild caught salmon, which the canning plants would otherwise throw away.