MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN 40-60ish
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Lovely petrified wood, elimar. I have a couple of nice peices, and i always think: Time & experience. But I will take your strength and healing, and add to that.
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Eli- I think it is picking up the tubular. That or I just hit the lottery..lol. Right now I am kind of scattered and may have hit the wrong button.
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Tomboy, I'm not too New Age, so I only know what I read in a National Enquirer (and who even admits that?) some years ago. It was when my mom was on a ventilator in the long term care hospital, so I took her a nice palm sized chunk. All I know is that the drugs were making her have fidgety hand movements and she was bunching up the sheets, so when she got to touch the rock, it gave her something else to do with her hands.
Oh, and she was a Stage IV LC patient with pneumonia who managed to get off the ventilator after 2 mos....
Must have been the petrified wood.
Please know that I am joking.
(Apologies to my Sedona-based sistahs.)
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Oddswinner-- I"m still waiting on my BRCA results. Two more weeks. But I know I don't want radiation, so this is the only other option.
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Hi ladies, haven't been here in a bit. Now that we have the horses home in our own barn we are very busy. I don't mind the work at all. It is good for me.
Been dealing with the whole bone loss in my jaw from Zometa. Had my first teeth scaling last week. The worst part was the 6 shots prior too. Three more rounds to go. Had to have one tooth cut off up in the gum because they were afraid I wouldn't heal if they pulled it. Got 2 new crowns and some bridge work. Two more rounds of that coming. Thank The Lord for Xanax.
We kept the grand kids over night and they shared their germs. Ended up with a bad sinus infection. Way too much fun for me.
Hubby is taking me to see Toby Kieth on Saturday. Looking forward to it. Taking the 16 year old to Pennslvania in July. So things are looking up!
Had a few bad days when I realized this month makes 2 years of stage four. Scares the hell out of me. Hope everyone is having a great summer!
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Good luck to you, I don't blame you for not wanting radiation. For me chemo before (my last on the 19th of June) and after surgery it seems like enough, one day at a time. I can't think that far ahead, I'm wasting life now if I do. And there's just too much living to be done!
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Oddswinner-- thank you! I agree there is too much living to be done! One day at a time!
Btw.. just found out I am BRCA negative! Yay! I'm very happy about that! I get to keep my ovary!
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Yay for the lone ovary!!
Dianarose, I sympathize with you for the bone loss in your jaw. I am afraid thats what they are going to have to with me, too. I lost a bunch of teeth over the years due to no dental insurance and underemployment for many years. Then the clincher was i got mugged and kicked in the teeth, not in NY! Sacramento. Anyway, I have done three prolia shots since treatment because a year and a half of treatment caused rapid bone loss. And so, when I started to notice that one of my few remaining teeth is seeming to need attention, I am not doing my next shot, which i think was due in a couple of months. I am sure, because I can feel it, how thin my jawbone is there. but I have been deathly afraid of osteonecrosis of the jaw! That's the last thing I need! But then, I think I read here somewhere the other day, that ONJ is not as prevalent with prolia as they had originally thought.
but i don't know if that tooth of mine can be saved, and I am thinking they will do a similar thing to me as they did to you. I wish I could have a do-over with my whole life, knowing what I know know. Have fun with your summer plans,they sound great! And even tho i am only stage3c, i think I get what you say. I feel a little frisson of terror sometimes when i think it's been three years for me now.
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Dianarose--I can imagine how busy horses keep you.But I bet it's a happy busy!2 years of stage 4, I can see where that would make for mixed feelings.
MizMimi--HOORAY for BRCA negative!
Tomboy--congrats no 3 years, and again I can see the mixed feelings.
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Tomboy, Happy 3-year Cancerversary! Keep those cancer-free years comin'.
I am in the same boat as many of you Middies as far as dental woes. Only mine troubles are not from BC drugs, they have plagued me my whole life. For having so much work done, it is kind of amazing that I am only now facing the prospect of getting my first dental implant. Before, I never liked the sound of having a chunk of titanium in there but, now, seeing as how I have some titanium surgical clips courtesy of my lumpectomy and who knows how many little surgical staples in my Franken-colon...it does not seem like a big deal. Ditto on getting a procedure while unconscious...been there, slept through that. Not that I am looking forward to oral surgery, but in light of everything else it does not sound nearly as daunting anymore.
MixMimi, Congrats on passing your BRCA test. Is your ovary planning to celebrate?
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Hello again everyone!
Yes, my lone ovary is celebrating!! Woot! I am so glad it gets to stay! I did NOT want to deal with that on top of DBMX and reconstruction recovery!
I am a Dental Hygienist, so I can understand the problems you guys are having with your teeth. However, it is my understanding that the effects of radiation treatment to the chest, does not increase problems in the mouth/jaw area. It CAN affect swallowing, though. Totally different story when it comes to chemo.
I'm sorry about the dental problems, but implants, if placed by a experienced specialist (believe me, there are dentists who are not experienced in placement of implants who are trying it anyway!) should last and be a wonderful subsititute for a tooth.
Hugs!
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Per my dentist & periodontist - radiation does cause dry mouth (as does chemo) and they believe that's one of the major causes of dental problems even if the rads aren't aimed at the jaw. I had my first implant after a tooth broke off at the gum line when I took a bite of butter lettuce (Really!!). Hope the other 6 that show up as compromised on the X-rays stay in place.
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MinusTwo-- Hmm. Learn something every day I guess. Radiation induced xerostomia (dry mouth) is thought to be induced by head and neck radiation mostly. At least that was what I learned in my training. I had not heard that radiation damage can be caused in areas that are not in the radiation field.
Well... go with what your doctors say, of course! A new topic for me to research as well and see what updates and studies show.
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When I had gotten some extensive dental work about ten years ago, at one of los angel's best dental school, I remember when they looked in my mouth, they waved some other students and teachers over to see. They wanted others to see it, and when they were done, and I could speak again, I asked what they were looking at. Apparently, I have a huge number of extra salivary glands! How do they even know that? What do they look like?
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Tomboy, I'm guessing they were looking under your tongue where there is a nice cluster of glands and if you look in the mirror and lift your tongue a little you will see them.. Yours are probably really big and really fill up the space there under the tongue.
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MizMimi - I'm always open to new thoughts so I'll look forward to any updates you find. How nice to have a dental hygienst on board. My problem could also be that for the best part of a year I couldn't eat anything or drink much either - so the mouth just sat unused. No nausea, but horrible Big D and everything tasted like c*ap, I got my liquids from extra liters into my port at the infusion center.
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Minustwo, I hope they get you all straightened out soon, no more dental pain, work, or trauma, once you are done this time!
MizMimi, thanks! That would explain why one time when I was talking, I felt and saw some fine drops shoot about a foot out from me, and the only thing I had noticed is it had been a word, I don't remember which word, but my tongue had been curled up and back toward the back of my throat while might was open! My sister saw it! So then I practiced so I could do it at will, I guess for the day when somebody really obnoxious might get in my face. I had forgotten all about it. But I think now I am going to see if it still does, after chemo and treatment. I will come back and let everyone know. (Those people who might be hanging on the edge of their seats, wondering....) LOL
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During the hot, hot, summer a couple years ago, during my chemo time, I went out to an evening soccer game and found I had NO SALIVA whatsoever! Luckily, I had brought some water with me. It does make perfect sense that when we get (whatever kinds of) treatments that take the saliva away, it changes the whole Ph of the mouth and lets the bacteria get the upper hand in there. I had not thought of that, but looking back, my decay could have began during that time too. No one noticed because it was underneath a crown.
Oh, and I used Biotene, Act Dry Mouth Rinse, and saltwater quite a bit for chemo-mouth hygiene but all the benefits lasted only a short time. Like if I used Biotene at bedtime, by 3 a.m. (you know, when I was on the couch watching Law & Order reruns) my mouth was a dry gulch again.
Tomboy, I hear you, I had the same experience at a dental school where they all gathered 'round to gawk---I was in college at the time, yet getting two root canals done. I was born with bad teeth, soft enamel. I always say I would like to be reincarnated as a shark...they get rows and rows of new teeth. Now that is a fabulous deal!!!
Final comment...I was shocked to find out that A LOT of my friends (who have, at least, average teeth) all have crowns and some a bridge or two. I think we have hit on yet another plague of Middle Age. Even if you had a trouble-free youth, the dental woes start to crop up at this time of life. Then, multiply that out with our treatments and we are in trouble.
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We are falling apart...crowns, bridges, and hip replacement, I wonder what is next for me...Ugh!
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Interesting to read about falling apart. I was just telling my siblings today that since I am the youngest of 7 , they must have scraped the barrel and gave me all the leftovers as I seem to have inherited everything. Today I found out I have a start of a cataract. My mom had them at about my age and Tamoxifen also can cause them so who knows, but grrr. I also had my thyroid removed from a goiter( mom also had that), a partial hysterectomy from fibroids. then recently my ovaries removed. I also found out that the exostosis aka Tori on my gums are growing and I will soon have to think about having that ground down off my gums. UMMM OUCH!!! I hurt my elbow at work 10 yrs ago and the nerve in the elbow has been aching and aching a lot lately again so grrrrrrrr.. I am falling apart. I told my sister I am going to Sh******t... Frustrating!!!0 -
Greetings long lost buddies,
I haven't posted in awhile. For some reason, the notification setting of when there's a post on this board hasn't been showing up. I'm guessing it's operator error.
Two items:
1. My best BC buddy says I should get blood test markers (CA 127 or whatever) as my oncologist told me I need do nothing other than once a year have a mammo. She said I was very low risk. I read about it on BCO search function- thank you, BCO. What I want to know is cost and how easy or difficult is it for your GP to recommend it if you no longer are seeing an onc?
2. Ms.Mimi, I'm so surprised that you are having a BMX for DCIS especially when it's hormone positive (as opposed to triple negative etc.) and you are negative for BRCA. For what it's worth, I am so glad I preserved my healthy breast because at least I still have sexual stimulation for the healthy breast. At your age, are you willing to give up all breast stimulation? It may make the best sense for you because of a family history with some other genetic marker, but sometimes we go into breast cancer treatment overzealously because we so need peace of mind in the beginning. Later, if low recurrence prognosis, we can question our trade-offs. I am not telling you what to do. I completely believe every woman's BC journey is her own and she needs to do what is correct for her. FYI, you may find some of my blogs helpful. I too, had an augmentation years before BC and years after breast feeding to fix saggy and flacid. I woke up with a TE. I didn't have to wait. Also, I had a lift 3 mos. later. Warning. The lift hurts like a son-of-gun. I think it took a village to lift TweedleDee- I had an Alloderm sling also. TweedleNumb was a piece of cake. If I had it to do all over again... I would have delayed the lift. So soon after my MX, it really took a toll on me. Additionally, I was an extremely fit woman for age. Not overweight and getting the highest monetary bonuses at work for staying in shape. My blogs can found at www.rockthefoob.com if you are interested. All we can offer you here is insight into our personal journeys and 20/20 hindsight. We support you regardless of your informed decisions because none of us can tell you what's correct for you. Best of luck. We're here for you.
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Deborah - I push to have the CA27-29 test (for BC) run sporadically now that I'm finished with treatment. Sorry, i don't know the cost, but you should be aware it's only an indicator. My MO said I should never panic if those numbers go up since it's not known for pin-point accuracy. He would just order other tests if my numbers went up.
On the other issue - one breast or two for DCIS - thank heavens I had them both removed. I was negative for BRCA. However they found DCIS and lesions in the "good" breast that the scans hadn't showed. When I had recurrence in less than 2 years, the ALND surgery was minor compared to another MX. But deborah does have a point about losing sensation.
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Hi all!
I am new to the board, native New Englander transplanted to Maryland. I am 4 weeks post lx surgery waiting on my MO and RO appointments next week. All of this has thrown me for a loop! Looking forward to connecting!
Cheers!
~Midgie
And here's my cat ( of three) and a garden picture...
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Deb2012, Since it is a simple blood test (and many of the early stage BCO women DO get tumor markers done as part of their regular follow-up and mentioned they had ins. coverage on it,) I don't see how it could hurt to have it done. While it is true that sometimes you could have an elevation that was meaningless as far as the return of cancer, usually the Docs do not act based on just one test with high markers...you would be followed to see if you showed an upward spiral of the numbers and that could be an indicator of the return of BC, at which point the other tests and scans would be warranted.
My doc does not do TMs for early stage BC, and I never pushed to have it done but if I were Grade 3 like you were I might have asked for it. My feeling is that Grade 3 bears watching more closely and more frequently. There are two tests: CA 27-29 and CA 15.
Welcome, Midgiemoon!
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I didn't know about the CA 15-3. Thanks for the heads up.
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MinusTwo, as a fellow 3B'er I wanted to add that my doc runs 3 separate TMs before each appointment. I get the CA 15-3, CA 125 and one other one. He has explained that the TMs are somewhat unreliable and can give both false positives and false negatives. He still thinks that with a 3B DX, the additional info is worth the potential downside.
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Thanks Momine. It should be a very interesting appointment with my MO Thursday.
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Momine, It does seem that the doctors use the TM tests more often for the Stage III's (and Stage IV's, of course, for treatment monitoring.) I think it is somewhat of a grey area to run the TM tests on Stage 1 & II women but, as I mentioned, if those early-stagers are Grade 3, why not check the markers along with the standard blood work?
What I hear a lot is that whether a woman gets an "early discovery" of recurrence, like it first showing up on TM test; or whether recurrence is detected later by symptoms, is that either one usually gets the same treatment procedures anyway. With this thinking, some docs don't see the point of doing the TMs. I do not understand that, and to me it defies common sense. I would think that to catch a recurrence as early as possible would be paramount in treating it, even if it were Stage IV mets, much the same as early detection usually leads to a more favorable outcome. My Stage III-turned Stage IV BFF got poor follow-up, no adjuvant chemo and no TMs monitored. Pain sent her back to the doc, and mets were discovered. While it is true that monitoring could not have stopped the mets, perhaps her recurrence could have been detected before it got painful, when the lesions were smaller.
It seems like common sense that small recurrence lesions would be easier to beat down into NED stage---but this might be faulty reasoning. We have all heard some case stories of large lesions/tumors shrinking down with chemotherapy, and of smaller lesions/tumors not responding. That brings us to the question of "does size matter" in the case of recurrence? Does early detection matter? If it does, then TMs should be a part of the routine follow-up. How big do the lesions have to be before they will actually show up in the blood anyway? How small and early can they get detected?
(Side note: While I don't get TMs done for my BC folow-up, I do get a tumor marker test as part of my CRC follow-up. It is called CEA, and that can also rise in the presence of BC, but it is not one of the main ones we have already mentioned.)
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Hi Middies,
Thank you for the marker info. I will contact my GP this week or my former onc's office to see what's involved with scheduling the CA blood work.
MinusTwo: How did what happened to you happen? I must have loss of cognitive function from previous AIs. Checking for comprehension here:
1. Prior to Feb. 2011, you have some type of BC (Her2+?) at the DCIS stage.
2. Feb 2011 You have a BMX. No Sentinel node involvement in either breast and a surprise finding of a second BC (of some type). TE's are installed.
3. Sept. 2011 You have implants installed.
4. Mar. 2013 the nightmare begins all over again. Even with a prophylactic BMX and zero node involvement, the SAME BC came back? How did that happen? It was a recurrence of the same BC? Or your body just got super accomplished in growing cancer and decided to grow some new crap to round out the menu so-to-speak?
My onc did not only a snb at the time of my MX, but removed 3 other lymphs for good measure- all clean. What is interesting to me is, during a MX/BMX they always check the tissue for cancer and run prelim lab results before they sew us up again. Didn't they spot your second "surprise" cancer in the disguised "healthy" breast during surgery? If so, I wonder why they didn't take out a few more nodes for testing?
I'd plotz if after a prophylactic BMX and zero node involvement and I assume regular mammos, I grew more BC and it was the SAME BC from the original DCIS? I thought that's point of DCIS. It hadn't spread yet. It's like some kind of immaculate recurrence. I learn more every time I come to these boards!
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Deborah - you're sort of right. Original diagnosis was DCIS. They don't check HER2 with DCIS. So I had BMX in 2011 and yes, they did take sentinal nodes - 2-4 on each side were all clean. There was nothing else there at the time. No other treatment needed. I had totally clear scans before & after reconstruction - even as late as 3 months before I discovered the bump under my collarbone. Just about 2 years to the month from original surgery, the new ULS biopsy showed IDC. So not really the same type of BC. And chest wall instead of breast (which were gone). My BS & MO were both speechless. I believe they've called it a recurrence instead of mets because it's in the same general area, but it works the same as mets - a micro "dot" is suspected of escaping during surgery & mutating, OR a new cancer took root & it grew very rapidly. With 2nd diagnosis they did test for HER2, which is why I got immediately routed to neo-adjuvant chemo. I did not have a pCR from the first chemo so after ALND surgery I had a second kind of chemo even though surgery got it all again. Then rads. All treatment the 2nd time was based on HER2+ and negative ER/PR, the quickness of the recurrence, the size of the tumors, the fact that TCHP did not knock it out, etc.
I honestly believe my BS took everything she could find & test in the original surgery, and extra margins at that, which is why I couldn't have nipple sparing. She was almost in tears when I told her about the recurrence. MO was hoping it was a leaky implant, but since I had cohesive gels I knew that wasn't the case. Just the luck of the draw I guess. Anyway, you can see why I'm a little gun shy when someone starts saying 'no tests needed'.
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