thread for middle age to older Christian women.
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Dear Jo!!! I am so sorry to hear that you are not feeling well right now. I am lifting you up in prayer right now. I so understand your worry, but don't go there!! There are many viruses going around right now and my sinuses are killing me as I am writing this!!! I am also praying for your grandchildren who are still seeking and in a desert right now. I am asking Jesus to soften their hearts!!!With you as their role model, they will come to know the Lord again. Our LOrd is very patient and forgiving. Our prayers never go unanswered, just not in our timing, but HIS!!! God bless you and I wish you peace and rest as you heal!!!
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My thoughts and prayers are with you all tonight. Jo, Rocket and Kindergarten, hope you both find relief from your allergies. That can be tire you in itself.
Jo, I am also praying for your grandchildren. I know that is a great burden but thankful God gave them a grandmother who loves Him and not only prays but petitions for prayers on their behalf.
I am so thankful for each of you! Goodnight!
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One more thing...a new study of 180 (small) came out yesterday...I heard about it on XM radio, but can't find it (tho I haven't looked hard)....
Showed that 90ish% (if I remember right) of women with BC in the study had low vitamin D.
Ya know I really think that was my issue. I lived in Alaska, didn't get any real sun, had a baby, thyroid stopped working, nursed the baby but my right boob never produced as much as my left, and often felt like it was "clogged" in the exact spot my cancer showed up....I'm sure (at least today! lol) that it's all linked.
anyway, if anyone comes across it in the next few days could you please post a link? (I'm packing for a big camping trip...and whew, SO MUCH WORK!!)
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Just popping in to say Hi Ladies, been away from the board for quite a while but I started coming back looking up about Arimidex cuz its been giving me jipp. Started on it beginning of this year and was OK up til about 2 months ago. WHoaa aching joints and peripheral neuropathy cranked up. Hopefully these SideFX will abate. God Knows and He does! What is this life compared to eternity!
Jo big hugs. It is SOOOOOO hard with our loved ones when they do stuff and/or absolutely WONT listen, whether Hubby Wife Brother Sister Mother Father Kids Grandies whatever, theyre all so precious we just need to keep them in our prayers. We all have differing ministries (if all were an eye where would be the hearing? ) and theres a time to be soft a time to be firm and dare I say it sometimes its either tickle them with a feather or hit them with a brick. Plainly, God will use both methods....
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh. KJVThe hardest thing to come to grips with is sometimes just letting it go if theyre gonna be obdurate, knowing "a man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". At the end of the day its the Holy Spirit who woo's. Of course you will know all this but just encouraging you all the same.
My oldest brother was like a cat backed in a corner claws out hissing at anything that even SLIGHTLY suggested Christian things and for YEARS. Over the last 4 or 5 he has softened considerably because not only have I firmly but respectfully stood my ground with him over evil, and erroneous issues, the Christians in our family have prayed and prayed. I have stated to him right up front. The worst thing you can do is come to the Lord just because I said so. I love you dearly and I will never stop wanting you to come to the Lord, but you must come genuinely, because you have worked this out for yourself. He's now open to hearing all sorts of stuff because the days are sure getting evil.
I believe with all my heart that God not only supplies the Holy Spirit but He expects us to use our brains. So when someone is not hiding behind the typical smokescreens of irrationality or somesuch, you can say "come let us reason together"...
Isa 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. KJV
Bless you all
Musical
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Great posts Musical and Jo. You ladies are always so full of wisdom.
As for the Arimidex, I am suffering greatly as a result. I totally agree with the statement that dealing with the side effects of Arimidex are better than the side effects of BC. Amen to that!0 -
Hey Ladies well its great to pop in. I often wonder too about how you are Jo. :-). I hope I didnt sound condescending in any way as I did mean it as a supportive encouraging thing. I always remember you saying to me I wasnt shy in being up front or something, and yes that holds true, but hopefully its well peppered with graciousness at the appropriate time. I really do see with my brother primarily its what God has done first and I would come a very faaar and distant second. Only by His grace. Believe me, the ructions between us were of preposterous proportions! I really believe in the end instead of protecting the boat from rocking, sometimes LOL it needs a jolly good shake! Its not nice at the time, but far in the distance it actually pays off.
Rocket I remember you too. and big BIG hugs with the suffering the SideFX. As we all know everyones metabolism et al are so different that what can dramatically help one may do absolutely nothing for someone else. Because I had this dreadful peripheral neuropthy b4 BC I can tell how its doing with various treatments and things I've been on. I know the Arim cranked it up severely.. Doc trying me on Nortriptyline which Ive been on a week and I have to say so far its helping quite a lot with the notorious joint pain, neuropathy (burning feet), but giving me SFX like headache, sore throat, slight constipation and slight fluid retention. The last one I'll have to watch like a hawk. Its the reason I went off the Amitriptyline ( its very close relative). Are you gettting the notorious joint pain? Its sooo awful. Jo did your SFX subside or were you able to just out up with it, or did you get some meds that really helped?
Jo, you MAY remember sometime back I was on the VIT D threads and I think you may have been too. In NZ we get 50,000 IU D3 Called CAL DeForte. Its the real deal colecalciferole (sp?) the good one. Its absolutely over the top to get them as supplements from the Chemist. Cost you an arm a leg and a years wages so to speak.
I talked to Doc and BINGO we have this lovely big dose and its funded so it costs very little on script. Praise God for my Doc as hes bent over backwards for me. He also listens and since I looked into the VIT D3 thing and explained it to him, hes allowed me to have 1 of these every 2 weeks, over the winter lol but it somehow sorta got extended throguh summer as well :-) A girl has to be careful with lymphoedema and all..
He balked a little at the D3 tests as they are supposedly very expensive here to do. I said (gently but firmly LOL) listen, the cops dont mind pulling drunks outta the Auckland streets every Friday/Sat Night and taxi them home or "sober them up in prison over night", all at the tax payers expense, costing hundreds if not thousands every weekend, and here a cancer patient gets to feel shes bludging off the system for a VIT D test ???? Hehe regardless to say I don't have many probs now getting tests. In fact he ordered one for me last week off his own bat. Be interesting to see what it is. I'm still yet to 'educate' him on the accepted levels.
I'm not "alternative" and as such, I dont believe some of the things in that forum should be included there, but whatever. I think VIT D3 is a case in point. It seems a lot of people are waking up about it and how sunscreen lotions are actually counterproductive. Not saying you should get burnt either, but this stuff is bad. Common sense should prevail. We've all been told how bad the sun is. Well its not! I wont use sunscreens at all because of the nanoparticles in them as well as butyl this butyl that. Petroleum galore! I looked at an old one I had thinking it wouldnt have all this toxic stuff and ha, that'll be the day. It was full of it.
Bless you all and may God be your strength.
Musical
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I could really use your prayers. So much has happened so quickly since my diagnosis last July. I am trying to adjust to my son's starting their lives as young men with their part time jobs and college coming up. My husband will also be home for 45 days next month. That's more than he has been here in the past 4 years all together with his work. That will be an adjustment and then he will be gone again.
I think the most difficult thing I'm dealing with now is my gyn found a mass in my remaining breast in my follow exam from my hysterectomy/ooph surgery. He was concerned enough to move my appointment with my surgeon up to next Mon from Aug.
You know how it is when something kind of hangs over you and it makes everything else seem bigger than it is? That's where I think I am right now. I want to have a proper focus......one that pleases God. Today was just hard. It almost feels like it's hormonal. I was just very blah and could cry easily that's not like me at all.
Jo Your post encouraged me to share this when I read that you don't usually ask for prayer for yourself...I've always been the same way. I thought about how I am learning to not just be a caregiver to others but to myself also. One way I can do that is sharing my concerns with like minded believers who will pray for me. One of many lessons from cancer....and one I'm still working on.
Thank you all.....You are all in my prayers...
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fondak, I will pray for you. My heart is touched by your post. I will have to wait on HIM as to what to pray but I'll be praying.
One of the greatest men of the NT made no bones about asking for prayer for himslef in a number of instances. Paul. I'm glad you have asked.
Musical
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Heavenly Father, please grant Your grace and peace to Fondak this very minute. Help her to feel Your presence in a very real and tangible way. I ask Father that You would help her with this adjustment period in her life. Help her to see the positive in the fact that she's raised sons to become men. As mothers it's a difficult process to watch our baby birds fly the nest, but a necessary one for both our growth and theirs. It doesn't come without grief however, and I ask that You would help her deal emotionally with that. I also ask Lord that Fondak's husband would be extremely supportive of her while he is at home and that their relationship would grow and strengthen. Mostly Father I ask that You would protect my dear sister from any new cancer. Please give her strength while she waits to see the surgeon. Remove her anxious thoughts and allow her to rest well. Bless her Lord and be her refuge. In Your Son's most holy and precious Name I pray...
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Rocket Thank you so much for the prayer. I have felt very encouraged today. I just had to get me focus where it needed to be on God and His promises. I was wonderful to be reminded of the blessings I've been given in raising my sons and I so felt His presence today.
Musical Thank you for the reminder about Paul also. Just the mention of his name helps put everything into focus. Oh, how he reminded us to "count it all joy" with all he endured. Such a wonderful example of living a life of love for his savior and for God's glory.
I read your posts this morning and was encouraged throughout the day with that and getting back into God's word. The last week or so if I sat down I would fall asleep since I started Aromasin and it has been hard to concentrate.
Jo Thanks for your prayers. I can't express how much it means to have someone who understands where you are coming from praying for you.
I just love you all. I hope everyone's allergies are improving and ya'll are keeping cool. I got in the car today and it 107 here!
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Well Big hugs fondak about the hormonal stuff going on. The reality is when every ounce of oestogen is squashed in our bodies, then things are physically in an unnatural state and turmoil. Im going through this very thing with Arimidex and did also with Tamox. It is sooo so hard sometimes. You know you should be rising above it all somehow and being strong, then suddenly something trips you up and you lose it or something but you just get up and carry on again. I guess those of us who go through this nightmare really do understand each others pain, even though all our circumstances are unique.
May God bless you and give you strength. A supernatural strength and deep peace in the face of these troublous times. I especially pray about this mass in the breast and the dreaded wait that we've all had to endure to one degree or another.....that God will bear you up at this time and carry you in His loving arms! Amen and Amen.
Praise God for His word, which is eternal and settled in heaven (Psa 119:89 ) which is able to save our souls (Jas 1.28) which nourishes, teaches, corrects and encourages us to grow in the things of God.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path (Psa 119:105)
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Fondak, 107? that equates to 41.66667Degr !!!! Y ' Ouch thats too hot for me!!!.....I cant even begin to imagine the suffering of those with lymphoedema. Over here (NZ) we are mid winter. Brrrrrr. Frost the other morning - 6 Degr Cels = 21.2 Fah (unofficial at ground level) Even so, my feet still burn and I have to hang them out of bed. Now with nortrip my toes are numb with the cold. Yep swings and round-a-bouts. Not moaning though, gets rid of a lot of bugs.
Allergies are the pits. Had a blood test a week or 2 ago and for the 1st time I didnt get an itchy reaction to whatever they must put on every needle from manafacture. I used Fucicort and actually remembered to put a little on every day for about 5 days as a preventative and it worked! Yippee. For once I didnt have to take phenergen to back off some itchy reaction.
Be thinking of you for Monday, but you guys monday will probably be our Tuesday. All the best for that.
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Musical, thank you so much for the prayers. You have been such and encouragement.
I know of a band from NZ. They came to our church a couple of times. They are called the Lads. Kids love them....and adults too.
Hope everyone has a good night!
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Praying for you Fondak. Let us know how your appointment turns out.
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Good morning to everyone here!! I have been away to a wedding in Raleigh, NC, I thought of you Rocket. Beautiful state!!!!! Prayers are being lifted upfor all of you, for all of your daily needs, concerns, appointments and joys. I will catch up here and please know that you are all in my thoughts and prayers!!!! May you all have a very blessed day!!!
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Sorry to hear that Jo, Cellulitis is the PITS. I hope you get this fixed ASAP. I had it once in my leg (shin) B4 BC. Doc said another hour or so and it wouldve meant hospital. Antibiots fixed it but Ive still got the red mark there to this day, which shows up when it gets hot or cold.
I thought it was always associated with being unclean!!! and so I gingerly asked why I got it. He said yes it can happen in unclean situations but not necessarily. It can just happen through the minutest slight crack in the skin. Obviously dry skin is risky then. For those of us with LE we sure need to be on to it.
SO sorry to hear you ladies over i the US are experiencing torturous hot weather. It hit our headlines here and I cant think how horrid this would be for people with LE, nevermind wrapping! (Arrrg) I hope you are all keeping well and out of harms way. May God be with you.
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Dear Jo-5, I am so sorry to hear that you had cellutlitis. It is such a sneaky disease!! Praise the Lord that you had a script on hand. You are in my thoughts and prayers. I am still taking my maintenance antibiotic until it is gone and than I will have a script on hand as well. My LE flared up this weekend. We were in NC and the heat was awful. I wore my sleeve the whole time which helped. I sure hope your healing continues!!! God bless you!!!
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Hi Kathy, I was in Raleigh this weekend! My daughter lives close to there, so we were visiting with her. The weather here has been horrendous! My LE has been uncomfortable, but fortunately I have never experience cellulitis. I am allergic to EVERY oral antibiotic, and when I get an infection I have to get an IV from my infectious disease specialist. I'm so sorry you are struggling with it Jo, but glad you got an antibiotic to catch it quickly.
I will be glad to move to the western part of NC. It's so much cooler there. Less than three weeks and we will be closing on our home out there. It all seems very surreal. We'll be coming back monthly to visit family and for me to take Mom to her doctor appointments. I will probably schedule my other foot surgery just before Christmas as my husband will be off to take care of me. I'm so tired of surgeries, pain, LE, etc., but I know that this too shall pass. God is good and is helping me to deal with each hurdle.
Love all you Ladies and am keeping you in my prayers.0 -
Hi everyone,
I so appreciate all the prayers. It's such a comfort. My visit was very confusing today. The BS examined me and told me he wasn't to concerned about the area my gyn was worried about. Then he said my mri 6 months ago was fine and something would have showed up. I told him I didn't have one 6 mths ago. I thought I was suppose to but when I called the office and asked about it they said I wouldn't have another one until a year. He said...well, your mammogram. I told him I didn't have that either. Then he asked when my last one was and I told him a year ago in August.
Then he just started talking to a PA in training with him and he told her that with the abrupt stop of estrogen that me breast was quickly becoming like that of a 65 year old. That's why there is a thickness in some areas more so than others. He went on to say that it also exposed fibrocystic changes more. He wanted her to see what he was talking about.
Then he said what my gyn saw didn't rock his boat (meaning he wasn't too worried....I think he felt he needed to clarify with my confused look). He ordered a mammogram and mri for Fri.
I should know something next week. He was in a rush today so I didn't really get to ask any questions. I had practically pleaded with him to remove it along with the other but he said there was no need. I really wanted to ask why he is so opposed to that. I will ask him when I go back from these tests.
Jo5 I'm sorry to hear about your arm but glad you are improving.
Rocket I'm south of you in GA. I was talking with a lady over the phone who was trying to help me with my Direct TV . She lives in NC. I didn't realize it was so hot there until she was telling me. We had a good talk about God and His grace. She has a grandbaby that is 7 months old (I think...a little more than 6 I recall). She weighed 1 lb 9 oz when she was born!
Praying for all you ladies and the work God has begun and is seeing us through in our lives. Also, it is in thanksgiving I pray for each of you and the support given here....and the freedom to be able to share like we can without fear....a freedom so many of our brothers and sisters around the world don't have.
Goodnight....and thanks!
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Rocket!!! We stayed at the Sheraton on Salisbury Street, and the wedding was at All Saints Chapel. The reception was at Cobblestone Hall. We ate breakfast twice at Big Eds. We also shopped at the Crabtree Valley Mall on Friday and Saturday, we might have walked by each other!!!! We had a great weekend in a wonderful city!!! I hope you never get cellulitis and prayers are coming your way for an easy move!!! Dear Fondak, You will be in my thoughts and prayers as you have your mammogram and MRI. May you feel peace and strength knowing our Lord is right beside you. God bless you!!!0
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Hi from the shakey isles. Sure had a rocker last night ladies. Mag 7 but pretty deep 230Ks and as such felt almost nationwide. Things are hotting up on this ol earth and the Lords return surely cant be far away.
Just a thought ..... How many of these have we (world wide) heard in the last couple of years ...."unprecedented' ..."never seen it this bad; cold; hot; big; small; etc (.......) <fill in your particular scenario youve heard of. Ha, they say theres no athiests in a good solid earthquake, and I reckon thats not the only place, nevertheless, people sadly for the most part still blame God and blaspheme His name, and this isnt going to get better but worse..... Rev CH 16
Kinda reminds me of Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; (KJV).......
Im hoping and praying all you ladies are safe especially if youre in the terrible heat.
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Fondak this is not nice and Im sure almost all of us encounter this at some time through the walk of life.
"then he asked when my last one was and I told him a year ago in August.
Then he just started talking to a PA in training with him"
Inbetween your two lines above I see the classic fob off. Thats sounds a lot like what we have to put up with with our health system. Too much of the left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing. I encountered this time and time again, especially from my diagnosis through to surgery, but also right up until now. If it wasnt for the grace of God and knowing that I am indeed His child and that the very hairs of my head are numbered, I wouldve "lost it" with the ailing failing system ages ago. ONLY BY HIS GRACE ......
Ive never heard of the Lads. What style of music do they do? BC and my own music have somewhat kept me pretty busy and I'm not up with the play on the Christian music scene. I enjoy some secular music for analytical purposes but I absolutely cant stand the barrage of obnoxious ads and mind controlism/propaganda that comes across the radio now, not to mention the filth. These days I rely on my neice to let me know if theres something I'm missing out on LOL.
Hopefully your results come back OK.0 -
Musical ....the Lads...I guess it would seem rather silly that I mentioned them as an adult. They do shows for kids and now have a TV series on Christian TV here in the states. They really are wonderful guys and talented but no one without little kids would know them I guess. So thankful to hear that it wasn't worse for you there with there with the Mag 7. I can't imagine how that would feel.
Musical and JO5 Thanks for the input regarding the doctor. He is suppose to be the best in our area and started the cancer center here. Today however, I just felt like yesterday wasn't right. Then, I would think is it my hormones or was that strange. The last time I saw him he was training someone. I think perhaps he has taken on too much. I do believe I will try and get a second opinon if anything shows up on this test.
Kindergarten Sounds like you had a nice time away. Thanks for your prayers and I'm glad to see you back again.
Praying for you all! Goodnight! (can you tell I can't sleep on aromasin?)
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Ha Fondak regarding sleep, its the same here with Arimidex and before that, Tam. 4 hrs is not unusual for me and to get 8 hrs is a very unusual treat, as in about once a month if that. I really do think these hormonals are tough on the system as they pretty much squash all the estrogen in the body. As we say, its better than cancer.
Hey I assume those on the west coast would certainly know what earthquakes feel like BIG TIME. DO you guys ever get them in the midwest to east coast? They are just a fact of life here, but once you experience a big one they can be very unnerving. The strange thing is my hubby is adamant he just cant hear them coming and theres nothing wrong with his hearing. I seem to always hear them and long before they hit. Theres nothing supernatural about it because its just a fact that some hear them and some dont. The one last night sounded like a bloomin train continually coming through the wall! It was THAT loud. Ive even heard them above my stereo when Ive had it cranked up some. LOL.
I am still concerned for you all in this awful heat. There is soooo much suffering in this ol world of ours, so praying God will protect you all !
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Dear Muscial, we just moved to CA, to be near our sons. They have experienced 3 earthquakes so far. We will be here almost a year and have not experienced one yet. Praise the Lord, watch as soon as I said this, Our Lord will have us experience one, he,he,he!!! Do you live in CA? How do you know one is coming? I hope you stay safe. We are from the Midwest and lived in Pittsburgh, so we know what tornados are like, but the earthquakes are very new to us. God bless you and prayers for everyone here for a safe and blessed 4th of July!!!!!
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Hi Kindergarten.
No K, I live on the other side of the pond (NZ), and no I dont know when the next one is coming to CA, but CA is known to be on a huge fault line, part of the 'ring of fire' (I think) that encircles the Pacific. Like us in the shakey isles its not a case of if but when. The only ones I have absolute surity about coming is where the book of REV says so. I can safely say I havent got this on my own ;-). Again, its not a case of if but when.
Its SOOOO neat to know that God is in control. We see all this stuff happening around us and yes God wants us to know, watch wait and pray, be ready, 3 times saying take heed that you be not deceived, looking for that blessed day for His return, and also that there is a peace that passes all understanding. Just imagine what it would be like without our dear loving Saviour!!! Praise His name.
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Musical, Wow you live in New Zealand. My youngest son did a semester abroad in Australia and New Zealand. Since we are in CA now, he thinks we should make a trip soon.He said NZ is the most beautiful place on earth!!!! If we get there, I would certainly love to meet you!!! Yes, I am so grateful that I can pray anytime, anywhere and to anyone. What do people do without Our Lord in their lives? I am sure that you are a wonderful Christian role model for others and you also sound like that you are alot of fun as well
Thank you for your wonderful posts!!! TO ALL THE WONDERFUL LADIES HERE, MAY YOUR YOUR DAY BE FILLED WITH MANY BLESSINGS, JOY AND LAUGHTER!!!!! 0 -
Musical, Wow you live in New Zealand. My youngest son did a semester abroad in Australia and New Zealand. Since we are in CA now, he thinks we should make a trip soon.He said NZ is the most beautiful place on earth!!!! If we get there, I would certainly love to meet you!!! Yes, I am so grateful that I can pray anytime, anywhere and to anyone. What do people do without Our Lord in their lives? I am sure that you are a wonderful Christian role model for others and you also sound like that you are alot of fun as well Thank you for your wonderful posts!!! TO ALL THE WONDERFUL LADIES HERE, MAY YOUR YOUR DAY BE FILLED WITH MANY BLESSINGS, JOY AND LAUGHTER!!!!! 0
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Hi Ladies,
I wanted to thank you all so much for your prayers. God has really been at work in my life.
After being reminded here about Paul's desire for prayer in his circumstances, I was doing my bible study and came to Philippians 1:19-20 ...v 19....for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, v 20....according to my earnest expectation and hope, that I will not be put to shame in anything, but that with all boldness, Christ will even now, as always, be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.
What I love about that is.....what if we just used v 19? We would miss the whole point of Paul's life because it's not about his comfort or physical well being but Christ being exalted in his body...period!
That led me to Romans 15:30 ".......by the love of the Spirit to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me." And Eph 6:18 and 19..Pray for me. 1 Thes 5:25 Brethren pray for us.
That revealed to me one of the areas I needed to grow in. Perhaps, it is a pridefulness on my own part that I had convinced myself was actually a meekness instead in not asking for prayer on my behalf.
Then there is the area of my heart that I had given over to anger. Another way I could be prideful is I am very slow to anger. I am passive in nature and avoid conflict sometimes to a fault. With the recent happenings with my breast surgeon I can see that I surpassed a justifiable frustration and allowed it to become a sinful anger.
I was thinking....why am I so down? Is this hormonal? That could be part of it but did not excuse my lack of focus on Christ. Why was I able to handle the first diagnosis better than the possibility of a second go round?
In trying to supress my feelings of anger that I was dismissing as frustration, the snowball effect sin began to roll. From there, I went to "this really doesn't seem fair...hormones changing, motherhood changes, breast surgeon frustrations, marriage stressors, pain and fatigue all at once when I thought I had went through the worst of it...at least for a little while".
Then I realized I didn't have the anger present then. It's scary to think what other sin could be lurking within that I am justifying as acceptable. I'm thankful God revealed to me this area of my heart. I noticed my get up and go had become...I just really don't feel well. I was cranky and complaining. I had to apologize to my sons for this. I know it must have been alarming to them to watch me handle chemo and radiation only to become irritable after the fact.
Tomorrow I have a mammogram and mri. Please pray for me and though I hope for this to be nothing, even more I hope my character will become more like that of Paul's or even better, like that of Christ.
I'm so thankful for each of you....I'm sure there are even those who come by here, read, pray and have never posted.
For all your prayers.....Thank you!
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Dear Fondak, I am lifting you up in prayer right now! May you feel peace knowing Our Lord is right beside you as you go through the mammogram and MRI. God bless you, Kathy
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