Calling all TNs
Comments
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Suze: Being positive through this is half the batlle. You will need all of your strength to do this, but it can work and you can beat this. Big hugs!
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I am soooo tired! Will check in later when I am feeling more up to it.
Send some good thoughts to tnbcRuth as she seems to have an infection at her recon site.
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Suze, Sending all the best possible wishes. A plan helps move forward, even if you end up changing the path you're on. At least you're moving and it is in the direction of healing.
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Hello ladies, I don't remember how much I have told you since my surgery on 3/7, so here goes.
I had 2 of the 4 drains removed on Monday at the PS office, his nurse did these, I did not see the PS then. I will see him This Friday to start the TE fills. Then I saw the BS yesterday she seemed happy with my progress 1 week out and then told me about the pathology report. The breast mass was less that 1 cm, but of the 11 nodes that were removed 6 still had cancer cells in them. That is thpart that scares me. I will see her again next Tuesday. She said that if the PS does not remove the remaining 2 drains that she will take them out then. I will meet the RO and have a follow-up appt with the MO on the 28th and find out then when I will be starting rads. I am hoping not to have more chemo, but with that many positive nodes I guess that is a possibility. I did have a Second PET Scan about 2 weeks before surgery and we knew fron that the mass was much smaller and that one of the 2 nodes that we knew about was not visible on it and that the other node was much smaller, so it suprised me that 6out of 11 were positive.
What questions do I need to ask my doctors next?
Oh, btw I am feeling pretty good and ready to send DH back to work except I cannot drive to my appts yet. The BS and PS had me lifting my arms over my head the day after surgery, and by 2 days after surgery I had cut up a couple of old T-shirts so that I could wear then between me and the drains. I have since found some tank tops at walmart for $5.00 each and bought some of those. I can always alter them after the drains come out so that they fit better.
Beccad
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MBJ: Hope you feel better soon!!!! Once you heal, you should be really pleased.
Suze: I agree, you appear to have a very positive outlook and that goes a long way in fighting this! Yes you can do it, and will do it, and we'll all be cheering you along and will celebrate when you're done!
beccad: Sounds like you may unfortunately have to do more chemo... Suze had a similar thing happen. I would just ask the doctor what you can hit use to hit it the hardest and fastest! Recovery takes some time, so listen to your body and don't rush it. Drains are a pain.. literally.. so I hope they come out soon.
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Becca - I just pm'd you. We are in the same boat. I have decided on more chemo, but I will say that I have seen women on this board with similar results be fine 3+ years out. Some did chemo, some didn't. It is a tough decision, and while I loathe the idea of going through it again, I decided doctors were starting to do it more for a reason - they are seeing positive results. So if you decide to do more, I'll be with you all the way.
MBJ, Husker, and Angelisa - thank you for your support. I feel a strength in me I didn't have before, and a resolve. I'll get through this, and then the chips will fall. This board is awesome.0 -
Suze & Becca: You have each other and you have this board and if the dr's say more chemo take it as an opportunity to do more. We will be here right by your side through it all. Hugs!
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Thanks for all your words of encouragment. I haven't even told DH how scared I am at this point. I just hate this disease!!! I am just trying to go one step at a time right now. I need to get a copy of the path report next Tuesday when I go back to see the BS.
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beccad: If you really want to get the path report before Tues, I think you can. Just call and let someone know you want to pick it up, say Friday afternoon (tomorrow). When you read it, read ALL of it and then digest what it says. You may need to look up some things that you don't understand, and some of it may sound scary but may mean very little. It is a scary time, and even though family/friends try to be as understanding as possible, there's no way for them to understand the fear we feel when faced with news we don't want to hear. That's why I keep coming to this forum, because the women here DO truly understand.
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Hi Ladies just wanted to let you know I am back from first treatment, it went smoothly only had a few teary moments so pat on the back for me lol. It was pretty unevntful as you all said it would be. I am feeling a bit tired right now but other than that not too bad at this point. I want to thank you all for your supprot and encouragment to get me to this point. it made it all a whole lot less scary i hope I can help others who are a few steps behind me. so 1 down and 5 to go if all goes as planned will be done june 30.
going to have a nap now thanks you all again soo soo much
Kymn
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Kymn: Glad to hear you got through okay. Be sure to take your anti nausea pills and drink tons and tons of water! The first was my worse and after that it went pretty quickly. Wishing you very few SE's. Hugs!!
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Kymn: Yay! One down! As MBJ said, DRINK lots of fluid. Water is preferable, but anything that doesn't contain caffeine. I went through quite a bit of gatoraide and vitamin water, but gatoraide does contain quite a bit of sodium.0
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Glad to hear your first tx went okay, Kymm. I agree with the others, drink as much water as you can. I forced myself to drink 3 2L bottles each day on the infusion day and 3 days after. I am convinced it is part of the reason I did so well. I was also told it helps with your blood counts, although I don't really understand how. I never needed nuelasta and my counts were always good, so maybe it is true.
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Kymm..glad you are feeling ok and that first dang chemo is OVER..my friends told me that it was the "day after the day after" that you may feel a little low..I think it was the neulasta shot that kinda did me in..but I don't know since I had the damn thing every time...Anyway..it wasn't like I was sick or throwing up or anything..I felt more like I had the flu..achy, that kind of thing..usually just sleeping did me good and I felt pretty well the next day.....let us know...and again, glad the first one is over for you..we can start counting down!
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Kymn Glad to hear that you are doing okay. Hang in there. You can do it!
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ok girls I have to tell you this is soooooo weird I feel nothing, like nothing I feel totally normal right now. did they give me salin??? lol I know I am on an aggressive chemo FEC-D but I dont feel anything did this happen to any of you???
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Kymn, I am feeling absolutely fine as well. A little tired, but I think that is from getting up at 5:00 to take the stupid steroid pills and having trouble getting back to sleep. But that's it. It was very anti-climatic! This I think, might be the calm before the proverbial storm. But weathermen are wrong and so we can do all we can to prevent that "storm" as well. I'm trying to drink a lot and have my anti-nausea meds ready at the slightest hint of rumbling!
Enjoy it while it lasts-it may last longer than you think!
Kristy
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Kymn: Yes, actually and I'll bet a lot of other women will agree. I felt fine the day of my first chemo. I documented everything. That's why we say the actual event isn't as big a deal as what our minds make it being. However... as Titan said above... it's not an effect you'll feel maybe the very first day. With me, I didn't feel anything weird until like 2-3 days after the treatment. And with my first treatment, it was pretty mild and I was like, "wow, this seems really easy". LOL, then I ended up in the hospital two weeks post chemo #1 because my white count dropped to .5! Keep in mind that everyone reacts different, and what one person may experience could be completely different from the next. Some of us experience accumulative effects... it's easy the first time, a little harder with more SE's the next time, and so on. Some of us have a horrible first treatment, then it gets easier. It's wonderful you're not feeling anything different!! No, they didn't give you saline... trust me, it's in there. Let's hope you have a really easy time of it, but in the meantime, KEEP DRINKING FLUIDS! That's probably the number one thing that will help you have less side effects.
Edited to add: I actually was very active the day of my first chemo, and the day of each successive chemo. I would go shopping and be pretty high energy those days, and I blame it mainly on the decadron. I only took 4 mg the night before, and was supposed to take 4 mg twice a day for two days after... but, because I'd read other people saying they experienced crashes (very tired), I decided to take 4 mg twice a day for one day, and then I halved them for the second day. Decadron can cause you to be extremely energetic, and interfere with sleep. It also carries side effects, one being a tendency to blurred vision. A lot of us have blurred vision, or notice our vision gets worse during chemo... mine was awful and I didn't realize how bad until I finished. I can see probably as clear as before now, except my near vision seems worse (but it was worsening prior to chemo).
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Girls, I hate to break it to you, but the SEs don't usually hit on the first day. I too thought "wow, I am not sure they actually gave me anything." LOL. I never had any SEs until the Friday night following a Tuesday infusion, at which point the flu-like symptoms started. Take it easy for this first treatment until you figure out what your SEs are.
I am glad you are doing so well, though. I usually felt kind of yucky the first night from the other drugs (decadron, zofran, etc).
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Irr4993 - my timing was similar to your's. I had my treatments on Monday and Thursday/Friday were my worst days and I started coming around by the weekend and was clearly on the mend by the following Monday.
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Hey there everyone. It has been a while since I Have been on on here so I thought I would check in and say hello and see how everyone is. Glad to see those of you that are done are doing well and sad to see that there are more people starting this horrific process. You will all get through it. I went to my PS yesterday and exchange surgery is scheduled for April 4th. Cant wait to have this rock removed...
MBJ - I am a uni like you. Did you have only the implan on the mast side or did you have work on the other. My ps is going to do a lift on the "normal" side but no implant just a lift.
Have a great day everyone. Make every day count
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FWIW I never had any SEs (TCx4) significant enough to prevent me from doing what I wanted to do. I did take it pretty easy though and hubby took over all of the barn chores (which was a big help).
I was aways waiting for the other shoe to drop--- but it never did! Yeah, I had that nasty metallic taste, lost my hair, had weird white lines in my nails, a little tingling in the extremities, etc.--- but nothing so severe that I couldn't go about my ADLs.
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Sugar - It does sound like we had a similar course. I swear you could have set a clock by my SEs. All 4 were identical: 10:30 on Friday the muscles aches started in my thighs; I slept almost constantly from Friday night to Sunday morning; about noon on Sunday the muscle aches and sleepiness ended, but muscle fatigue and breathlessness upon exertion started; Monday and Tuesday the muscle fatigue and breathlessness gradually ended; Wednesday back to normal. Every single time, except the last one when I was fully recovered by monday - I think that may have just been adrenaline/excitement of knowing I was done!
I have a friend who also did TCx4 and she had the same course too. I guess it is pretty normal for that chemo. It really was not bad - I expected so much worse.
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Hi ladies I had a good night sleep woke up about 6 feeling a tad nauseas so took my pill and now nothing. feeling a bit tired but nothing too terribly bad. My lips belly toes and fingers are swollen from the steriods but other than that doing great. Prolly could have worked today but hey i had the day off anyhow might as well have a nice lazy day right. if i am feeling this good monday i will go in for sure but if I get delayed SE will take the 3 extra days I had booked off anyhow. I kind of figured a week off for each treatment then back for two. anyhow just wanted to update you all, thanks for sharing your experiences with me so I have the heads up if anything changes. is anyone else doing FEC-D or is it just me?
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Kymn: You will find many others on the Canadian board doing (or done with) FEC-D. My sister found the aches and tiredness hit her on days 4-7. Good luck.
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Kymn - I planned for the same thing - one week off, two weeks on. I took the week the first time because I was not sure what to expect. After that I worked straight through as my only down day was saturday which did not affect my job. At the time, I felt like working through was a good thing - it kept my mind off things, gave me a sense of normalcy, and, of course, my employer appreciated the effort. Now that treatment is over (i just finished rads about a month ago), I feel so burnt out. I kind of wish I had not pushed myself so hard. Even thought I never felt terrible, I think the whole process from diagnosis through treatment was harder on me than I realized . . . it is catching up with me a bit lately. I have a long overdue vacation coming up. I hope that gets me back into a more energetic mode. My onco and rad onco both told me to give it a couple of months . . . I am not that patient!
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Cancers are Very Dependent on Iron
Iron is needed for DNA replication in rapidly dividing cells.3
A recent report from the Department of Biomolecular Sciences in Urbino Italy, found that fluid taken from the nipple of cancer patients contained significantly higher levels of aluminum than did nipple fluid taken from women without breast cancer-approximately twice as much aluminum.4
A number of studies have found that extracting nipple fluid by a breast pump (in both premenopausal and postmenopausal women) is a simple way to study the microenvironment of the ductal tissue, the site of development of most breast cancers.5
Examining this ductal fluid is an excellent way to measure such things as iron levels, ferritin (an iron-binding protein), CRP (a measure of breast inflammation) and aluminum.
The researchers also found that women with breast cancer had much higher levels of ferritin, an iron transport protein, in their breast fluid, which was 5X higher in women with breast cancer.6
This observation has been confirmed in other studies.
In previous studies researchers found that one's intake of iron did not necessarily correlate with risk of breast cancer, but rather the release of iron from its protective proteins, such as ferritin and transferrin was critical.7
This distinction is very important and explains why some studies found no link between iron intake in the diet and breast cancer incidence.8
Free Iron Can Be Very Dangerous
Over 90% of iron absorbed from your diet is normally bound to these protective proteins. Recent studies have shown that some things we do can cause too much of the iron to be released into surrounding tissues, and if this iron exists as free iron, it can trigger intense inflammation, free radical generation and lipid peroxidation.
Bound iron is relatively harmless.
So, what can cause these protective proteins to release their iron?
One factor is an excessive alcohol intake. Studies by Lee et al have shown that women who drink greater than 20 grams of alcohol a day significantly increase the free iron in their breast tissue and have a higher incidence of invasive breast cancer-the most deadly form.9
It has also been shown that excessive estrogen can displace iron from its protective proteins, thus increasing free iron levels and associated breast cancer risk. 10 This helps explain the link between high estrogen levels and breast cancer.
Of more importance than the total intake of iron is where the iron ends up that is absorbed from your food.
As stated, most of it is bound to protective proteins, such as transferrin in the blood and ferritin within cells. If you have a lot of extra space within these proteins for binding iron, then a high dietary iron intake would be less harmful.
Previously it was thought that a spillover of free iron occurred only when the protective proteins (tranferrin and ferritin) were fully saturated, as we see with the condition hemochromatosis.
How Aluminum and Alcohol Worsen Iron Toxicity
We now know that both aluminum and alcohol can displace the iron from its protective proteins, raising the level of harmful free iron, even when these protective proteins are not fully saturated with iron.9If this occurs within the breast, as this study demonstrates, free iron levels in the breast ductal tissue can become dangerously high and over time induce malignant tumor formation.
The question to be asked is--where did the aluminum come from?
The authors of the paper suggested underarm antiperspirants as a possibility. But, there is another source that is becoming increasingly a problem and that is from vaccine adjuvants.
Vaccines are a Major Source of Aluminum for Many
Many inactivated vaccines contain aluminum salts to boost the immune reaction. Studies have shown that this aluminum is slowly dispersed all over the body and may be concentrated in breast ducts.11
The amount of aluminum in vaccines is tremendous, especially in such vaccines as the anthrax vaccine, hepatitis vaccine and tetanus vaccine.
Since many American children are being exposed to multiple doses of aluminum containing vaccines by the time they are 6 years old, one would expect very high exposures to injected aluminum.
A recent study by Lucija Tomljenovik and Chris Shaw found that a newborn receives a dose of aluminum that exceeds FDA safety limits (5mg/kg/day) for injected aluminum by 20-fold, and at 6 months of age a dose that was 50-fold higher than FDA safety limits.12
Aluminum at this young age will accumulate in various tissues and with new vaccine recommendations, children and young adults may be exposed to many more aluminum containing vaccines every year throughout life.
With the ability of aluminum to displace iron from its protective proteins, we may not only see a dramatic increase in breast cancer, but also other iron-related diseases, such as liver degeneration, neurodegenerative disease, diabetes, heart failure and atherosclerosis.13 No one is addressing this very real danger.
References· 1 Wu T et al. Serum iron, copper and zinc concentrations and the risk of cancer mortality in US adults. Ann Epidemiol 2004; 14: 195-201.
· 2 Cade J et al. Case-control study of breast cancer in southeast England: Nutritional factors. Epidemiol Community Health 1998; 52: 105-110.
· 3 Kalinowski DS, Richardson DR. The evolution of iron chelators for the treatment of iron overload disease and cancer. Pharmacol Rev 2005; 57: 547-583.
· 4 Mannello F, et al. Analysis of aluminum content and iron homeostasis in nipple aspirate fluids from healthy women and breast cancer-affected patients. J Appl Toxicol 2011; Feb 21,(ahead of print)
· 5 Mannello F et al. Iron-binding proteins and C-reactive protein in nipple aspirate fluids: role of iron-0driven inflammation in breast microenvironment. Am J Transl Res 2011;3: 100-113.
· 6 Mannello et al and Shpyleva SI et al. Role of ferritin alterations in human breast cancer cells. Breast Cancer Res Treat 2011; 126: 63-71.
· 7 Lithgow D et al. C-reactive protein in nipple aspirate fluid: relation to women's health factors. Nurs Res 2006; 65: 418-425.
· 8 Kabat GC et al. Dietary iron and heme iron intake and risk of breast cancer: a prospective cohort study. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2007; 16:1306-1308.
· 9 Lee DH et al. Dietary iron intake and breast cancer: The Iowa Women's Health Study. Proc Am Assoc Cancer Res 2004; 45: A2319.
· 10 Wyllie S, Liehr JG. Release of iron from ferritin storage by redox cycling of stilbene and steroid estrogen metabolites: a mechanism of induction of free radical damage by estrogen. Arch Biochem Biophys 1997; 346: 180-186.
· 11 Flarend et al. In vivo absorption of aluminum-containing vaccine adjuvants using Al-26. Vaccine 1997 15, 1314-1318.
· 12 Tomljenovic L and Shaw C. 2011 in press.
· 13 Weinberg ED. Iron toxicity. Ox Med Cell Longevity 2009; 2: 107-109. Cancers are Very Dependent on Iron
Iron is needed for DNA replication in rapidly dividing cells.3
A recent report from the Department of Biomolecular Sciences in Urbino Italy, found that fluid taken from the nipple of cancer patients contained significantly higher levels of aluminum than did nipple fluid taken from women without breast cancer-approximately twice as much aluminum.4
A number of studies have found that extracting nipple fluid by a breast pump (in both premenopausal and postmenopausal women) is a simple way to study the microenvironment of the ductal tissue, the site of development of most breast cancers.5
Examining this ductal fluid is an excellent way to measure such things as iron levels, ferritin (an iron-binding protein), CRP (a measure of breast inflammation) and aluminum.
The researchers also found that women with breast cancer had much higher levels of ferritin, an iron transport protein, in their breast fluid, which was 5X higher in women with breast cancer.6
This observation has been confirmed in other studies.
In previous studies researchers found that one's intake of iron did not necessarily correlate with risk of breast cancer, but rather the release of iron from its protective proteins, such as ferritin and transferrin was critical.7
This distinction is very important and explains why some studies found no link between iron intake in the diet and breast cancer incidence.8
Free Iron Can Be Very Dangerous
Over 90% of iron absorbed from your diet is normally bound to these protective proteins. Recent studies have shown that some things we do can cause too much of the iron to be released into surrounding tissues, and if this iron exists as free iron, it can trigger intense inflammation, free radical generation and lipid peroxidation.
Bound iron is relatively harmless.
So, what can cause these protective proteins to release their iron?
One factor is an excessive alcohol intake. Studies by Lee et al have shown that women who drink greater than 20 grams of alcohol a day significantly increase the free iron in their breast tissue and have a higher incidence of invasive breast cancer-the most deadly form.9
It has also been shown that excessive estrogen can displace iron from its protective proteins, thus increasing free iron levels and associated breast cancer risk. 10 This helps explain the link between high estrogen levels and breast cancer.
Of more importance than the total intake of iron is where the iron ends up that is absorbed from your food.
As stated, most of it is bound to protective proteins, such as transferrin in the blood and ferritin within cells. If you have a lot of extra space within these proteins for binding iron, then a high dietary iron intake would be less harmful.
Previously it was thought that a spillover of free iron occurred only when the protective proteins (tranferrin and ferritin) were fully saturated, as we see with the condition hemochromatosis.
How Aluminum and Alcohol Worsen Iron Toxicity
We now know that both aluminum and alcohol can displace the iron from its protective proteins, raising the level of harmful free iron, even when these protective proteins are not fully saturated with iron.9If this occurs within the breast, as this study demonstrates, free iron levels in the breast ductal tissue can become dangerously high and over time induce malignant tumor formation.
The question to be asked is--where did the aluminum come from?
The authors of the paper suggested underarm antiperspirants as a possibility. But, there is another source that is becoming increasingly a problem and that is from vaccine adjuvants.
Vaccines are a Major Source of Aluminum for Many
Many inactivated vaccines contain aluminum salts to boost the immune reaction. Studies have shown that this aluminum is slowly dispersed all over the body and may be concentrated in breast ducts.11
The amount of aluminum in vaccines is tremendous, especially in such vaccines as the anthrax vaccine, hepatitis vaccine and tetanus vaccine.
Since many American children are being exposed to multiple doses of aluminum containing vaccines by the time they are 6 years old, one would expect very high exposures to injected aluminum.
A recent study by Lucija Tomljenovik and Chris Shaw found that a newborn receives a dose of aluminum that exceeds FDA safety limits (5mg/kg/day) for injected aluminum by 20-fold, and at 6 months of age a dose that was 50-fold higher than FDA safety limits.12
Aluminum at this young age will accumulate in various tissues and with new vaccine recommendations, children and young adults may be exposed to many more aluminum containing vaccines every year throughout life.
With the ability of aluminum to displace iron from its protective proteins, we may not only see a dramatic increase in breast cancer, but also other iron-related diseases, such as liver degeneration, neurodegenerative disease, diabetes, heart failure and atherosclerosis.13 No one is addressing this very real danger.
References· 1 Wu T et al. Serum iron, copper and zinc concentrations and the risk of cancer mortality in US adults. Ann Epidemiol 2004; 14: 195-201.
· 2 Cade J et al. Case-control study of breast cancer in southeast England: Nutritional factors. Epidemiol Community Health 1998; 52: 105-110.
· 3 Kalinowski DS, Richardson DR. The evolution of iron chelators for the treatment of iron overload disease and cancer. Pharmacol Rev 2005; 57: 547-583.
· 4 Mannello F, et al. Analysis of aluminum content and iron homeostasis in nipple aspirate fluids from healthy women and breast cancer-affected patients. J Appl Toxicol 2011; Feb 21,(ahead of print)
· 5 Mannello F et al. Iron-binding proteins and C-reactive protein in nipple aspirate fluids: role of iron-0driven inflammation in breast microenvironment. Am J Transl Res 2011;3: 100-113.
· 6 Mannello et al and Shpyleva SI et al. Role of ferritin alterations in human breast cancer cells. Breast Cancer Res Treat 2011; 126: 63-71.
· 7 Lithgow D et al. C-reactive protein in nipple aspirate fluid: relation to women's health factors. Nurs Res 2006; 65: 418-425.
· 8 Kabat GC et al. Dietary iron and heme iron intake and risk of breast cancer: a prospective cohort study. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev 2007; 16:1306-1308.
· 9 Lee DH et al. Dietary iron intake and breast cancer: The Iowa Women's Health Study. Proc Am Assoc Cancer Res 2004; 45: A2319.
· 10 Wyllie S, Liehr JG. Release of iron from ferritin storage by redox cycling of stilbene and steroid estrogen metabolites: a mechanism of induction of free radical damage by estrogen. Arch Biochem Biophys 1997; 346: 180-186.
· 11 Flarend et al. In vivo absorption of aluminum-containing vaccine adjuvants using Al-26. Vaccine 1997 15, 1314-1318.
· 12 Tomljenovic L and Shaw C. 2011 in press.
· 13 Weinberg ED. Iron toxicity. Ox Med Cell Longevity 2009; 2: 107-109.0 -
Kymn, another SE of the steroids they give you (to prevent/lessen other SEs!) is something called micro-tremors. You may well notice your handwriting and typing skills going to hell in a handbasket and wonder what's happening. It's the steroids causing micro-tremors in your hands. It will go away when you stop taking the steroids. Just FYI! I completely freaked out, because they forgot to warn me about that. The ladies here told me.0
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riley-- that's interesting and something I hadn't thought about. I noticed my writing seemed much worse during chemo, but since I rarely had to write anything important I figured it was no big deal.
MBJ- I read that information somewhere in the past and it is very thought-provoking.
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Heidi, it wasn't that big a deal, but whenever I would sign a paper or something at the doctor's, it looked like chicken scratches and embarrassed me.
Also, I was describing (here) a horrible night where I couldn't sleep and couldn't stay in bed to save my life. I just kept sitting up and would start to get out of bed, but had no clue why or where I was going. I'd make myself lay back down, but the minute I quit actively thinking about it, up I would pop! Someone here told me it was Restless Leg Syndrome, caused temporarily by the steroids. I had seen the warning, but had no clue what RLS really was (maybe something like a cramp in your leg?), so had no idea what was happening. I really thought the chemo was making me crazy, but it was all caused by the steroids.
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