Bras 101: The Great Post-Exchange Debate
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samiam, I need them pushed together so I have no experience to offer you but doesn't the playtex 18 hour bra claim to lift and separate?
I went to TJ Maxx to look for bras hoping to find a $12.00 Natori, Chantelle, or Waacol bargain. I didn't find any high end brands or anything in my size. Last week I went to Marshalls. Maybe its a CA or southwest thing to have the high ends in TJ's- but in NJ they have a lot of Balis and Warners and Rene Rofe
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Or maybe in NJ (which is where I also am Waldo
people just snap them up faster! 0 -
Jerusha, I suspect one reason the PS's differ in their protocol is because this is a complex problem, not simply an issue of positioning implants. Underwires and tight bands increase the risk of breast and truncal lymphedema (which is on the rise, according to recent evidence-based research, though the cause of that rise is not yet known), and tight straps do the same for arm lymphedema. So I'd guess any surgeon makes compromises as he sees best. It's helpful (as cs7 mentions) to be sure bands and straps are wide and distribute the pressure across more area. But underwires and tight bands and straps do limit or even cut off lymph flow (the lymph vessels are right under the skin), which can overwhelm an already-compromised lymph system.
Breast cancer is just a welter of compromises, start to finish!
All of our doctors make these judgement calls every day -- hard to imagine the stress they're under all the time, especially as new research throws light on one aspect or another. All very complex!Be well,
Binney0 -
Lilah, I'm in Monmouth County and I need to find out when the new merchandise arrives or I need to be one of those people who go all the time.. I hate shopping and the bra department in those stores is such a mess. Like the others said, I feel like I'm at a flea market. I did check ebay like Deborah suggested but they don't have my size.
Binney, that makes a lot of sense.
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Binney, thanks for that discussion of lymph flow and bras. I'd forgotten about this physiological background, although my BS kept warning me not to let my surgical bra (put on by the plastic surgeon) be too tight post-MX so as not to comprimise circulation to the skin, which was already compromised. There's even a movement that claims that bras cause breast cancer because of reduced lymph flow and recommend everyone throw them out. I don't buy that but certainly anything binding and compressing will affect lymph and blood flow and might contribute to some degree to any given difficulty (although might be good simultaneously for others). I've rarely worn bras for 10-15 yrs and got BC so I'd be negative data agst the bra-BC connection!0
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Waldo -- I wonder if you can ask the store manager at your local TJ Maxx when they usually get new bra stock? Might be worth a try... I haven't looked yet... still healing post surgery... but god I can't wait to buy a new bra! I am with CS too... a thick band is far more comfy
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HEY BINNEY: Thanks. Just read all of your posts on lymphedema, read thru the topic and went to some of the links. NOW I know a lot more about LE! Guess I should not have been so easily consoled by being told that I didn't need to worry about LE after SNB. BTW, after BMX, how do you ever get routine stuff done (BP's, blood draws) in typical outpatient settings? I had blood work done today and just getting the tech to understand that putting on gloves and then touching everything in the room before touching me, was defeating the purpose...or that tossing the ETOH wipe into the tray where the filled blood tubes go, and then trying to re-use it on me, was out of the question! Can't imagine trying to get them to use my legs for stuff!! One more thing, just ordered a hot tub for my twins 16th birthday present. NO hot tubbing for me, it seems, from what I read ???
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Jerusha....can you run out of that lab for good? Whoosh!
VAL!!! Thank you so much for this thread!!!!!
I am really, really unhappy with my bra situation. I have been wearing only sport bras since I gave up the post surgical bra after my exchange in NOVEMBER! And my foobs hurt most of the time!! I think it is because the sports bras are too tight in all the wrong places, but going without is just NOT an option! My best time is at night laying down with my really soft and thin racer back champion bras, but I would never wear them all day long because when standing up they really don't offer a lot of support.
I agree that I like a wide band option. (My PS said never again to underwires...go figure) but I am going to try them again! I have a drawer full of Balis from pre BC days, but honestly the straps I feel aren't offering enough support. And even with wearing only sport bras 24/7, my chest is getting concave from the weight of the foobs. AAAGGGHHH!!!!
Deborah....great to see you, too! Thanks to you and Val for giving me the impetus to go shopping again!
God Bless!
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Binney- I wish there was a way for you to put a post about LE on every thread on here simultaneously so that every women was made aware of the risks, especially the ones that have only had SNB. I would be curious about the ratio of women who have not been told about this risk. I'm guessing it would be in the high 90%.
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I know this is about bras post exchange. Anyone have input in good bras following flap procedures? Next week I am allowed to wear a real bra and was told wire or wire free is ok. The flap breasts are wider at the base somewhat like implants. Anyone?????
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I am going to post this on the EC thread also but wanted to say ...
NORDSTROM IS AWESOME!!! (If expensive LOL!) I just went over on my lunch break to get fitted for the first time since exchange. The girl helping me was amazing - didn't even bat an eye when I told her I'd had reconstruction or with any of the fit issues. Brought me about 20 different bras and even gave me a print out of the ones I liked but didn't buy and told me which ones were going on sale in July and is going to call me and pull my sizes when the sale starts!
I'm going to have to send them a letter or something. We really should start some sort of campaign for them as much as they have their praises sung on BCO ...
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I wish we had one close.
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Hey, my bra-loving - and hating
- friends! Sorry.....I've been away on at the beach for the last week or so enjoying some much needed R&R with my three wonderful men.......my dh and two sons, to be specific! Haven't had time to read back, so if there's a question that I can help with, please ask me again. I still have a pile of mail to go through, plus the house is a disaster. It could take me a few days to catch up.MsSherry - Sorry, but can't answer specifically about bras for the flap procedures. If they're wider than natural breasts - just like implants - you'll probably have some of the same issues we have - we often have to go up a cup size, particularly in underwire bras, to accommodate the width of the implants. Since our projection is less than normal breasts, some brands just are too full in the cup then. Try some of the brands recommended and see if any of them work for you. Since you don't have Nordstrom's nearby, you can always order a few sizes online and return the ones that don't work. Both barenecessities and herroom are excellent with returns. Believe me, I've returned a million bras in the past 9 months!
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Samiam: I just saw your post from last week. Thought I would offer that bras which encapsulate the breasts will help, but a bra which lifts and separates might be better. Marena makes one...this one:
http://marenagroup.com/garmentstore/product/tabid/199/p-148-lift-and-separate-bra.aspx
I have one by Lululemon called Lift and Separate - and it really lifts and separates. I am wearing it in one of my photos on the pictures forum - in black. I see it is discontinued on the Lululemon website, but you might be able to find one on Ebay. I just checked Ebay and they have some now. If you cannot find your size, you can "Save the Search" and you will be emailed whenever one is listed.
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Deborah - I am completely addicted to Lululemon. They just opened a "boutique" store in here in Ft. Worth (only open on weekends) with a very small inventory. Have you tried their Tata Tamer bra? I remember somebody talked about it last year....maybe it was you....the largest cup size they had in a 32 was a D, and it was too small....bummer.....maybe they go bigger on the website or at a real store.
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Oh wow Val! I am just getting ready to post some links in response to Angel's request for some bra recommendations, and the Ta Ta Tamer is one of them!
Lululemon's Ta Ta Tamer:
http://shop.lululemon.com/Ta_Ta_Tamer/pd/c/520/np/520/p/1642.html
Sassybax -
This is the one I wear when I go speed-walking....You have to step into it - it is not so easy to put on as some others - but oh is it ever comfortable...it is the wired version:
http://sassybax.com/underwire_bralette.php
Here is the wireless version [which purports to "separate" the breasts]
http://sassybax.com/bralette.php
And the Moving Comfort "Maia", "Cara" or "Iris"
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That Ta Ta Tamer....yes....it is sad that the DD cup sizes are not to be found. All sold out. I can only hope to find one on Ebay now....I have a saved search function going for that one....
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Jerusha, sorry to be so long answering -- my internet access has been down since last Thursday. Going off the internet cold turkey for five days -- aaaugh!
Your lab story sounds like a very bad horror movie! I had a lab tech who wiped his runny nose with his gloved fingers and then turned around to do my bloodwork. Eeeek!
Once you find a lab you can trust, and preferably a lab tech you like, it's easier to get what you need from them in order to protect yourself. The lab work sheet from your doctor MUST have the words "Draw from foot only" written on it or they won't be able to do it. My lab tech often brings new techs into the room to show them how it's done in a foot, so they can learn too. One of them said to her, "But that's exactly the way we do it in an arm -- so, what's different about using a foot?" I had to laugh at her answer: "Nothing's different except that it's a lot easier to do in the foot because the veins are bigger." So much for the complications of foot draws!
Your own hot tub can be controlled by you, and 102 degrees is the top temp recommended by the National Lymphedema Network in their Risk Reduction guidelines. Not as hot as you'd like, I'd bet, but just right to keep you from being left out entirely:
http://www.lymphnet.org/pdfDocs/nlnriskreduction.pdfKate, I wish we could do that survey too -- except maybe it would be too discouraging!
Sorry to hijack the topic here, because it's an important one, but I just wanted to answer those quick questions. Now, back to our regular programming:
LOVE the Sassybax! (But it sure is pricey!
)Be well,
Binney0 -
Thanks Binney for your always helpful information. I don't think it is thread hijacking, as if someone has LE or is at high risk for same, choosing the right supportive bra becomes essential, if not mandatory.
RE: Sassybax: Over 300 "new" Sassybax bras for sale on Ebay.....most of them average at $25.00 each...
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Just linked to the marenagroup website from Whippetmom's (Hi Whippetmom!) post. On one of these threads, EC, Implant, Bras, Foobville?? someone was asking about sleep bras. On this site they have one under Everday Wear, or something along those lines. Actually looks pretty comfy, considering...They also have several post-op bras and some sort-of normal ones that look to have a lot of support, though not what you would call sexy.
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Deborah - I think you should be our official Ebay liason.....perhaps I shouldn't admit this, but I've never bought anything there....too afraid I'll be taken....just this morning there was this sad story on the radio about a young cancer patient at our local children's hospital who bought a guitar from Ebay that she planned to play during chemo, only to receive it and discover it had a huge hole in the back....radio station came to her rescue, of course.....as much as I like to shop, you'd think I'd be an Ebay expert!
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I am also nervous about ebay and I don't quite get it.
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For instance: On Ebay:
NWT Freya Bra 5922 Pollyanna Balcony Plunge $60 32DD - Retails for $60.00. Buy It Now [instant purchase - no bidding necessary] for $37.00 [shipping included.] NWT means "New With Tags."
You do not have the "return" ability you have with retail stores, but if you already know your size and the styles you like, it works just fine.
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That's a pretty darn good deal! Okay.....I'll start shopping..... 0
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Deborah, Thanks so much for the links to the lululemon and other bras. Several of these have wide lower bands and straps in the normal place so they could be worn with regular clothes (sport bras with wide bands typically have bands that don't work w/a lot of clothes). I will definitely check them out.
Binney, I believe you're associated with the Lymphedema Step Up Speak Up website and so I want to ask about some things there and here that you might be uniquely able to address. On the SuSo site there are a number of bras and camis that are described as "compression garments". Some of the compression bras look quite similar to the ones that Deborah (whippetmom) linked to above and to more heavy duty sport bras; some of the compression camis are by mainstream makers like Maidenform and Moving Comfort. My question is, what makes something a compression bra or cami vs not? In the case of the bras I can see that the comp bras tend to have more adjustments, wide straps, high backs and wide bands, so perhaps those are key. But the camis just appear to be the more elasticy ones compared to loose or cottony. Other diff? For those who don't have LE (knock on wood) but are at risk from nodes removed, should we be interested in wearing a compression bra or cami rather than regular ones under certain circumstances? I have a compression sleeve and use it at times as preventative, but I have yet to find discussion of wearing compression bras or camis as preventatives, and under what conditions, as well. What do you think? I hope this isn't too off topic for this bra forum but since I'm asking about bras & camis I think it's still relevant.
CS
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CS, hello,
Lymphedema arm sleeves and gloves are specially designed to provide gradient compression, which means they offer greater compression toward the fingers and gradually less toward the arm pit. That gradient pressure helps to move the lymph fluid in the direction you want it to go -- up the arm.
Compression bras don't offer gradient compression because -- well, because we have to breathe! Most of the compression garments on the SU-SO pages are either designed for post-surgical compression (specifically, post any plastic surgery, not just cancer-related), or they're specifically designed for lymphedema. As you note, they all offer wide straps and good coverage both under the arm and across the back. As it happens, many woman with breast or truncal lymphedema have trouble with those areas in particular, so those are good choices. The wide straps and bands help prevent constriction of lymph vessels by distributing the pressure over a wider area and by making it unnecessary for them to be as tight as thinner bands would be. Camis offer women with lymphedema the extra advantage of encouraging lymph flow across the waist and down to the nodes in the groin, as well as eliminating any constriction below the breasts that a bra band would do.
For directing lymph fluid (since we can't use gradient compression on our chest) women with lymphedema can use special pads that come in assorted sizes and shapes and contain grooves that direct fluid. Here are pictures of some of them to help make it clearer:
http://solarismed.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=4We have two bras and one cami on SU-SO that are made specifically for lymphedema: Bellisse bra and Wear-Ease bra and cami. Both have prosthesis pockets, very comfortable fabric (to protect skin integrity), wide straps and good coverage, and the Bellisse also has pockets for Swell Spots.
As for wearing compression bras/camis as a means of reducing lymphedema risk, I've never heard that suggested either. But here are some things to consider: first, all risk reduction guidelines include the warning about underwire bras blocking lymph flow below the breast (thereby overloading the lymphatics above) as well as tight or narrow bra straps and bands; and second, compression against the skin anywhere increases the efficiency of the lymph system whenever we move (as long as it doesn't bind in any one place). You'll notice that the rage in sports now is compression sleeves, which improves performance. So, my guess would be that gentle compression and good coverage would be helpful in preventing breast or truncal lymphedema as well as containing it once it develops.
Whippetmom, I hope that isn't too much of an intrusion on this excellent thread, and I apologize if it is. All pertinent, I hope.
Be well,
Binney0 -
Binney - absolutely not an intrustion! Thanks for sharing some wonderful information. I'm sure a lot of folks will really appreciate it!
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mlrbelle - I will second that Nordstroms is wonderful for bra fitting - I had a great experience. I drove about an hour to get to the store closet to me and I am glad I took the time to do so - I was way off base on the size I was wearing. It's amazing (to me anyway) how comfortable a correctly fitted bra feels.
Deborah - I love Sassybax and I use the wire-free to sleep in - very comfortable.
Denise
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Hi Binney - Thanks so much for that great explanation. I think it's a wonderful addition to this thread, and now I can better understand what's what as I shop (or choose not to) and exercise.
CS
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I bow down and pay honor to our bra whisperers! I went to the PS office yesterday for my 1 week f/u and he actually made the nurse check me in my bra! I got the ok from her with Wacoal Awareness and she said I need to be in it it 24/7 for the first month with one hour of "free" time a day so they can breathe. Apparently gravity is not an implants best friend. She liked the bra so much she is going to recommend it to other patients. Score 1 for the fitter at Nordstrom. I was wearing it during the day and sleeping in a softer less supportive bra at night. Now I need to invest in another Wacoal. I may pay ebay a visit. After a month- I can wear underwires and any bra I want.
Here is the imagery the nurse used to help me understand my bra's function. She told me I was like a delicate china plate that was put together and the bra is helping everything stay in its place. While I don't love being equated with a broken but fixed dish, it is providing the image to help me understand the importance of holding them in their pockets.
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