Survivors who have used only alternative treatments
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Privacy is each individuals prerogative and although I would like to know more details as well, I have to respect the fact that WOM has her reasons for not revealing details at this time. How I feel about it is immaterial. Probably belaboring my point so this is my last comment on privacy. Caryn
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Yes, I guess.
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checked orney(?) diet, few fatty acids, outmoded for some 30 years or so, checked owlsley stanley's diet, wanted to do so for awhile: all meat all the time; don't know what went wrong with jobs pancras, need more info probably, owsley just a crazy choice I'd think: moved to australia where there isn't much else to eat but meat
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abigail - Steve Jobs delayed surgery in favour of alternative treatment. By the time he realised it wasn't working and had the surgery, it was too late.
I really worry for you - please see about having surgery at least.
BTW in Australia our fresh food is far superior to the US and we don't eat only meat.
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in the outback?
please don't worry: not good
I would think surgery would if not spread the cells only postpone the bad part pf the trouble'
perhaps job didn't try the ornish therapy long enough: I've dheard you need to try a therapy for as long as hou were getting sick. that would tale me to age 121
as I've said before I couldn't work if my arm swelled, & I can't stand anyone touching me except my biker & he dead, & in bed for a week recovering from sergery I would weeken fast, to say nothing of being unable to eat hospital food. aint gonna happen, never say never but I can't think of a change that would lead me to it
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Sweetbean, WOM mentioned that she had Insulin Potentiated Therapy (IPT) and that a raw food diet is very much a part the protocol.
Certified IPT instructors, according to the U.S. list I found include:
Thomas Lodi, MD
Les Breitman, MD
Rick Linchitz, MD
Gus Kotsanis, MD
Juergen Winkler, MD
Brad Weeks, MD
*Steven Ayre, MD is retired
and is no longer training in IPT/IPTLDThis therapy is also used in other parts of the world like Austria and Germany, about 300 clinics worldwide. The video I posted earlier featured Dr. Thomas Lodi. He is in Arizona. I believe his clinic is An Oasis of Healing.
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too much raw food is indigestable except in juiceing form
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This site has a list of doctors around the world that use IPT
Insulin Potentiation Therapy IPTLD Alternative Cancer Treatment ...
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hello sweetie,we were and some going thru now are scared, But sweetie, please do all that is possible for you so you can give yourself the best chance at survival, take deep breaths and be Positive, honey have Hope, I was diagnosed while making wedding plans and I did 3 months, chemo before L mast, and then 3 months after surgery and then got married and then did the radiation, and 5 yrs on Tamoxifen. (idc, stage 2, 0/3 nodes involved) am now a 18 yr Survivor) Praise God, you and Us All will be in my prayers. msphil
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remember sunny von bulow? they used insulen for fun, ate a lot of carbs then took insulin to use them up. high tech bulimia. & sunny ended up comatose for decades
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abigail - surgery would not spread the cells - they cut around it, not into it. That's what surgical margins are all about.0
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they cut around it not into it unless they're clumsy. heard of a brain surgeon who had parkinson's. he did fine "for awhile"
next 2 days are 'rest days" for me
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Clinical trials for conventional treatments run for years before publishing even the most preliminary results. The same posters who have no problem at all with that are now demanding details from wornoutmom that she is not ready to share, especially on a public forum. Wornoutmom started this thread just over a year ago, looking for alternatives to conventional treatment. When she is five years or a decade out from diagnosis, maybe she will be ready share those details or maybe not, it is and will be her life and her choice.
How about extending to our sisters the same courtesy and time-frame we give conventional researchers?
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PatMom, conventional researchers do not make unsubstantiated claims. They WAIT until they have concrete evidence and then present their results. Maybe WOM should have done the same.0
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I know I said that I wouldn't comment on this again, but this is a privacy issue not conventional tx vs. alt. Privacy that we should all respect and not turn into anything more than that. Caryn
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I have to agree with sweetbean and yorkiemom~
How can you only give some information and then say that you will tell the whole story later, or maybe not? It just seems strange to me.
I would think you would want to shout something like this from the rooftops. I know when the Penguin Cold Caps worked for me it was hard for me not to tell every person I came across about my success.
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She did not say she would not tell, she said she was clearing this with her family.
She did not say she was cured, she said she is flourishing. Cure is a nondescript word. Health, to be safe in one's body, no symptoms, life force full.... my definition as of late.
No one has made an unsubstantiated claim. Smoke. My word for this is smoke.
SURGERY COMMENT - the positive margins are hopeful, expected.... if the bs is careless or unprepared or it just isn't your day, that is so true. Of course, I have had more knowledgeable bc patients than me tell me that the margins cannot really be controlled, due to this being not by sight alone, but by microscopic definition. There are threads. But I also learned that the choice for a quick freeze of the mass while patient is under, in order to identify the margins before ending surgery was a practice that my careless and unprepared but most highly respected surgeon in the area could have done before he left positive margins in me.
IPT THERAPY - my integrative MD is on the list for the IPT, but he does not do it now, a he is semi-retired, so he would refer me to a doctor not too far from here.
IPT and comatose - Abigail, you are a pistol! Yes, it is a possibility. But you are right there in the medical clinic, monitored, and they are not loading you up that much, they are doing what is needed to make the cells open their pores for their 'sugar' fix and then giving them chemicals instead. I do the same thing everyday with MSM and higly alkaline LIPH water, or MSM then colloidal silver, or MSM and olive leaf complex, or MSM then bloodroot extract. Nope, I would never attempt to play with my bloodsugar, would leave that to the experts.
So you will be painting the next few days, Abigail? I am packing and moving this week, so I can paint, too, at my new private healing place, it's like a vacation camp on the 80 acres in the middle of 4000 acres of woods, where I can relax, meditate, walk in the woods and use all the alternatives I can afford, one transition to the next. Away from this psudoestrogen pumping outside wood furnace pollution. I will be happy to read, sing and paint, write my book and stories again. And today a coffee farmer in Hawaii called to order organic fertilizer, so I may be back to work again sooner than later.
To me, that is living again.
I do hope WOM comes back very soon, I am so interested to hear more.
Diane (Essa) just taking a break from packing.
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First of all let me say we have had a family crisis (not with me) and that is my focus right now. I got a msg of where this tread is going. I have about 5 minutes while hubby is making dinner. As for coming out with my real name. I would like to see the others who judge me on this post their real names. Chances are if they did many of the bullies would disappear. I have 3 kids and live in a world you can find someones home just by knowing their name. Normally this wouldn't bother me but some of the people I see on here makes me question our families safely and they come first. I invite those who are so vocal about this to share their names.
As for my clinic I have been public and it can be tied to me which again leads me back to my first answer. I also would like to speak with my doctor. There are parts I don't recommend at this time and feel I must disclose this if recommending their organization. Not many patients are as involved in thier care as me. They have saved my life and are amazing it is just little stuff. I also fear others will take my protocol and use it with no expert to monitor them. My protocol is fitted to me with all my factors taken into consideration. Also I respect my doctor and don't think his years of work should just be handed over. It is a multi treatment approach. I would never deliberately hid this to keep others from getting help. I want to make sure I present it in a way that is respectful to my clinic and so that people do not think they can become their own doctor.
I am sorry but the reference to Steve Jobs should be addressed. NO ONE can say weather he would have lived if he had done chemo. Many die of the side effects and there is no way you could predict this. Secondly it is really stretched as pancreatic cancer is one there is very little success with. I believe it is deemed the worst cancer unless brain cancer is above this.
I have never said I am totally opposed to Standard medicine. I think that there are thousands of unnecessary prescriptions to mask symptoms instead of getting to the bottom of the cause. Gleevac is a traditional pill. My point is that they would have over prescribed treatment that could have left me with no mother. They also prescribed chemo, radiation, and bone marrow transplant which she declined. In that first round of patients she is the only one who survived she speaks directly to the makers! Her alternative choices allowed her to do so and allows her to thrive. No increase of her dose and no other treatments.
As for statistics and the science behind these treatments that again I think is the lip service of people hearing this argument and repeating it. Again do your own homework and don't rely on others to educate you. My clinics book is comprised of statistical data. MANY scientists and researchers have left standard medicine after their experiences. Pick up the book World Without Cancer. It shows how data can be skewed and altered to prove one's point. This can happen on all sides so everyone should be educated on this. I am working with a scientist now who has 30 years of research behind him! Most of us on here don't even really understand the data we are reading we just want to hear it has been done and have someone say it works based on this. There is so much more than just reading the results and agian see how it can be skewed. And I almost cracked up when someone mentioned that I could be selling something. I am his patient and doing fundraisers to get care so you can count me out on that one. I think my check book even laughed at that one
The idea that surgery can't spread cancer is probably the most ludicris thing I have heard. If it were true no fuhter treatment would be needed. That is why the other treatments are recommended. There is no way for them to know about cells that are to small for them to see. They do their best to get the margins but ultimately our testing isn't precise enough to see at certain levels. Many other countries are not so closed minded and do research. Also many of these clinics have stave IV patients that have exhausted the standard treatments before they arrive. I was given a 50-75% better chance( (depending on clinic) of success since I had not done this. If you don't believe me pick up the phone and call one. They will ask if you had treatment and see the response when you say no. They still have success dispute not only combating the cancer but cleaning up the mess the treatments caused. In order to compare you would have to eliminate all the stage 1 etc to be fair. You can't compare apples and oranges.
I am constanly traveling to get this treatment and raising three kids. I was gone for 3 months and am still picking up the pieces. If I am not on it is because I am on tilt trying to do all this. Much of my stress is having to fight for such treatment. I have to travel 2 full days just to get one day of treatment. This is the injustice of living in a county that doens't allow people to have choices when they are fighting for thier life. I am fighting for all of our right to choose and this is why I have considered speaking out. I want to help others have options and not suffer needlessly. My mom when taking Gleevac was losing liver functioning and they were going to stop prescribing it. Luckily someone in that office had an open mind and told her to go to a health food store and buy milk thisle. Over a decade later she is still on this medicine and her liver has no issues. All these treatments process through the liver. Why on earth would I not want to protect my liver regardless of where is comes from Standard medicne needs to address this issues and SE issues like this before it is to late. During my treatment a family friend who was under years of care for seizures lost her life because her liver gave out from the medicines. She was a young mother and I can't help but think what would have happened to her had she been given this option??? $5 a bottle and NO side effects why wouldn't I try it? And it ticks me off when regular oncs tell patients not to do this as it will interfere with their treatment rather than to be honest and say they don't know and prefer not to use it. How can they say this with no experience. Next time one tells you that you ask them what personal experience they have. Not articles but real experience.
I will continue to fight for us all! I love this "Stand up for what is right even if your standing alone". Many of us don't have that courage but I will not be one of them as I am driven to help others!
I love this song it fits me!! Darn I still can't post links =( Look up Bomshel Fight like a Girl on youtube
Humor a woman's shirt says "of course their fake my real ones tried to kill me
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My PET scan speaks volumes so before someone makes claims on me they should at least know me.
Also I have been screaming from the roof tops but here it is a different story I fear our safety as some people on here are quite cruel and it wouldn't surprise me if they tried to harm me out of thier own anger. The idea that someone can be so cruel about good health baffles me. I also have legal issues to address so I am not at liberty to just through out my name.
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Wornoutmom is considering going public...perhaps not through bco...She's an incrediable young lady.
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Listen, I never asked for anyone's name. I would not do that - that would be seriously socially awkward. I am interested in knowing what you are doing, however, especially since it is going so well. I am definitely not so interested that I would try to figure out who you are - I am only interested in successful treatments. However, if you don't want to tell anyone, then don't. I'll figure out my own way.
I think Steve Job's cancer was highly curable because they caught it super early. I know of another woman who caught early pancreatic cancer, had treatment, and is fine today. I think if he had even just had the surgery, he would still be around. But he went completely alt from the beginning and didn't remove the tumor (I think), so that was his downfall.
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And just for the record, I'm glad you are doing well. Also, I actually don't need a ton of double-blind studies for me to add an alt treatment into my regimen. As long as it is something that won't harm me, I'm likely to add it in if I can afford it. (Of course, I always go for the cheaper stuff first.) For example, there's still "conflicting" evidence on the power of diet, but I have seen enough positive studies to incorporate an anti-cancer diet as part of my strategy.
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We know you are not the aggressive type, Sweetbean. It's just that this thread has a long history as do most in the alt forums.
WOM - you really have grown through all this. I understand the need to take it lightly in disclosure, I can envision that to go public on bco with a clinic name could have huge ramifications. But to speak out in an objective manner to the public in general leaves it as media information, still a huge response, even more than a post on bco, but they could manage the repsonse if they knew it was coming, ie more phone lines and such. I get it. All about strategy.
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Ang7,
Shouting it from the rooftops is what you would do in a similar situation. Why is it so hard to believe that, for whatever reason, someone else would respond differently? Please let people be who they are, react as individuals and maintain whatever level,of privacy they choose. Caryn0 -
A PET sounds pretty concrete evidence to me even though it's hard to know exactly what caused the improvement. Any one treatment or diet or a combination of those could have caused the improvement. But if anyone wants to report on any improvement without any solid evidence then that is perfectly normal and acceptable. Gee, this is a support forum, not a science journal or contest!
Plenty of women claim their chemo killed any remaining cancer cells without any proof there were any cells to be killed and not knowing if they might have progression later on. We just accept it as how that person sees things without asking them to substantiate their claims. Let's end this requirement for WOM to prove herself and just be thankful she is using her precious time to keep us updated on her progress.
WOM, thanks so much for your generous contributions and please don't let the criticism put you off as there are many who are interested in your progress for all the right reasons.
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RESEARCH - go forth and read the alt threads and you will find research links and books and articles posted all over the place. You will also find people balking at this info, scoffing, harrassing, and swarming like bees to endlessly get their point across that in their opinion it is all bogus and ridiculous. Therefore, I stand by what I have stated earlier, go out there and start reading. Have questions, come back and ask specific ones. Ifannyone knows, we will give our experience, strength and hope.
WOM - I hope your family is pulling through.
JoyLW, I agree completely.
It's all just smoke.
Edited to alter my comment because I concede to the comment below this one..... it is not ALL just smoke, but unfortunately, some of it is.
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I do not think "it's all just smoke". I think it is genuine interest.
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I will be asking at my next visit and have to contact my representation. I don't fear going public it is just here. I do shout from roof tops just not on BCO's. I have already spoken publically and opened the door to kind people. It is the judgemental ones I don't want to waste my time on. Those who have never stepped foot in any alternative setting yet jump on their soap box and act as if they know everything their is about a subject they have had no experience in. It is sad as those few are the ones who have ruined it for all the others here.
You are entitiled to your opinion just as am I and everyone else on here. I just don't understand why on earth those who are so opposed and seem to know they have found their cure would even entertain this thread.
One peice of information I can share was my ability to prevent Lymphodema. I was okayed to excercise very shortly after my mastectomy. I did a step areobics routine that I use 5 lb weights with the whole 45minutes. (Please note this weight is after years of training). When I was at my clinic one of the ladies who was working on me, an RN I might add who was cured of another disease that is considered incurable, was shocked at my range of motion. As you see I lost 10 lymph nodes. I attribute this to my routine and she seemed to agree. So if you have had lymph node removal recently I would suggest you take the excercises serirously. I do have some numbness but no swelling and full range of motion.
One other thing if you are interested in the raw diet please look more into it. There was a reference to you not being able to digest raw food. There are some foods that don't digest (corn for example) but not all that is only part of the information and misleading. It is actually the opposite as you are preserving the digestive enzymes and are flooding the body with full nutrition. After transitioning processed foods made me sick and I could taste the chemicals. Some foods I loved are now gross. I also noticed that I ate much less as my body got what it needed.
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I've been thinking (rather dangerous) that if you have recieved some miracle treatment, wouldn't it be the right thing to do to share it with the other Stage IV members on this site.
2nd diagnosis October 2010 - IDC 5.8mm node negative - missed on mammogram in October 2009
Diagnosis: 10/13/2009, ILC, 1cm, Stage I, Grade 3, 0/5 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2+0 -
interesting about the Lymphedema, WOM. I did something similar, in that I started exercising almost immediately after my surgery. The day after they released me from the hospital (BMX and ALND), I went for a mile walk. A slow mile walk, but a mile walk. Each day, I increased it. I had read on BCO that someone surmised that your lymph system needed to heal as it was working - if you didn't exercise, it might heal closed and then wouldn't work as well.
(Full disclosure - I also had Reverse Arm Mapping, which is a cutting edge procedure that I believe will prevent lymphedema. I also think it will be standard in a few years. Search the board for my description. It's so new that there aren't any clinical trial studies, but the follow-up evidence was compelling enough for me. Like I said in an earlier post, I actually don't need stuff to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. I definitely didn't want to be kicking myself six years down the road, knowing that I passed on the procedure.)
Anyway, I agree that exercise can be key. I had radiation as well, but still have full range of motion.
I also think incorporating a lot of raw foods is very helpful. If you don't like raw broccoli (like me!), you can juice and get the nutrients that way. I don't actually eat a raw diet, but I bet my diet is about 60-70% raw, so that is pretty good.
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