A place to talk death and dying issues
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Yes, I think my DH will definitely remarry. He enjoys the company of women and I think men don't do 'companionship' like we do. I'd like to think of him being happy and enjoying his golden years.
What bothers me though is another woman spending my children's inheritance... My parents died in the last few years and I received a legacy. Legally, DH is entitled to inherit the family home and all its contents, all joint accounts plus a third of everything I own. He can dispose of that exactly how he wishes. So the new wife would in turn be half owner of our home plus our savings and part of my 'family' legacy.
So while I have no problem with DH having a new relationship, I want my share of our things to be held in trust and to go to my sons eventually, not some other person who had nothing to do with our family life together.
Is this thinking insane?
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Aoibheann~you are not insane at all. In fact, your thinking is very much rational, sane and logical. You are wise to take care of that now if you can.
I have told my husband I don't care if he marries the day after I pass, but I want any money/house/savings to go to our son. I have even told him, half-jokingly, that I would come back and haunt him if he allows a woman to come in and take it all. It's not that we are wealthy, but still, what we have, the bulk should go to our son and a portion of that to DH's son from a previous marriage.
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I've been separated from my son's father for some time now so I'm not in the same position most of you are in. I just wanted to add my opinion that the things built during the marriage should go to the children of that union after the death of both parents, because that usually was the intention in the first place. My son's father, he's a chauvinist, believes that sons should inherit everything when the father dies and then the sons take care of the mother. Basically, the wife doesn't inherit anything...which is one of the reasons we're not together. As for daughters, when they marry they are taken care of by their husbands. If they don't marry, heaven forbid, then the brothers take care of them like they do their mother. Since I only have a son with him, my son is listed in his will as the beneficiary. I don't care since I took care of myself anyway and I know my son will always be there for me. So if he was to marry..again will never happen since he has commitment issues which is why we never married either, he would never leave her anything. Also, at the age of 75, he's never been married and doesn't want more children. I've always thought it was wrong for a couple to build up an estate and then when one dies and they remarry they leave the new spouse everything. Again, this is just my opinion but it seems like an abandonment of the children from the previous marriage.
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Ladies,
Put your wishes in writing as part of a witnessed legal document. Then you won't have to depend on your husbands or other survivors to remember what you want or trust them to follow your verbal directives. My partner and I have wills and trusts that spell out which people and organizations get our (remaining) money and earthly goods, such as they are. Every so often we make amendments and tweaks to the documents, but the important basics are in place. It's a pain to do initially, and can be wrenching, but a real relief when it's done. Then you know there can be no question about whether your wishes will be fulfilled.
Tina
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I just wanted to add as an example. I had a friend who had 2 children from a previous marriage. When he died, the family home that his parents left to him when they died, was left to her. He didn't have a will (he was only 56 when he died and obviously didn't feel he needed a will yet or just didn't get to it) so as his wife she got everything. She already said that when she dies, she is leaving the home to her son and daughter. In fact, the son moved in right after her husband died. So the family home that his parents wanted to go to their grandchildren (they stated that many times), is no longer the family home. It's sad because that home of part of their family for over a hundred years. They wouldn't want her to be homeless and would have let her live out her life there but to lose the house altogether was rough. In fact, her husband told his sister-in-law, that was what he wanted. She mentioned this to my mother one time so that's how we knew. Of course, the sister-in-law recanted after he died.
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I agree with TIna..spell it out and update it as needed. That way you can see that your needs are met and your children get what you want them to get.
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It's a difficult one to address. My DH got very insulted when I brought up the subject and said that he'd never remarry and refused to discuss it. I still have to make a will and I wonder if there's any point putting in my wishes, even though legally I cannot control what he does, or would that be hurtful. He is being very kind to me and I don't know how I'd cope without him. Btw we're not wealthy either but I feel strongly that our children should inherit what we, and especially I, have.
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Please check out the Federal ERISA law. At times it over-rides wills and last wishes. It was put in place to protect wives who were (previously) left destitute. When my dad died, his wife of 1 year got everything (over 1 million in retirement money and assets) and she gave us (his 5 grown children) nothing. And we had no legal leg to stand on. Now he didn't make a will either but we got a lawyer who told us that, in my dad's case, ERISA would have over-ridden his will for his retirement money.
My dad had another small life insurance policy with just my one brother on it and ERISA didn't affect that. He was allowed to keep it and he shared it with the rest of us.
So this is one place where I think lawyers are really needed if you want to be sure who's getting what.
Teri
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Teri, that was so wrong and unfair. That's what worries me. I'm in Ireland and the law here is that widow/widower automatically inherits family home, all money in joint accounts plus one third of spouse's assets, regardless of will or wishes. Also if you die intestate your spouse ultimately inherits everything. I'm not sure what the position is if people co-habit but I'm sure they have rights to property after a time. Time to talk to a lawyer. I don't feel like the hassle though...
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It's surprising that someone 56 years old thinks they still have forever to make up a will. My DH and I made one years ago when our son was small and named guardians for him in case anything happened to both of us. We were able to figure out how to divy any assets out at that time as well.
Again, I don't mean to be rude here, these are just my own personal observations and warped as they may be, I feel more comfortable mentioning them on this thread than speaking elsewhere about them.........but I noticed about the time that I hit 50, more and more of the people that I'd graduated with from high school were starting to pass away. It was a class of over 200, so there are still many of us left. But there was a remarkable difference in the rate of classmates dying after that 50 year point; guys having heart attacks, women and men with various cancers, some deaths due to accidents or life long diseases like diabetes finally catching up to them, ect. Just this week, one classmate died from kidney cancer. What gets me is that she was diagnosed about the time I was with bc.
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I agree with you TheDivineMrsM. Everyone should have a will especially if they have children. I think most people don't make one because they either don't want to think about it (the ole head in the sand thing) or they think they will live a long life and have plenty of time to worry about that. Some also convince themselves that their families would do the right thing. They forget that people often have different ideas of what the right thing is.
So sorry Teri. Some people have no morals. To rob children of their inheritance is disgusting, especially when the inheritance is quite large and more than enough to share with everyone. It's just plain greed.
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Interesting that everyone feels the same way. I also want my husband to marry and worry (since I have seen it before in other relationships, family) some stunningly ugly nasty "takings" from people. Nothing brings out the uglies like inheritance and assests, wills and property.
I also want "our moneys" from our families to go to "our" kids and not someone who marries "in"! After being married for nearly 25 years it only seems right. I have even contemplated taking my life insurance and putting it into trust for the kids. The problem with doing that is it sends a message of distrust and misgivings that your husband won't honor your wishes. But folks are manipulated by newcomers and lets face it you aren't there to put your 2 cents in. I don't know if getting a will will protect long term. I have watched just awful behavior in our own family.
I remember my Grandmother's 3rd husband (first died cancer, second MI) told me that he would give me a cherished family secretary desk that had been in his family for years. I asked him why would you do that? He said, "you flew out to help us, paid your way, painted our rooms and helped your Grandma for 10 days. My kids won't do that for us." I mentioned that his Grandson came over every week, mowed their lawn, took out the trash, did all weatherization every year and had for years! I said I really think you should leave it to him. I felt after their health issues that it was an honor to help my Grandma, for 10 days. I spent many summers with her.
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That 3rd husband doesn't sound like he was thinking straight. And face it, sometimes men look to impress women. It's their nature. I don't think they're as connected relationship-wise the way women are, and just don't 'get it' sometimes. Then on the other hand, to some people, things are just 'stuff' and the stuff doesn't have meaning to them the way it does for others. Sometimes, too, family take for granted what their loved ones do for them. My MIL never notices all my husband does for her, but let his siblings who live away do the tiniest thing and she's full of praise and brags about them.
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I am also concerned about protecting my kids inheritance from the "new wife" and my husband agrees. My will will not accomplish what I need it to, unless I leave assets to my children at the time of my death. I don't want to do that. So, in order to protect the assets, we will put them into a trust that states he is the trustee when I pass and when he passes, the assets are to be disbursed to our children. I have gotten legal advice on this....I live in California.
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Romansma - Is there a particular name to this Trust? I think we should get legal counsel to set one up as well. I just don't want the hard work of our parents, Aunts and Uncles who have given to our family to end up benefitting a stranger. No one knows when they might die. DivineMrs is right as folks enter their 50s they seem to go rather alarmingly fast, some with out warning and of unexpected causes. It only makes sense to have things set up to benefit your children and not a newlywed of 1 year like what Teri described.. awful. I mean I am sure the woman deserved something but the whole thing? No. I want our kids to have help with down payments on homes, college, weddings etc. Being that they are only 20,18 and 12, we have time to go yet. My husband is by nature conservative and generous. If he is alive and well, I know things will be fair and lovingly dispersed. It's if he isn't, well or alive.
We also have a disabled child and need a trust for her needs. (The state will pay for glasses and a optometrist. We want her to see a ophthalmologist because she's a Rubella baby. Being deaf we are very concerned about her eye sight. We want her cochlear implant covered and the state won't do that either. She needs certain things that are not fully covered by Medicaid.) It still fries me that we had to pay for legal guardianship for our daughter to do the very things we have done for 20 years! We have to file reports with the courts etc...amazing. But who would just dump their kid to strangers? Really..
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I believe it's called a Living Trust.
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Bon , as usual you come with great info. Please, transfer to pg 25, 26. In Toto versus link. God bless you Bonnie, L&H&P' s Sheila
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Ladies, my husband and I just did this. He set up what is called a "marital QTIP trust". If he dies before me I get the use of the money (with some stipulations) and after I die the funds go to his son.
Aoibheann, you should have a will. You can do that without your husband's OK. I understand about Irish law, but if he agreed, some of the money now in joint accounts could be put in your name. Then when you die it can either go directly to your kids, or he could have use of the money in his lifetime afterwards it goes to the kids.
I'm sorry if he refuses to talk about it, but it really does need to discussed.
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is there a thread for thoughts of where to die? I do not want to die in my husbands bed. When the time comes where can i go outside if the home?
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I had a friend who recently died under Hospice care. He was in a hospital bed in the family room of his home, where he could receive visitors, watch television, etc. I thought that is what I'd like to do.
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bhd, I cannot say what I want at this time, altho the thought has crossed my mind briefly a few times. In our area, there is a floor a the local hospital for hospice patients. So that might be a possibility.
When my dad passed away in the late '90s, he was at his home which was my childhood home where all us kids grew up. Hospice people came in for about a month and us kids took turns being with him. He stayed in another bedroom other than the one him and my mom shared for years. (My mom had already passed away in a nursing home), one reason being it was closer to the living room and kitchen where he could move to during the day if he wanted.
Is something like that possible for you? Not to be in your husband's bed but elsewhere in the home? I have to say, having my dad at his home was so much more preferable that that nursing home where my mom died. And there were no creepy feelings about it after he passed. Everyone gathered there during the days leading up to his funeral and for a few days after. Then we rented the house for years, going in occasionally to clean or make repairs, and it never bothered any of us.
Of course, everyone has their own take on this, but for me, it was a peaceful, tho deeply sad, experience.
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I've thought about where i want to die too and I've decided if possible to die in the hospice. I've met the hospice home nursing team and I've told them I don't want to die at home. I don't want my family to have to take care of me when I am dying. I would prefer to think they could come and go from the hospice without the responsibility of looking after my nursing needs when the time comes. I dread becoming incontinent or any of the other ghastly things that can happen. Also I don't want them to have to deal with organising the removal of my corpse and my body being messy and them having that as a last memory of me. As it is they find if hard to remember pre-cancerous me even though it's been only 17 months since my dx. I know from dealing with the deaths of my parents how the last couple of years of their decline has stayed with me, over-riding hosts of other memories when they were fit and active. So I don't want my care and the house (if I get one before I die) to be tinged with my death and horrible memories. On a practical note I presume one would have access to more drugs to relieve pain and suffering if one was an inmate of the hospice rather than relying on homecare..
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I think the family can be torn about the amount of time spent with you when you are not at home. I have kids and I think they will find comfort in knowing I am at home and they can check in with me throughout the day and not have to leave me. I agree the aftermath is tough, but there are ways to deal. I think this is a very personal decision and both ways have merit.
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Aiobheann, you make some good points. I also don't want my family to have to deal with my possible incontinence, having to bathe me, etc. I may choose to go to a Hospice facility at the very end. I'll stay home as long as I can take care of my basic needs. I don't want my family to remember me the way I'm afraid I'll end up.
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This is a hard one. I had BC, and Dh dx'd with advanced Lymphoma 3 months after me. He passed Aug 20th 2010.
Discharged home with Hospice Wed night Aug.18th 8:30 pm, not a good night, but not out of control. We put a catheter in in am. From say 5am until 6 pm---Dh went through the most uncomfortable painful situation I'd ever seen in nursing in 40 years.
1 RN, 1Lpn, 2 nursing assistants------- and I'm a nurse. I'll say it here versus later. It sucked that I had to do most of the problem solving that day. I'm not a control freak, but they weren't responding fast enough to a progressively uncontrolled situation. His situation--- his tumors could grow to golf ball size in a matter of hours, they were all around the spinal nerves and pushing I'm sure on the bladder>...and growing
Freguent med increases during day. I felt he was demonstrating bladder spasms(described above), b/c as soon as he'd lay on his back he felt the need to get up to go. No convincing him that he had a cath in. The doc ordered Belladonna and Opium suppositories @ my request. They were on there way. I flashed that it was everytime he layed on his back the urge came and pain. I had him sit on bed and lay down on his side, bringing his legs up at the same time----didn't let him roll on back. He was asleep in a few minutes. He never woke up again. Fri, at 12:30 am he passed. He was completely comfortable those last 6 1/2 hours.
Do over: I'd of chosen a hospice facility-----more access to change of plan in meds. I wouldn't have had to act like a nurse. versus wife. He was in decent enough control when he came home. What no one could predict was how it would change. His situation was unique b/c of where his tumors were and how they could so rapidly grow. Since it was the most uncontrolled 12 hours I'd ever seen in 40 years, I will hazard a guess that he WAS at the far end of the extreme.
The nurses were calling hourly for med changes. It wasn't like they weren't trying. But again in a do over I would have given him the oxy he asked for, instead of letting them titrate up on the morphine. The more uncontrolled the situation became, the more I took over and directed. It worked. I know someone reading this will have a negative opinion about this, but I'm a hell of a problem identifier and solver.
If he had a peaceful death at home, maybe my feelings would be different. What he experienced wasn't predictable, therefore, a plan wasn't in place. A regular hospice plan was in place. Our hospice has what they call a crisis team which allows for the up-staffing of personnel. That's why there were so many here. They added two over the course of the day starting after shift change in am------and aide, then another nurse. The crisis team had been established approximately 2 years before in a similar situation. But again, being repetitive, they had not been in such uncontrolled situation. I had ER/ OR/ Paramedic background.
I still have flashbacks.........
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Sas, if you're in a Hospice facility, is your family allowed to be with you whenever they want? My sister is a nurse, and smarter than anybody. If she's with me, would she be allowed to do medical procedures?
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Sas, I am glad you shared your experience here as I was under the impression that for home hospice, there would be increasing help as needed, just to allow one to die at home, with hospice care, in comfort. But no one can predict how quickly situations change, especially in the last hours of life, and although I still think I don't want to be in-patient hospice, your experience gave me pause and some additional factors to consider.
I DO think it is easier on family to "drop by" if one is at home, but that is probably more of a consideration earlier on. I actually don't even WANT my family hanging around at the last bit, but also don't want to die alone. I'm pretty sure DH will be there for me, but I know that having family in and hanging around takes a lot of energy - have been dealing with many siblings who want to help, and I am very grateful for that, but it can also be overwhelming when I really just want to go take a nap, but they are here to help get tasks done .... maybe it is just me being a control freak and I am unable to delegate tasks still yet! And we are having a great time together, making up for many years when we could NOT get together because of jobs, children, etc. Kids are all in college, get more vacation days/year than earlier in our careers, etc. I still don't want them to see me incontinent and not looking like ME ....
Talked to my PCP about hospice this week. MO says new chemo is working, so am giving it a little more time, but I got lots of questions answered about the various hospice programs available in this area. Basically she told me that when I am ready, to call HER and she and her staff will help get the process going - I don't have to make direct calls to anyone. I just have to check with my insurance to see which programs are covered.
Final thought: I REALLY REALLY don't want to die in a hospital bed. I HATE hospital beds. Maybe they will let me use the guest chair if it is in-patient ....
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My dear aunt passed away this past Monday of lymphoma. She was 93 and her only son and I only found out about her diagnosis about three weeks ago when we noticed swollen glands. She was in the hospital for two days and just wanted to go home, so hospice home care was arranged and her son took a leave of absence from his job to care for her. Everything was manageable for about two weeks, but on Sunday things changed dramatically. I did not know that things could change that quickly. I stayed at her home that night to help my cousin as my aunt became very agitated and combative. At 88 lbs. she began kicking and screaming, with arms flailing and the two of us could barely hold her down. When the nurse came on Monday morning, she suggested a transfer to a hospice center. She was transported at 10:30am and died at 9:20pm. I wasn't able to get to the hospice center that evening and thought that she would last through the night, but my cousin said that her hospice room resembled a hotel room with a low to the ground bed. I heard that many hospice centers are now using these low beds instead of hospital beds because it lessens the chance for the patient to fall out of bed. This hospice center had no strict visiting hours .. visitors could come and go 24 hours a day. The staff could quickly make decisions to change her meds as needed. This is now something I would consider for the final days of my life.
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thanks for the Hospice information. It's especially good to know visitors can come and go 24/7.
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I've had two family experiences with hospice care in Buffalo and Lockport NY. Both were excellent. First was my grandmother who I lived with and helped as her primary hospice caregiver back in 1985. Hospice brought in nurses, social workers, physical therapists for the 4 weeks at the end of her life. As her caregiver, I did help turning her in bed, making her meals, helping her in and out of bed and also to the toilet. The nurses did other care and made sure her pain was under control. At the end they were there more often, always answered phone calls immediately. My grandmother died in her own bed, surrounded by her children and grandchildren. My father also died in our family home, I helped somewhat, but being the youngest of six, and his "little girl" he wouldn't let me help with anything too personal. I will never forget one night, two days before he died, I was on the night shift and I had to give him morphine drops - I was supposed to give him two, but gave him 3 instead by accident (it was dark and hard to see." I said to my sister-in-law "I think I might have killed dad..." We both laughed - then cried - a bit of dark humor. He died when I was driving back from my apartment - I knew the moment and drove up to the house 20 minutes later - my brother said "dad died 20 minutes ago..." From these experiences, I hope to die in my home, probably in a hospital bed in our living room. But if I need to go to a hospice facility, we have 2 freestanding ones in Buffalo, plus 3 dedicated ones in nursing homes (one that I work at that is being formed right now, I'm working on the marketing - how ironic is that?) I hope to be surrounded by my family and with my beloved fiance' (hopefully husband by the time I die!) I've made a list of songs to play at my memorial service, started my funeral plans, have a will, health care proxy and power of attorney. So, at 48 I'm pretty prepared to die. It makes it easier for me to live fully, knowing I'm not leaving this all to chance...
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