I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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I thank you for that, as someone just considering the option. I would like to be where you are, internally but I'm just beginning to feel the feelings of relief, and yes you are so right--breast cancer is not about boob jobs…Keep writing, it's very very important….
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Since I was very flat chested before BMX I don't look a whole lot different now, whether I got flat or wear a little stretchy bra with a bit of fiberfill in the pockets. But I did get to thinking about others who have had body parts amputated, limbs, full or partial. Some wear a prosthetic others don't, some use crutches or a wheelchair. Society is very accepting of that. Yet I'm not sure how accepting society is for us who have had mastectomies, which are amputations. It seems we are made to feel we need to cover it up, pretend it didn't happen, not let it show...?
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vintage gal,
My thoughts exactly. We teach our kids not to tease others who have visible physical or emotional differences, but I feel in many ways we are encouraged/expected to hide this. I admit I'm conflicted about wearing foobs, and I probably will sometimes, but intellectually I have a problem with it. I have a colleague who is a rad tech who has been talking to me with the assumption that I'll eventually do reconstruction, despite my statements that I probably won't.
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VintageGal and Lojo,
My feeling about wearing breast forms is that I don't want to be defined by my lack of breasts any more than I wanted to be defined by them when I had them. So I choose to wear small breast forms when I'm out and about -- I'd rather not draw attention to my flatness. At home, with my family, I'm perfectly comfortable going flat. And I refuse to compromise comfort for the appearance of breasts -- I generally wear unweighted foam forms in a camisole.
Lojo, I know what you mean about intellectually having a problem with it -- I do, too, but have made my peace with that. I have gone public with my non-reconstruction choice through my BreastFree.org website, so I'm certainly not in the closet. I just don't want the first thing people notice about me in person to be my flat chest.
I actually think I might feel the same way if I lost a limb, say a leg. I might choose to wear slacks rather than a skirt. That way, the first thing people noticed about me wouldn't be my lack of a leg.
I realize that many of you on this thread feel differently, that it's meaningful for you to go flat and not to camouflage your flatness, even with scarves, jackets, etc. I respect and even admire that choice -- it seems to me an example of how our responses to a mastectomy reflect our different personalities.
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I remember back when the word breast was never used in public. So even to be able to discuss breast cancer is a relatively new phenomenon. Women who had mastectomies couldn't even talk about it and men never did, of course. I feel for all the women who had to go through treatment without the kind of support we have. I think the move not to reconstruct will gain momentum, especially as there is more honesty about all the pitfalls.
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I'm 5 days post-op BMX (still with drains - yuk!) and went out today flat as can be! Love being flat & free...no one seemed to even notice.
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Interesting conversation and a really good read!
I have a slightly different slant on this, I think a lot has to do with the person, who's doing the looking.
Just an example.......
I have a husband who is a C5/6 Quadriplegic from a hang gliding accident when he was a few months short of his 21st birthday. He is a super intelligent, very stubborn quad, who, refuses to be told he can't do things. Although he is in a wheelchair, has never, not worked, is a champion sailor, recently gave up sit water skiing and used to snow ski. He is designer, runs an online business, since semi retiring. Is on committees and runs forums, builds websites. The list goes on and on.
The point I am making here, is that we can be out in company or indeed just shopping and the thing that makes my blood boil, is that people will address me, over the top of him, or some will shout at him as though he has a brain injury. It happened all the time when we were out sourcing fixtures for out last home, which he designed and drew up on CAD. I always step back and say, he is the designer, talk to him, I haven't a clue about the workings of such things! It offends me that I have to do this, to play the dumb one, because people have such skewed ideas about disability, or something that is a little different.
I also belong to a great BC group here in my small town, we have all ages, Dx and Unis as well as those who have had a BMX. Interestingly, only 1 of a group of 17 have had recon, but I digress. We have some who go flat and fabulous and have absolutely no issue with it, or even notice that anyone is staring at them. There is one gorgeous girl who is a Uni, and doesn't feel the need to wear any form. I have been going to that meeting for more than a year and it was only recently, that I discovered this gal was a Uni! Even I, hadn't noticed, and I am pretty breast aware these days.
Even I, have been known to go form free, with a firm tank to hold things together:) Not something I thought I would ever do, but I take the dog for a long walk and I like the way it feels to not have to wear a bra or a form, I do wear a jacket, so I am not actually flaunting my lopsidedness. I haven't noticed anyone looking, but I have decided, that just like the people who can't see Colin for who he is, I will just deal with them, if it ever happens to me.
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I really appreciate this discussion. I think about things like this all the time. I choose to go flat 99% of the time, but I can't say I am comfortable with it. I often grab a scarf, or I notice my posture is now strong with shoulders back. Yet when I wear foobs, they hurt, and I feel not myself.
I think one of the issues here is breasts are a sexual thing for most...so it is an amputation, but one of a sexual nature. So we end up missing our breast, as well as the self esteem they gave to us, even a sexual confidence perhaps It is complicated.
I do think if I lost my nose or ear, I would want a fake one...but yet I am not attracted at all to the 4 recon jobs I have seen, they were not pretty or sexy to me....
Well, I am saying nothing, I just don't understand why I am not confident flat and not confident with foobs...
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crystal
I am only one month post BMX. So I am still getting used to all his....seeing my chest every day is humbling. It ain't pretty but it's me. Being bald doesn't help!
I was very small breasted, ok flat, anyway. I wore genie or stretch bras with the thin foam insert before BMX. I am now wearing the stretchy bras with the liner (from WalMart 5.88) but add some fiberfill into the opening on the side. It gives me just enough so I don't look totally flat & in clothes I look the same as before.
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Sexual amputation--being 44 and 18 months beyond the bmx, I am YEARNING for breasts again. (My foobs are beautiful, but I don't like to wear them, EVER.)
Cancer has taught me it is a GREAT LUXURY to be 85% pain free on most days. But I have not dared to go back to work (teacher) since the bmx. I feel like a freak. I simply can't look into a mirror or a reflective window if I'm in public; it exacerbates the issues I'm having about how I look.
My husband is very supportive regarding all of this.
Socio-politically, I'm totally aligned with going flat.
Viscerally and instinctually, I'm considering a DIEP flap. I'm reaching out to this group because you all are who I bonded with when the crap hit the fan 18 months ago. Without you, I would have been lost. Are you willing to discuss the sexual amputation aspect more? I feel neutered. Asexual. Like a transvestite, even.
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btw--and this is very important--I think you are beautiful just the way you are!
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Hi happyraccoon,
I'm not sure I have much advice, but I just want to let you know I am so sorry you're feeling like this. A few things to consider about the surgery -- my understanding is that although the DIEP breasts look and feel (in hand) like breasts, you still won't have normal sensation (if that is source of the problems). But, it sounds like it's more of a self-acceptance body image issue, or possibly hormonal imbalance (hello tamoxifen!) or depression (or all of the above). The ladies on the recon site who have had delayed recon should be able to tell you if having reconstruction changed their sexual self image. But, have you considered talking to a therapist? Many women are very happy with their reconstruction and it might be the road for you, but you might look into antidepressants or changes to your tamoxifen treatment.
Personally, although I've been out of commission for rads, I've come to not only accept this new body but like it. You have to find something you can live with, which might mean reconstruction for you.
Hugs
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Raccoon, I am sorry you are going through this. The bitch of it is that foobs, stick-ons or built-ins, probably are not the real answer. Cancer treatment does a real number on sexuality. My feeling is that it has to be won back, by any and all means possible. Maybe, for you, having recon will be one of those means. But I think the key is to reconnect with who you are as a sexual being. Do they have a psych at your cancer unit you could talk to?
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Erica, as always, I appreciate & connect with your comments.
I don't go out without make-up or fixing my hair - not because I want people to think I look nice, but because I want to blend in and look average. I feel the same way about my breast forms. I just want to look typical; I don't have the kind of personality that wants to stand out or make a statement one way or another.
That said, I feel so lucky that wearing silicone forms with a long-line fitted bra is more comfortable for me than going flat - and even more comfortable than when I had real (larger) breasts. A snug bra keeps fabric from irritating the skin around my scars, and the weight of the forms helps me feel natural and balanced. I can't imagine any amount of surgery making me feel better than I do now, & I'm so happy not to invest the time & money necessary for recon.
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HappyRaccoon, Good for you for talking about this. I am flat on one side 4 years now, the other side 2 and I rarely wear foobs.
But I met a woman yesterday who was just saying this really is all up to the individual. She felt personally, when she looks down, she wants to see "breasts" so she wears size A foobs. It made me think, because I am not completely mentally in sync with seeing flat all the time. Just like what was said up above, I put make-up on every day, I fix my hair....and we all have to come to terms if we need the (unfeeling) breasts to be in place or not.
I agree you should poke around the recon boards, see what they have to say. you have the right to be happy no matter what cancer took away.
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Fabulous, inspiring Canadian lady
(not a BC story but a BBC story
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I have just gone back to work this week, 4 weeks after my second mastectomy. I am not wearing prostheses and do not intend to. Today I was talking to a breast cancer nurse and she didn't even notice I was flat until I pointed it out (I work at a hospital - not the one where I am treated). Later the same day I was talking to someone else who commented on how well I was looking and that I must have been a good holiday. She didn't believe me about the cancer and mastectomies until I stood up, turned sideways and flattened out my jumper! She had been talking to me for 20 minutes and had not noticed a thing. I am even beginning to forget that I am flat - will be easier when the last of the stiffness and oedema has gone.
What is my point? It is that most people just don't notice. I think women with large breasts would get far more stares. Do what makes you happy, not anyone else.
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I can echo SuC and OncoWarrior re no-one notices. That is totally my experience too, and I am a UNI.
Yaay for that man at the athletics club!!
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Im a uni w DD left, people rarely notice when I go half flat!
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So excited to see this thread. I seriously thought I was alone in this. Before and after the double mastectomy, everyone was asking me if I was going to have reconstruction. My mom even offered to pay for them. It just didn't seem all that important. I don't know why, but it just didn't. I went from a 36DD/E to FLAT. Deep grooves in my shoulders were the only sign that I carried that extra weight, and now they are gone. Maybe I'm nuts, but what a HUGE relief! Now, clothing fits great, and I don't miss them a bit and I don't want new ones. My shoulder grooves still show, but I imagine it will take a while before they disappear.
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Happyraccoon, I have to tell you that after I decided to go flat, and pretty happy with my decision, I did consider the sexual aspect. Not to sound crude, but the idea that my husband would no longer make love to my chest bothered me a bit. Even as a breast feeding fool to 5 children, it wasn't just my sexuality that played a part in my life. My youngest daughter said when she felt bad or had a bad day, she liked snuggling up to me and laying her head on my "pillows". LOL It was the child in her. On another note, I did consider some fakies to stuff into a bra because I was concerned that others might think I was a transsexual or sexless. Of course, everyone laughed when I mentioned this, but it seriously crossed my mind. I think that what you are experiencing is perfectly normal and that after 18 months, you have had plenty of time to consider what you need as a woman.
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I read an interesting piece on Medscape about double mastectomy delaying chemo, but the part that jumped out at me was the percentage of this study that had reconstruction:
"Sharpe and colleagues used the National Cancer Data Base to study the effect of bilateral mastectomy for early-stage breast cancer on length of hospital stay, readmission rate, 30-day mortality, and time to adjuvant therapy. They reviewed the records of over 300,000 women who had mastectomy as the primary surgical modality. Of these, 81% had unilateral mastectomy (UM) and 19% opted for bilateral mastectomies (BM). A total of 25% of the sample underwent reconstruction."
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Wow! That's interesting. It's sure not the story we hear from the PS.
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Wren, as far as I know the recon rates have gone up a fair bit in the last 10 years, especially for patients in major cities.
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When I read people's comments about how unhappy they are with the results or how much the TE's etc hurt, I'm so glad that I didn't even consider going thru that. Perhaps I'd feel different if I were 30.
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