Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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Klanders, may I ask what the supplement names are? Thx.
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This link was posted in another forum and I found it very interesting for the supplements used in this study.
http://ivfbreastcancer.com/study/
edited to add this article
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag96/96jan1e.htm
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cp Thanks, excellent info . I know dhea is controversial, but seems it matters whether one is pre or post meno. Going to continue researching this.
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Wow, those are some interesting links, cp418. Thanks for sharing!
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Hi All, it's a long list! First, have your vitamin d levels checked (any doc can order this). My naturopath says every woman she has seen with cancer has low vitamin D levels. I was at 9 - now I'm up to 85. I take 1 50,000 pill once a week but you could just take something daily, too. She recommended I take CDG EstroDIM. This is super pricey but from all my research it seems to be the best. She also wanted me to take 1 Molybdenum 500mg, 1 Lithium Orotate 5mg, and i-Throid 6.25mg. Those are all the "must haves." I've added a bunch with my own research - I take super bio-curcumin, green tea extract, and grape seed. Plus 3,000mg of fish oil and a multivitamin. It's a lot - particularly since I have never been fond of taking pills.
Regarding estrogen test - I asked my oncologist for it and it was a simple blood test. Hope this helps. I am one year out from my original diagnosis and I feel great. But I'm not a doctor and each person has to decide what is best for herself.
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klander, what is the lithium for?
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I looked up the CDG Estrodim and it looks like a nice combination product of Calcium D Glucarate, DIM and Indole 3 Carbinole - which I currenty take as 3 separate pills. i-Throid is an iodine supplement. The naturalpath may have reasons for the other supplments as an individual patient basis because I don't see references for BC use.
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I had read something about lithium orotate evenly distributing the iodine. I don't know though.
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You got me interested in the lithium Orotate, Klanders. I just read this on a curezone.com forum:
Jonathan V. Wright, M.D. states in his one of his newsletters, "Medical experts at one time believed that once our brains matured, it was all downhill from then on. Decades of autopsies, x-rays, and, more recently, brain scans have repeatedly shown that brains shrink measurably with aging. But, according to their report in the Lancet, Wayne State University (Detroit) researchers found that lithium has the ability to both protect and renew brain cells.(2) Eight of 10 individuals who took lithium showed an average 3 percent increase in brain grey matter in just four weeks."
Forget the BC, if it can help my poor pathetic brain, I'm in!
Light, I think you are right, the same site mentioned that Lithium (Aspartate) spreads Iodine more evenly in the body.
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Isn't lithium the drug used for people who are bipolar? I heard it has a ton of side effects.
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dogsandjogs, there appear to be several different forms of lithium, with lithium citrate and lithium carbonate being prescription drugs and lithium orotate and lithium aspartate being sold as supplements. I really don't know why the FDA makes the distinction between the different forms, though. You are right about lithium being used for bipolar disorder.
I have run across a letter to a scientific journal that was critical of lithium orotate, mostly because there is a lack of testing data, and there is the potential for toxicity: https://www.aacp.com/pdf%2F0213%2F0213ACP_Letters...
Here's an article discussing the use of lithium aspartate and lithium orotate as supplements: http://www.livestrong.com/article/316987-lithium-...
Sounds like something that needs to be used with care. (Note return to usual cautious self, from unfettered enthusiasm of yesterday.)
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when my doc recommended the lithium I questioned her about the bipolar angle. She assured me that that is at much higher dosage levels. Unfortunately I can't find my notes.
. Research and ask your docs what's right for you. There is so much conflicting info out there - like C0Q10 - I take it but I've read good and bad. Sure wish it were easier to figure it all out!0 -
Klanders, I am still curious what her reasoning was for the lithium. In other words, what is it supposed to do?
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I just had my iodine levels checked through my GP - a simple blood test. I wanted to see if I needed an iodine supplement - it was normal.
My vitamin D was 30 and now 58 - I'm taking 6,000 IU per day.
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Hi everyone, I'm new here, just diagnosed with a local recurrence after 4 years. After my lumpectomy I declined rad, chemo and tamoxifen to go the alternative route but the truth is I got pretty lazy over the years and really didn't follow the protocol I set out for myself. I still believe very much in alternative treatment for HR+, and I take accountabily for letting societal pressures and 40 years of bad habits cause me to lose focus. Pretty harsh way to learn the lesson but that's life.
I'm wondering how you all stay on track? I want to stick with the alternative program this time too, but I'm worried I'll fall off the wagon again in a year or two again.
Thanks,
Julie.
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Please don't blame yourself. Even WonderWoman would have slipped off the chariot.
It takes a few years for a tumor to grow enough cells to be found, and thank goodness, this little bugger has been found, and that it's (thank goodess again) a local recurrence. Your onc can give you an idea how long it's been there.
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hey ladies was just wondering your opinions on taking probiotics durig chemo, to help your natural flora during the chemo
i want to take some natural products to help with this, so any input would be great . Also what about B17, heard it was also good for you
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Gone in 40, I took probiotics all through chemo with my onc's blessing. It helped greatly with the SEs. Since then there has also been research that suggests that the probiotics may even help the chemo work better. So definitely go for it.
B17 is not a real thing. It is a made up designation for amygdalin and it can be toxic:
"Since the early 1950s, both amygdalin and a modified form named laetrile or Vitamin B17 have been promoted as cancer cures. However, neither of these compounds nor any other derivatives are vitamins in any sense,[3] and studies have found them to be clinically ineffective in the treatment of cancer, as well as dangerously toxic." Wiki
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So glad I found this forum. I have been looking for alternatives to arimidex I also have a question I'm having a difficult time getting answered. In the middle of January I had my estrogen levels checked and they came back 289, I have no ovaries and are having terrible hot flashes and night sweats. Ive been on arimidex about a month now. Also my thyroid was 18.6 and I'm on meds to control it since 2006. My onc accused me of putting my HRT patches back on. Which isn't true. What can be causing the high levels of estrogen and would DIM be a good option for me. Ive already made the decision to quit arimidex because my quality of life sucks. Now I just need to find a good alternative. Ive even considered going back on HRT. Please help
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assetbc, I'm curious as to what program you slipped off of and what things you let slip. That could be helpful to the rest of us.
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someone here a while back said that b17 shrunk her tumor
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Kathy - excuse me sounding rude but are you carrying a lot of fat? you might be if thyroid is out of whack.....you could try Indole 3 Carbinol and another AI - like aromasin as that seems to be easier with side effects........but there is a lot you can do naturally, however your oestrogen levels are high and this is likely to be linked to your thyroid function but you need to investigate more first, its too easy to make reflex decisions........
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Lilly55 thanks for the response, no need to apologize I'm open for all Reponses I have gained 30 lbs since August. I will investigate your idea and others I've read about on here. I really feel like I have other options since reading some of the responses on here. Today is the first day in a long time I feel hopeful that I can perhaps have a normal life. There are other options out there. Myself and my Mother are gonna start taking yoga in the next couple weeks and I'm already an organic farmer that grow our own vegetables, raises our own beef and hogs and deer hunt so we only eat meat we raise or kill. I'm getting hopeful that my energy level will return and my (sorry) sex life can go back to normal 😄
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Thanks Pipers dream, my plan was to eat 80% raw and always organic, veggie juice daily, eliminate sugar and alcohol and grains, supplement with I3C, D3, and get 25 g of flax seeds. All this was to be done in conjunction with regular hormone testing and adjustments as required.
But I started having the odd glass of wine, reasoning it away as stress relief, and the odd dessert and it carried on from there. I got 'too busy' to juice in the morning and put off making appointments for tests. I ran out of I3C and put off making a naturopath appointment to get a new script for it, I was clearly in denial.
From reading everyone's excellent posts here it is clear that I need to put together a strong team and make regular appointments to keep on track. I already have an excellent and supportive GP but the last oncologist didn't want anything to do with me after I declined chemo and tamoxifen and it never occurred to me to search for one who was supportive of alternative choices. I'm also going to keep trying to find a good naturopath who is interested in supporting me with nutritional advice instead of just selling me supplements which has been my experience to date. Any other suggestions gratefully received!
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RE: B-17...... I have gotten raw bitter apricot kernels. They are kind of like almonds, but bitter. I eat 5 or 10 a couple of days a week. At this level, I don't see any toxicity, and my research has lead me to believe that it can help as a preventative.
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Flavia, I do not know how much is too much, but there is no question that amygdalin, regardless of the source, is potentially toxic, because the body converts the amygdalin to cyanide. Since the poster was asking about stuff to take along with chemo, which is already toxic, I doubt it is wise to load the body with further toxins at that time. But a doctor should be able to answer what safe levels are and whether it is ok to ingest amygdalin during chemo.
This explains how the potential for toxicity works:
"The metabolism of amygdalin produces hydrogen cyanide, a free radical -CN. Beta-glucosidase, one of the enzymes that catalyzes the release of cyanide from amygdalin, is present in the human small intestine and in a variety of common foods. This leads to an unpredictable and potentially lethal toxicity when amygdalin or laetrile is taken orally in large quantities.[3][19][20] Ingestion of large quantities of purified amygdalin or apricot kernels can cause severe toxicity and death due to cyanide poisoning.[15]Several case reports in medical literature describe serious cyanide poisoning in patients who ingested laetrile as a cancer treatment.[9][21] Blood cyanide concentrations may be measured as a means of confirming the diagnosis in hospitalized patients or to assist in the forensic investigation of a fatal overdose.[22]
Some laetrile promoters have claimed that the cyanide generated by laetrile is immediately harmlessly detoxified by the mitochondrial enzyme rhodanese into thiocyanate. However, these claims are false. First, because thiocyanate is also toxic, although to a lesser degree. Second, the body only can use the small amount of rhodanese that is present in the blood, regardless of the stores present in kidneys and liver. Third, the limited factor in this conversion are the stores of cystine, cysteine, and other sulfur compounds, which are rapidly depleted in laetrile poisoning. Fourth, blood analysis shows undetoxified cyanide in persons poisoned with laetrile or with apricot kernels.[9]" Wiki
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Hello Momine,
Thank you for the information. I'll tell you my source - the book "Outsmart your Cancer: Alternative non-toxic treatments that work." In it it says: "The connection between vitamin B-17 deficiency and cancer was first discovered by Dr. Ernst T. Krebs, Sr., a prominent physician and medical researcher. Dr. Krebs took an early interest in cancer. Soon his son, Dr. Ernst T. Krebs, Jr., who has specialized as a biochemist, joined his father in this research. By 1952, the father son team had discovered a definite connection between vitamin B-17 and cancer, and had developed the theory that cancer was, at least in part, a result of nutritional deficiency. This unusual vitamin activity works like a tiny "smart bomb." On a molecular level, B17 is composed of four units: two units of glucose, one unit of benzaldehyde, and one unit of cyanide. The cyanide unite is tightly locked together with the other three units to that its toxic characteristics are completely inert under most circumstances. What the two doctors discovered is that there is only one situation in the human body that can cause the cyanide in vitamin B-17 to be unlocked and released as a toxic substance. That situation occurs when the b17 molecule comes in contact with an enzyme called "beta-glucosidase." If this happens, then the unit of cyanide is released and is toxic, and the unit of banzaldehyde in B17 is also released and is toxic. Moreover, these 2 substances working together are about a hundred times more toxic than either one is by itself.
Amazingly, it just so happens that they cyanide-unlocking enzyme, beta-glucosidase, only occurs to any significant degree in just one place in the body. It is only significantly present in cancer cells. Thus the toxic cyanide and benzaldehyde are released from the B17 in the body only when the vitamin comes in contact with cancer cells. Apparently nature has provided us with an ingenious defense against cancer - and it is a common dietary nutrient!
But that is not all. Nature even provided normal cells with a back-up protecting enzyme called "rhodanese." Rhodanese has the ability to neutralize cyanide on contact. In fact, rhodanese actually converts cyandie into other components that are beneficial to the body. By now, it should be not surprise to learn that the enzyme rhodanese is prevalent in greater quantities throughout the body except where there is cancer. Thus, if any amount of cyanide from B17 does get unlocked near normal cells, the enzyme rhodanese will immediately detoxify the cyanide and convert it into non-toxic components.
Vitamin B17 is an all-natural smart chemical bomb that fights cancer. And it is found in so many food sources that all we have to do is eat a varied healthy diet consisting primarily of fruits, vegetables, grains, nuts, and seeds to get plenty of it. G. Edward Griffin wrote "World without Cancer," the most comprehensive book about B17 and Laetrile. In it he points out that the groups of people around the world who regularly ingest hight amounts of B17 from their diets are the same groups that show extremely low incidences of cancer."
The author goes on to talk about the Hunzakut people - who commonly eat 30-50 apricot kernels daily. "It has been estimated that, largely because of their apricot seed ingestion,k the traditional Hunza diet may have had at least 200 times the amount of B17 as the average American diet. Thus it is no wonder that they never experienced cancer.
B17 is found in lima beans, bean sprouts, most berries, yams, many seeds, cashews, macadamia nuts, millet, buckwheat.... "almost all wild fruits and most seeds have some form of nitriloside in them."
"Researchers over the years have shown similar correlations between diets high in B17 and a low incidence of cancer among the native populations of the world as well."
the author goes on to talk about the history of the use of B17 against cancer, and the researchers who have used it. Also the campaign to discredit it.
"The disinformation put out about laetrile was focused around two general issues: 1. that Laetrile is too toxic for people to use because it contains cyanide; and 2. that it is simply not effective in treating cancer. The "toxic" argument is laughable. How can something be called toxic when it is ingested whenever a person eats lima beans, bean sprouts, almost any seed or nut, berries, millet, and other foods; when animal thrive on natural foods high in it; and the healthiest people on earth eat diets extremely rich in it? Also, if it is so toxic, then why is vitamin B12 allowed to be sold as a health supplement? Most people don't know that vitamin B12 also contains the same type of cyanide molecule that is in Vitamin B17."
At any rate, the way I look at it is that something like apricot kernels or apple seeds are a food, growing on the planet, eaten by animals. Sure, in high doses, there might be problems. But I think of our ancestors - when they picked and ate an apple, they probably ate the seeds, just like the deer in my yard do.....
Again, thanks for your information, I'll be careful :-)
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Flavia, since this is the alternative forum, I will leave it at that. Be well!
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