Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally

chisandy · August 2016

Momine, I actually enjoyed menopause. I had an early menarche, and frequent copious painful periods all my life except when pregnant or on the Pill. Nonetheless, I had trouble conceiving, and was able to carry only one pregnancy to term (though my son’s twin was a blighted ovum I miscarried at 9 weeks). My last period was at age 54, and it lasted six weeks until my gyne took pity on me and gave me Depo-Provera. As far as I was concerned, menopause could not come too soon. I had no hot flashes--I only sweated a bit more. No weight gain, no irritability. My skin & hair were fine (still are). I felt free. I think Mother Nature knows exactly what she’s doing by gradually fading out our reproductive careers.

melissadallas · August 2016

Me too ChiSandy. No more PMS migraines. Also,I was prone to periods of depression since I was fifteen and haven't had one since menopause, so no hormonal swings equaled stable moods.

Mini1 · August 2016

I took DIM for awhile instead of Tamoxifen, but it wrecked havoc on my liver enzyme levels. I could not take any AI's, but Tamox has been better. I do zero soy, eat hormone-free dairy and meat, and practice yoga. The yoga is amazing for my joint pain and sore back. It took me a little while to get the hang of it, but I've gotten better. Between yoga ad practicing mindfulness/meditation, I've received some welcome relief. I never in a million years thought I would do meditation, but here I am.

dtad · August 2016

Mini1...Just curious how you knew it was the DIM that was causing your liver enzymes to be elevated?

Mini1 · August 2016

Process of elimination. It took about a year to get my levels within 5 points of normal (they were more than double what they should have been). They've been that way for nearly a year. The only thing not reintroduced back into my regimen is DIM. My doc said that he felt it was the DIM, as well. I do have pancreatic and liver issues, so maybe my system was more sensitive. I don't know.

pipers_dream · August 2016

Mini, I never thought I'd meditate either, but here I am. I think the BC was the Spirit's way of gaining my attention. Well they got it!

mapat · October 2016

"a melatonin concentration of 20 nM and resveratrol concentration of 20 μM have an aromatase inhibitory effect as potent as 20 nM letrozole, which is a clinically used anti-aromatase drug in breast cancer treatment. The SEEM mechanism of action of especially melatonin clearly offers potential advantages for breast cancer treatment." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24929094

http://suppversity.blogspot.com/2014/06/melatonin-...

I have other links regarding melatonin and breast cancer if anyone would like more. I took letrozole for about 4 months after a really bad winter of stage IV pain. Stopped taking it because of bone/pain problems and went back to all natural treatments. Feeling much better now.

Also:

"Honey is highly cytotoxic against tumor or cancer cells while it is non-cytotoxic to normal cells. The data indicate that honey can inhibit carcinogenesis by modulating the molecular processes of initiation, promotion, and progression stages.

the study found that the anti-cancer effect of tualang honey on breast cancer cells was similar to that of tamoxifen [37]. Cytotoxic effects on breast cancer cells (MCF-7) have also been reported for Indian honey [38]. These studies reveal that honey is able to exert cytotoxicity in both MCF-7 and MDA-MB-231 which are ER-positive and ER-negative breast cancer cells, respectively.

Other findings include less prominent vasculature around the tumor nodules and significantly reduced weights and volumes of the tumor masses (which were smaller, softer and paler with spots of necrosis) in honey-treated rats"

http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/19/2/2497/htm

Also: those with liver problems may want to check into milk thistle:

"Laboratory studies demonstrate that silymarin stabilizes cellular membranes, stimulates detoxification pathways, stimulates regeneration of liver tissue, inhibits the growth of certain cancer cell lines, exerts direct cytotoxic activity toward certain cancer cell lines, and possibly increases the efficacy of certain chemotherapy agents."

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/cam/...

"we suggest that silibinin prevents the EGFR signaling pathway and may be used as an effective drug for the inhibition of metastasis of human breast cancer." http://ar.iiarjournals.org/content/31/11/3767.long

mapat · October 2016

The Link Between Dietary Fat and Estrogen Levels

http://plantfueledlife.com/fat-estrogen/

http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/91/6/529.fu...

mapat · October 2016

Another small U.S. study reported in 2014 on 40 women with early-stage breast cancer indicated limonene reduced the circulation of adrenal steroid hormones. Because estrogen is a steroid hormone and thought to have a proliferative effect on breast cancer tumors, limonene may be able to play a role in reducing estrogen levels.

In 2015, a joint Vietnamese and Estonian research study found that pine essential oil (Pinus sylvestris) effectively suppressed several human cancer cell lines. They found that pine oil was effective against breast cancer cell lines, specifically metastatic estrogen receptor positive (ER+), estrogen receptor negative (ER-), and even triple negative breast cancer (TNBC).

https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/phytochemicals-tre...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17474862

Fallleaves · October 2016

Lot's of good articles and studies, Mapat, thank you!

I will pass the milk thistle info along to my brother-in-law, who has damaged his liver with alcohol addiction. Also interesting that honey has cytotoxic effects. I know it has anti-microbial qualities that have medicinal use, too, and if sealed, basically never spoils (honey found in Egyptian pots thousands of years old was still edible!)

I definitely buy into the benefits of pine terpenes. I read about the NK cell boost effects of forest walking a couple of years ago and now I consider a trail run in the woods almost everyday a kind of medicine, both for the exercise, and to breath in the wonderful pine-scented air! (I also take a pine bark supplement because it inhibits some of the inflammatory pathways involved in breast cancer.)

mapat · October 2016

Found some more:

"We conclude that melatonin inhibits aromatase activity and expression in HUVECs by regulating gene expression of specific aromatase promoter regions, thereby reducing the local production of estrogens." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23450505

"These results convincingly prove the negative effect of EMF on the antiestrogenic effect of melatonin in breast cancer cells."https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19882681

"melatonin inhibits the growth of breast cancer by interacting with estrogen-signaling pathways through three different mechanisms" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19075592

Some other studies on melatonin:

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/greenmed/topic/37477/f...

Owens69 · October 2016

After a month of Zoladex and two weeks on Femara (taken off early due to SE's), I have decided not to go the medication route. So, I will be following this thread very closely.

Just in the short time I have been on these meds, I have excruciating pain in my hips, back, and shoulder at night. I am unable to sleep because of it. Can someone please suggest how to relieve some of this pain until meds are out of my system? I have taken Alieve and Ibuprofen, but nothing helps. Just want to sleep (and be able to get up in the morning for work)!!!!

abigail48 · October 2016

cannabis, orally

labelle · October 2016

Claritin helps with my Tamoxifen induced aches and pains. I've read it can help with AI pains too and it's pretty benign and legal where I live-whereas cannabis is (unfortunately) not.

Samanthavt7091 · October 2016

Or Hemp oil.

abigail48 · October 2016

yes hemp seed oil sent fromC

anada? legal here too

yoga_girl · October 2016

Owens69

You might want to try Ambien, 10mg. Due to the new laws that now govern controlled substance issuance, they may start you out on 5mg and if that doesn't help, allow you to increase to the 10mg. It has been my experience that onc docs (in my onc treatment/care/survivorship center) will not write or manage this drug as of 2014, you may have to go to a sleep specialist doc who will manage and write the scripts for this. They are one of the few specialists that understand the multiple challenges cancer patients have with insomnia and the causes that continue to contribute to it. They will work with a team of specialists that may involve an ENT-who will look at air/throat passages that may contribute to breathing issues brought on by SEs from cancer treatments/drugs. Not something we always think about with BC and most PCPs may not be trained in the specialty.

I have had great success with the drug so far.

Currently in sleep study and selecting my ENT to partner w/ my sleep doc.

Have already tried over the counter and melatonin.

Hope this helps.

mapat · October 2016

My (additional) pain from being on letrozole for 4 months took about 3-4 weeks to really stop. While on letrozole I was also on hydrocodone(helped somewhat with pain) and muscle relaxants ( which just knocked me out so I could sleep), so I had some of those as needed till I felt better. Hope you recover sooner.

In spite of my healthy, plant-based diet, I occasionally find it hard to refrain from chocolate. Had some chocolate last night--I know better by now (I have a spot or two that gets tender, inflamed maybe,so I try to stay away from it, but figured it was just the milk products/sugar/high fat, but seems that chocolate can also raise estrogen levels. I quit drinking pepsi over six years ago, but had usually drank (way too much) regular black tea instead. Instinctively I think, I felt that this was 'not good', and have since cut way down (mostly because of the sugar) to one or two cups/day. Seems that caffeine may also raise estrogen levels. Haven't found the actual studies yet, but some interesting article.

http://clearwoman.com/female-estrogen-dominant-dis...

Other info/suggestions to reduce estrogen levels:

http://www.breasthealthproject.com/nutrition.html

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Do_You_Suffer_F...

mapat · October 2016

"standardized extract of Ginkgo biloba (EGb761) induces anti-carcinogenic effects like the aromatase inhibitors...H295R cells exposed to EGb761 (10 and 100 μg/mL) showed a significant decrease in 17β-estradiol and testosterone, but no change in aldosterone or cortisol. Genes (CYP19 and 17β-HSD1) related to the estrogen steroidogenesis were significantly decreased by EGb761. EGb761 treatment of H295R cells resulted in a significant decrease of aromatase activity as measured by the direct and indirect assays.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27188280

The Western dietary pattern is associated with increased serum concentrations of free estradiol in postmenopausal women: implications for breast cancer prevention.

"A multiple linear regression model showed that for each unit increase in the Western dietary pattern index, there was a 16.2% increase in the serum concentrations of free estradiol (β=0.15; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.01-0.29); for each additional serving per week of chicken eggs, the increase was 31.0% (β=0.27; 95% CI, 0.106-0.441); for each additional serving per week of red meat, the increase was 64.9% (β=0.50; 95% CI, 0.01-1.01)...The present findings suggest that intake of a Western diet, particularly of chicken eggs and meat, increases serum concentrations of free estradiol."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27440539

mapat · October 2016

Some interesting, (very short) videos:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/breast-cancer-prev...

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/breast-cancer-vs-m...

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/which-seaweed-is-m...

http://nutritionfacts.org/2016/09/13/estrogen-anim...

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/the-role-of-bovine...

carolyn62 · November 2016

Hello everyone. I started Arimidex last January and had horrible side effects. I decided to discontinue and consulted with a naturopath to find ways to treat myself naturally. He recommended quercetin, grape seed extract, turkey tail, melatonin and a high quality cod liver oil for supplementation. I recently started Juice Plus as well. I'm trying to have as clean a diet as possible, I meditate and have a strong spiritual support network. Still,I find myself doubting my decision when I read articles about AIs preventing recurrences. I guess I need some encouragement and support from you all right now. Tha ks

dsgirl · November 2016

Hi Carolyn62.

I just had a lumpectomy and radiation and never took any of the ALs, this was back in 2009 so 7 years ago. I see the oncologist once a year, have a 3d mammogram, breast exam and some bloodwork. So far NED. My first oncologist insisted I needed an AL, so I just found another one that would give me checkups yearly, and not insist on the AL.

Wishing you the best

dsgirl

hopedieslast · November 2016

Here's some of the advice I got when I emailed http://www.disease-death-dying.org/

"You need to follow a systematic approach. Find all the cellular processes and biomarkers – there are dozens – that play a role in cancer progression, and then find alternative/complementary treatments that will block or normalize each one. A good treatment will often inhibit cancer progression in multiple ways. For example:

Increase Estradiol Conversion

Estrogen promotes the growth of estrogen-dependent breast cancer, but estrogen comes in various forms. The estrogen "estradiol" is a strong promoter of growth; the estrogen "estriol" is a much weaker promoter of growth. So look for treatments that will convert estradiol to estriol. For example, indole-3-carbinol (I3C) increases the conversion of estradiol to estriol by about 50%. According to the research, you'd need to take 6-7 mg per kg of body weight each day.

See "Altered estrogen metabolism and excretion in humans following consumption of indole-3-carbinol" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1656396

Decrease 16-OHE to 2-OHE ratio

The normal processing of estrogens produces various metabolites, such as 16-a-Hydroxyestrone (16-OHE) and 2-hydroxyestrone (2-OHE). 16-OHE promotes cancer growth, whereas 2-OHE does not. In breast cancer, levels of 16-OHE are often elevated, so a treatment needs to lower the 16-OHE to 2-OHE ratio. Indole-3-carbinol has been shown in culture to change the ratio by a factor of about four and to inhibit breast cancer cell growth by about 50-60%.

See "Inhibition of Proliferation and Modulation of Estradiol Metabolism: Novel Mechanisms for Breast Cancer Prevention by the Phytochemical Indole-3-Carbinol" http://ebm.sagepub.com/content/216/2/246.short

Force Cell Cycle Arrest

Normal cells go through a process of cell cycle arrest so that they can check themselves for the presence of damage before dividing. Cancer cells bypass this important step. Indole-3-carbinol will induce G1 cell cycle arrest – it reduces breast cancer cell growth in culture by about 90%.

See "Cyclin-dependent Kinase-6 and Induces a G1 Cell Cycle Arrest of Human Breast Cancer Cells Independent of Estrogen Receptor Signaling" http://www.jbc.org/content/273/7/3838.short

Increase Apoptosis

Damaged cells normally self-destruct through a process called apoptosis. Cancer cells have learned to bypass this step. Indole-3-carbinol can increase apoptosis in breast cancer cells in culture by about a factor of two.

See "Cyclin-dependent Kinase-6 and Induces a G1 Cell Cycle Arrest of Human Breast Cancer Cells Independent of Estrogen Receptor Signaling" http://www.jbc.org/content/273/7/3838.short

What You Need To Do

This is only a small sample. There are dozens of cellular processes and biomarkers that need to be altered to effectively fight cancer. And for each process or biomarker you need to identify multiple treatments, as what works for one person will not necessarily work for another – every tumour is different.

While cancer patients are often discouraged from taking herbal treatments, these treatments can sometimes be far more effective than conventional ones: for example, in the present case, indole-3-carbinol inhibits the growth of estrogen-receptor-positive breast cancer cells by 90% compared to only 60% for the big-pharma drug tamoxifen. Of course, there is often a synergy between big-pharma and alternate medicine treatments, and so using alternate treatments as complementary medicine is usually the best course of action.

You need to find a CAM therapist who is thoroughly familiar with all the cellular processes and biomarkers that get disrupted when cancer develops, and who can identify a range of treatments to tackle each one (you'll also need to check with your oncologist to ensure there are no unfavourable interactions with concurrent big-pharma treatments). Note that indole-3-carbinol was just used as an example above, and is just one of many different treatments. There are about 25 alternative medicine treatments that can be worth taking in the case of breast cancer, and which have solid research evidence to demonstrate their effectiveness, sometimes in vitro and sometimes in vivo."

mapat · November 2016

Book recommendation:

The Complete Natural Medicine Guide to Breast Cancer--

A Practical Manual for Understanding, prevention and Care

by Sat Dharam Kaur (Naturopathic Doctor)

This book covers an enormous amount of information, from understanding breast cancer to the many topics we have covered here, and much much more. Whether you have chosen strictly alternative treatment, or as complementary to standard treatments, this covers, in-depth, many, many options.

I originally got it from library, but bought my own copy from thriftbooks.com for just a few dollars. Really helps increase understanding of just what we are fighting and our options, especially natural ones, for doing so.

mapat · November 2016

Aspirin has been reported to inhibit aromatase activity (in which androgens are converted to estrogens in the body). One study of 740 postmenopausal women in the Nurses' Health Study reported that women who used NSAIDs at least 15 days per month had significantly lower levels of estradiol compared with women with no NSAID use.

Most studies have reported that acetaminophen (Tylenol), which is not an NSAID, is not associated with risk of breast cancer or its recurrence. Use of ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin) has been found to be associated with increased risk of breast cancer. Naproxen (Aleve) appears to have either a small or no effect in preventing breast cancer. {I found that news disturbing as my drs/oncologist prescribed ibuprofen}

https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/121/topic...

NSAIDs, including aspirin, may lower serum estradiol.

http://ascopubs.org/doi/full/10.1200/jco.2009.22.7...

breast cancer survivors who were regular aspirin users had a 50 percent lower risk of breast cancer recurrence and death compared to those who did not use aspirin.

http://www.dana-farber.org/Newsroom/News-Releases/...

Momine · November 2016

Mapat, that is confusing. Ibuprofen is an NSAID. If NSAIDs are helpful, then why would Ibuprofen increase the risk of BC?

mapat · November 2016

It is confusing! Some studies say one thing, another the opposite, some just lump all NSAID's together...and sometimes the opposite in the same study!!:

"Long-term daily use of NSAIDs was not associated with breast cancer risk overall. Ibuprofen use was associated with an increased risk of breast cancer, and long-term daily aspirin use was associated with an increased risk of ER/PR-negative breast cancer." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15928301

This is why we should never rely on just one or two studies!! And also pay attention to how those studies are actually done. And try to go to the actual study, not just some reporters interpretation of that study.

After reading lots more studies, overall, it seems to be aspirin's effect of reducing inflammation. As well as that one reference that it may have an increased risk for those with ER/PR negative BC (but good for those with positive). As for ibuprofen, the only real 'negative' I found was related to ibuprofen's damaging effects on the liver, that

ibuprofen "also inhibit the CP450 enzyme system. This system ensures that toxins that contribute to increased breast cancer are detoxified and when it is disrupted our risk of breast cancer increases." http://www.anaturalcure.com/ibuprofen-linked-to-br... ,

but even there, only in a very few women, and it was just a post about a study, not the study itself. Also in several studies, that ibuprofen works more 'selectively', so much harder to have consistent results. Also that NSAID's was more in the way of reducing inflammation as a 'prevention', rather than treatment, but either way, I'd think that reducing inflammation would be a good thing. And several studies about aspirin "may lower serum estradiol". (And that is what this thread is about)

Overall, what I found was that aspirin may be helpful; ibuprofen--you'd have to decide for yourself. One thing I did find, relevant for me as my BC has moved to my bones:

reported an accentuated bone loss ...these studies demonstrate that chronic treatment with ibuprofen results in osteopenia in growing rats at concentrations of the drug that are relevant to humans

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1359/jbmr.19...

I'll have to do more research on that, even though personally, I would rather use aspirin anyway.

Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally

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