STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
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Cpeachymom - good for you! I rarely talk to mine because he was out of the picture for a while and then I moved far away and lived with my mom & stepdad. He wanted to build some kind of father-daughter relationship with me when I was older, but I wouldn't have any of it since he wanted some kind of halfway relationship so he could keep deceiving his family. I am ok with having polite and infrequent conversations with him but he doesn't like that I don't treat him like he's my dad. Well duh!
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Kber - oh, don't you love that? Who knew that your friend was a medical expert and psychic master concerning your life and needs and decision making?
When I told my mom I had cancer she said if I'd have more regular mammograms I wouldn't be in this mess. Really? How is that? Is that because we know that having a mammogram is the same as an inoculation against breast cancer? Do all the women who have regular mammograms NEVER GET BREAST CANCER??? I did shout at my mom. I feel bad. I think she was having her own problems hearing her kid has cancer. This is not what any mother wants to hear. I am am mother. I never want to hear those words come out of my own kid's mouth. But still ..... people need to fill those horrible silences where pain might sneak in with random talking. It's a way to avoid saying, "Holy shit, this sucks so bad, I am so sorry that I don't know what to do or say to help you so instead I will talk like I know what I'm talking about and it will fill this space of awkward misery that we might have to experience. "
WHen I was young and could not imagine that I would ever have cancer (it's always the other guy) I remember saying I would refuse chemo. Nope, wouldn't do it. Not having it. I would bravely face death instead but I would never submit to chemo cause I just don't believe in it.
What a load of horse shit.
When I was diagnosed and real death by cancer stared me in the face I would have taken chemo. In fact I went to my hairdresser and told him to shave my head. I didn't want to do chemo but I didn't want to die either. Pick your poison - literally!! He said he would shave my head when my hair started falling out and my Oncoscore said chemo wouldn't do me one lick of good so I didn't do it. But I would have. Because in that desperate hour, from the inside looking out, it's a whole other ballgame. Your friend is still on the outside and she cannot possibly know what it's like to be in your shoes. She just can't. She talks to fill that void where you want to help someone and know there isn't a damn thing you can do. We are very bad at sitting with discomfort and emotional distress. She can't fix this. She doesn't know what to do with that. If she has other good qualities, you might have to keep cutting her slack as you say. But it's hard. We all know. It's very hard and very exhausting.
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doodle, once the trust is gone it's gone. How do you know he called her? Was it on speakerphone? Guys are sneaky. He needed time and now he calls. I say give him more time in the sense that I wouldn't ask anything of him. See if he stays by your side, if he shows up. You are at the start and have enough to deal with. See how tuned in he is to you without asking him. Your answer will be given there..
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kber - Your friend sounds like she suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect.
I have a friend who is low key panicking about me getting neoadjuvant chemo because she is convinced it will help the cancer spread and trying to hint I should find another doctor. She sent me one of those top doctor lists and I was like, yes my oncologist is on there. She previously had a different cancer with no chemo, and seems to think our situation is similar enough that mine should be treated the same way hers was (only surgery)...I'm sympathetic cause I'm wondering if she's psychologically reliving her own cancer nightmare. But on the other hand I don't want to be talked to like I don't know how to read or make a good decision based on available info & professional medical advice.
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So, I just saw a story on the national news that diet is a factor in having breast cancer. Uh huh. Have we ever seen studies covered on the news that basically blames men for their own prostate or other cancers? Or are women just easier targets?
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You should be able to make your own decisions. NO ONE has the exact same health issues going on or support systems. If your friend has gone through cancer already she should understand that. She has to be reliving it all since you have this going on now as well.
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AliceBastable, what frustrates me is that we know that weight control and diet are factors in many diseases, including various types of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. and in fact the influence of diet on breast cancer rates is not nearly as significant as it is for many other diseases. Yet we continually read about breast cancer and diet. Or breast cancer and alcohol. Or breast cancer and exercise. Or breast cancer and....
I think the issue is that breast cancer is one of the most prevalent cancers, and the simple truth is that for the vast majority of us, the medical and scientific communities have no idea why we develop breast cancer. So they look for excuses, easy answers to make up for the fact that they really are clueless. Ah, it's your diet! No, actually, for almost all of us, that's not what caused our breast cancer.
We all know that it's better for our health and longevity if we maintain a healthy diet, exercise regularly and maintain a healthy weight. That's a no brainer. I wish that instead of spending so much time and money on research to validate these intuitively obvious things, more time and money would be spent instead on finding out, at the cellular level, how breast cancer develops, so that drugs or vaccines can be created to stop these cell mutations from happening. And until then, how about putting more time and money towards the development of breast cancer treatments that are more effective than the ones we have today? Yes, it's great that endocrine therapy can reduce the risk of mets by ~35%, but who thinks that's enough? Or maybe into treatments that are less toxic, so that we don't have to expose ourselves to completely new health risks - heart disease, DVT/PE, endometrial cancer, osteoporosis, etc. - when we are treating and trying to reduce our risk from our breast cancer diagnoses?
But I guess it's just easier to get women to blame themselves for their breast cancer, so that they are more willing to accept that they have to go through these crappy treatments.
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Studies have become worthless, rarely do I even consider reading them. I agree with you Beesie spend the money and time on better treatments and targeted therapies. I know that nothing I did caused my breast cancer, so I ignore anything telling me otherwise.
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As much as I usually like Lester Holt (he kinda looks like my Dad did), I could have punched him after he read that study story, then smiled and said something like "Now you know what to do." Yeah, passing up that Snickers bar means no one will ever get breast cancer. Puh-leeeze.
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It seems like it continues despite our responses that you can't protect yourself from breast cancer. I never thought I would get cancer, no family history really excellent health. I eat right, exercise, do all the recommended screening. The reality is 1 in 8 get this no matter what you do.
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Mainstream media doesn't seem to have any interest in actually educating people about bc..If they did people would know more about what symptoms to look out for and how much we don't know as far as what causes it. Like with typical mainstream health headlines it just become some dumbed down fear-mongering tag line for ratings like "Studies show eating ____ causes breast cancer" which is often misleading and a misinterpretation of the actual studies.
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Just read a report on the "diet study". While it was originally intended to investigate if a low fat diet would prevent the development of breast cancer (shown to not be the case in another study) the report actually related to low fat diet and mortality from breast cancer! Criticisms are already being published. Just another example of don't believe the very abbreviated report of research we hear on the nightly news!
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I've always thought it was the toxins in our food and environment....but look at all these LITTLE kids who get various cancers.
They haven't LIVED ON THE PLANET long enuf to be exposed to the plethora of chemicals we've been exposed to.
L
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It's a weird human foible that we can't seem to handle unanswered "why" questions. But the half-assed answers seem to do more harm than good. I've had three kinds of cancer, plus basal cell skin. If I decided to dig around on Google, I'm sure I'd find totally contradictory reasons why I had each of them. I'm much more concerned with "where do I go from here" than "how did I get here?"
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Well Ladies. I HATE THIS STUPID HATEFUL AWFUL DISEASE!!!!!!!!! Oncotype score 3! Yes 3!!!! And I not only have recurrence, it might be mets, although many more tests to do (PET scan not good). And HOW DARE THEY talk about diet when they have willfully let chemical and food companies poison our food. ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I hope it is not a metastasis, we need a cure. My oncodx was 34, because I refused chemo my mo was expecting mine to recur had a few scares but thankfully still good on year 8. I can't stand the media image of such advanced medicine breast cancer is under control, it is NOT. Better safer and more effective medicines NOW.
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Okay, ladies….need the wisdom of wiser, more experienced people.
This has NEVER happened to me with a so-called "friend" before.
Every time I'm on the phone with this particular friend, the conversation reverts back to her asking me why my adult daughter, 25 ½ who lives with us, is NOT paying us rent.
I give out the usual explanation: She only works part-time for an art collective and uses that money to pay off her student loans, pays for her other personal expenses (which we don't subsidize), and pays for purchases on the credit card she shares with my DH.
Rents are astronomically high out here. A simple studio apt in a halfway decent neighborhood goes for more than $3,500. Incidentally, before I became ill, I was barely taking home that much – I would have had to get roommates too!
DD is also the backup "invalid caregiver" for me when DH is out of town. We should be paying HER!
"Why doesn't XXXX get a better paying job?" friend asks.
No one will look at your resume if you don't have at least 2 yrs at your current job. They don't want "flakey" employees even in the art world. DD has another year to go before she can start looking elsewhere (she's already putting feelers out).
Well, the phone calls always end up reverting to a shouting match. I try not to say anything insulting or hurtful (turning the other cheek, if you will), but I've had to tell her to shut up, as in, "Will you PLEASE shut up so I can finish my thought…" It's very frustrating, and I'm always upset for hours after hanging up.
And besides, who the flick is SHE to tell us what to do with our adult child when she does NOT have any children herself? [I know that's not a tactful question, and I've never asked it.]
My husband says this has got to stop. I'm a Stage IV cancer patient. I don't need to be this frustrated. I need to be calm, not agitated, or distressed.
So, ladies, should I dump her (ghost her) or give her ONE MORE chance, with the rule being "My daughter, her job, and her living situation are totally off the table. You break that rule, the phone conversation ends, and you are no longer my friend."
Any help with this would be appreciated. I don't want to lose this friendship…she's a fun person, but she's VERY opinionated, and enough's enough.
L
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Lita, I think it is really rude of her to poke her nose in your business. You shouldn't have to explain anything. Many people have adult children living at home. My son just graduated from college. He lives at home 24 years old, I want him to get a job but he can stay as long as he likes with us. He doesn't need to pay outrageous rent it is a total waste of money. I wouldn't charge my son rent even after he gets a job. My older son left at 26 years old lived with us a year and saved all that money to get him started.
Now my oldest 26 years old is totally on his own and has zero debt. I will do everything I can for my youngest so he remains debt free.
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Lita_ You talk to your friend about your beautifull daughter, how wonderful is she, how happy are you that she lives with you, how blessed you feel because you have a daughter who cares about you, etc.etc. (it isn't a lying) Everytime your friend says something about your daughter you talk how wonderfull is she. Your friend will be so bored that she won't ask you about her anymore. Believe me, this method will make any discussion unneccesary. LOL
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Does your friend have children? Is she of a competitive nature? There's some reason she frowns upon your daughter living at home. If she can't be truthful with you on why that bothers her, then I would just leave it alone. If shouting continues, then I would say perhaps the relationship has become a little too toxic. You know her best.
I have a son who still lives at home. We don't charge him rent, but he does handle all of our cell phone bills, and he will basically help our with anything we ask. He is also 25, works 7 days a week, and last yr he grossed more than his Dad and me!
I'd also like to know why our cells go stupid and cause cancer. I am also of the belief that NO ONE did this to themselves, so I'm on the STFU train of diet, exercise, and alcohol consumption.
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Lita57:
My neighbor, who also has no children, offered her unsolicited sage opinion of how I should be raising my children on more than one occasion. Initially I was polite and turned the other cheek but then it got to be overbearing on her part. I finally had enough and told her that was setting boundaries for those conversations; I would not offer her advice about her life, if she would agree to do the same about my children's lives. When she would start again, I would terminate the conversation.
Both of my children lived home rent free but were responsible for their personal expenses while they were in school and on occasion while between jobs. Maybe they did not help out as much then but I can tell you they are now productive citizens with families (even if one is fur babies), and they are available to me as I need them. MY DD is the designated "critter sitter" when we are on vacation and okay the fringe benefit is she gets to live in my air conditioned abode while we are away. It is a great trade off since boarding fees alone would exceed the AC bill with our menagerie. My DS works nearby and has picked us up after invasive procedures where we needed a designated driver, etc. He has done numerous garden chores that I can no longer do because of LE and he is just a phone call away if we need him. I am proud of how they have evolved. Both have a large group of friends that they support and in turn support them as well.
So I support what you are doing for your DD which is giving her a chance to get on her feet. She will find her wings, leave the nest in all due time and then do you proud. If she is serving as your "caregiver" this is her "rent". I would very politely tell your "friend" what boundaries you would like honored about your DD's life and be explicit about what the consequences of her not honoring them are. If she is truly a friend, she will respect you and them. A friend should not be inflicting pain especially when you already have more than your share. Hugs.
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Lita, I think your second suggestion: "give her ONE MORE chance, with the rule being "My daughter, her job, and her living situation are totally off the table. You break that rule, the phone conversation ends, and you are no longer my friend."
Buy putting this out there, exactly as you stated, you are giving her a chance to change her abusive ways. However, I don't think she is capable of stopping this behavior, but, by putting it out there so clearly, it will help you let go and not have any regrets about axing her. She will have had a chance to change but didn't.
BTW, I dog sit for a friend who lives in Union City. I love the change from San Francisco, where I live.
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Lita, since you would like to keep the friendship, I'd suggest starting a little more gently, with a polite but firm approach. Next time your friend brings up the topic, maybe say something like: "You know, this topic seems to come up every time we speak. Here's the thing. DH and I have an arrangement with DD that we are very happy with and that works well for all of us. That's all that counts so let's not discuss this any more, okay?" And if she insists, follow with "I really don't want to talk about this any more with you. We are happy with our set-up, don't plan to change it, and aren't interested in anyone else's opinion or input." And then change the subject. From then on, any time she mentions it, remind her that "We're not talking about this, remember?"
I think that would be clear but also polite enough to keep the friendship. However if she continues to raise the topic and persists about it, then you move to the 'one last chance' discussion. I think that going to 'one last chance' right away, without giving her a clear warning first, might end the friendship right away.
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could you perhaps just say that it’s not her business? i don’t think it’s very nice of her to upset you like that
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Lita, My daughter also lives with us rent free. She has written her first novel, has submitted to several agents, and is working on the second. She watches our house and pets when we are traveling, helps with cleaning, cooking and grocery shopping. When people ask us about her, I point out that many of our greatest authors have died penniless, alone, and unappreciated--Thoreau, Melville, Poe, Wilde. And artists like Vermeer and Van Gogh. We have chosen to support her artistic efforts and choose for her to write from a safe place, where she is surrounded by love. If someone cannot understand that, they don't have much interest in the beauty that makes the world a better place. Nor does their opinion mount to a hill of beans. Bless you for supporting your artist daughter. I usually explain that in the end it is no ones business but ours, and non-supportive comments are not welcome. Best wishes.
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Thank you, ladies, for the great advice ;o).
I will put it to good use. I feel a little better about the situation today.
L
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Lita,
I concur. I have a dear friend whose adult son and daughter in law live with them to help pay off student loans. They had moved into her family home when her mother was alive to help care for her mother before she died. Multi-generational homes were the norm for many years and is still common in many cultures. Your friend show not judge and maybe she is really jealous you have a close relationship with your own child and she may not. If you value the friendship and do not want to confront her you can always change the subject too if you feel the conversation turning that way again.
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Lita, I agree with Cowgirl in that you answered your own question, you are perfectly free to tell this person that discussions about your daughter are off the table. If you try to do it nicely, bullies see this as an in to start grinding at you again, so I think explaining yourself is sometimes, depending on the situation, the wrong approach. You are not obligated to explain your reasons to anyone. Your reasons are your reasons, end of story.
It seems to me you and this person have been friends for a long time. You say you have yelled at her before over this. This means that when she 'attacks' you get defensive. WRONG APPROACH! Next time she asks why your daughter is living with you rent free, you could employ a little fictitious storytelling.
Friend: Jeez Lita, she's 25 bloody years old, don't you think it's time you weaned her already?
Lita: (in quiet, whispering tone) Well, between you and me, Hub and I are pretty sick of her. She wasn't a planned pregnancy and we made the best of it but here she is 25 years later, still a weight around our neck. Like, move on already. I have advanced cancer, like I want my last days to be surrounded by the people I love or something like that. Obviously she thinks we love her more than we actually do. Poor deluded thing. We have talked about, you know, hiring someone to help her have a little 'accident' if you know what I mean. A few weeks in the hospital in a body cast would be a nice break for us, that's for sure. But those accidents don't come cheap and with her living here, sucking up all our resources, we don't even have enough money to hire someone to push her into an empty pool. It's a real problem. Hey! Maybe you would like to loan me a few thousand so I can hire some thugs to rough her up and tell her to get the hell out of our house! THat might make you feel better since you seem to really resent her too. I think $6000 should cover it. I'll take that in hundred dollar bills. Bitch.
Sarcastic? Hell yeah? If she doesn't get the point after that she's brain damaged, unfriend her!
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I ended a ling term friendship during chemo. At times, I do miss the friendship but mostly I feel relief. A person can have a friendship for many years but that doesn't necessarily mean the Friendship is a healthy one. I enjoyed hearing the different stories regarding adult children living at home. let me briefly share with you a friend's story. She and her husband are very low income due to his long illness. She has her 40 year old adult daughter and her boyfriend living with them. Neither the boyfriend nor the adult daughter contribute anything to the household. They both have well-paying jobs but they do not contribute money nor do they assist with any bills or housework. My friend will rant and rave about the living situation. I do not offer any advice. Because quite frankly It isn't any of my business. after a few minutes of listening to the ranting and raving I gently redirect the conversation. I also know she has no intention. Of asking them to leave the home.
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Lita, most people ask questions because they care, are interested, curious etc. Some people ask questions as an opening to express their disagreement, indignation etc. by getting you into a discussion where you must defend you choices. I´ve learned that the latter is rhetorically best handled by in a one-liner replying exactly what they are thinking. In line with this, the answer to your friend´s question why your grown up daughter does not pay rent could be: It´s because we are bad parents, and our daughter is a lazy bitch. This strategy usually leaves the questioner speechless, but once he has got a hold of himself the conversation can go on with other topics as if nothing has happened.
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