STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
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yes, sfcakes, that’s some kind of bad bullshit. Sorry it’s been so rapid fire for you.
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sfcakes- that is total bullshit
elderberry - it feeds into a salmon stream & is part of a SPEA. The city & developers have already thought of it - it's all protected & planned as park/greenbelt. Where my house stands will actually not be built on. But a lot of the wilderness will be gone & turned into "usable" park - you know grass & paved bike lane & playgrounds & crap like that. Not that I mind playgrounds but I mind cutting down 100 year old trees for them. Reclaim a concrete parking lot and rewild it and make it a playground, kwim? Anyway. It's another thing that I can't control & don't even have a timeline for so it's causing me stress.
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I know very well how statistics can be manipulated. Even well-meaning people mess up the data and/or analysis resulting in bad conclusions. Hard to learn to recognize that in a few videos.
T-shirt? The one I'm wearing now says "cloud control". I'm far from an academic and landed in the business world looking for my soul. Probably why I got cancer.
SF-Cakes - I'm sorry your first treatment failed you. I hope the next one works. I have a "fuck cancer" bracelet. We need it on a mask.
Betrayal - I can't imagine seeing kids suffer like you have.
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moth: that really sucks. So sad to see old trees come down and your house turned a bike lane or some other form of open space!
SFcakes: I am truly sorry for the whammies being visited upon you. Just when you realize you have been hit by an oncoming bus -- it backs over you!!!
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Moth, that totally sucks about the development and rezoning. I would feel outraged and aggrieved about the loss of those trees. And the loss of the privacy, and serenity, and magic. Ugh.
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SFcakes - the issue for me is I will have to move. otoh, they might give me bigger $ so there's that. but I don't wanna move and see this lovely little neighbourhood torn up
mets is way worse tho. if someone would take away my mets for the house I'd burn it all down myself
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Moth, seriously, I would make that same trade if it were an option. I'm sorry you have to move, though. THAT is some bullshit!
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sfcakes so sorry you having to deal with this. Hugs to you.
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I know everyone is being made crazy by this virus. IDT operation warp speed was a great success... almost 600,000 people dead in the US.? Really? Yeah that's success. Ok.. you already have cancer. You think a vaccine is going to kill you??HA HA You are already in line...!! IDK know why people continue to think this virus is nothing. I see people in our practice everyday that knows someone who has had it, died or has had the problems afterwards. I am vaccinated but will continue to wear my mask. I don't know the big fucking deal is.... you're already are dying of cancer!!!If it's tomorrow or 5-10 years from now... and yes I will say YOU and Me are dying of cancer. . Let's just get that out there. You think that bitch is gone??? Just lying in wait. My SIL has CA has do I. it is only a matter of time before that bitch gets one of us first. So u do what the fuck u want to do about the vaccine because it does not matter. Not one tiny bit. I work with a person who thinks the vaccine causes sterility .AND "THEY" are also going to take her guns away. There is not a GD thing you can say to people who apparently have no basic understanding of science. I have had it with people who think this is a big mind control experiment.. yep that's the lastest (REALLY THE whole world is involved?) So that is my rant. I am doing the best i can for the majority. If I die from getting the vaccine or cancer or something else... who gives a fuck, We have all lost someone close to us and yet the world turns.
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"you're already are dying of cancer. If it's tomorrow or 5-10 years from now... and yes I will say YOU are dying of cancer. You think that bitch is gone??? Just lying in wait."
WTF???
If you want to believe you will die of breast cancer, go for it.
Since your post wasn't directed at any one person, I assume your comments were directed at the rest of us, everyone who's been posting here. You are saying that we are all doomed. That none of us were successfully treated, with the cancer fully eradicated. Seriously? Yeah, a lot of us will die of cancer. But the majority of people diagnosed today with breast cancer will not die of breast cancer. Fact.
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Thanks, Beesie.
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No I am saying in the end we are all going to move on to somewhere else, Whether we die of breast cancer or something else we all in that line which is life. I'm sorry if if i'm not making my self clear. I am NOT saying that those with breast CA or really any type of CA should throw in the towel. I'm just angry that people are are bitching about getting a vaccine/wearing masks WHEN they already a have disease that might kill them.
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And u know what? If u don't want to get the vaccine that's fine, Everyone has a different opinion. And that's ok. I just felt like i have cancer and if me getting it ( the vaccine) helps someone other than myself i'm good
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Beesie, I hope u understand I was NOT saying people with BC or any other type of CA should just give up. then where would we be? It's txting.You can't get the nuance like u do when u talk to someone.
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Betrayal, to the ageism which has been expressed here, I think that it's a valid topic for discussion - without judgement. I don't disagree that the preventable death of someone elderly who was otherwise enjoying life is tragic. But I don't think that every death is tragic. Sad, yes, but not tragic. My mother lives in a LTC residence, one that fortunately has not had a single case of Covid among their residents. I look at some of the people who live there, and I wonder if they are want to be alive, living the way they are living. I think about my father, who decided at age 87 that he no longer wanted to live with his progressive physical ailments. He was so happy when he made this decision; he'd had a good and interesting life but had reached the point where the physical difficulties outweighed the pleasures. He literally willed himself to death. I think about an extended family member who was a dear friend, still sharp as a tack at 96. He'd been very healthy, but then encountered a serious health problem that required surgery. It was after his recovery that he commented that he was ready to go. Was it tragic then when he died after a second emergency surgery, or was it a blessing? I think about myself, knowing that I would never want to be in my mother's shoes, aged 96 with Alzheimer's and constantly confused. And I look at some of the others who live at her residence, those who cannot communicate and who are fully dependent on others for care and feeding, and I wonder what they would tell us if they could speak.
From what I've read, Covid does not provide a peaceful passing. And with Covid, so many people have died alone, without their loved ones there to hold their hands and provide comfort. From that sense, every death from Covid is tragic. But separate from that, is the Covid death of a physically and mentally incapacitated elderly person as tragic as the Covid death of someone who is 45? I wish we hadn't had any of those deaths, but are they the same?
A very controversial perspective on this comes from Ezekiel Emanual, here: Why I Hope to Die at 75 . He sits at one end of the spectrum on this topic. I don't agree with him for a second. But I'm not all the way over on the other end of the spectrum either. I think that medical science has allowed us to extend life beyond what is desirable for many people. And in that sense, a 'preventable' death of someone who is ready to die might not be that tragic.
Edited to remove reference to KID1919's post, since she has removed her post.0 -
I'm not sad when an individual person dies at old age. But when a great number of individuals suffer or die of the same thing due to proximity and exposure and it's preventable, then it's tragic, no matter the age. That's where I see the difference.
We accept people get cancer, but when a cluster of cancers occur, we investigate. We take our cancer treatments all hoping for better treatments and even a vaccine. Covid is infectious and can kill faster. We have covid vaccines now and ways to reduce transmission, yet people reject them. I'm confused.
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Beesie, I have removed my posts. I can see where they could be taken the wrong way.
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Moth – I hope you can hang on to your paradise. The gobbling up of land and inexpensive housing is scary. My property taxes went up 20% last year and will probably go up another 20-25 % this year. Many people are complaining that they are being priced out of inexpensive homes purchased 10-20 years ago. I live on a small cul-de-sac with homes 1000 SF. I'm sure developers want to knock them all down and build much larger homes. Every time I get one of the postcards/letters with someone wanting to buy my home, I want to scream – but where would I live? Years ago P&Z had proposed blasting a new road through someone's home near-by so they could close off a street. I'm sure a developer had greased a few palms so his little development would be quieter. Many people spoke out against it. P&Z completely redesigned the intersection that would have been closed off.
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Beesie: Sorry but we can agree to disagree about the ageism. The statement that someone who lives beyond the expected age expectancy and then dies is "not a loss, not a tragedy, not a reason to close society and society has been harmed because of it" is pure ageism. Please remember some of those who died survived childhood diseases before vaccines were invented, lived through World Wars, the Depression, etc and were contributors to the lives we now live, so society did benefit from their existence even if tangentially. Their lives mattered to someone.
If someone opts to not survive beyond 75 and yet, due to luck of the draw they do, will this same person take their own life so they can fulfill their prophecy? As far as the 96 year old, I think death became acceptable because it was on their terms. To use advanced age as a criteria for one's determination that someone else has outlived their life expectancy and possibly their societal contributions, just rubs me the wrong way. Personally, I do not view the elderly as a drain on society. Just MHO and that plus $2 will buy you a cup pf Wawa coffee. The end.
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Agree on housing prices. In the past year, 2 homes have sold on my corner. One for over 500k, the other over 600k. That may sound comparatively cheap compared to other areas but for my old built in the 1950s, it’s a lot. The house on the 3 rd corner was demolished last week. I just hope they don’t put up a cookie cutter McMansion on the lot. Won’t fit in the neighborhood.
I get a lot of calls, and some texts from flippers. My voice mail message says if you are a flipper don’t waste my time leaving a message, this house is not for sale.
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A house on my block with an assessed value of $694,110 (which was bought for $400,000 and renovated about four/five years ago) just sold for $849,100, $30,000 over the asking price. Yikes!! We bought ours for less back in 1975 than the extra offered. These are brick and fieldstone row houses over 80 years old. I almost fell over when I heard what the house went for. One of the best investments my husband and I made. No way I could afford it now.
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Betrayal, you are disagreeing with me based on things I never said. Please reread my post.
I never said that I agreed with the statements previously posted. All I said is that I think those statements raise an topic that should be discussed - without judgement. It's a complicated and highly charged issue, and it's understandable that people will have different opinions. Ezekial Emanuel (who is on Biden's Covid response taskforce) and the opinion noted previously are at one end of the spectrum, I fall somewhere in the middle and you appear to be further towards the other end of the spectrum. I may not agree with some of the things said and positions taken, but I respect the right of others to hold their opinions. To me, it's a different perspective on a very complicated issue.
You said "To use advanced age as a criteria for one's determination that someone else has outlived their life expectancy and possibly their societal contributions, just rubs me the wrong way. Personally, I do not view the elderly as a drain on society." I agree with you. The issue I raised was about the elderly who are mentally and physically incapacitated (like many I see at my mother's LTC residence) and who, unlike my father and my dear friend, are not able to voice their preference about continuing to live or preferring to die. Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could all die on our own terms, as my father and my friend did? But these individuals can't because medical science has kept them alive beyond the point at which they can express their wishes. Their families of course want them to live, just as I wanted my father and my friend to live. But would they choose to continue to live, if they could tell us? I suspect many (but certainly not all) would not. This is why this is not a black and white issue to me. This is why it warrants discussion. I hope that as a society we are able to have these discussions openly and without judgement before I land in that position.
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Betrayal- I am pretty sure you are referring to me. Ageism? People under a certain age can't drive cars, vote or buy alcohol. Is that ageism? It probably is. I think you're making it sound like I implied that it's of no consequence that many elderly died (and I think I used the term frail elderly, but I can't remember). And that is a complete misrepresentation of my intent. It IS sad when anyone dies. A loss and sadness to each family that they leave behind. The value of those people to society was not and is not part of the conversation, as far as I am concerned. But I maintain that LIFE YEARS not just lives, must be calculated into this discussion. Because these two numbers (lives and life years) are both critical in viewing the global reaction to covid. I think it's important for people to know these things in order to judge if the actions taken were warranted, justified, wise or criminal. We need ALL the evidence (which is in short supply) and to understand ALL angles and topics that might form further such decisions.
Beesie, I think there is so much food for thought in that article you mentioned. Living LONG and living WELL are NOT the same thing. But that is another topic for another day.
I see many posts have been deleted and if any of them were directed at me I am sorry but I did not see them as I have been out for most of the day and not at my computer to check in. So I'm not ignoring anyone, but I got here after everything was gone.0 -
I work in long term care and agree with you runor. I see many family members who want their loved one (our resident) to live to a 100. Like there is some kind of reward in getting there. It's the quality of life that's important not the quantity. Having said that, there are many of our residents who have good lives even with their physical and cognitive issues. We lost some of them to COVID-19 over the past year and while yes that is tragic, death is part of aging
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DogMomRunner my MIL is in a nursing home, flat on her back with a diaper watching Gunsmoke re-runs. Her form of dementia thankfully doesn't include screaming fear or anger but that is no way to live. That she's content doesn't make it a good life. She'll run out of money soon, and while she can stay where she is (so glad for that), she will have to have a roommate. That's going to be very hard for her, especially if her roommate is one of the people w/ the very agitated type of dementia.
I do not want to end like that.
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edj3- I didn't say all of our residents have a quality of life that we would want for them or for ourselves. Sometimes all they have are moments of contentment. And I do know how terrifying/confusing it can be for those who have cognitive impairment. My own mother has dementia although she is still able to live with my dad. If I were/am diagnosed with dementia, I would take a different path
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I have dementia myself. Still home and in early stages and pray will be able to stay there until the end. Probably that will kill me though.
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runor, those recently deleted posts were not directed at you.
DogMomRunner and edj3, you are both getting into the issues that I was raising. I appreciate, DogMomRunner, that as someone working in LTC, you have the perspective you do. The question is, at what point does quality of life take over from quantity of life, i.e. extra years of living? That question has been top of mind for me since spending time (although not recently, due to Covid restrictions) with my mother at her LTC, looking broadly at the residents there. I'm not passing judgement on any individuals, because I recognize that the decision on quality of life vs. quantity of life is individual to each of us. As you say, some residents at your LTC have good lives even with their physical and cognitive issues. My DH (who like you worked in LTC) has described his father as being very happy living out his last years in a LTC facility, despite being in a wheelchair and having severe dementia. But the possibility of living that way was the worst nightmare for my father, to such an extent that he was able to will himself to die before that happened, when he was still very much mentally capable but just about to reach a point of physical disability that was unacceptable to him. This is a decision we each need to make for ourselves; the problem is that it's rare that we even have the discussion. Because medical science can now keep people alive beyond the point at which they can express their preferences, for so many people we don't know what they want, whether they would choose quantity over quality. And even if we knew, there is nothing we can do about it. Our society defaults to quantity. That's good for some, but my heart aches for those who are miserable living the way they do but are unable to say or do anything about it.
What is quite telling to me is that the only two elderly people with whom I've had this discussion - while they were still fully cognizant - both voiced a desire to die rather than live incapacitated or subject to severe health issues. Neither were talking about some distant future; they were talking about tomorrow. As for the future, everyone I know who's been exposed to severe dementia or the severity of illness among many residents (but not all, of course) in LTC residences, strongly feels that they would not want to live this way. That highlights to me how important this topic is, and yet it is rarely discussed.
And to runor's point, given that the choice of some people might be different than the position of our society, this becomes an important part of the future assessment of the actions that were taken to combat Covid. Was it wise to shut down schools for the better part of a year (or longer in many cases), possibly impacting the entire life opportunity of millions of children who don't have the resources or support to effectively learn on-line, in order to reduce LTC deaths to zero? Was it wise to isolate LTC residents, with no family contact for months, in order to reduce LTC deaths to zero? My mother is in LTC residence that has seen no Covid deaths, so in my own little world, that was a good decision, although I am devastated by the decline in her abilities and wonder how much was caused by the isolation and worry. In the whole world that's been affected by Covid, in hindsight, when all the dust settles, did we do the right thing? Will we decide to do things differently next time?
Of course, we should all be so lucky as to reach the an elderly age where the quality vs. quantity decision is relevant to us personally.
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Life years was a consideration here in Quebec. When the pandemic first hit, the hospitals were overrun. Frail elderly in hospitals were transferred to LTC and died. We had so many outbreaks. Quebec has a disproportionate death rate among seniors. We're well above most developed nations.
I've had an advanced health directive since I completed stage III treatments. I wondered if I would be denied life-saving measures if I got sick. Rather than find out, I've stayed away from people, masked up when I couldn't, and gotten my first dose.
Unless a country is aiming for zero covid, the public health restrictions are implemented to protect healthcare capacity, not save specific lives. Maybe your policy makers didn't want to go the way Quebec did?
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