STEAM ROOM FOR ANGER
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I makes me SO mad when I hear about husbands and grown children not helping; not being emotionally supportive, and not helping physically around the house.
They are just plain selfish. I am so sorry for those of you who have to deal with that. 
I live alone, and therefore deal with most everything myself, and sometimes it is very hard, but it's better than having to deal with that. I am divorced, and that's good now, because I know he would not be very supportive. I have two grown sons, who alway make sure someone takes me to all my appts/treatments, they are great. I feel bad relying on them too much, because they both have jobs that require many hours a week, and they are raising their families. And sometimes it is hard to talk about things with them, because they are men! Having a daughter would be easier with breast cancer. So I keep most of the emotional stuff to myself, and have the occasional breakdown. I was on meds for depression before cancer. And now I don't think I will ever get off them.And as happens, I have lost all my friends. The first group left after the divorce, even though my ex was a bastard and a cheater, and they all sided with me, but I guess they just didn't know what to do with a single person. Then after the first BC dx, and living with PMPS, Iost one best friend to cancer. And the final two this past year. I know it happens a lot, but I will never understand how family and friends ditch people when they are going thru the hardest thing in their life. CANCER SUCKS!
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Mimi~ I can't imagine doing any of this alone. Somedays when I wake up, I just want to go back to bed. It is the only place where I get a relief from my mind over processing that I have cancer. You're a strong woman. Obviously, someone who knows what life is about and knows that they gotta do what they gotta do. I want to light a fire cracker up and under my bigger kids ass, and see if they even notice its going to burn them. I know it seems kinda my fault also being an enabler. Their father and I divorced when my youngest was 8, but their step father is better than the real thing. He Didn't hold a job, still pays child support and my oldest is 21,youngest 20. Just not reliable. So I can also say I know that If was still married to him, it would not be good. He just wouldn't be able to handle it. But my current DH of 14 years is amazing. I know my kids are in denial, I am the only parent they really know, I was the one who raised them. We did. So for this to happen to their closest parent seems so wrong and just mean. I sometimes wonder what's up there. If anything or anyone is even listening. It's a scary thought, but I find my mind going there. Just does......I have never been overally religious, but something's gotta give. Enough is enough. It's time for good things to happen. For a while now shitty things have just been happening everywhere. It's like psycho land! All I can do is one day at a time. One fit bit hour at a time. I'm going to try to run at least one day this week, I wore myself out last week with three days of 40min runs. Now this week I am exhausted mentally and physically!! ~M~
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This whole cancer thing is terrifying on so many levels and one of them, one that I hate to admit, may be the end of my marriage.
My husband is a good guy. Everyone loves him. I love him! He does everything for everyone. If you call with a problem he will run to your side. And someone else will call, and someone else will call, and someone after that....
My Hub is addicted to being a hero, he is addicted to being adored. He is addicted to showing up at your house and cleaning your gutters for you and having done that one thing, you will remember him fondly forever and recall that time he really helped you out of a bind.
Well, I get into binds too. But guess what? When I am in a bind and look around for help, I am alone. I have dealt with so much life shit completely on my own because my husband is absent, run off, helping someone else. Saving the day for someone else. You see, your wife, with whom you have a sustained and ongoing relationship wants sustained and ongoing input - that is a lot of output for him without ever getting that 'oh my god you are my hero' high that he gets from helping out, once, people who are not his intimate partners. He puts out minimal effort for maximum addiction release. With me, what I need from him is ongoing, I need a lifetime of sustaining and relating and that is too much work. He wants a quick fix,. A cheap and easy hero hit.
People have said horrible things about me for the past 30 years, that I do not 'appreciate' the good guy I have. Those same people have zero concept of the neglect that has been handed to me. How could they? All they know is that my Hub helped them with something. What they do not grasp is that while he is helping them and everyone else, he is gone, absent, not available for me! This is not an accident. This is the life he designed. This is the life he finds most rewarding. This is what he wants. He does what he wants. If it hurts me ... that's MY fault for being hurt, not HIS fault for being hurtful.
I have been told that we can't change people. This is true. It is the job of every human to look at how they are affecting someone else and if they are being asswads, it's their responsibility to change, or leave. But to stay and hand out neglect and passive abuse is NOT OKAY. IT is not my job to change my husband. It is his job to care enough about me to change himself!! And this is where things fall apart.
To the many people who take the view that people can't change I say, bullshit. We are born shitting our pants and eating with our hands. If you reach adulthood NOT shitting in your pants and NOT eating with your hands, you have demonstrated a capacity to change and learn and do things a different way. So the belief that people can't change is dead wrong. People CAN. The people who DO NOT change are doing so as a deliberate, obtuse, hateful decision. They are perfectly capable of change, they just don't think they have a good enough reason to change.
Now, with this cancer diagnosis, I have asked my husband, pleaded, for change. I have asked him to please cut out all the addictive other serving that he does and please just be here. With me. I want him by me, close to me, I want to see him at the end of the work day and I want to spend the weekends with him. I want to work beside him getting out do-list worked through. I want us to Be Together. It is desperately important to me right now, Please, please, please step up and deliver. If ever there was a time to set aside self serving and frankly selfish interest, it's now. Yes, I am needy right now. But considering how I have done everything alone for the past 30 years, I think this is not an unreasonable request.
Hub thinks it is.
And that is one failure too many for my old ticker to take. Hearing that I have cancer was a huge, cold stone in my stomach. Realizing that my husband is not going to change anything to help me through is the stone that will sink me as I flail to keep my head above water. It's like he's saying, 'well you might have cancer but I don't and I see no reason to allow your cancer to affect my life so...'
My heart and soul need a win. I need him to be my hero. I am not asking him to quit his job or give up after work beer with his friends. I am asking him to limit the outside people he serves, because the list of people who expect him to do things for them is endless. I am married to a generous helper whose helping of others is a form of socially rewarded spousal abuse. The Nice Guy. I need him to be MY nice guy and I fear, to my core, that failure to deliver means I will die alone. Now or later, this is the make or break moment in our marriage. We are on thin ice as it is. I feel doubly shit on.
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Runor
I've been following your posts. That last one was incredible! Boy, do you have an understanding of relationships and the balance needed in them.
Could I make the suggestion that you copy this last, amazingly clear, post and print it out for him to read.
If he doesn't do something then, to address those incredibly well articulated problems within your marriage, yes, I would be concerned. Then at least a different strategy would have to be employed by you, counselling on your own, or visiting a Solicitor for advice (what we call Attorneys).
My heart goes out to you. You should not have to deal with two bereavements - for that's what's happening here from what you've explained.
What do you think of my suggestion, is it worth a shot?
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runor~while I don't have the DH issues you have, I can understand the pulling at him from others, work,scout pack,ex bitch oh I mean wife, who can't parent on her own, always whining. She has no idea what hard life is all about. Step into our shoes sister!! What I came away with from your posting, Is you need to let him read our forum. Let him read others. Just drop it in his lap and let him read away. Not just your words but others. He seems to be into what others think. Let him take a gander of some suffering and pain that we endure daily. I agree behaviors can change. Sometimes I look to their parents to see what kind of up bringing they had, but I believe you mentioned they were no longer around. Now is the time to spell it out, now is the time you need to have all of your team dressed and ready to take the field. You mentioned the ending of your marriage. I think he needs to be hit with the reality shock button. Let him see it in writing in all statements it made here to us. The support you're not getting. Spell it out, talk to him like you would To to this forum, just in a kind manner and raw emotion that you clearly have. When I read that you want to be together and you need him be want him around. Those are things that you Should want. That's normal, so please don't think that anything you need is wrong it's not. I realize with my diagnosis I feel like I'm drawing my last breath some days it so heavy and emotional. But I'm fighting like hell and you need to as well. If you're stage two you can totallykick some cancer ass and be done with this. But the aftermath of this battle can't be a marriage that has been alive for so many years. If you find you're beating a drum and no ones dancing after in your heart you've given it all to him and gotten no support from him. He needs to be told look buddy. I see things differently now. I am different now. And I need you. If you aren't willing to be my partner and help me live, then what do we have ? Ask him the questions but make him give you the answers. You deserve to speak your mind and be heard. Tell him point blank actions speak louder than words. Gentle hugs to you. I know I am not your DH, hell im not even a man. But I know deep down inside, they really do want to be our heroes. Sometimes they just need to be pushed off a cliff like what has happened to us. Will send some prayers of strength ~M~
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I made that post.
I had a bath.
I thought I should delete that post as it is just more of the same bitching and complaining I have done for years. It makes me sound like a demanding, traitorous bitch.
Hub tells me all I do is find things to complain about. I thought, maybe he has a point. But then I thought more and realized that the things I complain about are the SAME things all the time. The agony I express is the agony that has gone unattended for all these years. I am, overall, mostly content and low maintenance. I've been driving the same truck for 21 years now! We live a humble life. I do not want diamonds, furs, world trips or to keep up with the Jonses. I just want his willing and happy presence, relaxed, unhurried, as he has coffee with me, or sits in a waiting room with me. I HATE the feeling that he is always checking his watch because he knows someone else is waiting for him, someone else wants his attention. I HATE that! I want him to make me safe, make his attention my special gift, by blocking out all others who crash the boundaries of our intimate space with their demands. But be clear, if they crash the boundaries, it's not because they intend to disrupt us. THe fault is not theirs. The fault is Hub's, for not applying the brakes, for not saying no, for not tolerating his own discomfort at NOT being a hero to everyone else.
He knows all this. There is nothing in anything I've written that he hasn't heard a thousand times. I am clear and concise, I do not expect him to read my mind.
So. I came here to delete that last post of mine. But I won't. I do not say I hate him. I do not hate him. I am nuts about him. But it cuts me to the soul that he is so very casual about tending my needs. He is not mean, he does not hit me or yell at me or tell me I'm fat or stupid. He just....doesn't...see me. His head long rush to make sure he feels good all the time, by saving the world one deed at a time, is an addiction, it is abusive, it is neglectful and it is time he quits it. I will allow my words to stand. God forgive me.
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Runor, glad you're not going to delete your post. It's your feelings, and you have a every right to feel them. You are NOT demanding! Asking, begging your spouse for some support, is not demanding. It's a right that any wife deserves. As you now know, he will never change, if your cancer diagnosis didn't do it, nothing will. Your words speak volumes, such as agony, and cutting you to your soul. This breaks my heart, as I know it does yours, and this is no way to live, in any circumstances, let alone when you're fighting this awful disease. You do not need the constant emotional upset and stress. I think some counseling would be good, and if he won't go (which I'm assuming he won't), go yourself. Please keep us posted, and keep venting here, better to get it out, than hold it in! Sending some prayers your way, for added strength to deal with this mess, one way or another. 🙏✌🏼️💜
Micmel, one of my sons was totally in denial when his dad left us. It was too painful for him think that his dad could do all of the horrible things he did. I'm sure your kids are doing the same. It's too painful for them to even conceive they might lose their mom. Some counseling for them might be helpful in that matter. However, it doesn't mean they should be allowed to not help you. Even if you have enabled them in the past to get away with it, now is the time to remedy that. Sit down with them and explain, that you are having a hard time physically, and you need their help. They are definitely old enough! Tell them you are starting something new, called chores! Don't ask them for help, tell them what they need to do, and make sure they do it. Let them moan and complain if need be, after all that's what kids do, as long as they do the work. Make lists if you need to, or set consequences if not done, whatever it takes to get the help you need. Your hubby should be helping in this matter, where is he as far as physical help?
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Micmel, I second what Mimi says. Your kids aren't pre-schoolers any more. They need to start REALLY helping.
I used to have a BIG problem with my DD b4 I was even dx'd. I had to lay the law down. I told her even back then that some day she would have her own apartment and SHE'D have to take care of it because I certainly wasn't going to drive across town (much less fly, if she settled in another state) and clean and cook for her. It was hard, but she finally got the picture.
Now she WANTS to help with cooking because she knows my months are numbered and she wants to learn all the old Italian and Mexican recipes that are stuck in my head. My mother was old school...she never wrote recipes down. We learned by watching and tasting. DD likes to watch Lidia Bastianich and Martha Stewart and try those cooking ideas now, too.
We are not doing our kids any favors by not teaching them how to take care of themselves: meal plan, shop for groceries, cook, clean, do their own laundry. Even if we didn't have cancer, we're not going to live forever. Any of us could die from a heart attack, get killed driving down the highway, etc. Most of us who are in our 40s or older learned how to do all this stuff when we were teenagers. My mom initially came down with soft tissue sarcoma cancer when I was 12, so I had to learn all that stuff at a younger age.
Nevertheless, it's hard to implement a chore program when the kids are older. [That's why I always say get them started when they're in primary school...they can clear the kitchen table, sort and fold clothes and put stuff away when they're 6 years old and even younger.] So you'll have to sit them down and have the proverbial "come to Jesus meeting" with them. As long as your kids don't have major psychological or developmental issues, they'll be able to handle the TRUTH when you sit down and lay it out for them.
My mom's sarcoma came back when I entered high school.
She died.
I want to thank her for being strict with my 4 brothers and me because we can all take care of ourselves. It was hard taking care of the household after she was gone...I was still only a teenager. But it would have been much harder if I hadn't learned how to cook, clean and do laundry long b4 she died.
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Thanks ladies, and I agree with you completely. my DH and I have two homes. His job is in one place for the week and on long holidays and weekends, he is here with me and our house here. We basically take care of two households, I have two kids from my first marriage and he has a son from his, believe it or not we met online by chance, and here we are 14 years later still together. My DD is a student and so is my DS, she works full time and he is a part time student and he also works the rest of the time. They are good kids, and i have basically raised them myself. Had a bad divorce and then found the love of my life. They have their chores, my DS mows the lawn, they do their own laundry. When I feel ok, i don't mind helping. It's the little nagging shit like dishes in the sink in the morning or finding them in their rooms. Overflowing laundry baskets instead of doing smaller loads, shoes all over or being reminded weekly to put out the trash. I also know they have eyes, if the floor needs sweeping or vacuuming, then just freaking do it, my DH takes care of that home three hours away during the week and shared custody of his son there during the week. He is a soon to be junior and has just made Eagle Scout. He has chores at the house there.We have a very close family and we have blended extremely well. My DH is always working and traveling and I refuse to have him do anything here when he walks in the house after working and driving three hours after a long ass week. I want them to recognize things as adults without being followed around all the time. Just open their eyes and see it. Like I had to when my first husband and I split. I took care of everything and if I am honest I kinda still do, even though some days I feel like absolute shit. Last week I jogged about 11 miles. And it felt great. I cleaned ithe entire house and that includes the bathrooms and floors. I was a Tasmanian devil. I even weeded the side yard garden. Alone. And they were big ass thistle weeds. Mini trees. I overall do pretty Darn good. I just don't want to continually ask. I didn't ask them if they wanted me to keep a roof over their heads all these years while their father hid from the courts and paying child support. I have told them pretty much what could happen, and they have been to doctors with me And they both always drive me. They get me food and do grocery trips. They are trying. I know inside they are scared. I have always been the one they could count on. Their closest relative. To me it just seems mean. That this would happen to our little family. We never hurt anyone. This disease just hurts too many families and good people. I just don't always know the right things to say. I don't want to be looked at as weak and needy either. I always kicked ass. I never let anything keep me down. I did what I had to do and live a great life. I have always gotten what I wanted. I guess we are all still in shock. Even though it's been over a year now. I just pray the medicine keeps working. I just pray. Thank you for the advice. I think I'm going to drag out the ole white board and magic markers. Designate things without speaking. Yes yes I am!! Chore board making A return appearance!! Goodnight ladies! ~M~
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Thumbs up, Micmel!
And sometimes we have to pick our battles. I STILL have problems with DD...for example, yes, she did her laundry, but she left the basket of clean clothes in the TV room on the hassock for about a week. I didnt say a word. I figured, "When she runs out of underwear, i guess she'll come empty the basket."
DH doesnt clean the stove top to my standards, but hey, at least he does the dishes. I'll keep him 😇
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Micmel, wonderful that your blended family works so well. Sounds llike you've got a head start with the kids, now just add the chore board and you'll be good!
My mom passed away tonight. Just got home from watching the mortuary take her away.
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Mimi~ my heart breaks for you. I am so sorry. Please accept these virtual hugs and comfort, I have no words for something like that and I feel is the worst part of living at all. Please know you're in my thoughts and prayers. I know my mom has been sick for months now. She lives far and I can't see her. I am sending you my love and hoping that there was no suffering involved. God bless you and your family. I am deeply sorry. Deeply. Hugs ~M~
Lita~ good advice on picking battles. I agree. I hope that you're having a good day today. My son has ran out of underclothing before and that has prompted movement. For laundry. It has always sounded like you have a good DH Lita. That makes me happy. Hugs ~M~
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Well ladies, all I can say is you have made me really appreciate my DH quite a bit. We do have a "sick sense of humor" though. He's had a transplant and was super sick prior to getting it and has been near death's door knocking about 4 times since then as well. We've been fortunate enough that he hasn't been trying to die on me when I've had medical stuff going on at the same time. We had both of his parents die during this time as well and a sibling. We had one parent move in with us for a bit and is now in her senior building. We go to each other appointments so we have another brain since neither of us can remember everything. A sense of humor is all that gets us through it all. I think the docs and nurses at the hospital think we a just crazy and need a padded room though!
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~Oh Mimi~
I am so sorry about your mother. Please accept my deepest condolences and know I will keep you in my thoughts. I know how hard this is.
I hadn't been able to see my mother while I was in treatment because she lived 1500 miles away. I went home in August and spent two wonderful weeks with her. She died 3 weeks later.
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velvet and mimi, I'm so sorry for your loss. I know the pain of losing a parent and there are just no words. You are in my heart.
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Mimi, you have my deepest sympathies.
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Velvet and Mimi, I am sorry for these losses. It seems life steam rolls over us despite how we feel about things, or how well prepared we are to withstand them. I hope peace and healing find you both.
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Thank you all for the condolences. Last week the doctor told us she had pneumonia and congestive heart failure, her body wasn't able to process all that fluid, and he said she had probably about a week, and he was right, it was 8 days. She went in the best way possible, went to sleep, as her breathing slowed down, until it finally stopped. It was her time, she had no kind of real life these past few months. My head knows this, but my heart just can't accept it yet. She was my mom! I was her baby, the closest to her, and the most like her, which is a compliment, because she was a wonderful person. I can't believe I'll never see her again. And of course it's most difficult at this time, I didn't tell her about my new metastatic dx. I had to start my 2nd cycle of Xeloda this morning, and I so didn't want to do it. And it's also very difficult, being alone, the only divorced one. All of the family, siblings, children, nieces and nephews, are all married, so they have a spouse for support, I'm the only one going home to an empty house. Looks like the funeral won't be until the 19th, so I have quite a few days to suffer thru before putting her to rest. Thanks for letting me vent, for listening, and for the sympathy. I know many of you have been thru this.
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My heart goes out to Velvet and Mimi and all those who have recently lost someone they love.
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Mimi~ I am so sorry. I can hear the emotion In your words. I am truly deeply sorry for your loss, there are no words ever. Especially when it's your mother. I hope you find peace somehow knowing you have an angel above who is earning her wings wtching over you and those she loves. And yes I say loves. Because she's still with you. Everywhere. I'll be praying for your family! ~M~
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Thank you Micmel
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Got to vent. I had dinner last night with a friend I hadn't seen in quite a while, and I shared with her my recent dx of generalized anxiety disorder dx, made worse at times by the Aromasin I have to take. I told her over dinner I have to guard against anxiety and anxiety making topics, and she proceeded immediately to share a story with me (prefacing it first: "I probably shouldn't tell you this") about the spouse of a friend of hers, who has just been dx with some kind of c (the spouse had bc and got tx years ago for it; my "friend" didn't have any more information about what kind of cancer it is now. She said uterine; however, I heard this same story from this same "friend" about this same person about 7 years ago; I don't know what to believe anymore from her, just that she's heartless, I guess).
What is wrong with people? When you tell them that you are suffering from anxiety and they know you're often worried about recurrence or new development, they immediately launch into some awful story like this? With friends like that, who needs enemies? I guess that's why they call them "frenemies". It happens a lot to me. I am very careful who I tell my history to, since so many people want to say "Oh, my sister/mother/friend/aunt/ had b.c., and she died".
Just had to vent because I was the one who contacted her (friend)--she lives alone and just retired, not by choice, and I felt some compassion for her because I thought she might be lonely. Now I'm just shocked again that people can be so cold and heartless when you've trusted them. Thanks for listening. People are freaking stupid.
Claire
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Claire, it never fails. The minute you tell someone you have cancer, they immediately feel the need to tell you about everyone they ever knew who had it, and that they died. Like we want to hear that?! As you said, freakingstupid.
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Or to give you unsolicited Dr Phil and Dr Oz type of advice. My fam is like this which is why only my bff and bro know because they aren't.
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I get mad at dh, he just get it or me. Like I can not STAND to see anything connected to bc or any type of cancer crap on television. I don't want to see them advertising for more people to come and be tortured at their dumbass cancerland. What? They don't have enough money making patients already? He knows I hate it and insist he change the channel when those stories come on the news or on commercials. He argues about changing the frigging channel for a minute. Tries to act like I am just annoying and fussy. He was almost never supportive when I was actively being "treated" He even compared me to our old neighbor who didn't have as much "treatment"as me, said I wasn't as good a cancer patient as she was. I wasn't able to cook and clean as much as she was. He was and still is a dumbass so much of the time. I say to him, when he says these horrible things, that he is letting out his inner a**hole. The sheer nerve, to compare me to another suffering woman when I was neutropenic and anemic.
We are getting on better most days, but sometimes, like tonight, he was being a real jerk again. The biggest difference now is I am prepared to let him walk away, like he threatened repeatedly during the whole torturous mess of surg/rads/chemo. I won't put up with his manipulative crap any more. Basically I demand Respect for my views and my feelings. If he says, "That's it, if you don't (fill in the blank), I am leaving" , I will tell him " Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out" This emancipation I have experienced was a huge shock to him. I have suffered too much to put up with rude, disrespectful crap or unsupportive people, including him. Even after 15 years together, no more stupid nonsense will be tolerated.
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A good cancer patient! What the H is that, be subject to brutal treatment but smile through it. I wouldn't let anyone give that nonsense either. Especially my husband.
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Macbo4, I did some research on the so called Cancer treatment ctrs OF America (the ones who advertise on tv all the time), and they are somewhat sketchy. They only accept people they think will have a good outcome. If you're stage 4, they really don't' want you.
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Macb, good for you for getting to the point to stand up for yourself and demand respect! Each day I am flabbergasted by hearing stories like yours, about family members and friends, saying the most awful things. I can't believe how selfish and uncaring people are to their own loved ones. Boy would things change if it were them with cancer.
Lita, interesting about CTC of America, those commercials drive me nuts! They make it all sound so warm and fuzzy, and like every cancer patient has wonderful supportive spouse. UGH
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I know! It makes it sound like a resort spa! Anything that is so heavily advertised like that is always suspicious to me.
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Cancer Centers of America will not accept any government insurance... even Veterans. They only accept "private insurance."
Coach Vicky
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