Medical Marijuana
I have been reading story after story, including scientific ones, about how MMJ can make a HUGE difference. I believe it can, and it's legal here in Colorado.
My girlfriend has stage four breast cancer. She is not doing well. She has tried a bunch of chemos, but nothing works. We have just heard about MMJ oil, and bought some. It is a 12-1 CBD:THC tincture. I hired an MMJ consultant, and she suggested that we instead use 1:1 CBD:THC. She said the stuff that we had bought won't do anything - there needs to be more THC in the mix.
MY GF has a temporary card, but that won't let us buy on MMJ weekends. No places that we have called have the 1:1 tincture. But we can buy one of each and mix them.
This is hugely frustrating. Plus, you have to have the right ratios for the right cancer, according to what I read. My consultant said it doesn't matter. Then the is Simpson's oil, to add to the mix.
So much confusion, and time is going by. We don't know what ratios we need. Any suggestions?
Thanks.
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I am not even going to pretend to know much about this as I find it confusing as well, but I'll tell you what I do know b/c you all are up against time. First of all, it sounds as if you're going to need to make your own oil and I found some instructions that sound easier and safer than anything else I've seen. Rather than cooking the solvent/alcohol down, which is extremely flammable, you just leave it out on the counter overnight, as alcohol evaporates quite quickly. I know this to be true too--I left out 1/4 cup rubbing alcohol and it was gone the next day. You may have to cook the weed first tho since that's what activates the THC--what I don't know tho is if the THC needs to be active to work--as for me, I'd rather not get high. I have also heard of the 1:1 ratio but I don't think I'd get too hung up on that now--just get it in her and see how she does. Please check in and let us know how it all goes. Oh and This
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hi,i had a lumpectomy a few months ago and waiting to start radiotherapy, I'm also taking tamoxifen. iv been looking into the possible use of cbd (hemp oil) and was wondering if it would be safe to use with the tamoxifen. some sites say it helps and others say it inhibits cyp2d6. would be grateful for any help, thanks
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Teresad1-
Welcome to BCO! We hope you find this community to be a source of support as you begin your radiation treatment.
It's always best to check with your doctor to find out if there are any possible interactions between supplements or holistic treatments you'd like to try and the medication you're currently taking. We aren't medical professionals, so any advice you get here would only be anecdotal, and when it comes to medicine and treatment, you want to be absolutely sure!
The Mods
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Hi there,
I have posted a lot about medical marijuana....please take a look at some of these posts...I'd be happy to help you better understand what it actually is, and what you need to know before you buy.
All the best to you and your GF!
Twinkly
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Hi teresad1, here is an excerpt from http://www.greenmedinfo.com/node/86554/affiliate
The reality is that tamoxifen, a known carcinogen, exists in order to make money.
There is no other equally compelling explanation for why the conventional medical establishment uses chemicals that cause cancer to treat cancers caused by chemicals. No matter how institutionalized this insane and illogical approach to cancer treatment has become, it only makes economic sense to the industry who invented it. To the patient, it ultimately defrauds them of both their health and money.
The modern oncology drug printing-press rivals the Federal Reserve in its ability to convert nothing of value into something of great value; through a sleight-of-hand, and the collusion of hundreds of thousands of folks in medicine-associated fields ("more make a living off of cancer than die from it"), this industry converts extremely toxic chemicals (some of which have chemical weapons designations, such as HN1, HN2 and HN3, forms of nitrogen mustard-based chemotherapy) into successful, multi-billion dollar drugs, some bearing markups as high as 500,000% from cost.[ii] We have discussed this problem in greater depth in our article:Has Drug-Driven Medicine Become A Form of Human Sacrifice?
At GreenMedInfo.com we have expended considerable effort indexing research on natural compounds which exhibit anti-breast cancer properties, including in multi drug resistant cancer cell lines, and tamoxifen-resistant ones. In total, we have 249 natural substances indexed of potential value, as well as 61 carcinogens implicated in breast cancer pathogenesis. To view this research, provided open access, visit our Breast Cancer Research page.
For additional Breast Cancer research, visit our Breast Cancer Health Guide.
Also, medical marijuana, CBD and any other cannabinoid will help your body through the toxic load that tamoxifen puts on your body, and may help to protect from the carcinogenic effects of tamoxifen.
Hope this helps!!
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No offense, Ms. Twinkly, but there are two websites I take seriously with respect to illness, disease, cancer, etc.
1. NIH (national institute of health)
2. The Mayo Clinic.
Tamoxifen has been around for 30 + years, and it's been proven to lessen recurrence rate of estrogen receptor cancer.
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Dear Guy,
I live in CA, and most MMJ dispensaries sell a tincture (oil) called "Prana P3," and it is 1:1 CBD:THC. If you heat it up a little, it activates the THC component, but I don't like the THC high - I get anxious and paranoid, so I don't heat it up. The Prana, however, tastes REALLY nasty! (Heavy pot taste.) Even if you mix it with juice, you can still taste it, and when you burp, you taste it too. Small price to pay for healing.
I am seeing my MMJ specialist on Monday. I don't see a problem with mixing the two...I'll ask her about it. I also have Stage IV, and opioids don't work for me...they don't take away the deep bone pain from my metastases and they also tend to raise my liver ALTs thru the roof. Sadly, my lower lumber bone mets are getting worse, so I hope my MMJ specialist can help with that. Dosing can be pretty tricky. Previously she said try not to take more than 25-30 mgs a day because, like anything else, the cancer gets used to it and finds a way to get around it, just like mutating to get around chemo and keep growing.
Hope to have more info for you by late Monday. Give your GF a hug for me, and tell her to hang in there.
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I finally got my dosing instructions from the Onco NP specializing in medical cannabis today. She wants me to work my way gradually up to 200mg of CBD and 50 mg of THCa per day.
THAT'S A LOT OF MEDICAL MARIJUANA TO CONSUME IN ONE DAY! (Anything over 50 mgs is considered a lot.)
For criminy sakes, that's practically an entire bottle of tincture (they usually come in bottles of 300 mg), and at $75 to $90 a pop, that comes to $2,250 per month, if you're spending $75 a day. I can't even see myself doing HALF that every day. I'm on disability, and it doesn't pay what I'm used to netting each month, and when my State disability runs out, I'll have to file for Soc Sec disability which will be HALF of what I'm getting from the State. So how the heck am I supposed to pay for this?
Alternative medicine ain't cheap.
What are other people doing?
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twinkly
I am in agreement that Tamoxifen is made by drug companies who want to make money.
HOWEVER, so is CBD oil. I am very close to some folks who own large pharmacies in California.
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bet they don't grow organically either
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Abigail
Exactly. Although I am starting to see some organic brands!!
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I finally gave in and went out and bought a vape pen and cartridges. My outside oncology nurse consultant (who specializes in alternative and cannabis) told me to get a pen a couple of months ago to deal with break thru neuralgia and fibromyalgia-like pain.
The breaking point for me was this weekend. Friday night, I only slept ONE hour because of pain. Slept a few hours more on Sat night, but Sunday night was the worst. I couldn't even find a comfortable position to wait it out, the pain on my right side was so bad.
All it took was one hit off the vape pen (of course I coughed and wheezed, ha ha, since I haven't taken a toke off a joint for almost TEN years), but it did the trick. I actually went into a deep sleep where I could remember my dreams! That hasn't happened in a while. I used the Blackberry Kush variety that my onco nurse recommended. It's an indica strain, so it didn't cause me any anxiety or agitation like sativa strains do.
Lucky I live in a legal medical marijuana state!
Take care, dear friends, and here's hoping for some relief for you all.
Lita
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For some reason, I didn't take my cannabis for the last few days, and I'm really feelin' it now. Stomach pain, major fatigue, headache...just took a third of a square of dark chocolate w/cannabis. Hope I function better. I'm going to take some more this evening, and hopefully I'll be able to sleep.
L
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probably good to take a break now and then if you can. will work stronger if you're not too hapituated. I use the essential oils in a three month round, one month for each of the three, third month is two, thyme and camomie. the camomile is great because of the strong sweet smell
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Yeah, abigail, I thought of that, too...taking a break. I wanted to see how I'd feel after NOT taking it for a few days. Now I know.
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I got this advice from a nutritionist who is fighting stage IV bone mets
'Another trick to implement is disease confusion. Just like traditional medicine (and exercise), cannabis oil can become ineffective, if your cancer builds up a tolerance to it. So the solution there is to use essential oils to confuse the stem cells.
Cinnamon bark, cinnamon leaf, and cinnamon root oil are recommended for this. If you add 1-3 drops of ONE of these oils to your ENTIRE supply of cannabis oil, and switch it every time, that should suffice. To enhance this effect, however, it's to switch oils every 3 days.'
I haven't done too much research around this yet as I have only been doing cannabis and CBD for about 3 months.... will be looking into this deeper
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I have been taking cannabis via vape for sleep. The strain is called "On the Couch." Lol.
It's been working beautifully. Then, I was told by the pharmacist at Dana Farber that cannabis interferes with Tamoxifen.
Pretty frustrated to find out that several of my go-to herbs interfere with Tamoxifen.
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Oh, that sucks, gardengypsy!!! Are they sure?
My oncology nurse consultant, who specializes in medical cannabis, says that vaping doesn't go directly into the liver. It's absorbed by the lungs and into the bloodstream immediately, and that's why it works so well for break-out pain and sleeping. Edibles and tinctures that you swallow are another animal entirely. They go into the stomach and are processed by the liver (that's why it takes an hour or more for them to kick in), and if you're taking another Rx, they could interfere with it. She recommends taking edibles a least a couple of hours AFTER or BEFORE you take any other Rx so that the other med can get into your system, be processed and not be as affected by cannabis.
So what the heck are we supposed to do now? Other sleep meds can cause problems, too. I've heard horror stories about people sleep walking and sleep driving because of Ambien and Halcion. Medical marijuana doesn't cause those problems.
Are you just taking the Tamox in the am? Is there some way we can compromise? When I vape, and it's not that often, I only take a couple of hits....not like sucking down an entire doobie. Did they say exactly HOW it interferes? I'm asking because cannabis works wonders for cancer patients. It's the only think that helps my deep bone pain from metastases and helps with my nausea. You might as well throw Zofran out the window....it's like gulping Tic Tacs.
Lita
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Lita,
So frustrated that I did not see your reply to my post. It's one of the drawbacks to this site.
I don't know what to say, but I have to keep on vaping or I will never sleep. Another one the pharmacist told me not to take was the Turmeric.
Also, I was advised not to take my beloved Valerian, also essential for my sleep and wellbeing.
Dana Farber also gave me a handout which explained how each supplement interfered with the Tamoxifen.
Really, really worried.
Gardengypsy aka Mere
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gardengypsy,
You can can flag a thread as a "favorite " ( add to my favorite topics) and request email notification (add email notification)if there are new posts. That way, you never miss a reply.
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Gardengypsy: Can they substitute something else for the Tamoxifen? There are women who can't tolerate it, so they have to switch them to something else. Tamoxifen is a drug that suppresses estrogen, and it can be used for both pre and post menopausal women. Aromatase inhibitors can only be used in post menopausal women, so if you haven't gone thru "the change" yet, your options for switching Rx's may be limited, but it's worth asking.
Are you St IV? I didn't see anything about your actual Dx listed below your post. I've heard about turmeric also. I've been told that I can only take it during my "off cycle" weeks. I have to run all herbal and alternative med supplements by my onc b4 I take them. I usually take my supplemental vitamins (D3 and B6) with lunch or a snack, NOT at the same time I take Xeloda so I won't get any interference in the liver pathways.
If you are NOT St IV, it may be worth consulting your drs and getting permission to forego Tamoxifen so you can at least find some symptom relief by continuing to take medical cannabis. It depends on how dominant the ER+ factor of your cancer is. [I'm obviously not an oncologist, so I can't advise you too much ;o)]
Treating St IV on the other hand is a balancing act: You want to knock it back or at least keep it from spreading, but you don't want to feel like shiz the entire time. We St IV ladies work with our MOs to find the right balance. We certainly don't want to drop dead in the next few months, so we put up with some of the inconvenient and uncomfortable SEs of AIs, etc., but we still want to have some quality of life and be able to get out and do things. That being said, we make our decisions regarding Rx's accordingly. No dr can force you to take anything. As a matter of fact, my MO said to me at the beginning of my Tx, "You're going to be the one who decides how long you want to keep this up. At some point your body will say, 'I've had enough...it's time to throw in the towel,' and then we'll just work on palliative care." [paraphrasing]
I hope you can find a happy medium here.
Lita
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Hi Lita 57,
I think the switch to AIs is a good idea and I am going to ask my oncologist. I am post-menopausal, and may choose AIs if they don't also interfere with my herbs and supplements.
However, my onc said that Tamoxofen is more easily tolerated and that is why she started with it.
No, I was diagnosed with Stage IIIA. I am one year out from surgery, 7 months from chemo, 4 months from radiation.
Besides the insomnia, my worst side effect is neuropathy.
gardengypsy
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Good luck with the AIs.
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Tamox might be more easily tolerated (not universally, however—some have SEs on it that rival or exceed those of AIs); but they carry a greater risk of endometrial cancer (or retroperitoneal cancer for those without a uterus), cataracts, and—most ominous—blood clots. For those of us who are postmenopausal, that can mean a heart attack or stroke if we already have preexisting cardiovascular problems. AIs have been shown to be superior to tamox for reducing risk of recurrence in postmenopausal women, and have fewer Rx contraindications and interactions. Valerian, however, should be avoided by ER+ women because it has estrogenic effects (as do St. John’s Wort and ginkgo biloba). And my MO says that marijuana might also act as a phytoestrogen—might promote recurrence even as it relieves symptoms.
The sad fact is that we all reach a point in our lives where fixing one part of your body breaks another. Treating one disorder can aggravate or even cause another. (e.g., AIs and PPIs can weaken bones, oral bone drugs aggravate GERD and even erode the esophagus, infused bone drugs can even break your hip, anti-rejection drugs and chemo can cause dangerous infections, antibiotics cancel out anti-rejection drugs, anti-diabetic drugs raise LDL-C and statins raise blood sugar, yada yada…). We can no longer treat a disorder to the point where we’re “all better” and pick up where we left off before. We have to pick our fights and prioritize what we can and cannot live with. Sucks.
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ChiSandy~Thanks for the reality check. Not sure where I am headed with this.
I feel like I have to change every single thing about my life..
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Hello folks! First time on this site and still new to this whole breast cancer thing.
Lita I love the "arranged marriage" analogy! That is what it feels like for sure!
I am interested in the whole medical marijuana and cancer thing too.
My history is this: 9/22/2016, DCIS & IDC, Left, 1cm, Grade 1, 5/9 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2-
10/6 mammogram results negative
10/23 MRI results negative
10/28 sentinel node biopsy 2/3 positive
11/16 bilateral mastectomy 3/6 nodes positive
Pathology says stage 1 still but 5/9 lymph nodes tested positive. Idk
Anyhow. I live in Maine and have a medical card. I don't however have access to a dispensary or a caregiver. But I'm trying to learn more about CBDs and their effects on cancer cells. I don't like feeling stoned. So THC is not something I care about but I do know you need some THC. I have already figured out that I can't use indica strains as they raise my anxiety and intensity all of my aches and just make me feel miserable. So I need a setiva strain that is high in cbd's and low in thc. Any suggestions
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Heidi, welcome...sorry you have to be here under the circumstances. I can't handle the sativa strains because they make me more anxious. I guess everyone is different. I took a class and they said indica strains make you less anxious. CBDs aren't psychoactive, so you're not supposed to feel high.
THC can stimulate your estrogen receptors so it's best to stay away from too much of it. The consultant who led the class said THCa doesn't stimulate your receptors as much as straight THC.
I use a tincture that has a higher ratio of CBD to THC. Can you find a dispensary that can mail stuff to You? Some in CA will do that, depending on the county.
Hope this helps.
Lita
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unfortunately here in Maine it's difficult to find people who are educated in Cannibis that are willing to educate you unless you are going to buy their products. Nor can you get anything shipped to you. I can't even get in the door of the local Cannibis dispensery because I still have on out of state ID as I just moved home even though I have a Maine medical marijuana card.
I can't smoke the marijuana. It kills my lungs. Ultimately what I need is someone to help me find the right strain that helps kill the cancer cells and eventually the right strains that will help with side effects from chemotherapy like nausea, anxiety, sleep issues, etc. and make that into edibles, candy or capsule form.
In other words I'm a pain in the backside. lol. I don't want to smoke it or taste it.
My medical doctor that gave me my card did say I want high cbd and low THC but there needs to be some THC content.
I appreciate the answer and insight you or anyone can give as I really want to have Cannibis in my treatment plan
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Lota and Heidi~ The pharmacist at Dana Farber has told me the same thing about cannabis and being ER+.
Unfortunately, I am using an Indica strain that is high in THC, for help with sleep and anxiety.
The other herb I take for sleep, Valerian, is also a no-no because it interferes with Tamoxifen.
Back to square one.
So frustrated.
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Heidi and Gypsy...definitely frustrating! Hopefully in the next few years we'll have more researchers willing to look into cannabis now that it's becoming legal in more and more states. i worry about dosage and timing, etc.
Incidentally, I try not to take my tinctures and edibles every day. On my "off cycle" weeks, I don't have to take it as often. The onc cannabis consultant said that if you don't take LARGE amounts of it (more than 40 mgs), it shouldn't interfere too much with other meds you're taking. In my case, I take 10 mgs of either tincture or edible about 2 hrs after I take my Xeloda/capecitabine pills. Your liver has pathways, and you don't want to take certain things simultaneously because they will compete for the same pathway and not get processed as effectively.
Some of my edibles are higher in THC, but it does help w/nausea and insomnia. As always, it's best to do your research. I wish there were more knowledgeable people out there. I'm only a novice when it comes to all this since I was just diagnosed in April.
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