Medical Marijuana
Comments
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Gypsy, have you tried a higher dose of melatonin (10mg) for sleep? Works well for me.
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Thanks, Lita. When I asked the NP what to do about the anxiety and insomnia, she said that taking Benedryl was effective! I was aghast. I have had enough of that stuff for a lifetime - it was included in my chemo cocktail. The stuff is really, really bad for you, and it is linked to dementia.
I have been vaping a few hits at night. I will now look for a type this is higher in CDBs, rather than THC. However, the DF pharmacist said no cannabis with Tamoxifen at all. While my onc supported the uses of cannabis during chemo, I believe they don't know much about this side of it. Unfortunately, the metabolism pathways make sense to me.
I wonder if it's the same for the AIs? If not, would it be worth switching over? Since I am po
st-menopausal, I am going to ask my onc.~gardengypsy
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ChiSandy~
As recommended by my onc naturopath,I am doing 20 mg. It is super helpful.
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Basically, I'm going to do what helps me. You have to strike a balance between fighting Mr Cancer back and trying to have a halfway decent quality of life...especially if you're stage IV.
E.G. This Thanksgiving I decided to have a glass of wine with dinner each night. I haven't had a glass of wine in over 7 months. I figure sheesh, I'm gonna die anyway, one glass with dinner on my OFF CYCLE week isn't going to stimulate my ER+ receptors that much. At least I'm not eating pints of ice cream and bags of cookies. Tomorrow it's back to business as usual with my chemo again.
Oh, Benadryl NEVER helped me with sleep or anxiety.
Lita
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Oh dear...what I'm reading here is that if one is ER+ (and I was, highly) that we should NOT use MM for sleep? I take a half-serving of MM in chocolate form every night for sleep, and it works GREAT--finally sleeping all night long, first time in years. I've always had problems staying asleep, so my MM works great in that regard. With it I take 12 mg of melatonin and some magnesium, the perfect combo for sleeping all night long, which is heavenly. I don't think I've slept all night without help in years and years. I used a 1/4 rx of Xanax but my doc says it's habit-forming (like what isn't after time) and always gives me a hard time when I refill the rx--even though I never abuse it and usually my 3 month supply lasts 5 or more months....
Am I not supposed to use MM for sleep? It works so great for me! Isn't lack of sleep or interrupted sleep bad for us who are fighting c, too?
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I have read conflicting reports about the estrogenic effects of high THC strains. More research needs to be done but where does that leave us in the meantime. Sigh.
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I have yet to see anyone other than my surgeon. I do have an appointment on Wednesday to see an oncologist. Not the one I will be seeing though. I'm confused by this one. But anyways. I'll be asking her about the medical marijuana and supplements and all that stuff. I'll let you know what I am told
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Claire Once again, I wish we had medical marijuana experts to HELP us navigate all this!!! The person I went to said that as long as you're not taking more than 10 mgs a day, you should be fine.
If you're taking half a MM square, that should be about 10 mgs, depending on the total mgs in the bar. I use the dark chocolate Bhang bars that are a total of 120 mgs...each bar has four squares, which are 30 mgs each, and I break each of the squares into THIRDS, so that's 10 mgs each third. I don't like the flavored bars (caramel or toffee, etc.) because the flavor of the pot still comes thru, whereas dark chocolate masks the taste pretty well.
Here's the link to Bhang below:
http://gotbhang.com/bhang-cannabis-edibles/
We HAVE to get our sleep (especially if you have to go to work!). They say you shouldn't take Tamoxifen w/ MM, but if you take the Tamoxifen or other AI in the morning and do your MM at night, they shouldn't clash with each other as much. Also, try to find a bar with MORE CBDs as opposed to THC because THC stimulates estrogen way more than CBD does.
Lita
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So, let me get this straight. The medical doctors say that the THC increase the estrogen production of our bodies
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Lita I went to that link and unfortunately for me nobody in New England carries their products
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Heidi, yes it does, unfortunately.
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Lita57, that is the EXACT edible I use, and almost the same dosage. Right now I've got the dark chocolate fire flavor. Another great brand are Boulder Bars--they are made by Edibles, and you can get them in half CBD and half THC. I am not sure if I can find something similar in my Az. town, but I'll try, I've used the Boulder bars when I was in Colorado, where they are made. They don't carry them here in AZ, sadly.
I think getting good sleep is as good for our immune system and for fighting off disease as a bit of circulating estrogen might drive any baddie c that might be lurking. I take my AI faithfully every morning and do a bunch of other things to try to keep recurrence at bay. Impossible to know if any of it is working, which is maddening.
I'm following this thread to see if any more info comes up re: MM and driving estrogen levels up. Thanks all.
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I think the pharmacists at cancer centers are good sources of information.
The kind I am vaping is named "On the Couch." Lol. Specifically for sleep. It works so well. Sigh.
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Thanks for sharing all the useful information, ladies. The entire time I was on Tamoxifen, I don't think I ever got a full, restful night's sleep. Got off of it a few months ago after doing in-depth research (switched to DIM+I3C supplements to mitigate any estrogen dominance -- wow), and definitely started to feel much more "balanced". However, I still need some help in the sleep department. MM is new to me, but now that I'm off Tamoxifen maybe I can fit it in my overall health plan. I think quality sleep is the most underrated free medicine we can grant our amazing bodies. Yes, Lita, I certainly wish there was a trusted, bona-fide MM expert we could consult with. If you gals run into a seemingly trustworthy one, please share, I'm willing to look into it!
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So I've been using indica-strong THC in edibles to help me sleep at night since fall of last year. I've been using a small amount--about half the amount suggested when I buy the brownies, blondies, and chocolate bars at my MM store. It worked great--till the past few days ago. Same amount, taken same time of day, but I'm waking up about 3 hours afterward and have to work to get back to sleep, and I'm waking up again earlier than I'd like. I've changed nothing in my routine (same amount of exercise, diet, sleep hygiene etc).
Does THC stop working after a while? If I have to continue to take more I'll have to abandon this particular method of getting to sleep and staying asleep--and I REALLY don't want to do that. But if THC drives estrogen, I'll have to quit for my own peace of mind (but not sleep).
Help. I'm so frustrated and about ready to go to my NP and ask her to write me an low dose rx for trazadone, which I've used with mixed results in the past for sleep.
I just found out that using OTC sleep meds that have diphenhydramine in them are linked to dementia. Is there anything we can take that doesn't cause some kind of health problem? Sheesh. I just want to sleep at night.
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Well I think I may be able to help in this department.
Using cannabis to sleep is giving your body more benefits then you would expect.
The first is sleep. After putting your body through chemo/radiation/surgery its hard. Everything is out of its cycle and sleep is one of the first things to get tossed to the way side. As your body is trying to recover its all out of balance, it got used to a flood of drugs and abuse from the hash chemicals that has took their toll.
Your body heals best while sleeping and cannabis helps relax you enough to let that happen. Make sure you are only using INDICA as a sativa will have undesirable effects like being up until dawn.
The next is healing properties. Cannabis has incredible healing properties. In my experience my patients have been told to continue treatment with cannabis while going through chemo treatment by their physicians.
The next thing for you is what to get. If this is a thing that only happens occasionally then medicated edibles would be best. There are lots of choices out there from hard candies all the way to pizza sauce.
If this is a problem that is nightly I suggest oil. RSO works the best with cancer treatment hands down. It's a concentrate that increases the cannabis greatly, making a small amount very potent. The patient starts out with an amount the size of a grain of rice.
The market is flooded with people that say they have the best but I have found over my years the very best you can find will come from small organic grow ops. That come with some good testimonials.
Ask questions, there's still not a lot of testing in the field yet. Make sure you can get test results on anything they sell.
Flowers (aka buds) can have mould/pests etc..
Oils can be diluted and non filtered
Wax's (for vaping) can have residue of gas in them
Candies/mediables can be stronger or weaker than described.
If I did not answer your questions please feel free to contact me and I'll try and answer them. By no means am I an expert but I have made this my life for past 25 years.
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127chef and Claire~
I, too, feel that sleep contributes more than anything to my health and wellbeing. I am also blessed to have a family friend that owns a lab and pharmacy! Along with Melatonin, it works very well for me.
But why shouldn't those of us with estrogen+ Breast Cancer be concerned?
I welcome your thoughts, 127.
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I've been using edibles to aid sleep for 20 odd years. For me; the effect has not diminished over time.
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Dear 127,
I agree with all you've said. I've had wakefulness at night for over 20 years, since my late husband died of cancer. I can fall asleep but don't stay asleep and am awake for 2 hours appx. nearly every night, except those odd times when I've hiked ten miles, or done something really strenuous. When I began to get a full night's sleep with edibles, I nearly cried with joy the first time I went to bed at night and woke up with the sun shining. I exercise nearly every day, cardio, don't eat late at night, watch screen time, watch bright lights when I need to begin to get sleepy, etc. I'm doing everything right, I know that, to get sleep.
Thanks for the tips; I have done my due diligence research, and know what to buy, and am working with my NP. I only buy indica because that's all I need it for--but the budtenders in my town don't seem to really have a handle on what they are selling, for sure. E.g. when I tell them I want an edible with only indica in it, they kind of look around and have to ask someone else that works there. Doesn't exactly instill confidence in what they are selling me, and edibles are expensive.
The edibles were working GREAT with one tab of a non-pain reliever sleep aid and melatonin. Then I read about the sleep aids (previous posting), sheesh.
Dear all,
How much melatonin does everyone take, appx? Just wondering.
Anyway, my NP is working on the whole "ER+ how much is too much" question. There seems to be a lack of knowledge generally, but she thinks there is someone in the Phx area that can help us.
One last thing: I've not had hot flashes at night for at least a year. Now I'm having them again (further disturbing my sleep), and I wonder--should I suspect THC?
Argh.
Claire
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Claire~ I am taking 20 mg Melatonin nightly. This was upon the advice of a naturopath who specializes in Breast Cancer.
Also, I run my meds,herbs and supps by a Dana Farber pharmacist. He does not have a problem with the Melatonin and Estrogen+cancer.
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Everyone, my oncology nurse who specializes in MM says 10 mgs of indica cannabis should help with sleep.
(Edited for spelling.)
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I tried melatonin and it leaves me so tired the next day. Not pleasant at all.
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Hi gardengypsy, I am not taking that much--maybe 12 mg. I will try it tonight and then post again. I will do anything to sleep well.
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try tart cherry juice, you can use it in concentrate with water or whatever. it contains natural melatonin
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GardenGypsy, I would ask that pharmacist at Dana to show you the study/studies that supports his claim. I honestly don't think a lot of research has been done on the specific interactions with MMJ and Tamoxifen (or any other drug, for that matter). I could be wrong, but it's just my hunch that the lack of conclusive information currently available causes mainstream medical professionals to err on the side of extreme (if perhaps even unnecessary) caution.
Quality of life and the ability to sleep benefits might override any risk of elevated estrogen levels that MJ might cause.
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I am hearing you, Gwmini
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Yes, Gemini. I agree. When I get back home, I will check the literature he gave me. I think there is some analysis.
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good luck, Claore
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Good luck, Claire. This has been the toughest of my SEs, for sure.
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Dear all, 15 mg. of melatonin, 30 drops of valerian, magnesium, 1 aspirin (the mag and aspirin I've been taking for years) and a few mg. of mm edible last night and I slept for 7 hours straight. Halleluiah. No hot flashes, no wakeful active brain at 3 a.m.
I hope I found the combo that lets me sleep every night. As long as I get about 6 hours straight I'm good to go.
Claire
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