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Medical Marijuana

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  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 320
    edited January 2017
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    that's wonderful news, Claire. Keep us posted on your progress. Sleep is very, very important

  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 499
    edited January 2017
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    Claire. This combo had worked for me.

    Hate to tell you this, but the Valerian interferes with Tamoxifen...

    I really do not care anymore.

  • Lita57
    Lita57 Member Posts: 2,338
    edited January 2017
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    Everyone, we have to be careful with a lot of herbal supplements as they interfere with a lot of pharmaceuticals unfortunately.


  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    I don't take Tamoxifen (see status info below). I also heard a nasty rumor that valerian can be hard on your liver but the National Institute of Health disproved that, I found an article.

    I figure that sleep allows my body to process all the meds I'm taking to keep away bc.


  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 499
    edited January 2017
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    Claire~ Oops. Mixed up my threads.

    Does anyone know if it is safer to take MM with AIs than with Tamoxifen?

  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    Cannibis ladies, I just received this email message from my ND, who has been checking on the estrogen dominant/THC topic for me. Here is what she wrote, and I'm going to get the tests that she offered at the end of the message if I can find out if insurance will pay for them. I don't know if I'm convinced completely, but I feel a little better than before. I'm still not eating soy for now, but as a mostly vegan I wish I could.

    Here is what she sent: "I spoke at length with a very well-respected ND oncologist yesterday, yay! His take on the THC issue was that plant estrogens, such as soy, have been shown to actually improve outcomes in patients with hormone-positive breast cancer. Also, we all probably eat more plant estrogens in a day than you get in the small amount of cannabis that you take at night. So, he didn't have a dose for the THC but when we talked about the science of plant estrogens, I certainly felt better about cannabis in your case. He suggested that we also might want to check estrone, estradiol, estriol, and total estrogens to look at those levels if we were worried about the cannabis driving up the estrogen. If you want to pursue those tests, let me know!".

  • dtad
    dtad Member Posts: 771
    edited January 2017
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    This is what I love about NDs in respect to our hormone levels. They are so knowledgeable on them. Wish I could say that about most MOs. I completely agree that there are 3 different types of estrogen and the levels are very important. They should be checked before during and after anti hormone treatment and adjusted accordingly. The way conventional MOs just prescribe it blindly and never check to see if our levels are moving in the right direction is truly mind boggling IMO. Also if our levels were checked regularly we wouldn't have to guess how certain foods and/or supplements affect them. Seems like a no brainer to me....

  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 499
    edited January 2017
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    Thanks for this, Claire and dtad~

    I am heading straight to the ND who specializes in onc in our area. It takes quite a while to get an appointment with her, but she has a great reputation and works closely with pharmacists at the nearby university hospital. I am feeling positive about this.

    I remain so confused as to why they don't check levels. I think my onc said something like, "it does not have an effect on success in overall studies."

  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    And aside from MM, I think I'm going to ea a bit more organic soy, too, which I've been avoiding like the plague for over 5 years now. I just did further research, and both MD Anderson and Mayo have found no correlation between eating some soy products and increased bc recurrence rates. Much of the research finds no increase and some research indicates lowered rates of recurrence. As a mostly-vegan, I find it hard sometimes to find options for meal-making that don't include some soy or soy lethicin.

    There's a product called soy rizo (chorizo) that even my husband eats with scrambled eggs. Whole Foods, here I come :)

  • Lita57
    Lita57 Member Posts: 2,338
    edited January 2017
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    My MO is Chinese and I asked her about soy since I'm stage 4. She said I could eat it once in a while, just not every day. Asian women have a much lower incidence of BC. Geez, soy is hidden in a lot of things. My dh's coenzyme q10 supplements have soy in them too.


  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 499
    edited January 2017
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    For Estrogen+ cancer, I've read that it's the more concentrated forms you want to avoid, such as soymilk.

    Also, I would not eat any soy from China and we get a suprising amount of soy products from there.

  • Lita57
    Lita57 Member Posts: 2,338
    edited January 2017
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    I agree with that, garden. ANYTHING from China is suspect. They don't have any quality control and don't care about pesticides.


  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    My plan is certified GMO-free, organic soy from time to time. Gardengypsy, what other foods are considered "concentrated" soy? Sorry I've kind of hi-jacked the MM thread with these soy questions!

    Claire in AZ

  • gemini4
    gemini4 Member Posts: 320
    edited January 2017
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    Claire, I've read time and again that the biggest thing to avoid is processed soy, such as soy protein isolate. I've read that fermented soy is beneficial (e.g., miso, tempeh, fermented soy sauce and fermented, non-GMO organic tofu). Also non-GMO organic edamame.

  • BlueGirlRedState
    BlueGirlRedState Member Posts: 900
    edited January 2017
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    Anyone out there using MM for sleep/relaxation or oils to help with scarring or maybe even recurrence/prevention. Any products that seemed to help? I have to travel 6+ hrs or more to acquire anything, Issue with sleep is waking up at 1, 2, or 3 in the morning, sometimes I do not go back to sleep. I usually fall asleep fairly easily. I've tried "Zoots drops" (5mg THC/1/2 tsp) and "Caps" (10 mg THC plus 2 mg melatonin), neither helps much. Also tried 10 mg melatonin with/without either, and did not get the baby sleep I wanted. I've heard that MM oils may help with scarring from surgery. Any suggestions? Making my own is not really an option

  • Nan812
    Nan812 Member Posts: 224
    edited January 2017
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    hello A_Guy,

    I'm new to this site and late finding your post. How is your GF? Did you ever start on any MM? It didn't seem like you were wondering about sleep issues.

    I starting using MM in edible form (rso indica) to combat my cancer, not just to relieve symptoms. I ate whatever form I could get at the time.

    My doctors are amazed that it has been over a year since I've had to have chemo and the 2 times I went off ( MM ) was when 2 spots that needed radiation appeared. That may be a coincidence but since I've almost doubled my life expectancy so far, I'm staying on it.

    Best of luck to all :)

    Nan

  • lulubee
    lulubee Member Posts: 903
    edited January 2017
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    For those of us in non-legal states where access to MMJ is completely off the table, is there any possible benefit from using a hemp cannabinoid product such as Elixinol?

    I see some negative opinions in online comments ("hemp oil is useless for breast cancer" and such), but I have yet to find anything to validate opinions, either way. It is also unclear whether these commenters are referring to ordinary grocery store hemp oil, or to hemp cannabinoid products such as Elixinol.

    I am specifically interested to know 1) if there is any perceived benefit from hemp cannabinoid products for stabilizing BC, and 2) if there is any palliative benefit.

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 4,969
    edited January 2017
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    nana812,

    I believe A guy's girlfriend passed away in June.

    There may be others here who have a good mm regime and they will, hopefully, chime in soon.

    I have recently become a mm user. I am using topicals for arthritis/Femara induced bone and joint pain and sublingual spray at bedtime. They also gave me a very large cookie as a new patient gift. That's just for fun😜. I will say it was a very strange experience to buy this stuff legally in a bright, open clean place run by very knowledgeable folks. It seemed so...normal. Thank goodness for legal mm in my state

  • Nan812
    Nan812 Member Posts: 224
    edited January 2017
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    HI exbrn,

    I am now on a more regimented schedule with my MM. At the beginning I just felt that I needed it in my system asap.(my message to A_Guy). I have been enjoying herb for a variety of things before my tripl3 neg BC showed up(+ all the Mets) so I was already what I thought was pretty well informed. Boy did I have a lot more to learn, and I'm still learning.

    For my situation I've found smoking absolutely no use. Had been doing that for 35yrs so I shouldn't have gotten it in the first place if smoking did the trick although I believe it slowed it,since my mom (same type + progression) had already fought and passed by age 48 and I was 50 @ DX.

    I believe the ingestion of this med is part of helping my body fight my cancer. I currently use 1 part cbd to 2 parts thc. The thc needs to be from an indica strain so you don't get anxiety or tweeky(sativa can do that). Cbd is amazing at relieving pain and there is no high involved in that although our federal gov just put it in the same drug class as heroin and meth( means no medicinal value) so now you need to live in a state where MM is legal to get it.

    I'm one of those patients that doesn't look or act sick (except chemo time yuck). Not sure if it's the MM. Although this may seem a good thing, DH keeps forgetting (coping?) how sick I really am and say kinda snarky "what did you do all day?" (Just tired from radiation gonna Netflix today) On the other side I never ever thought I could bring down a room but when a dying person walks in,people get all down and sad and all I wanna do is run out but if you do look good, they think you're exaggerating or just making it up. Does any one else ever feel like that?

    Sorry this went so long, I've never said that last part to anyone. I feel bad about thinking that about people who say they love me and I know (or at least hope) they love me. It's just a vibe you can feel you know. Like when you first tell people that you're stage 4 cancer and you really need their shoulder to cry on but they always break down and you have to be strong for THEM and give them your shoulder cuz they can't hold it together. I know they care but that becomes such a selfish act(it's all about them cuz their friend is dying) to the person who is actually hurting,sick,and facing death...mourn me after I'm gone please(along time from now):)

    Thanks for allowing this vent, the only place I think people will understand it.

    Nan

  • Lita57
    Lita57 Member Posts: 2,338
    edited January 2017
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    Nan, I get exactly what you're saying. Unless you roll in with your walker or sport a bald head, they totally think you're exaggerating. Most people with cancer (unless you're in the hospital) don't look all that bad until they're a few weeks/months away from death. They have no idea what we have to put up with just to drag ourselves out of bed each day.


  • Nan812
    Nan812 Member Posts: 224
    edited January 2017
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    Lita,

    You're the best!! Thanks for responding!

    Someone one here has a signature that reads something like " if God never gives us more than we can handle... He must think I'm a bad ass!!" That's us!! Btw I like all your posts

    Keep shining bright,

    Nan

  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    Hi all....again. :)

    Question: can one become immune to the effects of MM? I'm asking because I've used it (indica edibles) for sleep since July. The past couple of weeks the edible amount I've been using, which has worked great, along with my valerian drops, seems to have stopped working.

    By that I mean I eat my typical dosage about an hour before I want to sleep. What is happening is that instead of dropping off and sleeping deeply, I'm instead dozing, then waking up, then dozing, then waking up, for about an hour after I crawl in bed.I'm also waking up at 3 a.m. awake, which hadn't happened. My sleep problems for years have been wakefulness just like this. I fall asleep just fine but can't stay asleep. Until now indica was working great for that problem.

    Sometimes as well I'll wake up and I feel a bit anxious, which shouldn't happen with indica. I'm careful to stick to indica so no chance that I would mix up edibles with something like sativa (which I don't even buy).

    Since MM is expensive, I'm concerned that in order to use it the way I have been, I'll have to take higher and higher amounts to get the same effect. Costly, and apparently potentially dangerous for ER+ like me--I want to use the least amount necessary to sleep.

    Note: I didn't find the FB page that has been recommended in previous posts very helpful. It seems that site is more geared towards using TCH oil to treat tumor growth, etc.

    I don't smoke pot and I've always disliked the high, so I'm not a pot -user (wine and beer was more my speed). So I'm a newbie, really, at using MM or any kind of THC at all.

    Any thoughts? Thanks all.

    Claire


  • Lita57
    Lita57 Member Posts: 2,338
    edited January 2017
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    Nan, you're welcome! And yes, we are totally bad ass.

    Claire, yes indeed...we CAN become immune to MM just like anything else unfortunately. The body learns how to adapt to everything, from alcohol to pain meds to herbals. The MM oncology nurse warned me about this when I took her class. That's why I take a break from MM to reset the clock from time to time. Do you work? If I miss some sleep a couple times a week, I don't sweat it, cuz Mr. Cancer has disabled me to the degree that my back won't allow me to work anymore. I can sleep in or nap as needed, but if you do work, I feel for you. There are sleep hygiene sites on the Internet that may temporarily offer some suggestions.

    Lita

  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 499
    edited January 2017
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    Claire, In the addiction world, we call that "tolerance"

    The reset idea is a good one. I had to do that once for Melatonin. It worked to go off it for a while....

    The problem is, when to do it?? During a vacation, maybe?

  • Nan812
    Nan812 Member Posts: 224
    edited January 2017
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    claire,

    You're the one with the bad ass quote...Thank you!!

    I've been noticing that more and more of the indica I find is a hybrid, they're cross breading with sativa to up the thc I think. They assure me that it's not enough to be noticeable but if you are sensitive I believe you can tell. I notice in some edibles that I'm not "one with my couch" like I should be so I have to take it earlier in the day or I can't sleep.

    I have the best luck with pure rick Simpson oil as my dispensary has theirs lab tested and its labeled with the percentage of thc,cbd,cbn,cbc,cbg, and thcv. It also lists the strain of MM that they make it with so if you've smoked that you will know just how you will feel. I have taken 2 breaks and both times I've had new tumor growth.

    Claire, I know you need it for sleep, I do too + many other symptoms as you can probably tell from my signature but I think your first step is to make sure they are not giving you an indica heavy hybrid. The small part of sativa in the breed will get your creativity flowing and if it kicks in 2 hours later ,like all edibles can, it makes sense that your waking, then the indica is putting you out again. Sometimes on a bad night I'll just take a half dose at 4:00am if I'm still up. I hope you find a formula that works.

    Keep shining bright,

    Nan

  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    Wow ladies, thank you! I did see something about "resetting" your MM. When I was younger, ahem, I smoked pot a few times and hated it--had a bad reaction to it several times, and never went back to it. I even hate the smell and taste, so my dedication to this drug to get some healing sleep is remarkable. But it works.

    I certainly could take a break and use something else to help me sleep. How long is typically recommended? Days/weeks?

    And I agree about the budtenders and their info. When I go to the weedstore and ask for edibles high in indica, it seems often they don't really know what % is in their edibles. I get that feeling a lot when I go to my store. Unfortunately they are all about the same here in No. Az. I had one guy even sell me $16 worth of gummies, and say they were for sleep. They were sativa (bought when I was a newbie MM person) and now I've got $16 of MM that I don't really use.

  • Lita57
    Lita57 Member Posts: 2,338
    edited January 2017
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    A few days isn't really enough to reset your system. A couple of weeks minimum is best. You can take another sleep aid in that time if you need to, and your body shouldn't get addicted to it in 14 days.

    When I've had to take Ativan or Valium, the Dr only gave me a 10-14 day supply.

    Hope this helps.


  • claireinaz
    claireinaz Member Posts: 682
    edited January 2017
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    Thanks for the reset info. Right now I'm disappointed that after only a few months of use, mm doesn't seem to be helping me sleep as effectively as it did before. I feel like $150 down the drain (amount I paid for my card), plus the $ spent to have my NO write up the certification/application for the card.

    I am sick of years of not sleeping. The more I worry the worse it gets as you can imagine. I don't know what else to do except talk to my NP about getting some trazadone again, which I've used in the past for sleep.

    Claire

  • gardengypsy
    gardengypsy Member Posts: 499
    edited January 2017
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    Claire-

    The years of not sleeping have been my issue, as well. Right now at bedtime I have a strong brew of Valerian tea, 20 mg of Melatonin, Gabapentin, MM, and occasional Ibuprofen ( to help with the neuropathy).I began using an eye mask and that is helpful.

    When I get into real trouble with sleep, I take a very small amount of Klonopin for just 2 nights and that works to reset me. I would never dare to take more; that stuff is way too seductive.

    I come from an entirely olistic and naturopathic background, and so this is all very discouraging for me. My onc therapist gave me a lecture on "sleep hygiene"recently and I almost strangled her.

    Next, I need to buy a white noise machine!

  • Nan812
    Nan812 Member Posts: 224
    edited January 2017
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    Does any one know why we're having such huge sleep issues? I've always been a nite owl but since the DX I swear I'm up all nite. Just got the talk from the family...I wish I knew