Diet and Lifestyle
Comments
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on a point of fact -
The preponderance of evidence is that colorectal cancer is not higher in veg*ns. There was one study in 2009 that showed a higher rate of colorectal cancer among UK vegetarians (not vegans) but even the authors were surprised by that finding.
Way more other studies show red meat is associated with colorectal cancer and this 2015 study of North American vegetarians showed lower rates of colorectal cancer https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedic...further confounding the issue is that vegetarians by definition may be consuming very large amounts of dairy products, or may just not be eating healthy at all. There is such a thing as junk food vegans
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That article about Funk they're objecting to is avail online. You just have to register for free (ie give an email) and you get access
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/meet-kristi-fun..."Funk says that up to 90 per cent of the risk factors for the disease lie in our control, "not your doctor's, genes or fate".
That still leaves 10% to genes and fate and that's where some of us fall. I am fit, exercise, teetotal, vegan now since more than 5 years, vegetarian since my late teens. Who knows, if I'd not modified the other risk factors maybe I would have got it earlier, more aggressive and not even be here now.
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I was a vegaterian for a good part of my life and still don't eat red meat.
I'm not sure how much red meat my great aunt ate. She had breast cancer twice, colon cancer twice, and died of pancreatic cancer. And she didn't drink.
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I don't know why this ends up being so hard. We know smoking causes cancer but not all people who smoke get cancer and not all lung cancer patients smoked. Most of these things are not 100% guarantees, they're just some level of probabilities. But it seems some people just want a black & white when the reality is a lot of grey...but sometimes the grey is dark and other times it's really faint, almost white...
But overall we know that many cancer deaths are due to preventable causes.More than 4/10 cancer cases & deaths linked to modifiable risk factors
https://www.cancer.org/latest-news/more-than-4-in-...smoking, secondhand smoke, excess body weight, alcohol, red & processed meat, low consumption of fruit, veg & fiber, lack of exercise, UV exposure or indoor tanning, infections such as helicobacter, hepatitis, herpes, papilloma, hiv...
And this isn't even touching on the things that are modifiable at a societal level: air pollution, herbicides, pesticides, chemical residues in water pipes, exposure to radiation etc
I don't think we can get rid of all cancer. Cancer is an evolutionary part of life. Mutations are how evolution happens. Sometimes mutations are beneficial, other times they're deadly.0 -
I asked my oncologist yesterday why he thinks older women get so much breast cancer. He said long term exposure to hormones and wear and tear. Things break down with time. He also said I don’t need to change my diet unless I simply want to be healthy and live to be 100. In other words, like many conventional practitioners, he doesn’t think diet matters much (though his response may be different if I wasn’t a normal weight). For a moment visions of potato chips flew through my mind, but didn’t last long.
I have seen enough research to believe that a good diet and exercise help prevent recurrence, although the % of reduction may be small, as it is for every treatment except surgery. But why would I take meds that reduce my risk by 3 or 4%, or have radiation for the same small benefit and not pay attention to a preventive lifestyle?
l know it is no guarantee. I was healthy before but still had bad cells. But if I can improve my odds a bit and still enjoy life, I will do it. I’m with Pi-XI and find it empowering.
The weird thing about smoking is that only 10% of smokers get lung cancer. They get other things, like COPD, but only a few get lung cancer. So the causes of cancer are not clear.
My family doctor died of lung cancer in her 50s. She ran marathons and never smoked a day in her life.
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I guess I have to come to terms with the possibility that I got "chancer", but I prefer to be able to blame myself or my environment. (That sounds crazy to me too. 😝)0
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https://health.clevelandclinic.org/the-best-diet-to-lower-your-colon-cancer-risk-2/
"They found vegans had a 16 percent lower risk for all colorectal cancers compared to non-vegetarians. Vegans do not eat any foods derived from animals, including dairy products such as cheese, milk and eggs."
Just one source, but I can post many more like it if needed, showing the relationship between a vegan lifestyle and a reduction in colon cancer occurrences.
WC3 since this is a diet/lifestyle thread and we're all here supporting healthy, positive lifestyle choices, I'm not sure you're going to find much agreement here with what you're saying. Maybe I could be seen as one of those crazy PETA people to you but I stand by my choices and believe that what I'm doing is making a positive impact on my life and the lives of others. You don't have to agree with me, but please don't put down certain lifestyle choices because you don't "agree" with them.
I like who I am right now. I choose to use this diagnosis as a time for reflection and change. Lately, I've felt better than before my diagnosis and it has everything to do with the lifestyle changes I've made.
Moth I agree, Why does this have to be sodifficult sometimes.
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I went kayaking 3 days this week and it has been so serene and beautiful, not to mention a workout!
I hope everyone has been having some nice weather!
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Warrior2018:
I think you have misunderstood me. I'm not putting down certain lifestyle choices. I am merely venting my frustration with those who blame me for my cancer for not following [b]their[/b] lifestyle choices....the people who like to say I got cancer for eating GMOs or for not being vegan or 100% organic or not eating enough yogurt from grass fed cows, or not being paleo or gluten free or not drinking my own pee (yep, found a guy who thought drinking pee was the holy grail to health). I'm sorry, I have a lot of health issues for someone my age that relate back to an autosomal genetic mutation and I have lived the healthiest lifestyle I could on my budget and that I knew how to. It's very disheartening to have put a lot of effort in to being healthy and to have the problems I have had....genetic disorder, skeletal abnormalities, etc and to then get cancer on top of it in my 30s that is worse than it needed to be because I was misdiagnosed 2 years ago when I found the lump. And to have to deal with someone finding a way to tell me I did something wrong or got cancer for not following their food ideology on top of it, when I ate healthier than most people, it's very tiring. I don't mind if someone is paleo or believes in drinking urine I just don't need to have them tell me I got cancer for not doing those things.
I'm also frustrated by the lack of real guidance by the medical community on what exactly those with active cancer and cancer survivors should eat and avoid and the alarmists and snake oil sales people who fill that void, like Belle Gibson who faked cancer to sell her book.
It would be nice if doctors gave as much advice to cancer patients about diet as they do to diabetics. Diabetics are often told by doctors to watch their sugar intake and keep their carbs low. I am ER positive but not a single doctor I consulted with said "Avoid dairy and garbonzo beans". I had to figure that out myself and who knows how accurate it is.
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I think I'm being misunderstood here so I'm just going to leave this thread.
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Thank you for clarifying WC. I’m so sorry to hear that you’ve dealt with so much. ❤️ I agree about the doctors needing to give more input about nutrition. It would be helpful to hear their recommendations and pros and cons.
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Hmm, I thought we were all in agreement and mostly arguing semantics. I have to remember that not everybody likes to argue...
I still doubt Dr. Funk's 90% claim. I'd like to see her science that backs that up. I'm of the opinion that something is going to kill you eventually, and if nothing else does it will be cancer. Which of course doesn't explain why I got it at 41, but neither does my diet or lifestyle.
I eat vegan and exercise because it makes me feel good, and I like feeling good. I can understand though why doctors don't give more advice on nutrition. There just isn't a lot of good science out there on diet. It's very difficult to separate out diet vs. exercise vs. stress vs. environment vs. everything else. I think these variables are why it's so easy to cure cancer in mice and so hard to cure it in humans. Factors tend to have interactions, and there isn't a great way to limit the factors in humans.
I can also see why people don't want to change their diets though. I mean, if you only get a 16% reduction in colon cancer by going vegan, well, that just doesn't seem like that much for what would be a very drastic change for a lot of people. According to the ACS, your risk of getting colon cancer is about 1 in 24, so about 4.2%. Going vegan drops this by 16% to 3.5%. So for every 142 people who go vegan, one less person will get colon cancer, if my math is correct. So you have a 1 in 142 chance of having any benefit of going vegan. I mean, people don't even take their tamoxifen for five years because it has too much effect on the QOL, and that has a much better than 1/142 chance of saving you from recurrence. Granted, you will probably see a reduction in a lot of other diseases as well by going vegan, but if its just colon cancer you're worried about it doesn't do a whole lot for you.
I think the evidence is much stronger for exercise though, and so is the benefit.
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Hapa, colon cancer was mentioned in a previous post, that is why I was stating some facts about it in comparison to a vegan diet. I’ve seen studies that list a higher percentage as well. As you mentioned, more scientific studies are needed.
Even if it is 16%, I’ll take it. That’s just aboutthe same percentage my MO used when discussing my risk of reoccurrence of BC. I’ll take any percentage of reduction in risk of any cancer.
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Warrior2018, hapa:
I think we are in agreement.
I was just venting. I've cut out some things I loved and don't know what to eat now when I can eat, and lost some weight which caused a complication.
I consulted with a dietician who specializes in cancer, who I thought was very good but it seems nearly impossible to really cut out everything that might benefit the cancer. Am I causing it to metastasis by eating something with canola oil or palm oil in it? How much does dairy really hurt? There are a lot of questions and not enough answers, in my opinion.
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I posted this somewhere, but it bears repeating. A high school friend recently told me is mother is still alive at 93. Back 50 yrs ago, she drank all day long, smoked all day long, and I rarely saw her eating. She never exercised. Sat watching tv in a smoke filled room. She also had 6 kids. I never saw her outside. How in the world is she still alive in apparently decent shape? It makes no sense.
I blame my diet. I blame inability to properly handle stress. Lack of sleep. Contact with toxic agents when I was an environmental activist. Daily contact with rubber footing when riding horses indoors. Contact with DDT when I was a kid on our farm. My sister is fine. She did not share these experiences. So there it is for me.0 -
I find the rebut article dispappointing. Especially coming from medical world and women which should be the leaders in this area.
The incidence of breast cancer in Japan is roughly 1 in 38 but is rising and approaches Western (1 in 8) when Japanese women move to the West.
The incidence in India is 1 in 22 but again approaches the Western 1 in 8 when these women adopt Western lifestyle practices.
The incidence in US and Australia is 1 in 8. I will not post a link - a simple Google search will give you those numbers.
So what do ALL women do? They sleep, eat, take care of families, work, maybe exercise. Unless you believe these women have a genomic transplant as part of getting US citizenship, the answer to the difference in incidence risk lies somewhere in there.
I am tired of all this Mambo Jumbo about association/causation - provided you have a plausible biological explanation and the temporal association holds ie stimulus first result later - association evidence with the above two attachments holds for causation.
Diet matters - a lot - not in all but definitely in enough people.
And in a world where most Metastatic BC treatments don't hit the 30% efficacy mark - I think it would be foolish at early stage not to engage in dialogue on lifestyle modification - diet is a central part of that.
Quality as well as the choice of your food products is central to diet modification.
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AMEN Wildplaces!!! Couldn’t agree more.
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Well it's almost 9am here and I am all for breakfast suggestions if anyone has any.
I have grade 3 active cancer in me and it's triple positive.
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This morning I ate half a green apple with a tablespoon of almond butter. I think smoothies are also a great idea for breakfast. I posted a link a few pages back that lists some healthy/good ones. It’s almost noon here so now I’m having a salad.
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Thanks for the suggestion Warrior2018. I will check out the link. :-)
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Warrior, how can you live on that for breakfast?
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Since I’ve started eating low carb/whole foods, I’m not very hungry anymore when I get up. I start off with an espresso and a glass of water then within that first hour or soI usually eat that and take my supplements. But then I eat again within 2-3 hours, then again, then again. I eat many smallish meals throughout the day. If I am having a hungry day then I’ll eat more. I don’t restrict calories.
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You’re welcome WC3!
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Hapa I have been thinking about mice and how it is easy to cure their cancer and why that is. One thing mice don't have is 50 years of exposure to unknown risk factors. I ate cheese sandwiches for lunch almost every day as a child. All that estrogen laden dairy can't be good for developing breasts.
I wonder what impact childhood diet or even in utero factors have on an individual's cancer risk.
Of course, lab mice are not as genetically diverse or complex as humans. Just speculating.
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That's interesting, Warrior! I try to use my breakfast to fuel my workouts on holidays. When I'm working, even with with breakfast (at 6:30) I'm ravenous by 10:30 am. After that I'm good until about 7:00 pm. I will have to consider my carbs and perhaps that will allow me to get in a longer fast on workdays.
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A lot of things can be cured in lab animals because we can experiment on them in ways in which society considers would be unethical for us to do so in humans. We learn a lot that is applicable to curing diseases in lab animals but these experiments typically collimate in the end of the lab animal's life. If you are a lab strain of rodent or fruit fly science can do amazing things in the blink of an eye. Humans...it takes about 15 to 30 years for the technology to be safely adapted and approved except in rare instances of very promising results and a lot of advocacy from amazing people, such was the case for Herceptin.
A lot of amazing things never leave the lab though due to lack of funding, not because they aren't great or lack promise but because there is a lot of competition for funding and some labs just aren't good at getting it.
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I have a 13 yr old cat that admittedly for the first 2 years barely stayed a live. Horrible digestive system. I have spent a fortune trying to find the right food. She ate dry cat food. The best money could buy and still kept puking and had very loose bowels. I was told over time she developed a reaction to any food. So switching dry foods was the way I kept her alive. What I did not know was that dry food no matter who makes it is bad for cats. Creates diabetes. Carbs is the problem. My Savannah cat that I loved so much died from 8 yrs of eating dry cat food. We switched both indoor cats to wet cat food about a year ago per my vet. I was giving insulin shots by then. Awful. Still, the damage to my Savannah cat could not be rolled back. Bowels with wet cat food is still bad. Puking still happening, just not as much. Inability to sleep for my cat is a problem. So one last try. Oh, btw I also make chick broth for her each week. She does not throw it up. However, bowels not good. So I purchased the refrigerated fresh chicken catfood from the grocery. She likes it. No puking. She can sleep. She has normal bowels.
I know....animals are not humans. I could give examples of food related problems with horses as well. I am talking live and death. Food matters. Apparently the medical community when it comes to cancer disagrees.
When I got the recommendation from my nurse navigator a few days ago for a new doctor for me, she did suggest nutrition would be the focus. First time any such suggestion.0 -
PiXi- sometimes eating can be a chore! I think it was moth that posted something about low/normal fasting blood glucose levels relating to lack of hunger right when you wake. Cant remember...
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I'm usually not that hungry upon waking. I eat out of habit and together time with DH.
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That sounds very nice that you get some together time with your DH in the morning. Some days get so hectic. I should try to work on that here. Even if we would just sit and share a coffee. Very good idea, thank you.
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