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Diet and Lifestyle

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Comments

  • wildplaces
    wildplaces Member Posts: 544
    edited July 2018

    warrior - thank you.

    I am certain that you can see my frustration. Although I live in Australia, about 10 years ago, I worked in Paris for two years in a large vascular unit - I made a lot of long time friends - it's funny Parisians are intrinsically private which may make them seem aloof, even arrogant but when they bond the ties hold. When I told them I had BC - the reaction of the head of Anaesthetics there, author of super book on Echocardiography was and I quote " fucking pesticides". His wife died of pancreatic cancer.

    Now I don't think it's pesticides alone - but I am certain how we produce our food has a lot to do with some of the current health epidemics - obesity, heart disease, cancer and I would not be surprised if dementia was in there as well. The bottom line is the modern way of putting food on the table gets to feed a much greater population, but by solving famine have we created other diseases??

    India has began to look at this because their health system is poor and solving famine but creating disease is a financial crunch for them.

    Doctors are neither biologists nor chemists - so unless those specialities unite in honest dialogue about the food industry there is too much variation for most epidemiological work to pick up trends. And neither the Food Industry or the Big Pharma for which the basic sciences work have the financial interest to bring this to the table.

    I applaud vegans and hope one day to be one. Still to be honest I don't think it is so much about not having a glass of decent milk or a sliver of home made butter or an egg from your backyard chook. For me it is about not eating things that have slogged, pushed and poisoned - I saw you very eloquent article on dairy and how those poor animals are exploited and driven on the other thread - well, the milk that is stocked on supermarket shelves is not milk anymore.

    So yes eat plant based, avoid certain foods and make other a staple but above all - and now I am going out on a limb - avoid your supermarkets - find a butcher and develop a relationship with him so you can ask about his products and keep in mind IF you choose to eat meat that the WHO protein recommendation is astonishingly low, go to your greengrocers or seek a trusted farmer in the area, make your own bread ( why i the batter for some of the fresh bread in our local supermarket made in Denmark - I mean heck??) and so on.

    Ok my rant is over...hugs to all

    😊🌷

  • wildplaces
    wildplaces Member Posts: 544
    edited July 2018

    moth and everyone who does vegan and do so wholehearted this my thought for youimage

    I hope to be there one day and I am grateful for your knowledge and support

  • 1redgirl
    1redgirl Member Posts: 94
    edited July 2018
    One more try.

    Hormonal therapy is either significantly reducing estrogen or blocking receptors. So basically the food source is being cut off in hopes of killing off cancer cells. So that begs the question if it is possible to do the same by significantly changing food choices, lifestyle instead of taking drugs with serious side effects? Nutritionists and functional doctors seem to think diet and lifestyle can reduce estrogen levels. Estrogen hides in fat. Too much estrogen gets recycled in the body instead of being eliminated. It is referred to as a leaky gut due to lack of fiber. One disappointing stat is that only about 10 percent of bc patients change their diet and lifestyle. I am not judging just stating what I have read. Feel free to disagree or critique my post.
  • 1redgirl
    1redgirl Member Posts: 94
    edited July 2018
    Wildplaces - it is always about money. Research is skewed because of who is paying. Big Pharma enjoys healthy margins. They can afford to pay employees well. The food industry salts everything only to require massive amounts of sugar to cover up salt. Look at cereals. People talk about eating well, but look inside their grocery cart. Heck, the cashiers at my grocery store never even recognize peppers or what a leek is. Anyway, liked your posts.
  • Warrior2018
    Warrior2018 Member Posts: 212
    edited July 2018

    I love that shirt Wildplaces! I like this one too:

    image

    I definitely agree with your frustrations. Thank you for the shout out to vegans Hug I admire anyone that is willing to accept what they can or can not control, and make the changes necessary to be their best selves. Peace and love and all that too lol ;)))


  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,858
    edited July 2018

    OK I have decided to do a weeklong vegan diet every month or two for starters, with the exception of milk in my coffee. I actually love soy milk but just not in coffee. I will start next week as I still have eggs, cheese and stuff in my fridge. I hope DH and DD will go along for the ride.

  • Warrior2018
    Warrior2018 Member Posts: 212
    edited July 2018

    Yay Heidi!!!!! There’s lots of great vegan creamers available now too that are made from coconut, almond, or cashew milk. I know what you mean about the taste though. It can take some getting used to. I just drink black coffee now. It’s amazing how tastes change over time! There’s lots of great recipe ideas over in the vegan thread too!


  • pi-xi
    pi-xi Member Posts: 177
    edited July 2018
    Do you make your own almond milk? Is the carrageenan in commercial almond milk really a problem?
  • Warrior2018
    Warrior2018 Member Posts: 212
    edited July 2018

    I haven’t attempted making my own yet. I don’t really use any milk unless a recipe calls for some. But here’s a list that might be helpful: https://healthyeater.com/almond-milk

    I like cashew milk best I think. Some of the oat milks are good too.

  • pi-xi
    pi-xi Member Posts: 177
    edited July 2018

    Thanks again, Warrior! I am interested in it for baking.

  • dearlife
    dearlife Member Posts: 634
    edited July 2018

    Moth and Warrior, we support you. Just slow to make the changes. Sometimes it means more cooking because DHs and family are even farther behind or reluctant.

    We are out on a boat for a month with one burner, a small fridge and a bbq so cooking multiple menus is a challenge!

    Heidi a vegan week every month of two is such a sensible approach. I will try it when we get home.

    Wildplaces, interesting perspective on famine prevention and disease causation. I think the food industry and marketing have created a modem plague.

    Redgirl I am surprised that only 10% of BC patients change their diet, given that 30% worry about recurrence. Food habits are a source of comfort and hard to break.

    This thread and the other food threads are great because they encourage conscious eating. Thanks to all for the stimulating discussion and practical tips.

  • Warrior2018
    Warrior2018 Member Posts: 212
    edited July 2018

    You’re welcome!


  • wildplaces
    wildplaces Member Posts: 544
    edited July 2018

    Thank you redgirl and warrior 😊

    Heidihill you make me smile. Santa Maria is on the 15th of August ( I have memories way back of fireworks over Vesuvius seen from Sorrento) so I will be doing a fast for two weeks - which is essentially ALL vegan. It's all about ones mindset - very doable and I feel good on it, always pull back a bit on weight too during that time.

    I liked Moth post when she said it is more than food it's a choice about how to live.

    Which loops me back to redgirl 10% - for me the biggest deterrent to change is perceived lack of time and not being focused enough on who/what matters to me, allowing too much noise in, and what is worse perceiving that I have so much on my plate ( figuratively 😉) that I have to respond to the noise. Thus the concept of being kind and simplifying, or just downright ignoring a lot of it, is very appealing to me.

    Mindfulness, walking outdoors, writing or painting helps with that - but it takes vigilance for one could easily have a tough start to a week and before you know it, the week unravels and it's end week and you feel -where did that go?? I guess we put this post under lifestyle.

    DearLife - a week on a boat outdoors - heaven to me! Enjoy!!

  • pi-xi
    pi-xi Member Posts: 177
    edited July 2018

    From the CMAJ review article "Lifestyle modifications for patients with breast cancer to improve prognosis and optimize overall health "

    CMAJ 2017 February 21;189:E268-74. doi: 10.1503/cmaj.160464

    "A population-based study in the United States involving 856 women found that only 13% of breast cancer survivors attained the recommended 150 minutes of exercise each week, and with increasing time after diagnosis, only about 10% complied with the recommendation. Patients who have undergone chemotherapy or radiation have significantly greater decreases in physical activity, by 50% and 24% respectively, compared with patients who have not experienced these therapies."

    Those percentages are pretty consistent with the diet change percentage and yet the proof for and impact of exercise is much higher! I think it tells us that modifying behaviour is hard for most people and that is easier just to worry. I do both.


  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 658
    edited July 2018

    I was in good shape when I started chemotherapy but I've had problems getting enough calories and protein and have had muscle breakdown and later in my cycle when I can eat more my body decides to not bother to digest anything.

  • pi-xi
    pi-xi Member Posts: 177
    edited July 2018

    I bought some dehydrated beet chips at Costco. Wow! So incredibly sweet! Definitely calls for moderation. I'm more toward the savoury, so it doesn't take too much willpower.

    Edited to add: Good source of fibre though!

    image

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 658
    edited July 2018

    Does anyone know of a good bread with no soy, no flaxseeds, no high fructose corn syrup, no honey, and no oil?

  • heidihill
    heidihill Member Posts: 1,858
    edited July 2018

    Have fun on the boat, DearLife! Pi-xi, yes, it's really a pity with the exercise. And with diet, I think if nothing else, eat enough fruit and veggies (at least 5 servings, more is better) should be the message for everyone. Wildplaces, weight loss is a good selling point for going vegan. 

    https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/fruit-vegetables-breast-cancer/

     WC3, with chemo I would try to get more protein in to prevent muscle loss. If that isn't working, you may need to ask your doctor for other strategies.

    I think diet and exercise should be a package. It should be about balancing energy needs in order to meet the demands of normal (growing) cells while trying to starve those of cancer cells. 

  • GoKale4320
    GoKale4320 Member Posts: 580
    edited July 2018

    WC3 - I like Dave's Killer Bread - there are several varieties. Not sure what country you live in and if it's available in your store. Eziekiel Bread is also another good brand. I can't say for sure about flaxseed, soy, honey and oil, though, but definitely no High fructose corn syrup.

    1RedGirl - Hormone therapy vs diet and lifestyle to combat estrogen - I'm right there with you on that. As far as the low number of survivors who change their diet and lifestyle - I think there is so much confusion about what is good and what is bad and no real direction is given by doctors - or worse, the doctors push the standard american diet. Doctors have so much faith in medicine and ambivalence for diet and convince patients to have this same outlook.

    As far as vegans go and their advice - I do find some on the Forks Over Knives facebook page to be smug and insensitive. I just try to wade through some of the hostile comments to find the valuable information I need to eat well. Everyone on this thread is much more supportive to others as we weigh information and make decisions for ourselves. I am not vegan, but I won't rule it out down the road. I am striving to be more plant-based, though.

    Pi-Xi - I believe all the carrageenan has been removed from the almond milk and maybe the soy milk here in the United States.

    Heidi - great idea about doing vegan for a week. I hear you about the family, though. I have been experimenting with different recipes lately. They are such good sports. However, I only prepare dinner for everyone - they can eat what they want for breakfast and lunch.

    Warrior - thanks for the links on vegan salad dressings - I was just struggling with this over the weekend. My old recipe has olive oil in it so now having read "How Not to Die", I am looking for new recipes without oil. Also the vegan breakfast recipes...Wow! So many yummy things -


  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 3,293
    edited July 2018

    I went away for the weekend so just catching up.

    -my suspicion is that pesticides and herbicides and chemical residues are a large part of the cancer story. If anyone is interested in this, check out Living Downstream by ecologist & cancer survivor Sandra Steingraber. She's an excellent writer so I recommend the books but there's also a film. "the disconnect between what we in the scientifc community know about carcinogens in the environment and what cancer patients are told is huge" http://www.livingdownstream.com/trailer

    Breast cancer patients are often talking about estrogen & hormones - well, many of the carcinogens in the environment are hormone disruptors.

    Her book Having Faith, about being pregnant & being intensely aware of how the chemicals she was exposed to were affecting embryology, is also fascinating. http://steingraber.com/books/having-faith/


    -re the Dr Funk 90%, I think all she was saying is that if you identify 10 risk factors and 9 of them are under your control, then it automatically follows that 9/10 = 90% of the risk factors are things the person can change.

    -re animals aren't human (about the cat food) - but humans ARE animals :)

    -I am vegan because of ethics, health & environment. I don't actually think there is a whole lot of evidence that eating 100% plant based is significantly better than eating say 80-90% plant based whole foods. But ethics & environment + health are what make me go 100% vegan. I love that shirt Wildplaces.

    -about the low % of people changing lifestyle post bc diagnosis - I think it comes down to several issues:

    1) My sense is that some people are very fatalistic in their outlook and just believe that what they do has little impact & they can't change most things.

    2) Some people simply cannot accept that lifestyle choices may have an impact because then they think it means you're blaming the person for getting sick.

    3) Others perhaps have really not had their doctors explain to them what the evidence shows & their medical team is not really encouraging them to make changes. That is very troubling to me as it seems to be inadequate medical care & not giving people the full information to be in charge of their health.

    4) Others know the data but choose to ignore it. I can respect that; I don't *get* it, but everyone makes their own choices and people value different things in life. Some people seem to point blank say they'd rather eat x,y.z, be overweight, drink etc etc because that is how they enjoy life. They appear to be ok with shortening life if it means they can keep on doing those things.




  • GoKale4320
    GoKale4320 Member Posts: 580
    edited July 2018

    http://www.alliedacademies.org/articles/potential-...

    Interesting article that covers research of different plant compounds and spices that induce cancer cell apoptosis and reduces proliferation. That's my elementary synopsis

  • Warrior2018
    Warrior2018 Member Posts: 212
    edited July 2018

    You’re welcome GoKake, and thank you to you for that link. Very good info.


  • pi-xi
    pi-xi Member Posts: 177
    edited July 2018
    Moth, I have to admit, I sort of get it to a degree. Despite my strong commitment to exercise and a mostly VERY healthy diet, I drew the line at fish. I was trying to eat salmon once a week and my DH tried so hard to make it good for me, but at one point I just said if there's a choice between extending my life and having to eat fish, I'll take the earlier death. I would just feel yucky after I ate it. (I do take fish oil supplements.)
  • hapa
    hapa Member Posts: 613
    edited July 2018

    Pi-Xi: I tried to eat some fish while I was on chemo b/c the nurse told me more protein might help with my blood counts and fluid retention problems, but I had a really hard time with it too. The PS suggested eating meat might help with my recovery after surgery, so I might give chicken a shot, or maybe some bone broth, but I find the idea very unappealing.

  • pi-xi
    pi-xi Member Posts: 177
    edited July 2018
    Thanks for the information, GoKale!


    What is playing the role of the emulsifier now? Is it like replacements for BPA, which by accounts I have read, are worse?


    P.S. I love your name! 😊
  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 658
    edited July 2018

    Heidihill:

    I'm supposed to eat a lot of protein but I can't have so or dairy and during chemo apparently not fish so that leaves poultry and eggs and it's just difficult to get enough in to me. I really wish dairy in normal quantities wasn't off limits right now. Things would be so much nicer.

  • WC3
    WC3 Member Posts: 658
    edited July 2018

    GoKale4320:

    Thanks for the bread recommendations.

  • Warrior2018
    Warrior2018 Member Posts: 212
    edited July 2018

    WC3- here’s a list of plant protein sources. Maybe incorporating some of these can help get additional protein in your diet. http://foodbybri.com/plant-protein-chart/

    Here’s a sneak preview of the list:

    image

    Brown rice, quinoa and spinach are also listed, lots more too. Hope it can help.



  • moth
    moth Member Posts: 3,293
    edited July 2018

    WC3 - legumes might be your friend. Here's a recipe for a chickpea flour 'omelette' https://sweetsimplevegan.com/2017/06/loaded-chickp... 15.5 g of protein not counting filling. When I've made this, i use the veg leftover from dinner the day before.

    Black bean soup https://www.thespruceeats.com/quick-vegetarian-bla... 14.5 g of protein


  • dearlife
    dearlife Member Posts: 634
    edited July 2018

    Heidihill I like the Harvard article on how high consumption of fruits and veg reduces the risk of more aggressive tumours. Maybe a healthy lifestyle doesn't always prevent breast cancer but can limit the severity.

    Also, filling up with veg leaves less room for "bad" foods. Call it "vegcrowding" :).

    Putting lots of veg on the grill tonight here at Secret Cove.

    image

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