Diet and Lifestyle
Comments
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GoKale - the actual study is all online for free access. https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaoncology/arti...
The methods for calculating muscle mass, quality of muscle and body fat are very sophisticated and not something I can see replicating at home.
my comment: What I found interesting is that BMI *under*-estimates low muscle / high fat according to this study. It doesn't invalidate bmi, it just suggests that things are quite possibly worse than people think as even some good bmi people in this study had low muscle & high fat. I hear peple discount bmi all the time but I've said for years, unless you're an elite athlete or bodybuilder, your bmi is probably in the right ballpark....& if anything, a healthy bmi errs on allowing us to carry too much fat.
They conclude be mentioning resistance training and protein supplementation.
Walking does build muscle in thighs and butt. I think whoever wrote that summary added the walking as I didn't see it in the article itself. But there's some thought that suggesting walking is the way to go because non exercisers find it non threatening and are more likely to do it and the logic goes that something is better than nothing. I mean really they should be working up to running and lifting weights but if people won't even walk for 30 min a day, you have to start somewhere I guess.0 -
Moth - thanks for the link. It was an interesting read. I do understand the part about BMI not being a reliable indicator. I've heard the term "skinny-fat" to describe people with visceral fat around their organs yet they didn't seem to weigh too much so their BMI is low, but they are fat inside. Also body builders weigh a lot but it's all muscle so their BMI is high, yet they are healthy.
I just hope that with a better diet, cutting out bad fats and sugar, and resistance training and cardio I can improve my body composition - especially challenging in middle age/menopause - without having to be a serious body builder. Even though we can't really measure it ourselves at home, perhaps we can move in the right direction...just knowing that resistance training makes a difference.
Oh, and I did read in the "How not to Die" book that the message to just walk 30 minutes a day is aimed toward people who do less than that.
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Hi all, thank you for posting so much useful info. It is overload to me. I'm soon to be 57 and making too drastic a change is not gonna stick with someone my age! LOL For example: I don't ever see myself jogging or running. I do walk at moderate speed. I do both outdoor walking and the treadmill (currently at 3.5mph working towards 4.0). I also do more weight bearing exercise-some with weights and other things as well stretches and such. I'm no where near this 150 minutes per week and I just flat out refuse to have some statistic from a probably flawed study give me a time limit. I'm doing something and that's better than nothing!! I feel good with my 2x's sometime 3x's a week exercise and I try to get at least 3/4 to 1 mi of a walk in everyday. I refuse to time myself and I refuse to live by numbers and percentages.
So, that's probably the last you'll see me here to post. I wish you all well and keep up the good work!!
I just eliminated ice cream. I made a small cone the other night and within 5 minutes was in a sweat/hot flash that lasted a good long while. The Arimidex has not effected me with any issues and I'm so glad.
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hi ctmbsikia,
😊 Thank you for posting - I am 50 years old, of normal BMI - right bang in the middle and of average fitness. I sit down a lot at work and I was stunned to find out how little I can sometimes move over a 6-8 hour period. I started walking regularly (about 5-6/ week) after my diagnosis/treatment with no inital greater goal but to get back my usual energy levels. I have managed to keep that up ( I am close to 2 years from diagnosis ) and I find myself running ( no not marathons) but in my fast walk sometimes I feel like breaking into a jog for 500-700 m and moving my arms more and being lighter on my feet - I wonder if in a year I won't be running - let's see.
I am now doing a Jane Fonda cardio work out ( YouTube just google if interested ) level 1-2-3 available Heidihill posted. Jane is close to 70 in it with two joints replaced and it takes about 25 minutes. I then do some of the yoga poses posted on the stage 4 exercise thread for bone density. I have weights - I keep them in the kitchen. I love the outdoors, swimming and gardening.
We are all different but just as 20-30% of early disease might progress, the rest will NOT but most of us will be on AI or version of for 5 years minimum and more like 10 and at some point the effects of oestrogen blockade will take its toll - anything that we can do to manage those side effects - diet, exercise, lifestyle is like care for our future selves. If on top it will benefit my particular flavour of cancer all the better.
For me everyday doing a little bit more to take care of myself is a great thing - I love this thread because it supports that and does not judge - walk, run or jump, vegetarian, Mediaterranean or Paleo - all of it says - you carve time to take care of yourself best your instinct tells you how.
Thank you everyone for posting 😊🌷🐣
Hmmm... I have said this before - I am the person who a while back responded to Moth that I could never weigh my food - I don't still but I have become a lot more aware of portion size, ofcalories and nutrient value - I am learning - again, thank you! Love it - it's called stretching and it's good for me.
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PS - I have the occ ice cream - I like both chocolate and vanilla but I am making lemon and Lima sorbet as well - it's a small portion and it would be about twice a month. I also have a recipe for biscuits from DearLife that I am grateful for - I have had it for over a month and I have not got around to making it for my son, but I will. Everyday my fridge is vegan but if the occasion occurs I indulge and then I go back to my routine that seems to keep my energy levels were I am settled and my face looking okaish in the morning ( and anyone over 40 probably knows what I mean by that) 😊🌷
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I was already dedicated to an exercise program, but my oncologist told me to do it and "to go as hard as you can". (I thought maybe he didn't know my intensity!) Some days I'm not sure going that hard is a great idea, I try to do a variety of exercise programs so I don't get injured from pushing too much. However, exercise is the only part of the cancer fiasco that has positive side effects! Look good, feel great, get stronger. What's not to love? (Good eating is pretty nice too. 😊)0 -
I think it can be overwhelming to think of having to change everything when so many other things are changing as well. Holding on to "I'll never..." is a way of holding onto 'normal'. But as you say, Wildplaces, you become more aware of the possibilities and maybe take a step in that direction by using smaller plates. Or adding 5' onto your walk.
For anyone who might be considering a little bit of running, I enjoyed reading Amby Burfoot's new book "Run Forever" recently—he takes you from never-ever to runner and strongly recommends run/walk for both newbies and experienced runners. So maybe you run 10 seconds and walk 50 seconds for a week, and then move up a bit as you feel ready.
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I wouldn't mind running, but have been strongly advised not to by a couple of orthopedists (terrible back). Walking is fine though, so I do that instead. It is not as intense as running, but so far, so good, knock wood.
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ChelseaSculler - thanks for that book recommendation. Programs like couch to 5 k are essentially a mix of walk/run though I found I had to progress slower through them than they 'expect' you to. I plan to start something like a c25k again in the next couple weeks but I'll have a look at that book & see if it might be a better fit for me.
That runner v. walker study is on my mind a lot. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ij...esp since I won't be getting hormonal therapy to keep my cancer at bay.
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Momine, maybe think about Nordic Walking if running is contraindicated? Poles do take stress off the knees and apparently can push it towards 'vigorous' rather than 'moderate'. (Based on my very deep research of one google search...
) Moth, I'm obsessed by that study. Probably overly so. But even if it isn't as good as it sounds, exercise does make me feel better in both brain and body so it gives me an excuse to lace up instead working!
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I was once a runner in my 30s. Then one day, I felt my hip pinch me. Formthe next few weeks it got worse. There were a few excellent runners running at the same time as me. I closely analyzed their movement. They ran effortlessly. I realized my body was telling me I was not one of them. I eventually went back to riding horses. That I was good at and required balance and strength. When I severely injured my knee a few years back, I decided I needed to curtail rising and long lining which I loved. Seriously, I could not walk on that leg. The pain all the time was excruciating. After seeing orthopedic doctors, etc., which helped, but not enough for any sort of serious walking, I took up riding a bike. I read that where my injury was is very hard to get blood flow to tissues, but biking helps. Well, all is great today. My knee is healed. All the injections I had helped, but only a bit. Exercise cured it.0
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GoKale4320 - thanks for the warm welcome! You asked what I’m doing to stay healthy, my husband and I are vegan, mostly whole food no oil, I love to cook, and try to “Eat the Rainbow” with lots of colorful plants. I am on Arimidex for one more year, no side effects though my bone density scan a few months ago showed some bone density loss, so I started doing strength training with weights, resistance bands. I use this incredible book by Joan Pagano, filled with info geared for women, easy to follow. Oh also I get exercise chasing my four rescue dogs around.
Warrior2018 - those stuffed peppers look delicious! Gardein crumbles are so versatile.
1RedGirl - Wow 20 miles a day, that’s fantastic!
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Helenna, looks like a great book. Go for it! Redgirl, 20 mile rides, wow. I do my riding mostly for errands and getting around town and we have a small town. I should get out of the city more. Momine, ditto what Chelsea said. Poles are good for the arms and makes for better cardio. I use them on hikes.
As for running, I was also a non-runner and it took several repetitions of the couch to 5K program in whole or in part to get me into a regular habit. It may have been a years-long project but worth the effort as you reap benefits while trying and get better each time.
I think the reason running is better is that it is more stress on the bones. So if you combine walking with strength training I am almost sure you can get the same benefit. Also running depletes glycogen faster and thus is more efficient for fat-burning. But here you can do a HIIT program with walking or cycling to get the same benefit. Just rev up the intensity for 30 seconds or a minute.
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I agree with the idea of the HIIT for biking or walking. I was tracking my METS when riding the stationary bike on random hill setting at the gym. At one point my METS were at 12.4. So I think the intensity capability is still there in other forms, in addition to running.
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I started biking last summer. I had not been on a bike since in decades. Boy did it feel wobbly. I was never a good bike rider even as a kid. I fell constantly. I apparently think I have more ability than I actually do. So after my mastectomy this spring, I decided to get rid of that tire around my middle that feeds my estrogen. I began very slowly since my rt arm was nearly useless. Frankly, I just pushed myself. I rode twice a day to think and deal with what had happened in my life. I can ride for miles. We have little traffic. I live way out in the country. My husband rides with me sometimes. We are doing hills now. Yikes. It is a mental challenge more than physical.
I must get rid of this fat around my middle. As of today, 22 lbs gone. I will, I will, I will.0 -
1redgirl - I recently bought one of those fold up bikes, so I can throw it in the car and bike whenever I want to. Unfortunately the weather here in Indiana has been so brutally hot this summer, 95 today, that I’ve only used it once so far! Ugh.....
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1redgirl, that's awesome! I like your commitment. Cycle on!0
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Fold up bike?! That’s very hip! Never seen one of those in person I don’t think. It is so hot here in OH too. Very humid.
Sooo I bought a kayak today!!!!! Yay! I’m veryexcited!! Can’t wait!
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You all are so motivational!
If anyone is interested in streaming exercise videos, check out www.gethealthyutv.com All levels are available, and it's geared toward women. It is a paid membership, but relatively reasonable. There is also www.gethealthyu.com which has recipes and articles (free site). Here's one about strength training.
https://gethealthyu.com/strength-training-moves-for-women-over-50/?slider=strength-training-over-50
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Moth thanks for the research link. Very interesting to read about how vigorous exercise works to reduce risk:
“Running affects a variety of biomarkers associated with the breast cancer risk [e.g., endogenous estradiol,35 fasting insulin levels and type 2 diabetes mellitus,36,37 high-sensitivity plasma C-reactive protein (CRP)38] and it is reasonable to hypothesize that these biomarkers might also relate to post- diagnosis survival. Specifically, running is associated with decreased estrogen concentrations,39 reduced incident type 2 diabetes17,40 and lower plasma CRP concentrations.41 Vigororous exercise may be especially efficacious in altering menstrual function and patterns, thereby reducing circulating endogenous hormone levels and cumulative hormone exposure.34 Running is also more effective for preventing weight gain than walking,23 which may be important because post- diagnosis weight gain reduces survival.42“
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/ijc.28740
I used to run when I was younger - even did a couple of half marathons - but not good for my antique knees. I am a big fan of elliptical workouts. The motion is low impact on joints and uses upper body too. The exertion can be equivalent to running:
“ Porcari studied the difference between ellipticizing and treadmill running and found that heart rate and oxygen consumption were nearly identical when exercising at a similar rate of perceived exertion. The impact forces on the elliptical, however, were more comparable to walking than to running, making the elliptical a good alternative for cardiovascular conditioning without the pounding.“
I listen to music or podcasts on the elliptical and do half an hour on alternate days. Other days a long walk outside plus adding more weight training now.
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Great links and great info on running. Good reminder.
A couple of links- one about benefits of ginger tea:
http://wellandgood.com/good-food/how-to-make-ginger-tea/
One about different types of magnesium:
http://wellandgood.com/good-advice/types-of-magnesium-supplements/
This a .com but appears to be pretty good/informative.
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Love ginger tea. Try to drink at least 1 cup a day. I am still trying to drink more water.
So I have posted, a few times, how my heart was broken losing my horse and Savannah cat this spring. Seriously, still cannot talk about it without sobbing. So for my birthday this past week, my husband bought me 2 miniature donkeys. They come to me around Oct 1 as they still need to be weaned. I cannot wait to see them in person. Because sitting in the car is still painful for me, they are delivering. I will post pictures. Seriously, they are too cute. They should help mend my heart which will help me fight my cancer.0 -
So happy for you redgirl!! 0 -
Redgirl what a sweet present. Can't wait to see the pics. Happy birthday to you!
I am trying to drink more water too. One reason I don't like it is having to go to the bathroom constantly (sorry if TMI). It brings back memories of when I was four and my mother dressed me in overalls. I wanted to wear dresses because it was much more convenient to pee and I could go back to playing sooner. Actually sometimes I think I waited too long and it became urgent to fiddle with the buttons.
Hmmm. 🤔 Maybe I should wear more dresses....
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1redgirl. That's a wonderful gift. Happy birthday! What a darling husband.
I was on a road trip to PAlm Desert for DD's basketball torny. 112 degrees! Couldn't exercise but drank a big ginger and turmeric smoothie from a raw juice bar.
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I had to make up for some Ukrainian wedding reception sins from this weekend. DH whipped up this sweet potato rhubarb salad. I'm sure all the polkas made up for a few of the perogies. 🙄
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Your husband is super creative! That looks amazing
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Sounds like a wonderful wedding! And that’s a good looking salad. I've only had rhubarb in pie before. Did your hubby steam it and/or sweeten it?.
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Oh my gosh PiXi! Your post made me smile!!! Polkas and perogies! 😂 Too cute. Beautiful salad too. That hubby of yours sure knows how to make a mean salad!
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Is there a specific vegan & plant-based diet thread somewhere ? i'm trying to find one to bump but not having any luck.
My active topics list keeps spitting out paleo and keto & I would like to see a celebrating plant based eating thread be more active and prominent.0
