In Favor of Feminism: Share Your Views

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

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  • illimae
    illimae Member Posts: 5,745

    Divine, I’ve always had a problem with that one, arggg. Stealing that one 🙂

  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 5,318

    Sadly, that is the only way for some to realize the worth of all women. Lack of empathy for others is a real problem for all civil societies.

  • nkb
    nkb Member Posts: 1,561



    This is a response I read from Betsy Rose a singer activist who a man called out about a joke she posted about women being a better choice to help out on Christmas Day

    “In my decades of public life as singer and song leader lifting up women's hidden/silenced stories and truths, I definitely have encountered discomfort on some women's part, the concern that this lifting the veil and breaking the silence is somehow hurtful to men, and should be softened to protect their feelings. Leslie, I honor this care and tender heartedness, your sense of fairness,BUT my growth as a woman ( and I'm in a lifelong committed relationship with a man) has led me to realize that I can't always BOTH speak truth and liberate my own mind and heart and hopefully others, while at the same time protecting and softening the message for men. And humor is such a bouyant way for all of us-men to- to acknowledge some truths that many are learning to face and grow from. My partner had a good chuckle when I read this quip to him. There is this term "Male Fragility", which names the way that those used to being in the dominant privileged position in society have very little stamina and resilience for hearing some truth from those who live under that system and don't benefit from it as they do. (We are probably all familiar with "White Fragility"-))I've come to trust that men can grow, can self examine, can change, and if they aren't ready or willing, it is NOT MY WORK TO DO FOR THEM!! Thanks for this conversation- its a familiar and challenging one!

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

    Nkb, I love the thoughtful response of Betty Rose. “Male fragility” makes me gag. I think it is used to try and shame women and minorities for wanting, thinking they could be, should have equality. She’s also right that the conversation is a familiar one as well as challenging.

    She says, emphatically in caps, it’s not her job to do the work for men to grow, self examine and change. This resonates with me because I’ve been working for several years on setting firmer boundaries in my life, and one key message I’ve learned is it’s not my responsibility to make sure others are responsible. It took awhile for me to let go of this expectation of myself that I had to do so much for others but now that I’ve got a better handle on it, it’s very freeing. So I like that Betty Rose really puts that out there so assertively.


  • exbrnxgrl
    exbrnxgrl Member Posts: 5,318

    Wow! I truly thought I would never have anything good to say about mbc. It is most certainly not a gift but I believe it has allowed me not to feel responsible for everyone else’s happiness and comfort. I have no idea how long/short my life will be and I need to be very selective about how I spend my time and emotional strength.

  • everymoment
    everymoment Member Posts: 6,656

    Admittedly, I have not thought that I was responsible for how others felt, but this conversation has me rethinking that belief. In order to end a family impasse, I would be doing so by owning more than my share so as to make male members of my family happy. As said more than once about the males in my family, they are too old to change, whereas I am digging in my heals. They get a free pass while I get an indictment. I too have made a decision based on my emotional needs in whatever time I have remaining and that does not include expending energy locating, pulling up or cutting an olive branch to offer those with their hands in their pockets.

  • trishyla
    trishyla Member Posts: 698

    Next time someone "indicts" you for digging in your heels, magiclight, you can tell them that it's your understanding that in your family there comes a time when you become too old to change. And then tell them you've decided you're old enough to qualify.

    I'm still a work in progress when it comes to not taking responsibility for other's actions. 😕

  • nkb
    nkb Member Posts: 1,561

    Me too re work in progress. I always feel like I am strong enough to compromise- but, increasingly think that men are fragile and we enable that.
    if you look at it- women are accused of doing stuff that really it what men do more ( interrupt, take credit for things they didn’t do, think they are more competent than they are, think they automatically belong) the stereotypes are so deep.
    caring about community, poor and disenfranchised vs your own power grab.

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

    Over two years ago, I noticed many red flags in the relationships I had with four of my siblings who live nearby. I'd been tolerating their bad behavior towards me far too long because I was being nice, kind, understanding, forgiving. I was going along to get along. Keeping the peace. There's lots of female social conditioning behind all my behaviors which was reinforced by my family as well as a religious background that I'd moved on from awhile ago.

    In January 2020, I made a New Year's resolution to set boundaries with my brothers and sisters. Even during a pandemic, it was much, much harder than I dreamed it would be. I wanted to assert myself without becoming the bad guy. Sometimes this meant turning down their many requests by texting them with nice words and emojis while still basically saying no. Over and over. I sent Christmas gifts without attending their Christmas gatherings. I acknowledged graduations and births with cards. I could contribute to their lives without being immersed in them, which had been one of my problems. Now I'm very selective about which family get-togethers I go to and I have more fun seeing them less often. Still love them, but hey.

    I’m still a work in progress, but with baby steps, I've made progress I'm proud of and have learned so much. It sounds weird, but I found lots of useful advice on Pinterest of all places. I created a file, or I think it's called a board on the app, and fill it with tips and insights about boundaries that I come across. Occasionally, I'll skim through it to refresh my mind on the topic. Interesting to me is this information makes even more sense to me now than when I first started.

    During this process, I found myself noticing that I needed better boundaries in all my other relationships, not just siblings. Small but continuous changes work best for me.

    Here's an example of something I found on Pinterest:


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  • everymoment
    everymoment Member Posts: 6,656

    Divine, to do that which is as you say, much harder than you dreamed, is courageous. Honors to you for being courageous one second, one act at a time.

  • miriandra
    miriandra Member Posts: 2,230

    Setting boundaries with family is never fun. I haven't spoken with my brother in 11 years because I dared to not put up with his drama. Our Dad was planning to come visit the kids, and bro tried to invite himself along too. Dealing with my brother is very stressful. He has this attitude that family members have to love you because you're family, so it doesn't matter if you treat them like crap. I had a baby and a 3 y/o to manage, so I didn't need any more children in the house, much less a grown one. I told him that he had just visited a month ago, and he didn't need to come visit again so soon. "Well maybe I just shouldn't come visit ever, then!" So I called his bluff. "You can come visit again, but not now." Then he cut off contact.

    Honestly, I'm not crying over it. He made the decision to ignore my boundaries to begin with, then he made the decision to get hyperbolic, then he made the decision to "punish" me by not speaking to me. It's all on him. And I'm ok with it.

  • alicebastable
    alicebastable Member Posts: 1,957

    I'm trying to set boundaries with my sister. We stay in touch by text, and she texts me several times a day with all kinds of random shit that doesn't even make sense half the time. I spent almost seventy years hearing "Don't say or do anything to upset Sister because we all know how she gets." Yeah, and Sister got away with being rude and selfish all her life because she knew we wouldn't call her out on the drama. Well, Mom's been gone four years, and I don't have to live by her rules now. It's actually kind of fun!

  • minustwo
    minustwo Member Posts: 13,397

    Alice - I get it. My brother sends me at least 4-5 emails every day, which are mostly copies of links he things are "wonderful". I rarely respond. I don't text so I'm spared that immediancy.

  • SerenitySTAT
    SerenitySTAT Member Posts: 3,534

    Edited to let go.

  • nkb
    nkb Member Posts: 1,561

    Devine- I like your notes- they are important reminders.
    it’s really interesting to cut off a badly behaving sibling. (Almost Everyone seems to have one) I cut off my sister a few years after my mother died - I always thought her behavior was from mental Illness so I endured it ( including her robbing me when she came for family gatherings at my houserepeatedly! And lying about others etc) but, then a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist said- she may be mentally ill, but she knows what she is doing. That was an epiphany and allowed me to remove myself from her toxicity. I was going to meet with her in a cafe and list my grievances- but, there were so many and when she wrote to say She had no idea what She did wrong, I decided it was a lost cause. On my mothers death bed she gave me permission to not engage with her anymore ( mothers usually know whether you tell them all this stuff or not)

    But, the surprising thing was my other sister wanting me to put her back in my life and all the rest of the world’s attitude that if you have the same genes you must put up with them. I am so much happier without her in my life. I don’t like confrontation and I have a major peacemaker gene- so a relationship with her goes deeply against loving myself. Having cancer, a DH and 3 lovely kids sharing my energy clarifies things.


  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

    I appreciate the stories everyone is sharing about sibling boundaries. We hear so much about bullying but never in the context of it coming from your own siblings, whether as a child or adult. But I've experienced much bullying at the hands of my siblings.

    Something I learned about boundaries is that no response is a response. Recently when my sister asked me to make plans for an activity, I said, “I'll have to get back to you." Then I didn't get back to her. I learned that was an acceptable response.

    Two sisters deliberately exclude me from parts of their lives while rubbing it in. After Thanksgiving, they flew to the Dominican Republic with one sister’s daughter, her husband and small child. Ahead of their trip, the sisters invited me to get pedicures with them, their treat. I guess this was supposed to be my consolation prize, since I wasn't asked to go to the DR. I turned down the pedicure which they pretended was for a sister bonding thing “to catch up". Who were they kidding? They were getting them because they were going on a tropical beach vacation which I'm sure they would have bragged about if they'd gotten me trapped between them in a pedicure chair.

    A couple years ago, I finally had it with one brother. I realized he'd deliberately create situations to make me look bad, to get me to react badly, like it was a sport to him. Very passive aggressive. No more tolerating the behavior. I haven't talked to him since, won't engage in group texts if he's included and told dh the brother is no longer welcome in my house.

    Family relationships are far too nuanced to be covered with a blanket statement like, “Family is everything." Such a saying is too generic and superficial. It also offers too much opportunity for women especially to tolerate unacceptable behavior, since society relegates us to the keepers of the castle, the heart of the home and all that keep sweet stuff. We don't have to accept it or feel guilt about walking away from toxic family members.

  • nkb
    nkb Member Posts: 1,561

    apparently Oprah is always being bombarded by people asking her to do things she didn’t want to do and she had a hard time saying no, so she learned to say “let me pray on that” no one could say no- don’t pray - it was her let me think about it and a good solution.

    All these relationships are so nuanced.

  • miriandra
    miriandra Member Posts: 2,230

    That kind of reminds me of one of my stock phrases - "No is a perfectly ok answer." I use it when I ask people for favors, and in my therapy sessions when I observe something in a client and want to see if it resonates. (It gives them permission to experience their own experience, they don't have to say "yes" to humor me, and it helps balance the power diferential.)

    "Yes" is such a heavy word. So is "should".

  • alicebastable
    alicebastable Member Posts: 1,957

    One of my sister's irritating things is to start sentences with "I need you to..." Chickie, I'm not your employee and I'm not your child. What you think you need is not my problem. You can ask me nicely. Of course, it still might not be my problem. 🤪

  • everymoment
    everymoment Member Posts: 6,656

    Edmonia Lewis carved a marble bust of Anna Quincy Waterson around 1866 and did most of her work outside the US. Today I bought a book of Edmonia Lewis postage stamps.

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

    Figure skating will stop calling women skaters 'ladies,' a step toward dismantling a century-long culture


    Calls for a cultural shift in figure skating have led to small changes in terminology and costume rules and larger changes that have created a more accepting culture for women and LGBTQ+ skaters.

    February 8, 2022



    In 1924, figure skating became the first sport in the Winter Olympics to allow women to compete. But though the men competed under categories for "men," women could only compete under "ladies."

    Figure skating is also the last winter sport to change that naming convention: The 2022 Winter Olympics is the first to let women compete as women, not ladies. It's a subtle change — one that audiences may miss — but a meaningful one. For a century, figure skating has clung to rigid gender rules, about everything from costumes to who can compete as a pair, that have enforced specific expectations about how athletes should look or behave. Some skaters have even reported hiding their gender identity in order to conform.

    That culture, while still deeply embedded in figure skating, is starting to change. And not just in name alone.

    This year, more out LGBTQ+ skaters, including the first out nonbinary Winter Olympian, will compete in the Games than ever before. This year there will be nine openly LGBTQ+ figure skaters in Beijing. There were three in 2018 and none in 2014. Overall, at least 35 out LGBTQ+ athletes will compete this year, double the number that competed in the last Winter Olympics.

    All of it is happening as the popularity of figure skating, particularly in the United States, continues to wane. More athletes and fans are calling for a significant cultural shift in figure skating that sheds its gendered, classist and racist roots and embraces a more diverse vision of what the sport can be. In the last couple of years, those calls have grown louder and more powerful, leading to small changes in terminology and costume rules and larger changes that have created a more accepting culture for LGBTQ+ skaters.

    Historically, figure skating was dominated by men and reserved for elites. Figure skating clubs excluded women and people of color.

    That legacy remains. The sport is dominated by White, well-off athletes who are molded, coached and judged by former athletes or judges who adhere to traditional aspects of the sport. It's still extremely expensive for kids to participate in figure skating, and much of the technical structure has rewarded heteronormative couplings and performances. That's particularly true in pairsskating and ice dance — the two disciplines of figure skating that are done in pairs. Pairs skating involves jumps and throws, while ice dance is a form of ballroom dancing on ice. In both disciplines, the rules are written to specify moves the man should do and moves the woman should do. It was only recently that women figure skaters started to wear pants more in competition — for ice dancers the rule was just changed for the 2021-2022 season.

    The terminology of "ladies" is a relic of the origins of figure skating, but over the past five to 10 years steam has built for change, said Jackie Wong, the expert behind Rocker Skating, a figure skating analysis site. Other countries, including Canada, had already adopted the change for some time, but the International Skating Union (ISU), the sport's international governing body, and the United States were holdouts.

    Ice dancer Kaitlyn Weaver, a two-time Olympian and three-time World medalist, said the terminology further emphasized the gendered nature of the sport. Women were celebrated for being graceful, polite, demure — all the qualities of a "lady" — instead of being athletic.

    In Canada, the country she's represented, women figure skaters have been called women figure skaters for as long as she'd been competing — at least a decade. Leanna Caron, the former president of Skate Canada, was one of the people who pushed the International Skating Union to make the change to women, Weaver said, along with other skaters and fans who felt the terminology was outdated and sexist. Men weren't being called "gentlemen," after all.

    But there was pushback from some who felt uncomfortable calling the teenagers who dominate figure skating "women," Wong said. Many of the leading athletes in the women's discipline are under 18, but that's not necessarily a new phenomenon. When Peggy Fleming first went to the Olympics to represent Team USA in 1964, she was 15.

    "As people have tried to post-rationalize why they use the word 'ladies' as opposed to women, that's what they've come to," he said.

    The change finally came last year, when the International Olympic Committee's Gender Equality Review Project proposed a rule change to the International Skating Union, calling for a balanced portrayal of men and women, the ISU said in a statement. The rule ultimately passed in the summer of 2021, making figure skating the last sport to do so at the international level.

    The impact of that can't be understated, Weaver said.

    "The term 'ladies' takes away our power, our athleticism, our sexuality," Weaver said. "Even in the English language there are instances where 'ladies' feels right versus where 'woman' feels right — 'the ladies who lunch' versus 'the first woman to land a triple axel.' When we talk about any type of athletic feat or strength or power, we use the word 'women.'"

    U.S. Figure Skating, however, has still not made the change.

    Barbara Reichart, a spokesperson for the national governing body, said U.S. Figure Skating is in the process of "reviewing the impact" of the ISU's change and how it would be implemented domestically, but, when asked, did not specify whether the change had already been decided on.



    Further reading: https://19thnews.org/2022/02/winter-olympics-figure-skating-women-lgbtq/?utm_campaign=19th-social&utm_content=for_a_century%2C_figure_ska&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2YI57qKj08gTk7IkYksd2N-FSTgSIsMjTsruaKHZmUURoqXLC_CQstBuk


  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

    The first Black Barbie doll was created by Spartanburg, South Carolina native Kitty Black Perkins in 1980. She was also the first Black designer for Barbie when she was hired at age 28. She rose in the company after a decade, hiring more black designers.

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

    U.S. Soccer and women soccer stars settle equal pay lawsuit for $24 million


    The landmark agreement will ensure equal pay for male and female players in U.S. soccer.


    Feb. 22, 2022


    Netherlands v United States: Women's Football Quarterfinal - Olympics: Day 7



    U.S. women soccer stars, including Megan Rapinoe and Alex Morgan, have reached a $24 million settlement with the U.S. Soccer Federation following a lawsuit over unequal pay with men's team players.

    The landmark settlement was announced Tuesday, years after a group of five U.S. Women's National Team players filed an Equal Employment Opportunity Commission complaint over inequality in pay and treatment.

    According to the terms of the settlement, U.S. Soccer will pay men and women at an equal rate in the future in all friendlies and tournaments, including the World Cup.

    "For us, this is just a huge win in ensuring that we not only right the wrongs of the past, but set the next generation up for something we only dreamed of," Rapinoe said Tuesday on NBC's "TODAY" show.

    "We are really in the midst of an incredible turning point in women's sport," she said, adding, "If you're not paying attention to this right now and what's happening in women's sport, you're sleeping on the whole thing."

    The EEOC complaint was filed in 2016 by Hope Solo and Carli Lloyd, who are now both retired, Becky Sauerbrunn, Morgan and Rapinoe.

    Then in March 2019, 28 members of the USWNT filed a lawsuit, citing years of ongoing institutionalized gender discrimination against the players in their compensation and working conditions.

    The lawsuit garnered national attention and led to stadium chants of "Equal Pay!" when the U.S. women's team won the 2019 World Cup in Paris.

    The disparity in pay between men and women is stark. FIFA awarded $400 million in prize money for the 32 teams at the 2018 men's World Cup, and $38 million to the champion, France. By comparison, FIFA awarded $30 million for the 24 teams at the 2019 women's World Cup, including $4 million to the U.S. after winning their second straight title.

    A global sensation and powerhouse in the sport, the team has won four FIFA Women's World Cup titles since the competition's founding in 1991.

    That stands in stark contrast to the men's national team, which took third place in the first World Cup played in 1930 — and hasn't come close since.

    U.S. Soccer will pay $22 million to the players in the case and an additional $2 million into an account to benefit USWNT players in their post-career goals and charitable efforts related to women's and girls' soccer, according to the settlement terms. Players will be able to apply for up to $50,000 from this fund.

    The legal back and forth in the case saw former U.S. Soccer Federation president Carlos Cordeiro resign in March 2020 in the wake of bitter backlash stemming from a legal filing that included sexist language comparing female and male players.

    His resignation led former American midfielder Cindy Parlow Cone to become the first woman president in the federation's history.

    The settlement is contingent on the ratification of a new Collective Bargaining Agreement for USWNT and U.S. Soccer, which will resolve all the claims in the 2019 suit.

    Morgan said on "TODAY" their work in leveling the playing field is not over.

    "U.S. Soccer has agreed to equalize the prize money moving forward, obviously we call on FIFA to truly equalize that for men's and women's tournaments," she said. "That's really what we set out to do. Equalize on all fronts."

    "It's a proud moment for all of us," she added.

    In a joint statement, the players and U.S. Soccer said: "Getting to this day has not been easy. The U.S. Women's National Team players have achieved unprecedented success while working to achieve equal pay for themselves and future athletes. Today, we recognize the legacy of the past USWNT leaders who helped to make this day possible, as well as all of the women and girls who will follow."

  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

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  • divinemrsm
    divinemrsm Member Posts: 6,621

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  • alicebastable
    alicebastable Member Posts: 1,957

    I love all of those!