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Topic: Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?

Forum: Life After Breast Cancer —

Managing life after a breast cancer diagnosis, including rediscovering intimacy, coping with fear of recurrence, reconnecting relationships, sharing hobbies and interests, and finding inspiration in daily life.

Posted on: Jan 18, 2008 03:39PM

thedudess wrote:

Hi I am newly diagnosed and I know alot of people rely on their faith for support and find great peace with that, however I am a atheist and was wondering if anyone else here was also.

thanks

Dx 1/7/2008, IDC, 4cm, Stage IIIA, Grade 3, 4/11 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2-
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Sep 11, 2021 05:28AM DivineMrsM wrote:

I would describe many religious restrictions not as petty but excessively oppressive and quite damaging.



found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Sep 11, 2021 01:28PM Miriandra wrote:

Truth

Dx 5/31/2019, DCIS/IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, 0/1 nodes, ER+ Surgery 8/14/2019 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left
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Sep 11, 2021 02:44PM - edited Sep 11, 2021 02:47PM by AliceBastable

One of the (many) annoying things about Christianity is that it's so full of factions from oppressive batshit crazies to benign semi-secular normals, and every thing in between plus bizarre tangents (but all claiming to be the True Christians™) that they need to get their story straight amongst themselves so the rest of us can tell who the hell they actually are. And then KEEP IT FOR THEMSELVES! I long for the century when proselytizing is illegal, along with any assumption that their co-citizens believe and celebrate like they do.

Endometrial cancer 2010, basal cell multiples, breast cancer 2018, kidney cancer 2018. Boring. Hope it stays that way. Dx 5/2018, ILC, Left, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/11/2018 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 8/8/2018 Radiation Therapy 10/29/2018 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes
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Sep 11, 2021 02:51PM wrenn wrote:

One of my favourite things about Canada (number one is healthcare) is that we have no idea for the most part who has what if any beliefs. I have no idea if our Prime Minister has a religion. Our NDP leader wears a turban and we know he is Sikh but he doesn't talk about it. I think religion here is seen to be personal.

Metaplastic IDC Triple negative...Tumour is 1.5cm. BMX Aug. 16th. Chemo cancelled after one dose due to complications. Dx 7/25/2013, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/6 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 8/16/2013 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left, Right
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Sep 11, 2021 03:49PM AliceBastable wrote:

Oh, that sounds wonderful. I wish my ancestors had gone farther north when they arrived!

Endometrial cancer 2010, basal cell multiples, breast cancer 2018, kidney cancer 2018. Boring. Hope it stays that way. Dx 5/2018, ILC, Left, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/11/2018 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 8/8/2018 Radiation Therapy 10/29/2018 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes
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Sep 11, 2021 04:37PM TB90 wrote:

Wrenn, more importantly, I think it is seen to be irrelevant. Just how it should be.

Dx 11/28/2013, DCIS, Grade 2 Surgery 12/18/2013 Mastectomy: Left Radiation Therapy 2/20/2014 Breast
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Sep 11, 2021 05:58PM Trishyla wrote:

I honestly believe that indoctrinating children into religion at an early age is a form of child abuse. If it's as great as you say it is, then you can safely wait until they've reached the age of reason before introducing them to any religious teachings.

Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Dx 9/6/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 9/28/2016 AC + T (Taxol) Surgery 4/4/2017 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): DIEP flap; Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Chemotherapy 8/5/2017 Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Sep 11, 2021 06:24PM wrenn wrote:

I agree about teaching children. How are children understanding transubstantiation? Or any of it really.

Metaplastic IDC Triple negative...Tumour is 1.5cm. BMX Aug. 16th. Chemo cancelled after one dose due to complications. Dx 7/25/2013, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/6 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 8/16/2013 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left, Right
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Sep 12, 2021 03:33AM DivineMrsM wrote:

found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Sep 12, 2021 06:15AM AliceBastable wrote:

DivineMrsM, Ooh, I love that!

Endometrial cancer 2010, basal cell multiples, breast cancer 2018, kidney cancer 2018. Boring. Hope it stays that way. Dx 5/2018, ILC, Left, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/11/2018 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 8/8/2018 Radiation Therapy 10/29/2018 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes
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Sep 12, 2021 07:00AM illimae wrote:

Divine, that’s great and I’m stealing it, lol

Diagnosed at 41 Stage IV De Novo Dx 11/16/2016, IDC, Left, 5cm, Stage IV, metastasized to bone, Grade 3, 3/13 nodes, ER+/PR-, HER2+ (IHC) Chemotherapy 1/1/2017 Abraxane (albumin-bound or nab-paclitaxel) Targeted Therapy 1/1/2017 Herceptin (trastuzumab) Targeted Therapy 1/1/2017 Perjeta (pertuzumab) Surgery 6/26/2017 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Underarm/Axillary Radiation Therapy 8/10/2017 Breast, Lymph nodes Dx 10/5/2017, IDC, Left, 5cm, Stage IV, metastasized to brain, Grade 3, 3/13 nodes, ER+, HER2+ (IHC) Radiation Therapy 10/19/2017 External: Brain Radiation Therapy 4/18/2018 External: Brain Radiation Therapy 5/22/2019 External: Brain Surgery 1/21/2020 Radiation Therapy 2/16/2020 External: Brain Radiation Therapy 7/20/2020 External: Bone Radiation Therapy 12/4/2020 External: Brain Hormonal Therapy Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Targeted Therapy Tukysa (tucatinib) Chemotherapy Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Sep 12, 2021 07:29AM KIDI919 wrote:

I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school. Guilt is a big tool for them. I'm still afraid of nuns! A lot of these types of religion are a political machines intent on brain washing.

Dx 9/17/2019, DCIS/IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (IHC)
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Sep 12, 2021 09:29AM DivineMrsM wrote:

wrenn, your comment about transubstantiation is an example of why I think the masses have it wrong about God. I do not even know what transubstantiation is and I have a decent background on religion and am a voracious reader! My point here is that if there is a God, such a deity would be simple for ALL to understand and it would not take all this intellectualism to grasp the meaning of the spirit world.

I felt this way for years before I ever left Christianity. It never made sense to me how complicated different religions made God out to be, all the rules: study Scripture, memorize Scripture, wear this, don’t eat that, tithe, fast, sacrifice, ect.. I wondered, well what about all the many people who are mentally challenged? How can they get God if they struggle just with being cognizant? What about people in countries who’ve never heard of Jesus? Then they die but since they never heard of him they never got saved, so they got doomed to hell? Sorry about your luck there? And of course, those of us who didn’t do our utmost to spread and share the Gospel have their blood on our hands! Yes, that’s something I was taught, too. Geeze. I struggled to make ends meet but I was supposed to worry about the souls in a foreign land. If there is a higher power, in my mind all people on Earth would have equal opportunity to have this revealed to them without needing to read or follow instructions to stay on the good side of that power. There would be a fairness to it.

I will go look up transubstantiation now!


found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Sep 12, 2021 09:31AM - edited Sep 12, 2021 09:40AM by DivineMrsM

Haha! I was even raised Catholic and never heard the word transubstantiation used to describe the transformation of the Eucharist!

Which leads me to a similar question like you had, wrenn. How do people go about telling their young children what Immaculate Conception means? I mean, there are many Catholic Schools that use that phrase such as “Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception Elementary." Don't kids first have to first know the basics of how conception occurs? At what age does that start and then does it segue right into Mary’s virginity and how wonderful that is? Teaching lots of sexual hang ups right out of the gate.

found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Sep 12, 2021 09:46AM wrenn wrote:

Divine, I used that as an example because I can remember it freaking me out studying for confirmation. What a horror to consume the body and blood of christ. Eesh.

Regarding immaculate conception. I married my high school sweetheart (got together at age 16 and married at almost age 22 ...almost considered spinsterish in those days). After being married for 8 months I was referred to a shrink because I was still a virgin. My mother apparently told my father and when I saw him he hugged me and said "I always knew you were a good girl". One of the many reasons I loathe catholicism.

Metaplastic IDC Triple negative...Tumour is 1.5cm. BMX Aug. 16th. Chemo cancelled after one dose due to complications. Dx 7/25/2013, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/6 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 8/16/2013 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left, Right
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Sep 12, 2021 10:23AM AliceBastable wrote:

One good thing about Catholicism: without it, we'd never have had Tom Lehrer's Vatican Rag.

https://youtu.be/pvhYqeGp_Do

First you get down on your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Do whatever steps you want if
You have cleared them with the Pontiff.
Everybody say his own
Kyrie eleison,
Doin' the Vatican Rag.

Get in line in that processional,
Step into that small confessional.
There the guy who's got religion'll
Tell you if your sin's original.
If it is, try playin' it safer,
Drink the wine and chew the wafer,
Two, four, six, eight,
Time to transubstantiate!

So get down upon your knees,
Fiddle with your rosaries,
Bow your head with great respect,
And genuflect, genuflect, genuflect!

Make a cross on your abdomen,
When in Rome do like a Roman;
Ave Maria,
Gee, it's good to see ya.
Gettin' ecstatic an' sorta dramatic an'
Doin' the Vatican Rag!

Source: Musixmatch

Songwriters: Tom Thomas Lehrer

Endometrial cancer 2010, basal cell multiples, breast cancer 2018, kidney cancer 2018. Boring. Hope it stays that way. Dx 5/2018, ILC, Left, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/11/2018 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 8/8/2018 Radiation Therapy 10/29/2018 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes
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Sep 12, 2021 10:41AM wrenn wrote:

SillyHeart

Metaplastic IDC Triple negative...Tumour is 1.5cm. BMX Aug. 16th. Chemo cancelled after one dose due to complications. Dx 7/25/2013, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/6 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 8/16/2013 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left, Right
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Sep 12, 2021 11:16AM magiclight wrote:

Alice - the Vatican rag brings back memories - Oh am old!!!

Surgery 4/26/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 1 Surgery
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Sep 12, 2021 05:22PM magiclight wrote:

A new term I learned today - Christofascism. Wikipedia.com describes it in part: Christofascism "disposed or allowed Christians, to impose themselves not only upon other religions but other cultures, and political parties which do not march under the banner of the final, normative, victorious Christ" – as Knitter describes Sölle's view.[6][7]

Does todays American Christianity have deep roots in Christian Fascism? Sure looks like the description of Christofascism and may explain the religious right's opposition to any anti-fascism groups.

Christian Fascism

Surgery 4/26/2015 Mastectomy: Left, Right Dx IDC, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 1 Surgery
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Sep 12, 2021 08:37PM Miriandra wrote:

Even more fun with Catholic beliefs, the Immaculate Conception doesn't refer to Jesus' conception, it refers to Mary's. Mary's parents were both barren. They prayed for a child, and god sent Mary. Since she was conceived without sex, she was born without the stain of original sin. This made her a worthy vessel for Jesus.

But all of this is nonsense, since as a good Jewish woman, she would have had a ketubah that would have specified how frequently her husband would be obligated to "please" her in bed.

Dx 5/31/2019, DCIS/IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, 0/1 nodes, ER+ Surgery 8/14/2019 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left
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Sep 13, 2021 03:45AM Salamandra wrote:

The ketubah does not state the frequency of sex. It states the consequences in case of divorce and the full names and identifications of the people getting married.

The frequency of sex is from other Jewish texts and it has more of the status of stories/guidelines than commandment.

There's enough Christian obfuscation of Judaism without adding atheist obfuscation of it.

I consider myself a secular Jew and I think of myself as having been raised that way. I think the line between cultural indoctrination and religious indoctrination can get very hazy, as can the line between where indoctrination in general is problematic as opposed to a parent just raising their kid, and making decisions about what holidays to celebrate and how. Is celebrating Thanksgiving inherently indoctrinating a kid into American culture? Yeah, it pretty much is. Is it bad? Well, I don't know. Probably depends on a constellation of surrounding factors.

Dx at 39. 1.8cm. Oncotype 9. Dx 9/19/2018, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 2, 0/3 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- (FISH) Surgery 10/18/2018 Lumpectomy; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Hormonal Therapy 11/1/2018 Tamoxifen pills (Nolvadex, Apo-Tamox, Tamofen, Tamone) Radiation Therapy 12/3/2018 Whole-breast: Breast Hormonal Therapy 12/19/2019 Fareston (toremifene)
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Sep 13, 2021 04:48AM - edited Sep 13, 2021 04:52AM by DivineMrsM

Miriandra, that's not what I was taught the Immaculate Conception means. We were taught that Mary was and remained a virgin, no penis in vagina necessary to conceive Jesus, i.e., Immaculate Conception = virgin birth. God planted the seed in her, not Joseph. She also didn't die. The skies parted and she was raised up into the heavens by God to live with God eternally, i.e., the Assumption.

Therein lies more complication. Not all Catholics were taught the same thing. If you google Catholic Assumption, you will get different takes on its meaning. But back in the 1960s when I was fully immersed in the Catholicism of my parents attending Sunday church and Catholic school, those were the things that we were taught.

I also assumed the Bible stories were literal, that someone lived inside a huge fish and that someone actually turned into a pillar of salt, ect. No one ever told me differently, not a priest, a nun, a youth group leader, a lay person. Years later, I read numerous books where people said, well, our priest said the Bible was not to be taken literally. So wtf?

found lump 12-22-10—ilc—er+/pr+/her2—stage iv bone mets—chemo~lumpectomy~radiation~arimidex—March 2019-ibrance/aromasin* —Sept 2019-verzenio* —March 2020-xeloda*
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Sep 13, 2021 08:42AM AliceBastable wrote:

As someone who was raised laid-back Protestant, all we ever got was "Mary was a virgin." That was it. And, in the words of an elderly Sunday School teacher, "Mary was a pheasant girl." Maybe that's how she flew up to heaven; we should have told the Catholics!

Endometrial cancer 2010, basal cell multiples, breast cancer 2018, kidney cancer 2018. Boring. Hope it stays that way. Dx 5/2018, ILC, Left, 2cm, Stage IA, Grade 1, 1/1 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Surgery 7/11/2018 Lumpectomy: Left; Lymph node removal: Sentinel Surgery 8/8/2018 Radiation Therapy 10/29/2018 Whole-breast: Breast, Lymph nodes
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Sep 13, 2021 02:40PM tinkerbell65 wrote:

"Sep 10, 2021 03:01AM saltmarsh wrote:

I am absolutely jealous of people who have faith. It nearly always makes everything so much simpler, and nicer. And sometimes fun!"

I have had that same thought many times throughout the years. that people who had strong religious beliefs didn't have to THINK so hard to figure things out - they just went by what their religion told them. they had it easier, not having to consider many sides to an issue, their religion told them in black and white terms what was good or bad.

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Sep 13, 2021 02:43PM wrenn wrote:

Julian Barnes said "I don't believe in god but I miss him". I think that might happen with many who were indoctrinated young.

Metaplastic IDC Triple negative...Tumour is 1.5cm. BMX Aug. 16th. Chemo cancelled after one dose due to complications. Dx 7/25/2013, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/6 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Surgery 8/16/2013 Lymph node removal: Left, Sentinel, Underarm/Axillary; Mastectomy: Left, Right
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Sep 13, 2021 03:05PM tinkerbell65 wrote:

Miriandra - Yes, Immaculate Conception is not the same thing as virgin birth. Immaculate conception refers to the doctrine, that Mary, from the moment of her own conception, was not tainted by original sin, as she was already pre-determined to give birth to Christ. the discrepancy is that "original sin" is often viewed as meaning sex, so there is some question as to whether it meant that Mary was also conceived without sex. The church does not believe that mary was also the product of a virgin birth, but that when she was conceived, god prevented her soul from having the stain of original sin. Because, of course, Jesus could not be born from a womb that was tainted by sin.

My take on it is that it is all about different interpretations of words like sin and grace, and even virgin. I had read once that the word "virgin" was often used to mean young woman, and that it is very possible that the misinterpretation of a scripture was behind the whole 'virgin birth' thing.

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Sep 13, 2021 03:29PM Trishyla wrote:

Kind of a moot point, tinkerbelle, since all of it is completely made up. They can make it mean whatever suits their objectives. Which is pretty much what all religions have done since man invented them to explain that which (s)he did not understand.

Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Dx 8/30/2016, IDC, Right, 1cm, Stage IA, Grade 3, 0/1 nodes, ER-/PR-, HER2- Dx 9/6/2016, IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IIA, Grade 2, 1/2 nodes, ER+/PR+, HER2- Chemotherapy 9/28/2016 AC + T (Taxol) Surgery 4/4/2017 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left, Right; Reconstruction (left): DIEP flap; Reconstruction (right): DIEP flap Chemotherapy 8/5/2017 Xeloda (capecitabine)
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Sep 13, 2021 05:20PM - edited Sep 13, 2021 05:32PM by Miriandra

More evidence that it's all relative and made up. xD

Since Mary's parents were described as "barren", I'd assume that meant they tried sex at least a few times before resorting to prayer. But obviously dogmatics have discussed it back and forth over the centuries.

Ketubahs also likely have regional flavors. My friend loves to share that her ketubah includes the conjugal clause. She's done loads of research into medieval and renaissance Jewish traditions, and drafted it with their rabbi based on surviving extant examples. Modern Orthodox ketubas are certainly different, since they're legal documents for rabbinical courts, and modern marriages have different needs than those from 400-500 years ago.

Dx 5/31/2019, DCIS/IDC, Left, 1cm, Stage IA, 0/1 nodes, ER+ Surgery 8/14/2019 Lymph node removal: Sentinel; Mastectomy: Left
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Sep 13, 2021 05:45PM saltmarsh wrote:

I am still chuckling over here about Mary being a "pheasant girl"... I wish I could make some clever animated .gif mashing up Mary with a pheasant, but I am not that kind of talented!

My kiddo just declared he's an antitheist, and perhaps he is. He definitely is anti religion -- which kind of makes me sad, since I (perhaps naively) never saw any harm in Taoism, and I identify as an agnostic Unitarian Universalist, and I think there could be other religions that are not harmful. But he is thinking his own thoughts and making his own decisions, so he's right on track as my progeny, I guess.

Dx 3/8/2021. LCIS, ILC. Surgery 4/19/2021 mastectomy, right
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Sep 16, 2021 03:25PM tinkerbell65 wrote:

Trishyla, yes, I agree that religious dogma is made up stories. I have heard so much from the nuns in catholic school, about how you MUST believe, and how you should never doubt, I found it very oppressive. I was being taught to not think, and that goes against my nature.


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