Illinois ladies facing bc
Comments
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Susan, I could not get into my yahoo so did not read the article you mentioned. I don't know that I can explain things too well, but I'm going to try and explain how I read a couple of articles that at the time made a certain amt. of sense.
Knowing there are always exceptions to the rules, it is still felt that too much x-ray ( mammograms ) exposure before 50 is enough to cause cancer to happen all on it's own. So, a big way to avoid this is simply not to recommend them. There are other tests and guidelines which I guess they hope would pick up any abnormalities -- such as strong family history, markers, finding a lump, mole, or other abnormality yourself or while being examined by your Dr. I took it as a sort of dammed if you do or don't as for a long time the message was so strong to do your self exams and yearly mammograms that many were not being told of the actual risks of having the X-ray exposures often.
Sometimes, we can have TOO much of a good thing and statistic's seem to weigh in on 50 being better. Having said all that -- we have become so ingrained by having it drummed into us for so long that we probably will never feel comfortable for anyone about these changes. Also, it seems to be that younger and younger women are being diagnosed. I still feel that rather than change guidelines now, the answers ( some say a lot of those answers exist but are being held back ) for knowing who is at risk, why and at what age -- or of course, simply find the cure.
I may have just muddied the waters even more since I could not access the article but I could understand that their is a reluctance to harm people with too many X-ray studies. Part of the Hippocratic Oath is "First, do no harm ", so it is a fine line -- but the people making these recommendations were the ones that had all the information and numbers. It is just that people who have lived through this disease or have a close relative or really good friend just can't take that leap of faith all that easy.
It just sort of makes me wonder -- was one of my cancers actually caused by some of my years of mammograms ???? Hope I didn't make it worse,
Jackie
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Sorry, I pasted it incorrectly. I edited to reflect the article. Jackie, you are remarkably close to what was in the article. It is a mathmatical look at the benefits versus risks. For what it is worth!
Susan
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Thanks Susan. I did go back and read the article and I was fairly close. Having been a medical corpsman in the Army ( doesn't make me any sharper about these things now as it was so long ago ) I do know that probabilities always figure in -- this is why I'm reluctant to start new meds if I don't have too. I have never had a serious reaction to anything but tetanus -- but.
I know that there is lots of concern about too much and I agree -- and here comes the but -- but are they just as concerned about those who won't get enough and may end up paying a very high price. I'd hate to think that I statistically consigned someone to many years of Stage 4 txs and death So hopefully, maybe someone will finally find a way to get REAL answers to us that will help and not make us be a part of weird numbers games.
Jackie
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Happy Monday to all...Hope everyone had a wonderful weekend. I spent mine xmas shopping, wrapping and baking. I was a busy girl trying to get everything done this week. My dd graduates this week and I am sooooo happy for her...but do not look forward to moving her back with all her stuff. lol I really don't understand why they have graduation right before a holiday. Oh well....life is good.
Laura...I thought of you as I did my mailboxes with greenery this week. I really needed a forest..but Trader Joe's was second best. They did come out nice.
Rita...sorry to hear about Mary Jane's mom. I hope she is doing well. Loosing a love one around the holiday is hard. But memories will last forever. Hugs to her and her family.
Wendy...birthday girl..I see you had too much fun.lol Hope you celebrated in style. Is dh looking forward to Friday. Yep me too. winter break yeah !!!!!!!!! I am not too excited to be off.
Zap...your article was very interesting. Hope you are enjoying your grand-kids at this time of year.
Jackie...how are you doing? how are your pets? I hope you are not having too much bad weather by you. If I were you I would be inside watching TV and drinking hot chocolate.
Well I gotta run...work day today. Have a great day everyone. To the one's I missed I hope you are all doing well with your txs. Hugs to all.
Remember to be healthy...be happy and enjoy life.
BJ
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Good morning gals. I am up early today and don't really know why but that's O.K. as I have lots of things to do. This is party week. We have bowling parties Tuesday and Wednesday mornings, a Left, Center, Right group on Wednesday afternoon, our local bc group Christmas gathering Thursday night, and our golf group party on Friday night. Whew! How do you gals with small children work everything into your schedules? I know I did it once upon a time and worked full time, too but it's almost beyond my comprehension now! LOL
Today is supposed to be fairly warm for this time of year so it sounds like a good day to finish the running and errands!
I hope everyone had a good weekend and got those Christmas packages purchased!
Have a great day. I'm sure I'll check in later.
Rita
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"I do not think there is any other quality so
essential to success of any kind as the quality
of perseverance. It overcomes almost everything,
even nature."
* John D. Rockefeller0 -
bj - I am so excited for you and your dd! You must be so proud! Yes...it's going to be a lot of work! Yikes...hang in there and enjoy!
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Mom just arrived for an over nighter! She and I are going to shop and go to lunch.
Have a great day girls!
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We have all seen this before but it is one of those things that will never lose an ounce or iota of meaning as a re-run:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
A young wife sat on a sofa on a hot
humid day, drinking iced tea and
visiting with her mother. As they talked
about life, about marriage, about the
responsibilities of life and the
obligations of adulthood, the mother
clinked the ice cubes in her glass
thoughtfully and turned a clear, sober
glance upon her daughter..
'Don't forget your sisters,' she
advised, swirling the tea leaves to the
bottom of her glass. 'They'll be more
important as you get older. No
matter how much you love your husband,
no matter how much you love the
children you may have, you are still
going to need sisters. Remember to go
places with them now and then; do things
with them.'
'Remember that 'sisters' means ALL the
women...your girlfriends, your
daughters, and all your other women
relatives too. 'You'll need other women.
Women always do..'
What a funny piece of advice!' the young
woman thought. Haven't I just gotten
married? Haven't I just joined the
couple-world? I'm now a
married woman, for goodness sake! A
grownup! Surely my husband and the
family we may start will be all I need
to make my life worthwhile!'
But she listened to her mother. She kept
contact with her sisters and made more
women friends each year. As the years
tumbled by, one after another, she
gradually came to understand that her
mother really knew what she was talking
about. As time and nature work their
changes and their mysteries upon a
woman, sisters are the mainstays of her
life..
After more than 60 years of living in
this world, here is what I've learned:
THIS SAYS IT ALL:
Time passes.
Life happens.
Distance separates.
Children grow up.
Jobs come and go.
Love waxes and wanes.
Hearts break.
Parents die.
Colleagues forget favors.
Careers end.
BUT.........
Sisters are there, no matter how much
time and how many miles are between you.
A girl friend, or list sister, is never
far away.
When you have to walk that lonesome
valley and you have to walk it by
yourself, the women in your life, and on
this list, will be on the valley's rim,
cheering you on, praying for you,
pulling for you, intervening on your
behalf, and waiting with open arms at
the valley's end..
Sometimes, they will even break the
rules and walk beside you...Or come in
and carry you out. List sisters,
girlfriends, daughters, granddaughters,
daughters-in-law, sisters,
sisters-in-law, mothers, grandmothers,
aunties, nieces, cousins, and extended
family: all bless our life!
The world wouldn't be the same without
women, or this list, and neither would
I. When we began this adventure we had
no idea of the incredible joys or
sorrows that lay ahead. Nor did we know
how much we would need each other..
Every day, we need each other still.
Pass this on to all the women who help
make your life meaningful and know that you certainlly have made mine just that.Jackie
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Really interesting article regarding soy consumption I saw pass by this am. Thought I'd repost here:
Soy food intake and breast cancer survival.
Shu XO, Zheng Y, Cai H, Gu K, Chen Z, Zheng W, Lu W.
Department of Medicine, Vanderbilt Epidemiology Center, 2525 West End Ave, Ste 600, Nashville, TN 37203-1738, USA. xiao-ou.shu@vanderbilt.edu
Comment in:
CONTEXT: Soy foods are rich in isoflavones, a major group of phytoestrogens that have been hypothesized to reduce the risk of breast cancer. However, the estrogen-like effect of isoflavones and the potential interaction between isoflavones and tamoxifen have led to concern about soy food consumption among breast cancer patients. OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the association of soy food intake after diagnosis of breast cancer with total mortality and cancer recurrence. DESIGN, SETTING, AND PARTICIPANTS: The Shanghai Breast Cancer Survival Study, a large, population-based cohort study of 5042 female breast cancer survivors in China. Women aged 20 to 75 years with diagnoses between March 2002 and April 2006 were recruited and followed up through June 2009. Information on cancer diagnosis and treatment, lifestyle exposures after cancer diagnosis, and disease progression was collected at approximately 6 months after cancer diagnosis and was reassessed at 3 follow-up interviews conducted at 18, 36, and 60 months after diagnosis. Annual record linkage with the Shanghai Vital Statistics Registry database was carried out to obtain survival information for participants who were lost to follow-up. Medical charts were reviewed to verify disease and treatment information. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Total mortality and breast cancer recurrence or breast cancer-related deaths. Cox regression analysis was carried out with adjustment for known clinical predictors and other lifestyle factors. Soy food intake was treated as a time-dependent variable. RESULTS: During the median follow-up of 3.9 years (range, 0.5-6.2 years), 444 deaths and 534 recurrences or breast cancer-related deaths were documented in 5033 surgically treated breast cancer patients. Soy food intake, as measured by either soy protein or soy isoflavone intake, was inversely associated with mortality and recurrence. The hazard ratio associated with the highest quartile of soy protein intake was 0.71 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.54-0.92) for total mortality and 0.68 (95% CI, 0.54-0.87) for recurrence compared with the lowest quartile of intake. The multivariate-adjusted 4-year mortality rates were 10.3% and 7.4%, and the 4-year recurrence rates were 11.2% and 8.0%, respectively, for women in the lowest and highest quartiles of soy protein intake. The inverse association was evident among women with either estrogen receptor-positive or -negative breast cancer and was present in both users and nonusers of tamoxifen. CONCLUSION: Among women with breast cancer, soy food consumption was significantly associated with decreased risk of death and recurrence.
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Okay, I know I should know this but I do not. What is the difference between a recurrence and spread of cancer? I am looking at the alcohol news about the stats about a recurrence. Obviously I welcome neither but what is the diffrerence? I am am thinking a recurrence is breast cancer again in the breast while a spread is BC moving to an organ. Am I right about this? This is scary stuff. I love my wine but maybe I need to give it up as I gave up my beloved cigarettes neary 30 years ago. Thanks!
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Hi Susan,
A recurrence can be local, as in the breast, or it can be distant, as in an organ. We usually say local recurrence when it is in the breast or lymph nodes, and distant recurrence, or metastasis when it is anywhere else. I hope that helps, and I agree, it's scary stuff. I still enjoy a glass of wine, but I usually have one once a week, like Saturday night. I'm not giving that up, and my oncologist agrees it is okay.
On a lighter note, I just love your new hair cut. It's elegavt, and very sophisticated!
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One of the sanest, surest, and most generous joys of life comes from being happy over the good fortune of others.
- Robert A. Heinlein0 -
I've pretty much given up most alcoholic beverages but I'll cheat and have a few drinks at regular celebrations. I must have read the same stats as you, Susan! LOL I really love white wine so every so often I have a glass but overall I don't really miss it that much. I know that alot of you think that everything's O.K. in moderation and you're probably right but the alcohol is something that I can give up without too many problems and it tastes so much better when I do cheat and have a few drinks. I think it's really a large combination of things that contribute to a cancer diagnosis and it's impossible to stay away from then all, so I guess each of us just has to pick and choose the things that she can easily give up and still maintain the type of life she wishes to have.
Well I need to get moving. It's Christmas at the bowling alley today. Everyone brings treats and we graze the entire time we bowl. Everyone also brings a little present and when you get your first strike you get to pick one. There's always presents left at the end of the day for anyone who didn't get a strike!
Then I'm off to do a few more errands and then I have Yoga tonight. Of all the things I've changed in my life, I think the Yoga has been one of the more effective.
Gotta run! Have a good day. I'll check back later.
Rita
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So warm yesterday, so chilly today. Knew it was coming so that makes it a little better. Susan, I think the whole thing is to be moderate with what you do -- and I do think food not loaded down with herbicides, pesticides, dyes and anything not originally in the food is the best way to go. That won't always be real feasible -- so the best thing you can do is be moderate -- with whatever you eat and drink.
Busy day today....Office Xmas party tonight. I'll be on the run most of the day. See you all later.
Jackie
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Morning! Hey...it was 19 at 5:30am and now it's 14???? It's going the wrong way! It is really cold out!
Not much going around around here I see....the thing about alcohol...okay, it's not really good for anything and my onc says it makes blood vessels grow and multiply, which gives any stray cancer cells new avenues to travel. He too is quite alright with moderate alcohol consumption - but not more than 3 glasses of wine, and he prefers it to be red wine, if you are going to drink at all. So I went down to 2, but like you Rita, I do love white wine, esp. in the summer while sitting and deck and grilling. Beer is gone. I did like beer. I had my birthday martini's and since my little headache of Sunday monring ya know? I don't need those anymore either. So...I think a glass or 2 of wine is enough for me. We really don't know what made our bodies produce cancer cells (or turn them on if you believe that theory) so....????? I live my life, have my glass of wine once in a while, cut down on white sugar/flour, eat a well-balanced, low fat low chol diet and hope for the best. But I did that in the first place and look what happened. Maybe it was because my parents smoked. Maybe it was that I grew up in a big city. Maybe it was the drinks in college. Maybe it came from my Dad who had bc (but in his 80's and I am BRCA neg). So....who the heck knows! Wish they would make up their minds about soy tho! What are you guys doing about that one? Eat it? Don't eat it?
Susan....WHAT new hair style????? I really couldn't tell in the party pictures!
Gotta cut this short as my gym closes today and I went to say good bye to everyone and I have my orientation at the new place in a few minutes. I got a good report from the eye doc yesterday so I can resume full actitivites after Wednesday and I can go back to reading as much as I want today. YAY!!!!!! Stephen King -----here I come!
Stay warm!
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Ooooops! Make that 3 glasses of wine a WEEK...not a day!!!!
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Morning girls!
Mom is still here - dh is whipping up some omelettes and english muffins. Yum!
It is reeeeeeeeeeeeeally cold out today. I wish I could hibernate, but I have a DENTIST APPT. OUCHY WOW WOW...I hate going there, but I have a couple of fillings that are slightly cracked. In an effort to avoid a more painful, costly situation I need to have them resurfaced. Also...I have met my dental deductible - so the timing is right.
Hope you're all staying warm.
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OK...after I posted I read that news article from yesterday...so even moderate drinking MAY increase your risk of reoccurance? Well, girls...how do you weigh on this now? The info from my onc was 3 years ago. Now I'm thinking that no drinking again is the best route.
So girls....Yay or Nay on Drinking? And also for those of you hormone +, Yay or Nay on Soy?
Yes Laura it is cooooooooold! It's dropped down to 13 now....
(loved my new gym...not as social and it is co-ed, but they have little tv's on all the cardio equipment...with CABLE! Nothing like walking on the treadmill for 1/2 hour while watching Foodnetwork!
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Hi ladies:
Well I can only speak for me about the alcohol and that is good because I do drink wine (white) and not once or twice a week. You ladies who drink one or two glasses a week cannot be doing a thing wrong. I love my glass of wine as I make the dinner and often have more than just the one. It is a habit and one I am rather fond of. I called the nutritionist doctor with the LIveStrong group I belong to and she said that I should cut it out! She said that alcohol is to breast cancer as cigarettes are to lung cancer. I said what about one drink/day and she said, "Do you think one cigarette a day is good?" Well that shut me up. This is just for me, however, as I just cannot see an occasional drink as harmful, so enjoy ladies. This article (on BC.org) spooked me out and I just know I must do whatever I can to lessen the incidence. I just hope I haven't harmed myself already.
Then again, maybe all those annual mammograms I had that never showed cancer in the first place, was what did me in. Only kidding. I am optimistic about this and let's face it. You all are thin and can stand to intake some calories. Empty calories are doing nothing for me. So tonight is water with some lemon. How boring!
Thank you for participating in the discussion and cheers!
Susan
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Got a few while I sip a coffee....and too much of that is not a good thing either. I will on occasion have some wine or a beer and I do use Silk Soy milk. Most Dr's if they have kept up at all will tell you that milk is for babies....and not just any milk or formula but breast milk. Adults do not benefit from drinking milk -- and in fact with the way it is produced even young children gain very little. Sad fact but true. So, I try to stay as varied as my grocery budget will allow ( a problem now and then ) wash all veggies as well as you can -- cook gently -- watch out for red meats and don't char them. If using hamburger -- get turkey burger instead and you can scramble hamburger and boil it in water. I do it a lot for chili etc. You can now get turkey bacon etc. so you can avoid a bit of the red meat if you wish. It took me very little time to get used to it.
As well, I do eat Irish Oatmeal ( much better for you ) and it makes a lot more so don't let the $6.99 a can cause apoplexy. Since I only use a moderate amt. of milk I use Silk Soy and one big benefit is that it lasts far longer in your fridge than "regular" milk. Eating as many raw, as in vegetables, food as you can is best for your system over-all and a boost to digestion. They are good for fiber in the diet. Though it is a hard thing to do if not used to it, water is truly the ULTIMATE drink. If you have never read the book " You Are Not Sick, You Are Just Thirsty" I highly recommend it. I also only eat brown eggs, organic, range fed, when I can get them, but definitely brown. I'm not a fanatic....but Susan said something which rings true....you can put insult and injury to your body only so many times before the rebellion comes.
Well, breaks over....big mouth is moving on. I say almost anything is ok if you use common sense and try to limit some things -- if it gets so touchy that we can no longer have a glass or two of wine sadly we are probably going to have a problem anyway if that is all it takes to be the catalyst. O forgot -- every trip to the store....I re-read everything because they sneak things in and out.... so watch our for that.
Jackie
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Oh, Jackie, this is so funny. People who know me very well know I am a milk nut. I just love milk and crave it. So another drink of choice hits the dust.
This obsessive streak on my part will end tomorrow as I am back to work with less time to think. I do have to tell you that I called the LIvestrong facilitator AGAIN and asked about biosophates (or whatever they are called) to prevent mets to bone. Fortunately she likes me and is very patient, and even proud of me for asking these questions. She said that all this information is "evolving" and that was her word, and to give my doctor some time to look over all the studies. I do not see my oncologist on a regular basis and so I am making an appointment with him in February.
I DO NOT DRINK, EAT OR INHALE SOY! I am wondering. however, if I should as I read that Asian women have less BC as they consume soy at an early age. I give up!
Susan
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Hi everyone - well, I know I'm barely ever here & am out of touch most of the time.. but I felt the need to come & let you guys know that I have a recurrence.
I went for my 6 month exam & doc found a little bump in my skin on my left foob. Turns out to be cancer. Can't believe it's back, after only 17 months!! I don't have many details yet - I'll be having some scans & meet with the onco & also awaiting the full path report.
Anyway - it just wouldn't have felt right to not come here & let you guys know.
I'm sure I'll be on this site a lot more now, looking for information & stuff - so I hope you won't mind me hanging around again a little bit.
Take care... P Juliet
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Oh Juliet,
I do not know what to say, except oh shit. I am sorry you have to face this again.
Please keep us posted and I will be thinking of you.
Lisa
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Julie,
Thinking of you and praying for you. This is a setback, but you will prevail. I kmow you will.
Susan
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Juliet...OMG please do post often and remember we are here for you.Sending you a big hug and praying that all goes well. Remember that Illinois Ladies are tough, Hang in there.
BJ
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busters mom
thinking of you...............gosh darn it................ GOOD LUCK, they can do so much these days...........all we can do is try to learn what we can and so forth....to try to eat exercise and all that good stuff. hugs to you, your buster and hubby. 8-)
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zap, how about almond or rice milk?
i bought some but you can make it in vitamix or blendtec, i hope to someday.....got the bags for it, you can also get them like at ace hardware i saw some filter bags.
saw it done on utube.....too.
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Juliet...thinking of you. You know we're all here for you, and sending hugs your way.
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY CAROL BERRY( berrypatch). I hope you have a wonderful birthday filled with lots of love and good wishes. Have a great day..enjoy!!!
BJ
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Juliet...Sending positive vibes your way. Hang in there and stay strong.
navy
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