Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
Comments
-
I just started reading this section--it's fascinating and wondrous that everyone is so open-minded and all-inclusive! My experience with church, organized religion and God ended in 1970 when my mom died of bc 6 years after being diagnosed. I never went back to church, I knew all the people telling me "It's G-d's will", etc. were really being duped. I have come to believe many years later that whatever helps us get through this and any other crises in our lives is whatever works for you. I still do not believe in any religion or higher power, but I have faith in medicine, the healing power of love and friendship, the absolute need for laughter and a sense of humor, and also the right of anyone to believe whatever they need to to get through bc. I have had many people offer their prayers and I say "Thanks!". I started out with a diagnosis of IDC, with another location undiagnosed. Fearing two cancer sites, a mastectomy, chemotherapy and radiation. Possibly worse to come. I am now, a mere four weeks later (first bx 7/3/08), done with my lumpectomy, negative lymph nodes, clean margins, and facing radiation therapy with joy. Did the prayers help? Who knows? I believe finding the right radiologist, the right surgeon, anesthesiologist, having a loving and funny husband ("I know you have cancer, but what about me?") friends who care and call and bring food, sisters (in blood and in life ) who worry more than I do, all have contributed to what I consider a miracle. It's probably Stage 1, treatable(which is what I told my two sons, age 18 and 25, right off the bat) and I'm sitting here with the cancer cut out and raring to go. I believe in positive thinking (they told my mom she had 6 months and she lived 6 more years!) , and living every day to the fullest. My dad's motto was "carpe diem", seize the day, and I will. Too much fun out there to be had. I always wondered when people said they were praying for children with terminal illnesses; what about the children whose parents didn't pray? They deserve to be healed too. Dudess(love the name!), keep on believing whatever you need to.
Libby
0 -
I just noticed that the the moving beyond cancer forum has a "respectfully republican conversation."
Maybe we can add "respectful" to our title too. It's seems so many people have drifted away - maybe because we had to spend so much time defending ourselves. We shouldn't HAVE to defend ourselves.
So how are you guys doing? I miss you.
As for me, all my time has been spent dealing with aging, and in one case "declining" parents (94 & 96). It's exhausting because they live on the opposite coast and spending a month in a hotel is not cheap. But I'm an only child, so there is no one left to help.
susan
0 -
Hi, Susan. I, too, am dealing with aging mom. In my case I have other siblings who are stepping in, knowing I can't right now because I am doing my radiation treatments but it is all very hard to deal with. We are spread out all over and sometimes it works out that someone can take time from work and get to her when she really needs help but sometimes all we can do is counsel over the phone. The stress from that makes it hard to focus on other things. Hang in there.
0 -
Anyone else bothered by all the religious references during the recent convention?
0 -
I am a Theravada Buddhist and like my Zen friend above, I am an atheist. Buddhism is probably the only "religion" in the world that does not have a Creator God or Creation Story. When I was first diagnosed and to this day I regularly do metta (loving kindness) meditation. It is a form of meditation that is very similar to prayer. Instead of praying to a deity, one just says some simple word for oneself. These are the words that I use and perhaps they will be helpful to others.
May I be well and happy
May I be safe and free from harm
May I be free from anger and ill will
May I be at peace
May my heart be filled with loving kindness.
0 -
Sushanna1,
Yes, it makes me flippin' nuts that candidates have to evince some kind of religious allegiance to ever even be considered on the ticket. Their "churchiness" may have been a fairly minor--or even nonexistent--aspect of their life up until they start harboring serious political aspirations, but once that course is set, you can be sure they start attending some church or other on a regular basis, and are sure to rake in the photo opportunities every Sunday morning.
I don't think a righteous atheist would ever be able to attract funds or backing--regardless of how virtuous a person they were or how brilliant a politician--unless they kowtow to the God thing. I'm sure there are such people hidden away in small arenas, but they're never going to run for President. Cripes! You can't even admit to believing that evolution makes a lot of sense or that the Bible is full of bunk. Political suicide.
There's supposed to be separation of church and state here. Ha!
Sandra
0 -
Hi, ladies!
I haven't been logging in, and I've been trying to stay away from the BC boards for a while. I thought our thread was dead!
Notself, I am familiar with the meditation you use. We have used in our "church worship" before. Unitarian - we have quite a few atheists, and our minister has done a seven week study group on Buddhism. I was unable to attend.... but I've heard it was very good.
It seems as though this board is becoming more and more religious. I was just reading on the mets forum that someone said "this group is a prayer machine" and that's why I've been staying away. I've been spending time on Dave's Garden, where there is a sustainability group. And, I've been paying more attention to the conventions than is healthy, probably. Sarah Palin scares the crap out of me. Here's a link to the address she gave the graduating class of her high school in June.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html
If people can't remember what it was they didn't like about the last eight years, then we're just too stupid to have a democracy.
0 -
I just want to share this with U, when I was hurting and needing to call out to someone to help me through this deadly thing I,m glad I had my God and my religion to get me through it all, what source will U call out to help U? I will pray for U anyway, and ask God to Bless U, try HIM, I,m now 15 yrs cancer FREE, thank GOD. msphil
0 -
Annalemma:
Sarah Palin scares the crap out of me too, and the gushing approval of her from the religious right scares me even more. What is up with the people of this country? I guess this is what happens to the electorate when we short change public education. We are the laughing stock of Europe.
Sandra
0 -
I was saying the same thing myself, Sandra. It has to be the educational system. Germany and Canada are as well baffled. When the U.S. sneezes, Canada gets pneumonia so they are watching closely to this election. It is as if the people have been brainwashed to believe the propaganda by a fascist government. Scary indeed. Let's hope the young people step up to the plate. I think they realize how much damage has been done and what it is going to cost them.
0 -
MsPhil, we do the best we can and that is enough. There is a peacefulness within that can carry a person through the roughest times. It is how well you know yourself, accept your lot in life and be thankful for what has gone right in our life. For some that can take a lifetime. It takes great courage to look beyond religion and see the possibilities.
0 -
Add me to the list of people who are baffled and terrified by Sarah Palin. I just hope that the increased scrutiny she'll receive as the VP nominee - the fact that she actually did support the "bridge to nowhere" until it was clear it was dead, the book-banning attempt, etc. etc. - will cause some of the people who now find her so intriguing to rethink.
guitarGrl and collector, I've been dealing with aging parents with health problems, too. They're still doing reasonably OK, but I was taken aback to learn that my mother has macular degeneration and is limited in her ability to drive. (As an indication of how close-mouthed my family is, this has been going on for several years, and I only just now learned of it as an aside when I was having dinner with them the night before my father's heart surgery . . . )
Libby, Lynn, notself . . . I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
Linda
0 -
msphil,
Why would you think that God helped you get through breast cancer and has kept you cancer-free for 15 years if he (or she) allowed you to get breast cancer and go through all the pain and hurt to begin with? Was it that he (or she) was teaching you a lesson or testing your faith? If so, I can think of lots of better ways to do that, and frankly I want no part of a God who would do that - it seems pretty cruel to give someone cancer just to test their faith.
I don't mean to offend you or challenge your faith. I am simply trying to point out that there are different ways to view this and many of us get on just fine without sharing your beliefs. I have no problem with you or others having faith but please don't expect everyone else to feel the same way. This thread is for those who are atheists; you have posted a couple of times now trying to tell us that we are wrong; that's offensive and simply not welcome. Personally I think you are wrong in what you believe but I don't post on any of the religious threads sharing my thoughts about this. Please provide us the same courtesy.
0 -
Beesie. Well said.
0 -
Lewing - the hardest thing I had to do was to take the car away from my father when his macular degeneration got too bad. Well that and the fact that he hadn't had any service on the car in over 7 years - had to get some junker place to haul it away!
Sarah Palin - oh don't get me started. Even Bush didn't want to make me leave the country - if she got in ... Someone I was with last night came up with the line "if she is elected, I'm going to invest in a coat hanger factory." A sick joke for sure, but we CANNOT let the religious right send us back into the dark ages.
Forget walking for a cure - we will be walking to save our atheistic souls. msphil almost makes me want to start raiding the prayer and Palin threads, but that would be sinking to their level. Amazing how those of us who are "godless" are more considerate than those who blindly worship.
susan
0 -
I agree with Beesie and others who wonder what kind of god gives deadly cancer as some kind of test? A dental assistant told me god gave me cancer so that I would get closer to HIM. She also explained that if I didn't accept Jesus as my personal savior, I was definitely going to hell. It scares me when people think like that, expecially those who proport to know what god does and doesn't want. Haven't terrorists, crusaders, Inquisitioners, the Klan do all they do in the name of whatever god they worship? Sarah Palin frightened me as well She's perky and popular but her religious beliefs are going to color her decisions in a country where church and state are supposed to be separate.
When people tell me that they're praying for me, I thank them. Like my grandmother used to say, "It couldn't hurt" unless they send me a message that they're trying to save me from myself
0 -
Hi girls, try not to get to upset. I noticed in the last election that the "Bible Belt", that normally votes democratic, voted republican because of the abortion issue. First of all, this is the law of the land, and I don't care if you elect the Pope president, that law won't change. So this is just phony. I find this trend scary. I had a nice Catholic friend who was told by another Catholic that she could not receive communion if she voted democratic???? What kind of crap is this?
The LAST place we need religious interference is in an election. I hate this and don't know what to do about it.
Hugs to all, and a big HURRAH for freedom to believe whatever you choose, or nothing at all.
Shirlann
0 -
Beesie--really wonderful post to msphil. i didn't really feel up to taking her on. I was glad someone did.
The thing about religiosity is that it provides quick, pat answers to a lot of very perplexing, difficult questions, so that people don't have to think or study or try to understand them. They "know" the answer without having to think about it at all , and they can feel superior to the faithless (don't you hate that word?), and quote some corny biblical verse, and that's that. Think how much easier it is to memorize a bunch of loony scripture from one small book, than to read and absorb and analyze many, many, many books over a lifetime of reading and inquiry.
It takes a fair amount of time and concentration and reading and thinking to even begin to understand scientific concepts like "the big bang," or "natural selection," "survival of the fittest," or (Cripes!) "relativity." Most people in this country are NOT at all motivated to do this. Their favorite part of school was recess.
Some historical perspective might be helpful at this point: this country was originally settled in the 1700s by people who were escaping religious or political persecution, or debtor's prison, criminal prosecution or angry spouses, etc. They were also escaping the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment. We glorify this heritage, but really, our early forbearers were not all exactly the creme d' la creme, and many of them nursed a rather belligerent anti-intellectualism and disdain for European culture that remains as an undercurrent even today. Remember Adlai Stevenson's bid for the presidency? (ok, I am older than dirt) Never had a chance. No one knew what he was talking about. We are NOT an educated people for the most part and we do not respect learning.
I am only now (age 66) starting to realize to what degree I always have allowed myself to be intimidated by religious people and accorded them a respect that was certainly neither returned nor deserved. I now feel guilty about this because clearly it is that kind of timidity that has allowed these jerks to take over our society. There was a brief glimmer of hope for free-thinkers in the 60s (when strangely enough we had a Catholic president), but each succeeding decade things have gotten steadily worse. I am determined to be more robust and confrontational in my individual dealings with the religious right (including my own scary family), and, of course, that means I need to be much better educated than I presently am and more up to date with the arguments against creationism, against the seductions of fascism, etc etc. I think we all need to come together into a kind of "salon" society in which we actively train and support each other for these kind of confrontations. Otherwise all is lost to the mega-churches, and all pretense of idealizing the separation between church and state will simply disappear.
0 -
Sandra,
Like you, I used to be far more polite and less confrontational. I think that our unwillingness to speak up lest we offend or make someone uncomfortable has contributed to the mess we are in today. Many of these people believe that their way is the only way. They never were and never will be tolerant of different beliefs or particularly the lack of belief. It worries me. I don't pick fights but I do try to make my beliefs known. However, I do not get involved in discussions. You cannot have a rational discussion with someone whose arguments are based on faith, i.e. an "expert" higher authority.
0 -
Sushanna,
You make a good point: you really can't negotiate with terrorists.
Sandra
0 -
The next supreme court judge chosen will unbalance the scale, if I understand the news correctly. One vote could reverse Roe vs Wade; of course, McCain's choice will be a republican and Obama's a democratic nominee.
0 -
Hi all!
For what it's worth, I've been struggling with the concept of religious arguments for 40 years. I mean, what's to argue about? Personal beliefs are exactly that! Personal.
When people offer prayers, they are offering a gift. When people accept, they are being gracious or well-mannered. There's no binding agreement!
When people start 'warning' others, counting the 'souls saved' on the weekend etc, I shut off.
All that stuff, and the accusations about the nature or intentions of god, any god, (and this is common to most faiths/denominations, and lack thereof), does not spring from the spiritual base, but from a deep need to express something completely void of true, benign spirit. Call it politics and power, I think. Study it long enough and this is what it smells and looks like. And people can always find strength ( and breathtaking weakness!) in numbers.
I pray for people because I love them and I care deeply that they have peace. I have never needed them to share my personal beliefs.
I get freaked out by the developing trends in American politics, and I am an Australian!!
Stay strong in the bc fight, girls! XX
PS sorry about the formatting! Couldn't edit it..grrr
0 -
Hi everyone on this thread,
I kept seeing the title of this thread from the index page and I decided to take a peek to see what was being said here. I've spent my latest bout of insomnia reading all the pages.
Someone asked earlier how to gracefully decline sending up prayers for someone, and I hope I have a suggestion some of you lovely ladies might find helpful. Send pink light instead. I took an online class two years for feng shui. The book was Feng Shui Your Life by Jayme Barrett. Pink light is a combination of prayer, meditation, creative visualization.
To quote rather lengthily from her book:
- Close your eyes. Rub the center of your chest and imagine a pink rose within your heart. ...
- Visualize pink energy or light coming from your heart area through your hands to the person or situation. Imagine that a pink cloud envelopes them, and they send it back to you. ...
- Envision the situation exactly as you want it to occur with everyone smiling; keep wrapping the whole scene with pink light from your heart.
- Say to yourself, "I'm sending pink light to this person or situation. May they be blessed with love and sweetness. I'm so grateful that this situation (meeting, phone call, etc) has worked out in the best way possible." You can continue to say your own words. The more specific you are the better.
This concept really resonates with me. It seems to me that it would be a concept palatable to people of all beliefs. Maybe someone here will find it objectionable somehow, but I hope for some this idea would be helpful. I practice pink light every day throughout the day. It's the one thing that consistently stays in my comfort zone.As for my own beliefs, I'm not even sure how to characterize myself. I think 'ambivalent Christian' fits the bill. As a kid, I went to a methodist church. Absolutely despised it, mainly because I had to put on patent leather shoes, a frilly dress and bows in my hair. Blech! And besides, it seemed like everyone who went there was a hypocrite. I took a religion class in high school and learned the basic tenets of all the religions. I decided I was agnostic.
That served me well until my marriage was unravelling. I encountered many devoutly christian women in a forum for saving marriages. At first I gagged. Then I allowed them to comfort me. Then 9/11 happened. Oddly enough, there was an interview of a teenager talking about the koran and what it says that got me to realize, hey, I probably couldn't answer any questions about the teachings of the bible. I think I'd like Christianity a whole lot better if it had a different book to go with it! lol John the Baptist lost his head and Daniel was fed to the lions. Oh yes, sign me up for some of that. So now I'm informed. I don't want to burn in hell for eternity, so I've done enough of what the good book instructs to avoid that, but that's as far as I can run with it.
Perhaps I'm a cafeteria christian. I pick and choose what I can swallow. ...but that's not how it's supposed to work. Anyway, hope I haven't offended anyone. Just wanted to offer the pink light concept and share the status of my own beliefs. just my opinions. your mileage may vary
0 -
I am an athiest. I had a sectional mastectomy and agreed to participate in a trial to determine if I MUST have chemo or not. I have a 20% chance because my diseased cells weren't the wandering kind, or have other characteristics that make it likely to have a relapse. I don't have all the information memorized because I just signed the permission slip yesterday.
I am SOooooooooooo tired of all the jeebus, gawd and prayer talk from everyone, especially the health care professionals. This is a serious physical condition that needs some serious scientifically proven medical procedures.
Hearing all that prayer crap makes me distrustful of some of the medical staff.
Having this cancer is scary enough, but thinking that the sky fairy is going to fix you all up is insane.
I live alone in a gov't bldg on a really low limited income. I have no family left except a grown son who is always travelling (he's a musician). So without any personal support system this is a really tough and depressing journey. I'm going to be bald, that is one thing that is really scaring me. I'm overweight and look horrible in a hat and all I do is cry.
When you remove the mythical characters out of the picture you can spend more time on the reality of this disease and what can actually be done to save our lives and dignity.
0 -
destefano,
So sorry to hear about your breast cancer and about your having to put up with religiosity on the part of your health care professionals! That would freak me out too! It is not very professional. Sheesh!
I am receiving care through a Catholic hospital system, and I had some real concerns about that, but actually not one staff person has ever made any kind of religious comment or solicitation to me. Perhaps they actually look at the forms you fill out stating your religious preferences? This particular hospital (St. Joseph's in Orange, Calif) has all these rewards for nursing excellence and professional standards, so perhaps the staff are trained to pay particular attention to patient's stated preferences or beliefs?? I have always been treated with respect by everyone there.
It sounds like you could benefit from some kind of cancer support group that you go to since you are feeling so alone, but unfortunately an awful lot of these seem to drag Jesus into the picture too. Well, at least you have us!
The baldness thing is tough for everyone. I cried and cried too, and I am not a hat and scarf person either, and hate wearing them even more now because it tags you as a "cancer patient." You will need to get some decent, comfortable wigs (see the cute one I have), and if you can't afford them, I understand the American Cancer Society can provide you with some free loaners.
What you are going through now is tough, but I detect a lot of moxy and know you have what it takes to get through this. Good Luck!
0 -
Hey, ladies!!! Boy, oh, boy, you think the thread has passed on and suddenly there's new life - Praise Jeebus !!!
I've been caught up on a forum with my church (Unitarian, atheists welcome) and I've been so frustrated at the complacency. Everybody is so wrapped up in making sure not to say anything offensive or derogatory, that they're tripping over each other. AARRGH!!! In the meantime, the far right ultra conservatives are rushing with their banner - drill now! no choice! Pray for the pipeline! Remember the Who? Yesterday i got a link to an old video of them doing a live performance of "We Won't Get Fooled Again" I used to listen to the Who some (I was more of a folk type) but I never paid enough attention to the words. It's a rallying cry! I'm thinking about making a banner that will stretch all the way across my front yard. It will say DON'T GET FOOLED AGAIN - OBAMA 08!
I've been trying to stay away from the cancer sites until I have to get scans again, it tends to set me to worrying. I wish I could follow this thread without having to log on.
Two of my sons have commented on my screen name (I use it other places) and thought it was some kind of porn - Anal Emma - minds in the gutter. Analemma is the pattern made by the sun if its position is plotted, or photographed, at the same time of day for a full year. It makes a figure eight, with the low part winter solstice, intersections are equinoxes, and the high point summer solstice. That's what my picture is.
0 -
Hahahahahahhaha and LOL to boot! I thought the pic was a bowling pin!!!!!! Who's anal now?
0 -
Thanks for explaining "Analemma"--though to be honest, I totally missed the "anal" part of it too, tending to read it as: Ana Lemma. Just figured it was a nickname or something. Too funny. I also didn't pay much attention to the "bowling pin"--thought it was a pattern that had something to do with your pottery. Really, I am not a very observant sort.
I have had a couple of go-rounds with friends lately regarding Sarah Palin--people whom I thought had a lot more sense. They think her election will be a victory for women? Well, what should I expect? I live in Orange County. Many people here spout liberal ideals, but scratch beneath the surface very far and it's clear their chief concern is having enough gas for their mega-guzzlers. I'm really fed up. I guess my banner would read: ENOUGH ALREADY--WE NEED A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT IN 08 (will that fit?) I'm still grieving over Hillary if truth be told.
0 -
Ok. I was raised Catholic and walked away in my teens. Technically they would refer to me as a non practicing Catholic. I believe there is a higher power. If you want to refer to it as God be my guest. If you say that you pray for me, I thank you. That is a caring thing to do. However, running back to Bible and the safety of religious beliefs seems hypocritical to me. For me. And I ask others to pray for Jacqueline in the hospital because she knows that other people care. I opened a thread under Prayers and Spiritual Inspiration but very few people have found it.
0 -
Ladies , I have been reading some of your post even though I am very much a believer in God, and I cannot imagine going through this without him by my side, he did not let me get cancer he says he will be there for me when I need him and he is, because my cancer was big and scary and I made it through and at surgery it was gone, but what msphil was doing is just letting you know how she feels about religion just like you guys are, and everyone has there own opinion and they sure are entitled to it, I'm sure she meant no harm and I sure don't, I love to hear how other people feel about their beliefs
Thanks Tina
0
