Is anyone else an atheist with BC besides me?
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I need to vent.
I am so tired of being told that "God wouldn't give me something I couldn't handle" and that people are praying for me. I find it truly offensive that my physical, genetic aberration is some kind of test and that other people's praying can help me. I don't have a problem with people telling me I am in their thoughts because that just means they care, but placing my wellbeing in the hands of some fantasy omnipotent being? How about my brilliant surgeons? How about the inventor of the MRI? How about the pharmaceutical company that manufactures the meds I take?
A few days ago, I bumped into a woman I know, an alternative hippy type (not passing judgment - if more people were like that, the world would be a better place) and she asked me to write my name on a piece of paper so she could meditate on it and send me healing vibes. While I find that utterly laughable, I obliged because it was her way of dealing with my cancer, and she really felt she could help. She told me that in addition to modern medicine, we need love.
The difference between these two attitudes, as far as I can see, is that the God-botherers honestly think they can ask some higher power to intervene, to retract the disease that he has inflicted me with, that if I am *good* enough then I will be saved, whereas the healing hippy attitude is that by loving me, they can try to send me good stuff to help the medicine do its job. Both are a crock, as far as I am concerned, but I know which one I'd rather put up with!
My apologies for introducing myself on this thread with anger. Actually, it's more hurt that some people wonder if I deserve this disease. And it makes me angry.
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Lahela - I ranted about the same thing a couple of weeks ago. I especially dislike the praying for you from people who.know I am an atheist. It is almost a challenge - "I am praying for you and if you get better it will be because I am right. If you don't, then it is because you are a non-believer." It is so self-serving.
The statement about God not giving us more than we can handle is especially irksome because inherent in that is a denial of our right to lament our circumstances and it is so cliche. It rolls of their tongue like a statement about the weather.
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People who say their god won't give them more than they can handle should pay attention to world affairs. They should try telling that smug bromide to a child who is starving or is dying of wounds from war. I realize people need the comfort of religion but does it have to shut down the logic sections of their brains? Why don't they just say that they are sorry that one is dealing with the stress of cancer and ask if they can pull weeds or vacuum the house to help? Now that would be nice.
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I am a devout Christian. The way faith comforts us is that we believe that God will bring good out of our cancer. We count on God to meet certain needs that will help us get through. So, the same comfort could be yours by accepting that somehow this will work out for the best for you. Also, realize that there are certain rescues or support that will come along, that we call miracles, but you will see as just good luck. So, just believe that good can come from this and good things will come your way to help get you through.
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Ok, I am officially repulsed.
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kimweir - Whatever gets you through the night is all right with me as the old song goes.
I am excited that with all the Christian boards on this website you chose to make your profession of faith on this Atheist board. That one act indicating that you have small seeds of doubt is the beginning of an amazing journey for you. You will find such peace as you begin to turn away from childhood superstitions and that opiate of the masses, religion. It takes courage to open your mind to critical thinking and question all that you have based your life on.
I wrote the following several years ago -
No heaven.
No hell.
No angels sitting on clouds playing harps saving my place.
No pitchfork tailed demon who will own my soul forever.
No reward in the afterlife.
No scripted justification for blessings or curses; for decisions of life or death; for being born a scion of a rich man in America or an orphan forced to pick the garbage dumps in a suburb of Rio.
I don't believe in transubstantiation, predestination, being born again, the ability to speak in tongues, the mysoginistic rules of god/men.
I have read the bible several times and gone to many classes. I have chanted. I have concentrated on my third eye.
I have searched for peace and found it when I stopped searching. I believe in birth and death and the joy between the two.
I want to share it with you to let you know that the path you are embarking on will lead you to a new and wonderful perspective on life. I am sure you will find many people on this board who are willing to help you explore it.
.
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Brigadoon
Picture a whole row of those thumbs up.
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thumbs up for Brigadoon. I note that is the one and only posting made by kmweir.0 -
Brigadoon, Wonderful post.
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Brigadoon, I wish this forum had a like button!
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kmweir...what on earth makes you think we don't already know how to navigate our lives? And why on earth would you want to denigrate your faith by comparing it to luck? I certainly don't hope for luck. I have empowerment and self fulfillment. I imagine that we all in this thread have similar deep understanding of our lives and our cancer. Brigadoon is absolutely right, you clearly have a vacuous understanding if the deeper complexities. Religion isn't serving you well. Good luck on your journey to grappling with that.
Brigadoon, I want to grow up to be like you.
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Hi Notself - have not been here much - but, want to say thanks for your quotes and your wishes for a boring mammo for me a few posts back, and it was.
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Flannelette - HaPpY DaNcE!
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flannelette,
Boring is always wonderful. So glad that you are enjoying some boredom.
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Just need to vent a little.
Everyone in my family is uber-religious, and all day long with their god talk. I love them, but get so tired of it. Why can't we have a conversation without bringing up a mythical being? They try to wedge it in everywhere. I am afraid that one of these days I am going to just- explode and start screaming.
Gives me such a headache. o_0
Anyhow- hope you all had a great 4th of July and summer is being kind to you!
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JWoo - I sometimes wonder how Christian's interpret Matthew 6.5. It seems they are not happy unless they are evangelizing. I don't care what they believe but stop trying to A. Make me believe it or B. Impress me with your devotion. It does get old.
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Brigadoon, I use Matthew 6.5 whenever I meet someone who tries to impress me with their devotion. Truly devout people tend to be quiet about it and live a life of service. Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter come to mind as examples of quiet and productive Christians. They let their actions do the preaching.
Matthew 6: 5-8 ...5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him."
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notself - Jimmy and Rosalynn are definitely examples of selfless giving and living what you believe. I could hang with them.
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I agree about Jimmy Carter...he has really proven himself to be a true humanitarian at heart in his post presidential years.
I'm going through a period of fear of recurrence....it seems to come and go in spurts. Anyone have any good books to recommend? One that has helped me the most is "Loving What Is". I may re-read that one, but I am very open to suggestions on others. I'm triple negative and had a small amount of residual cancer after my lymph nodes after neoadjuvant treatment. My MO didn't think it was enough to warrant further chemo, but because it was in my lymph nodes, my risk of recurrence is higher and there are no targeted treatments available for TNBC. Most of the time I'm okay, but lately the fear factor has gotten worse. I think the holiday weekend hasn't helped any.
Wishing everyone the best....
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Simplelife4real - I don't have any books to recommend but when I really like a book, I look it up on Amazon and there is always a list of "people who bought this book also bought". I use that as a reference for books that are similar.
You might also find a list of books that would help by going to this website http://www.pantheism.net/
Fear can be a mean master and one we all deal with. Fear of recurrence is a hard one but as one who is dealing with it let me assure you it is not the end of the world. I went from Stage 1b to Stage IV. The wonderful people on this site have proven to me that life still goes on and it can go on for a long time.
One of the things that gives me perspective is that breast cancer is not the worst disease to have. There are diseases that are a death sentence. There are so many things available to us for treatment that in many cases Dr's are treating this as a chronic disease. When I go for chemo the people who are there have been fighting their cancers for years. It isn't fun but it is doable and you can still have a good life.
If you find a book you particularly like let me know. If you have any insights, share them. We all benefit from that as you know.
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simplelife4real,
When you start to fear, take a deep breath. Breathing will definitely help.
I take certain supplements that have preliminary studies for the reduction of cancer and recurrence. The studies are still preliminary but since there are little or no side effects and with my doctor's Ok, I take them. Here are links from PubMed to abstracts of the studies. PubMed is maintained by the NIH.
Turmeric http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=turmeric+breast+cancer
Olive Leaf Extract http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=olive+leaf+extract+breast+cancer
Check with your doctor before taking any supplement.
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Fear can be paralyzing. I don't have any good books to suggest, just my own experience. Find and do the things that feel life-affirming. For me, that is exercise and being outside, which has the added bonus of releasing serotonin and endorphins. For some, it is gardening or art. Meditation is very helpful to. As is massage. Sometimes simply giving yourself space and time to cry can be very helpful. Fear is not always paralyzing. Sometimes it is motivating. It is what gets our butts to the mammograms or to treatment. Perhaps you can channel your fears into motivating you to make positive changes. For me, it was fear that motivated me to lose weight and quit smoking.
I think that the most important thing I learned from my experiences with bc is that feelings cannot be denied. At least for me, I must first acknowledge, accept and fully feel before I can move forward.
I hope you find a good path through it. Sending warmth and good thoughts,
Claire
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I just want to thank all of you for your suggestions. They are all good ones!
I'm going tomorrow to get a lump under my lumpectory scar checked out. Most likely, it is just scar tissue. I've been keeping busy and trying not to dwell on it. So far, it's been working pretty good. Ever since treatment ended I'm fine most days....bc has taught me a lot about learning to cope. For those days (and moments) when I'm not so fine, I thought that this would be the perfect place to ask about books that help with dealing with fear because anything anyone suggested here wouldn't have religious undertones.
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simplelife4,
What are the results of the exam of the lump? Hope the news was boring.
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My DS sent me this. She thought it was funny. I agree.
A female CNN journalist heard about a very old Jewish man who had been going to
the Western Wall to pray, twice a day, every day, for a long, long time. So she went to check it out. She went to the
Western Wall and there he was, walking slowly up to the holy site. She watched him pray and after about 45 minutes, when he turned to leave, using a cane and moving very slowly, she approached him for an interview."Pardon me, sir, I'm Rebecca Smith from
CNN. What's your name?"Morris Feinberg," he replied.
"Sir, how long have you been coming to
the Western Wall and praying?"
"For about 60 years.""60 years! That's amazing! What do you
pray for?""I pray for peace between the Christians,
Jews and the Muslims.""I pray for all the wars and all the
hatred to stop.""I pray for all our children to grow up
safely as responsible adults and to love their fellow man.""How do you feel after doing this for 60
years?""Like I'm talking to a damn wall"
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Funny, and sad.
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Hi :-) I am an atheist, too. I believe only in myself, my family and my Boss :-D and some other animals..
After the operation, cried only for 10 days and not anymore
. Afterwards I even realized that sometimes making jokes with my BC improves the mood of the people around me, so they do not pity me and treat me as normal. simplelife4 - I read a lot and recently have decided to stop reading sad and heavy books. Try funny and enjoyable themes - humor, romances. Avoid everything about illness and death! And wars.
Very important for me is to keep myself busy and don't waste time being afraid and thinking about "what if...".
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Great joke, notself! Except that it isn't really a joke, is it?
Simplelife...any word?
Hi, Annynik!
Hoping all are well!
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Notself- i will give up an "amen" for that joke.
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They did a mammo and utrasound of my lump and told me that they were 98% sure it was fat necrosis but that they would biopsy it if I wanted them to. After thinking about it for a few days, I've decided to go ahead with the biopsy even though I tend to agree with them that it is probably fat necrosis. I would just be kicking myself if it later turned out they were wrong. I live 2 hours away from Vanderbilt (where I get all my cancer stuff done) and I also go there for my GI issues (Crohn's disease). I have to have some testing done for my Crohn's next week so I decided to wait until then to have the biopsy done. The biopsy will be done on Thursday which means I get to wait over the weekend for the results. It always seems to be that way in terms of waiting for results! I'm not to worried about it, but I also don't like that this biopsy will be almost exactly a year to the day when I had my original biopsy that lead to my diagnosis of TNBC. I just remind myself that the big difference is that last year they were 98% sure it was cancer and were trying to figure out the type. This year they are 98% sure it is not. I'm hoping they are right!
Thanks for asking. I'll post when I get the definitive results.
Kay
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