natural girls
Comments
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Barbara DH gets these welts under his skin. Zyrtec works pretty well. He is allergic to glluten and for the most part we are on a gluten free diet. I am going to ask him to start documenting what he eats and when he breaks out. will be interesting.
geewheez I had to hear of kids that are sick. My youngest had terrible allergies when he was a baby and I had to really advocate for his healthcare. It is hard when they are young. I hope your friend can find a good doctor to help him out.
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I would be interested to know if anyone thinks progesterone therapy is a good idea. I stumbled upon some clinical research and then did a whole lot more research of clinical studies. It appears that women with low progesterone are prone to breast cancer and studies have shown that progesterone is nature's way of mitigating the damage done by estrogen dominance and causes cancer cell death. The progesterone receptor inhibits aromatase and inflammatory pathways in breast cancer cells.
Any thoughts? I am supposed to start taking Armidex but am very conflicted due to the severity of some of the side effects that can happen. I would prefer a natural way to reduce estrogen and if progesterone - and it is stated that transdermal is the best way to obtain it - does this I would prefer it. There are no side effects from taking progesterone.
Kathy
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chatsworthgirl: I would really love to believe that...progestrone made me feel so much better when I started taking it along with my estrogen over a year ago, had zero in my body at testing....then I was dx with bc. Well, you know what happened then...I was taken off all BHRT! Now I'm having all the symptoms of menopause and I'm 71 years old! My BHRT doctor flatly refused to renew the prescriptions and said "we will revisit the issue in a year, when you are free of the cancer". My integrative physician feels the same way...no hormone therapy of any kind until further evaluation...meaning my body has to be monitored. I was both ER and PR positive at dx.
I know the body needs progestrong because mine was struggling without it. I just don't know of a responsible doctor who will prescribe it, particularly in place of tamoxifen or othr Al's.
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Chatsworthgirl-I understand your dilemna. I really struggled with the arimidex issue. In the end, I felt the side effects were not worth the small supposed advantage. Again we need to look at relative risk vs absolute risk. Look at it like this. When they do a drug trial. If 100 people take the drug and two people are cancer free vs only one without the drug, the drug can be labeled 50% improvement! These trials are so small, I just cannot give that much credence to them. The side effects were just not worth it for me, which would have been an absolute risk of less than 10%, not the 50% that was touted. Exercise lowers risk. Diet lowers risk. Supplements lower risk. That is the route I chose. Continue to do your homework and do what feels right for you. I had a visceral, violent reaction to taking that pill. I literally would explode. I finally realized it was my subconscious revolting against a drug I did not need. Taking a drug to block hormones is throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Yes, too much estrogen could cause cancer, but why not balance them instead. Unfortunately, finding a doctor who can do so is not easy. They are all scared of bhrt because it is still confused with the synthetic stuff, which is the link to breast cancer. I decided to look at the thyroid's role in all of this, and that is what brought me to the iodine protocol. We have a long thread on it, check it out. Iodine will detox the breasts and the body and help to regulate the thyroid. But it is a bit complicated and not something to jump into without research. Many people combine it with BHRT. I have not gone that route because I have not found a doctor whom I have total faith in, though I would like to add progesterone eventually. But one must keep testing to make sure the hormones are in balance. I do not feel the hormones will balance without addressing the thyroid. It is the piston that drives the engines. Iodine will help with that. At least it has for me.
There is a nationwide group of docs called bodylogicmd who deal with BHRT. I have met with one and she definitely has done all the research, a lot of which is coming from Europe as they are more antipharma there. But she did not address the thyroid. But that was two years ago. So I am going to see if she has changed.
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Vivre: My doc was with bodylogic and he refused to renew my prescriptions as soon as he found out I was dx with bc. He did address my thyroid and gave me an additional pill cytomel which helps boost the thyroid to work.
My new doctor has a better approach I think. He has me taking Iodine supplements, mushrooms, vit C, D, msm, Glutathione and soon I will be starting Meyer's cocktail. This is why I'm anxious to get this short term rads treatment over and done with, so I can move on with my holisitc program. I will probably never feel as good as I did when I was taking BHRT, but the supplements are helping. My hot flashes are annoying but manageable. My insomnia is not! Wish I could find something to help that! The progestrone solved the problem for me...until it was taken away! Hardly seems fair.
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Hi Kaara! My ND has me on many of the supplements that you are on. He also prescribed 20 mg of Melatonin which is excellent for fighting cancer, but also very good for sleep assist. Just make sure you take it as you go to bed. I've been using it for insomnia for years. Please note that the 20 mg dose is therapeutic for cancer, if you just want the sleep benefit, take 5 to 10 mg.
Anni0 -
AnniN: I tried the melatonin once and had a bad reaction, but maybe it was just coincidental with something else. I should probably try it again because I'm having so much difficulty with getting a good night's sleep. I could start with the 5 and work up if I tolerate it. I do that with most new meds.
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chamomile tea.. drinking thruout the day for best results.. a strong cup at nite works well too. Even tho supplements are natural, the liver and kidneys still process them.
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Kaara If you had zero progesterone in your body prior to taking HRT then that does correlate with the research showing that after menopause there is an imbalance with estrogen dominance. I am going to be 70 next month. There can't be too much progesterone floating around in me.
What was so on point for me was that after menopause is when most women develop breast cancer. Our estrogen levels fall but not as much as our progesterone. Coincidence that we get breast cancer? Not according to research. Now why younger women are getting breast cancer? The theory is that we are taking in far too much estrogen in all sorts of ways - in plastic, in our food etc.- environmental intake. Estrogen dominance.
I have read on other posts that some oncs have prescribed progesterone for breast cancer patients.
Now here is an interesting item. Squibb makes a drug called Megestrol which is a progesterone deritive that is used to treat women with breast or uterine cancer who no longer get any benefit from Tamoxifin or have recurrence after hormone blockers. Why would they give Megestrol then? Closing the barn door after the horse is stolen? Why would it work then and not before? Questions I need to ask my onc.
The problem I have with megestrol is that it is a man made copy of progesterone with other substances - not natural - and has serious side effects. Natural progesterone has none.
What puzzles me is that I have not found any large scale trials on progesterone therapy but Sqibb has managed to make and market this product. We all know that if a drug cannot be patented then there is no profit so drug companies don't bother with them. Since Megestrol is a synthetic perhaps that's how they managed it.
From some of the research, it is the dosage of natural progesterone that is key. Too little and it fuels the cancer, but a larger dose destroys them.
I am preparing a detailed memo with all the research attachments and I intend to discuss this with my onc. I would also like to see an endocrinologist to find out what my levels of hormones are now.
Before I agree to take Armidex I want to find out as much as I can about progesterone therapy.
Question - are any of you on Armidex or other aromatas inhibitors?
Kathy
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Just wondering if anyone is taking a multi-vitamin supplement that adequately covers the dosage needed for someone who has had BC? I'm taking 14 different supplements and am getting a bit frustrated with "popping" so many pills daily. Is there a decent brand out there that combines most of the ones that we are taking into one pill?
chatsworthgirl: I am taking the Emerita brand progesterone cream. I love it. It helps regulate my menopausal hot flashes and mood swings. I agree that you need to be followed and have your levels tested. I've never read anywhere however that " Too little and it fuels the cancer, but a larger dose destroys them." Where did you read that?
Terri
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Kaara-Keep in mind that we can sometimes find a happy balance when we balance our hormones. I have found that to be for me. I truly am happier and healthier than I have ever been. No more mood swings, hot flashes, excess stomach fat, etc. When you finish treatments and do a complete detox and start to really implement all the new things you have learned, you might not feel you need any BHRT. At least that is the case for me. Keep doing what you are doing, and you will get there. It sounds like you have a great doctor and are arming yourself with knowlege. Add in a little intuition and you will figure it out. This has been the silver lining for me.
Terri-One of the reasons I changed to Usana is that they have combined the nutrients into two bottles called the Essentials that has reduced the number of pills I take. They contain all the companion nutrients to the iodine protocol as well as vit d, and c in amounts that surpass the RDA but are not so high they just get expelled. They are compounded with a patented olive oil technique whereas many other companies use petroleum. You can tell the ones that do because if you put the vitamin in water with an apple slice it will turn black. Plus, it is phama grade so they have to guarantee what is in the bottle and that nothing is tainted. Usana has simplified my life tremendously. And they are very available to Canadians and will be entering the EU this spring. Let me know if you want more info and I can email it to you.
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It's important to note that Usana is a multi-level marketing scheme (scam?), and is sold through their distributors who rely on sales and recruiting for their own personal income. I thought advertising was against the rules here at BCO, so I'm not sure why it's allowed to sing praises for a specific product here and invite people to contact you to purchase it and/or troll for recruits.
As for the infamous "apple test" for Usana, what exactly does it show and how does that translate to benefit in human health?
Despite what Usana distributors say in their sales spiels, there are other high-quality supplements out there, at a comparable quality and much better value than overpriced MLM vitamins.
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Terri: I felt the same way about taking all those supplements, but my physician said that there is no way to get the levels needed in one pill. It would be so large a horse couldn't swallow it! Now I take a liquid multi vitamin that has higher than the daily requirements of everything but not as much as some of the supplements I take.
I sure would love to be able to take progestrone again, Chatsworthgirl, so keep us updated on what your onc says. Mine gave me a big NO.
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Re:It's important to note that Usana is a multi-level marketing scheme (scam?), and is sold through their distributors who rely on sales and recruiting for their own personal income. I thought advertising was against the rules here at BCO, so I'm not sure why it's allowed to sing praises for a specific product here and invite people to contact you to purchase it and/or troll for recruits.
Thenewme, you just addressed the big elephant in the room that nobody seems to talk about. So many people are aware of this member who is trolling the boards for marks (victims) to hawk Usana supplements to. She is clearly out for a profit and these boards are a gold mine to her. Sadly, she has some members believing her outrageous claims. These women are very vulnerable and some are making some poor choices. I find it disgusting that she is cheering them on. And for what? A profit?
Most of her posts are so outrageous and erroneous that they give me a serious case of the giggles. She clearly does not have a medical background nor does she understand the basics of biology or human physiology but puts on a good show for those that also dont have a science based background.
This thread is an echo chamber of psuedoscience.
I actually got a kick out of her post commanding her followers not to believe what was being posted on the net about Usana but to listen to her instead.
I wonder if she was referring to this posting:
http://www.usanawatchdog.blogspot.com/
Or maybe this one:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/news/UsanaPyramidScheme.html
And last but not least, this one's for any of you that have bought into the Usana pyramid scheme and think that you can get rich jumping on the bandwagon:
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my560sel I read in one of the clinical studies that the dosage of progesterone was key. I made copies of all the studies. I will have to go through them and post the exact one for you. Can't right now but I will.
Kaara I am not holding my breath that my onc will say OK to progesterone. He is by the book. However, I plan to submit to him all that I have researched which are clinical studies, some done in vitro, but some,more importantly, in vivo. I want him to explain to me why the focus is on eliminating estrogen rather than bringing our hormones in balance as they were when we were young. It just doesn't make any sense to me that our bodies are not considered as a totality rather than just small parts. When you want an engine to run correctly you tune it so all the working parts are in balance. The same should apply to our bodies.
I have given up my breasts, gone through a treatment of poison (chemo) and now supposed to take a drug for five years that might turn me into a 100 year old lady in a week. Might not but there is that risk.
If the focus of research was on the CAUSE instead of the SYMPTOM we might get a cure for cancer. Since drug companies are already making progesterone products that are being used for cancers then somebody knows something about that. But the mainstream "standard of care" is still to cut and poison our bodies to kill the SYMPTOM.
Rant over.
Kathy
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Four years ago I found my way to this website when I was googling for information about arimidex. I was drawn to the alternatives forum and was astounded at how controversial they were. There were a few people who were touting alternatives and they were being attacked left and right. I was a total neophyte back then. I loved my doctors and had always believed everything they told me. But I felt betrayed when I got bc because I had always followed the rules and did what I was told. I had my regular checkups and lots of tests for this and that and I was always told I was just fine. But I did not feel fine. I knew something was wrong and eventually I found a lump and went back to my doctor and demanded another mammo and that saved my life.
When I was going through treatments, things just did not seem right so I started to research. When I found my way to the women talking about alternatives here, it just seemed to make sense to me. I had never been one to think outside the box when it came to medicine. I never took a vitamin and I thought all those warnings about this and that causing cancer were bogus. But something about the debates here triggered my curiosity. I started to research and never looked back.
There was so much animosity and I tried to stay out of it, even though I was attacked regularly as others were. I could easily just go away. Who needs this? But there is only one reason I continue to reply here (contrary to what my critics accuse me of) and that is to pay tribute to a woman who called herself FlaLady. I still get emotional when I think about dear Deb and what she did for me. She was stage 4 and had outlived her prognosis for several years once she turned to alternatives. The doctors had quit on her, but she never gave up. What's more she would research tirelessly and helped to answer all of our questions. She was victimized all over these boards by those who did not believe it her message and accused of all kinds of things. The hatefulness she endured was unbelievable. I asked her why she still stayed and she said "Somebody has to, why not me? I am not going to let others drive me away because then they win." So month after month, year after year, she put up with hateful pm's and accusations, was banned and came back. Unlike others, she never changed her name or used several names so that she could make herself seem like a majority. She was who she was and never tried to hide under several alias'.
Sadly, we eventually lost FlaLady but I will never ever forget her, or her indomitable spirit. Not only did her will to fight keep herself alive, I truly believe that the information she gave me and others have kept us alive, and even thriving.
So in tribute to her, I will not go away no matter how many times I am accused of things or how many times people try to intimidate me or goad me into a fight. I see no purpose in arguing. Others have opinions that differ from mind. I totally respect that. I am only hoping that for those who think outside the box as I do, some of the things I mention will give others the courage to follow their own instincts, the impetus to do their own research and the assurance that there is no one truth except the truth that comes from our own hearts.
So here's to you FlaLady. Rest in peace my dear friend. You will always be my inspiration to keep trying to help others, just as you helped me. I hope you know how much your were appreciated and how much you are missed.0 -
Vivre, you just commited my favorite fallacy, evading the issue with a whooping woo dose of "I'm offended".. Very nice diversion. You have such a special way with words. You are very good at marketing yourself, I'll give you that.
(5) I'm offended! (A special case of the red-herring fallacy)
When a core belief is under threat from a good counter-argument it is common for many to defend the belief by stating "I'm offended". Here the person whose beliefs are under threat seeks to defend their position and thinking, not with evidence and argument, but by throwing out an often unjustified comment claiming to be offended. Creationists get offended by Evolutionary theory, Parapsychologists get offended by more sceptical scientific interpretations, and Pseudoscientists get offended when their unfounded premises and illogical cherished ideas are called into question. None of this of course, means that the beliefs of the individual being offended are actually true. It means nothing and can be cast as an instance of:
1. the red-herring fallacy (evading the issue via diversion);
2. to some degree the non-sequitur fallacy (where the argument does not follow from the premise, or the conclusion does not follow from the argument), and / or;
3. the irrelevant objection fallacy (where the completely irrelevant tangent of being offended is recruited as an objection to the argument).
The problem is the ‘I'm offended' card gets played far too easily for those whose position is difficult to defend. It is often recruited even when an opponent in a debate makes a perfectly reasonable suggestion or asks a respectful but challenging question.
Playing the 'I'm offended' card every time the debate gets interesting is neither a well reasoned, sensible or scientific position to take. It has no place in an adult intelligent debate about the issues. The perception comes about because to question a core belief of someone is, to them, to question them personally. It is not and nothing could be further from the truth. This ‘red herring' fallacy is an attempt to steer attention away from the real crux of the issue that many find difficult to deal with. It liberates such individuals from having to justify and support their argument. If you say 'I am offended' then that's all you need to say and in the minds of such people it gets them out of having to consider the issues at hand. It is a sort of cognitive defence mechanism - that serves to protect the belief position of the person. It seems their position really is - "I get offended by anything you do not agree with" - how can this be a viable position for a reasoned argument on science?0 -
We should all think outside the box, the heavily marketed commercial product box, and eat a variety of foods as close to their natural state as possible, That is of course what natural girls means, isn't it?
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Vivre, are you trying to say that the motive for you posting here is truly altruistic and not profit driven?
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Can I just say that Vivre was posting here long before she started taking Usana? Lots of people tout what they take, and lots of people sell what they take. Usually, they'd take it regardless of the sales. I know that's what I do with a certain product that I believe in. If I ever mention it and someone asks about it, I'd direct them to a website. Or they can google it. That's what I did when Vivre started talking about Usana. I looked it up and decided it wasn't for me. I've never known her to push sales, but she is always willing to share info. Who isn't??
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I take my stuff regardless of sales. If I share something I believe could be an answer, I won't send a link so I can earn commission, I can just show the way to someone who will help which I hope will always avoid controversy and allow me to continue to be helpful.
I'm here to learn and share. Be it iodine, progesterone,and I have to say, I just came here to find a peaceful place to do so, no drama. Read the first page from 2009, found this wonderful pretty alkaline treat with dried coconut, dates, almonds (organic please, they are not irradiated) salt and vanilla..... anyway, yum, check it out on page one. And decided this is one forum for me.
So, hi, I'm Essa, that's my nickname.... real name Diane. You can call me whatever. I am learning how to live long and healthy after a cancer dx of IIIA which has changed my life.
One night a friend and I were talking about how tired we were of the struggle in life, two wks later I found a mass. Decided I was not THAT tired. And now I am so much better, and still climbing.
Essa Diane
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My question is this. I am uncertain about which of these are right for me.
Budwig Protocol vs Raw Milk Cure (Mayo info) vs No Dairy at all (Jane Plant, UK info).
I believe any of them could work for someone, if it is the one meant for them. But with the dx of ER+ PR+ at 90% each, I am torn.
I love the Budwig protocol as far as the flaxseed/organic raw milk keifer or yogurt. Would not do the entire protocol and definitely will not teeter my life on the possibility of doing that alone will cure this systemic challenge. So I would do this with a macrobiotic-variation, am not a purist.
The Raw Milk Cure was phenonemal in its decades, but again, I want to see the proof of it now and it seems most info has been taken down.
The Jane Plant story is groundbreaking, imo, so many women with same outcome from giving up dairy, and I could give up dairy, in fact I did until I started to do some Budwig each day. Then I wonder if the dairy given up was raw, organic or the pasteurized, not so natural sources. Trying to find out whhat makes the difference here, waiting on my books for more info.
Just want to dialogue as I research.
Looking for experiences, cues on where to read next, anything you know, please do share.
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Thanks for your support Anne. As you said, when we find something we like, we all mention it. I was only responding to a question, but as usual some people hate me so much they attack. It does not get to me. I sleep well because I give back every day. I do not make any profit with Usana because I like to give it away to friends and family who cannot afford it. I run a non profit website and am going to start a program to make holistic health options available for those who cannot affort it. If some people do not believe me, C'est la vie.
Essa-I too love Jane Plant's book and decided to go dairy free, and immediately felt better. I am not vegan, I eat a little meat and fish, but I know some people thrive that way. My friend had all kinds of health issues and went on the Weston Price type diet, which is high protein. She tried vegan first but crashed. She is thriving on the "whole foods" diet. So the answer is, there is no one diet that fits all. We all need to figure out what is best for our bodies. I think the biggest thing that helped me was detoxing. The best way to do this was to do a lot of juicing at first, no sugar and no dairy. Then I went to sweating and supplements. It really is a journey, finding out what works for us. Just beware of anyone who touts one way. There are a lot of paths out of this nightmare. We may take different paths on the way to true health, but what does it matter. The only thing that does matter is that we CHOOSE health.
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Black-cat: I guess I would have to ask you the same question you asked vivre...what is your agenda? I've never seen you post anything but attacks or ridicule of other's beliefs on this thread. If you have a favorite thread that you go to for comfort and support, I would hope that people don't go on there, single you out, and attack you.
I would think that rule #1 on this site is to respect others. The moderators remind us often of that.
Have a great day!
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I joined Natural Girls because I found a group of individuals who appear to think very much like myself. I did not expect to see members attacking other members. Like Essa and others, I too take products available only through an MLM system. Yes, I do distribute it. Why? Because after I tried it for a month and researched the heck out of it, I was so impressed I felt I had to share the health benefits with others. At no point did I find Essa to be pushing her product, in fact I felt she was just sharing her experience with the rest of us.
So, can we go back to being support for each other and a source of advice and information rather than bashing any one individual please?
I see my new onc today for my scan results. I have just finished 4 rounds of Taxotere and Herceptin, and am suffering severe side effects from the tax. Muscle pain +++! Of course, the docs gave me narcotics so I am now bunged up to the eyeballs as well. My ND has recommended B12, magnesium and potassium for the muscle pain but have been unable to go out and get it as I am too drugged and in too much pain to drive. Hope to be able to pick them up today.
Nevertheless, terrified of seeing my onc even though my gut is telling me The scans will show big improvement. Wish me luck!
Anni0 -
AnniN Did you take the taxotere and herceptin at the same time?
The doc is right about the supplements. Magnesium especially. Try to get off the narcotics as not moving around will just make the muscle pain worse. It's essential to stretch and walk and do some sort of exercise. Plus it moves the drugs out of your body faster.
I took aleve or tylenol for the muscle pain. Can you manage a bath with epson salts? Also massage would be beneficial. As much as it hurts now it will be better with movement.
Kathy
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I was thinking about vivre yesterday as I was reading Rachel Carson's classic book Silent Spring. While catching up, I'm disheartened to see vivre be characterized as a participant here for no other reason than profit. Literally for years this thread has been 'violating' the all-important rule 11 that, gasp, prohibits the promotion of anyone's good or services. We share opinions on what we consider to be worthy of mention. Supplements in particular are rife with poor quality products. Cleaning products, cosmetics, foods -- they all challenge our health with chemicals unless one is a very careful shopper.
Sharing this information is a large part of what we do here, and the mods are aware of it. If it bothers any person who visits, well, for heavens sakes, spend time at some of the other tens of thousands of threads at bco. vivre, you did more than just 'try' to say that you are not profit driven, it IS what you said, and I for one believe you.
Now, getting back to what I wanted to post about.... The chapter I'm reading in Silent Spring talks about the aggressive campaign in the 50's to eradicate the japanese beetle. Detroit and Sheldon IL were both treated very aggressively with chemicals more deadly than DDT in the mid-50s. I was wracking my brain trying to remember what county vivre was wondering about in IL that has the exceptionally high rates of cancer. It looks like Sheldon is a fair distance from Chicago, but this info is on my front burner for the moment, and thought I'd come here and share the information. Silent Spring of course was written decades ago. I wonder if anyone ever tracked the rates of cancer of those who were exposed the japanese beetle chemical onslaught.
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Sorry to have left my respose for so long but I've been overloaded with work. Firstly I'd like to say that I in no way believe that Vivre is pushing Usana products for multi-level-marketing reasons. She was contributing to this forum long before she started using Usana. Furthermore, why not tout a product that has worked for you and that you have confidence in. I think that those of you who have been "bashing" her are taking her suggestions the wrong way and in fact, I think that you're just looking for reasons to create controversy. This forum is for the purpose of sharing ideas and experiences and I for one thank all of you who take the time to post positive, helpful information.
Perhaps my posting above that I take the Emerita brand progesterone cream may be misconstrued as a sales pitch - NOT !
Terri
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I think that as intelligent adults, we can tell a sales pitch from an attempt to provide us with useful information that will help us make decisions. I always want to hear about products that others are using that have helped them. I still do my own research before buying.
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Vivre, how beautiful in the way you are passing your efforts forward. An inspiration. When I helped a man in town who had cancer years ago, so many still think I was pocketing commissions from his illness. In fact, I ordered our products together, we shared shipping and he got the benefit of my price. I know what it is like to be judged for presumably taking advantage, don't want that again.
Anni - can your ND tell you which homeopathic remedy for the muscle pain?
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