natural girls
Comments
-
I took turkey tail during my taxols and 2 weeks after i started it- my tumors actually shrank a little (i had chemo first).
I'll keep taking it ---
I still take it. I get it in organic nano form from the Herb Shop in Oregon. i can put the powder in capsules.
good stuff!
and essiac is estrogenic.
you can get that at the herb shop too
0 -
why would I think it was the cheno that shrunk it ?
If essiac is estrogenic, we should steer clear.0 -
But Ojibwa tea is not Essiac. We need more info. The Essiac has red clover added, a no no for female cancers.
I wonder if natural estrogens are a blocker for the ER+ in some ways? I have no clue. But I do know the bioidentical progesterone cream fills the PR+ receptors in cancer cells.
Yes, we just need more info.
Purple, so the diuretic is a no for LE? And the burdock then could cause problems. And I have had some issues with increased LE of late. And have been drinking the Ojibwa tea 4 x day.
But why no diuretics for LE? I am lost. Don't they esponge the fluids, cast them off in a good way?
Thanks for your insight.
Essa
0 -
Essa, even without red clover, the remaining herbs in the tea, the ones you listed as being in the tea, are estrogonic.
I can't answer whether that is good or bad, but if you are avoiding red clover, you should consider avoiding the remainder of those estrogonic herbs as well.
Where did you find the info about bioidentical PR? Also, if it fills the receptors, how do we know that it doesn't fuel the cancer just like actual PR?
0 -
I took bios for awhile and the way the dr explained it was: E tells our cells to grow, then P along to tell it when to stop. That is what happens during our monthy cycle. E gives us our energy and vitality. P makes us calm and helps us sleep. He said if the cancer is pr+ its a good thing because the bio P will do what its supposed to do. Many people have too much E and not enough P to balance it out and that's where the problems start. That is of course simplified the way I understand it.
0 -
HLB, I get what you are saying, but so far I have not been able to find any kind of medical study to give me a reasonable answer one way or the other.
I did see one of my docs yesterday and mentioned that the last gyno I had contact with (after my ER+ DX) was ready to give me bio-identical hormones to deal with menopause. My doc rolled his eyes.
The thing that I can't understand is that if it binds with the receptors and acts like the actual hormone in the body (like phyto-estrogens lessening the symptoms of menopause, for example) then why wouldn't it also help the cancer grow?
0 -
Momine - Here is a link to some posts I made as I made my decision to go with the bioidenticals.
edited to change the link..........
This is the page I meant, not the one below, but it too has info.
Treating Estrogen Positive Cancer Naturally not the one I meant but posted first
There are many posts on that thread. I struggled with this decision for months. HLBs simple explanation is correct. PR+ is a good thing, but never ever ever if one is using synthetic progesterones through anything, be it toxic smoke from a neighbor's outside wood boiler which has both estrogens and all that, lotions, rx. But biodenticals are useful, they fill those receptors and nothing can get in there but them, since they are the naturally aailable the body chooses them. If we don't have the natural progesterones then the body uses what ever else it can get for the cancer receptors.
I just considered, it is like cancer feeding on sugars, we can feed it all different kinds, it takes the best of the choices, I am presuming meaning white sugar is its favorite, but if it cannot get that and is finding carbs, then that or fruits then that.
The majority of MDs in US are not open to this, they have been taught otherwise. I found the studies from Europe mostly. My natural endocrinologist also gave me a book.
I was scared, believe me. But I know I have made my right choice.
Now the challenge is this - given my estrone and estradiol are super super low, and these were low aat first tests from the alt supplements and ooils I was using to drive them down and balance them - my challenge is with low estrogen and progesterone being 'too low' but needing to be where it is to be in balance with the estrogen, I have emotional dives. I am using the flower essences, creativity, slow rides through the beautiful countryside, happy movies like the Brothers and Sisters series, love it, and requesting from the new onc the Low Dose Naltrexone which has proven useful for endorphins that assist cancer people. Researching that right now to send him the information.
My next PT scan is Thursday. I was forego one for the next ten years but have decided I am at a critical stage in needing information on how the alternative treatment choices I am using are managing the cancer which was active last Spring and Summer, then tamed down since then. I love the oncologist, we will make a great team, he is open to the alternatives, very much so, but trained to be an oncologist. But he is open to what I am doing, and he is positive about it and supportive and it was so refreshing that he did not say You're going to die if you don't do this my way!!!!!!! which I have heard more than a dozen times with varying degrees of enthusiasm from both alternative healers and MDs of all sorts. He is attempting to learn more on the alternative.
We talked about tumeric, paw paw, natural hormones for cancer, Vitamin D3.
I am supposed to send him info on all my fav choices that I might do w a mild chemo, if I decide it is time for that. We are deciding what goes with what, he is learning and I am learning.
He is in Warsaw btw.
Outsmart Your Cancer is a book I recommend for everyone!
LOVEEssa
0 -
Thanks for the explanation. I admit that I remain dubious.
The sugar example does not work. Whether you eat table sugar or maple syrup or an apple, it all gets converted to glucose in order to enter your bloodstream. In other words, the action is exactly the same regardless of the source. The only difference is how long it takes your body to convert it to glucose and thus make it available for your cells, cancer and normal ones.
However, if you have decided to take bio-identicals, then why avoid the red clover, yet drink other estrogonc herbs?
0 -
Purple, so the diuretic is a no for LE?
Madbird
Sorry I did not see this.
100% positive diuretics are NOT good for LE.
This is why :
LE is not regular edema/ water type fluid buildup. It also consists of a rich, protein like substance that is a breeding ground for bacteria ( avoid cuts, needles etc ... which can cause cellulitis) Soooooooooooo....unlike plain ole edema which responds well to diurectics, these pills would help remove the more 'fluidy part' of the substance , but could not get rid of the thicker protein like substance. Now think about it . What has happened /.? You have in effect " thickened' something you want to dilute !
Drink more water an pee often for LE!0 -
Got it, Purple, makes sense. Which makes a quandry of issues with some of my supplements if I only consider that.
Momine, no the sugar example does not really work for considering progesterone, but yes, the example does work for sugars because I did say the cancer cells would use all the sugars in the end, but hone in on the white sugar at first if given that opportunity.
The red clover - I have no answer except three years ago I was told by a professional herbalist that the red clover was never for "feminine cancers" so I believe it, though now I do notunderstand why she said this. I have taken your concerns to heart and done a bit of reading, this link is the most comprehensive reading. So I am left with questions for her.
The same is said about burdock root, slippery elm bark, sheep shorrel and turkey rhubarb. These are not estrogenic in a bad way, they are plant estrogens or phytoestrogens. On the detail though, is mentioned anti-estrogens. Assuming this means blocking our natural estrogens.
The reason I have used the Ojibwa tea is that it has been used forever for imbalances and cancer, I have used it off and on for a few decades for detox and strengthening my blood. You are right, since it too is full of phytoestrogens, the question then becomes - do we believe in the power of phytoestrogens to fill the estrogen+ receptors on cancer cells, or not.
0 -
"I did say the cancer cells would use all the sugars in the end, but hone in on the white sugar at first if given that opportunity."
There is no first or last as far as the cancer cells are concerned. Whether you eat a zucchini or some white sugar, it all has to be converted to glucose in your gut, then enter the blood stream as glucose in order for the cancer (or regular cells) to use it. The only difference between the zucchini and the white sugar in that context is that the white sugar will convert faster and therefore cause a spike in blood glucose.
Red clover is equally a phyto-estrogen, so it makes no sense to exclude that but include the others. As I said before I hope we get more solid research on plant estrogens soon, because what I have found in reading is conflicting and confusing info, like you have found as well.
0 -
I've been to some natural conferences, where I've always learned that phytoestrogens are a much weaker form of estrogen that competes with the stronger natural estrogens. So if you have too much strong estrogen floating around, they would replace some of it, which would be a good thing. And if you don't have a enough natural estrogen, they might be supplementing a little bit, which could also be good, if you are suffering the symptoms of low estrogen.
I don't worry about avoiding phytoestrogens at all in foods, most of the most healthy foods are full of them, and I wouldn't give up my legumes and seeds, fruits or veggies. I have taken some of the supplements to deal with menopause side effects, including red clover. I found that one to make my joints very achy, so in my case, I think it might have been possibly suppressing my estrogen, just a guess. I've used black cohosh and that one has helped with hot flashes. Also, my Onc recommended taking tincture of rhubarb to help with hot flashes, and it seemed to help for a little while, then it stopped working. I told him it must be a phytoestrogen if it works, but he said he didn't think so.
In my case, I am not looking to lower my natural estrogen at all. I really don't like the changes that menopause has brought, so my aim is to keep what estrogen I have by not taking AIs as my Onc wants, and to even use supplements that might help. But I had an early stage cancer and did take tamoxifen for 3 years and have made healthy lifestyle changes, so I feel that this gives me room to take more chances. If I hadn't been diagnosed with BC, I would probably have been on some bioidentical hormonal replacement. If I could find a doctor who believed in it, I would consider taking it.
0 -
I see what you are saying, Momine.
Rose, there is a thread for treating estrogen positive cancer naturally. Hope you post there sometime too.
I am using some powders, extracts and oils on my skin too to lower the estrogens. But I too do not recoil from phytoestrogens, as I believe they are filling the receptors on the ER+ cells with their estrogen properties, and to me this is another way to lower the estrogens.
The red clover, I still plan to find out what she meant. Is on my list.
Essa
0 -
Good Morning!! I don't know if any of you remember me, used to be fairy 49, but as I have been off the boards for a while I had to re-register, and so now its fairy 53:))) I am older now LOL! I wanted to check in and see how all my girls were doing, it's going to take me a while to catch up on all the posts!! Love you guys!!
0 -
Hi everyone,
I am new to this board and this subject. I am ER+, PR+, HER- and in premenopause. Is eating white button mushroom good for me? What about Enoki mushrooms? I thought eating mushrooms in general is good for cancer. I did not know that it depends on the level of Estrogen you have. Thank you for help.
0 -
Hi Fairy!
You were (are) one of the original natural girls
from four years ago. It's so great to see you. Tell us what you've been up to an what you're taking. I remember you were such a good researcher. Most of the original natural girls moved to other groups but Althea still pops in once in a while.xoxoxoxoxoxxoxo
0 -
I have tried to join the other groups but not managed it can you help or sendme links please?
0 -
new2bc, my Naturopathic Oncologist wants me to eat 8oz of white button mushrooms/wk as it is a natural aromatase inhibitor. I asked her about other types and she said there is a lot of research on white button mushrooms, but not others, doesn't mean they are not beneficial, just that there is no research available.
0 -
I initially thought your natural path was crazy, but I used Dr google. and there is some research on that. didn't know that.
I found local mushroom guide and I'm going mushroom hunting when it warms up.
I have vision of me in camoe and the bright yellow vest carrying shotgun. (need for shooting them out of trees?)
0 -
Hi Fairy53 who used to be Fairy49 and judging by the close up photo of you, maybe we should call you LovelyFairy!!! Lovely to see you again!
0 -
HI Fairy, I remember you well! You are the wedding planner. Would love to hear what you have been up to.
0 -
does anyone have data on the use of full spectrum infrared saunas and silicone implants? Manufacturer of implants does not have data and referred me to the sauna manufacturers. the sauna manufacturer says plastic reflects infrared but has no data/studies. I'm getting mixed opinions on the Internet. Thank you.0 -
dell
0 -
CC - I know what you say, the time seems like a few months back but the other side cannot figure out how long since the momentous lump was discovered and all the oh yes, of course and why did I not know this was the problem started. Spend several months on bco off and on, needed support, talking to others, gathering information. Appreciate the place forever.0 -
Essa, good to see you. How are you doing?0 -
I'm glad to see the natural girls thread is still easy to find. I remember when it never ever scrolled off the first page. Just popped in to see who's still around and to commemorate my 9th anniversary of dx. What a journey it's been. I have a tray full of supplements, but frankly I'm weary of that routine. I'm moving away from them and toward superfoods and high grade essential oils. The way I feel is noticeably better in just months. Merry Christmas everyone!
0 -
althea: I'm tiring of the supplements as well (hate swallowing pills). How do you define high grade essential oils?
0 -
check out NHR organic oils. I got black cumin seed oil there. can't take much of it though for me not very palatable, perhaps I'll get used to it as time goes by
0 -
The brand I use and love is setting its own standard for quality in a way that exceeds what any regulations require by law. By way of example, they offer oils that are suitable for internal consumption, which most essential oils are not.
I'm a bit reluctant to say much more about it here. I haven't been around here much since I was "removed by the community' a couple of years ago for posting a link to Renegade Health's cancer telesummit. I'm happy to share information about essential oils. I use them, I love them, I benefit from them. At the same time, I don't want to stir up any drama that was running rampant at the time I departed. So maybe the best way to share with those who are interested would be by private message.
0 -
.0
