natural girls
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Hi, Dawn ~ Welcome! Sounds like you have a great start if you're already a vegetarian and eat organic. I can suggest a couple of books I think are worth picking up (and I also started from a pretty healthy lifestyle/diet, so I believe these address some of the "fine tuning" issues that concern you now):
1. Beating Cancer With Nutrition, Patrick Quillin, PhD, RD, CNS & formerly a VP with Cancer Treatment Centers of America
2. The Anti-Estrogenic Diet, Ori Hofmekler
I'm currently reading Life Over Cancer by Keith Block, M.D.
And yes, you're right -- refined sugar "feeds" cancer cells, and excess body fat can produce estrogen, which, unless you're ER-, you don't need or want.
Glad you've joined us! Deanna
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Rosemary,
It is hard to get enough veggies in and balance taste. What I try and do is change the veggies up every few days. One thing I have learn is don't put use high content of water fruits. Watermelon, cantaloupe and other like these will break down and separate a few hours later. I have found that certain things can hide bitter or strong favors. Banana or pear can really hide a lot of weird favors. I don't get too full. I do add 8oz of water to my blender and this way I drink more water and with the fiber I more regular and this seems to let me drink more juice. I drink 64 oz of juice a day up until the last few months. I've lost mobility of my right arm and now it is difficult to cut up my veggies.
Pet find cancer
I also meet a girl online here that I cat would go up and push on the tumor ever morning and she notice it was sore but did nothing and the cat kept up until she went to the doctor.
Another lady got a new dog and he got poison ivy and jump up with his paws on her chest and she got the poison ivy and was spreading cream on her chest and found her lump.
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Rose,
Was this the conference Dr. Schachter spoke at?
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Yes Molly, why, have you heard of him before?
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Hi Everyone,
I'm new to this thread. There is a LOT of great information here. I just finished TC x 4 two weeks ago. I just started on Tamoxifen this afternoon. What do you recommend doing first as far as detoxing from chemo? All this information is a bit overwhelming. I don't know where to start. I am going to cut our meat except for fish once my taste buds go back to normal. Thanks.
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Sea! ok, so I was looking at my hormone/blood test report. The first thing that hit me was your progesterone, its really low, it should be between 0.95 and 21.00 ng/ml, mine is low at 0.73 your is only .03, I know docs can't recommend us officially to supplement with bioidentical progesterone, but I am seriously considering it as mine is low and I beginning to believe, with all of my research that this may be key. Also your Vit D3 needs to be higher, from what I have been reading it should be between 70 and 100, the naturopathic MD that I see wants mine higher I am at 53. I am still looking at the rest, I will check in shortly!
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Good Evening ladies! I was reading my hormone report AGAIN LOL! and wanted to quote the following things that I found interesting and wanted to share:
Progesterone:
Low levels of progesterone may indicate an anovulatory cycle or luteal phase defect, in which the corpus luteum production of progesterone is impaired. Possible causes include psychological or physical stress, strenuous exercise, inflammatory conditions and peri-menopause. Adrenal insufficiency might also contribute to low luteal progesterone as can medications such as ampicillin and oral contraceptives. Low progesterone may relate to PMS, infertility, spontaneous abortion, benign breast disease or dysfunctional uterine bleeding.
Everything I am reading about low progesterone is convincing me that I need mine to be higher, so if a tumor (mine) is 100% PR positive, I still don't understand what part the PR plays in BC?
Another quote on the report says (and you all know how into the 2:16 ratio I am!)
2:16 alpha-Hydroxyestrone Ratio: It appears from literature to be an important gauge of estrogen metabolism. In the general, the higher the ratio, the less association there is with estrogen dependent diseases, such as breast cancer and lupus, and the more likely the person has a beneficial hormone metabolism. A 2:16 ratio in serum greater than 0.4 is generally thought to be beneficial. There are numerous modifiers of this value, most of which induce changes in the level of the 2-OHE1 (the good one). These include Indole-3-carbinols (DIM and 13C), flaxseed, soy, omega-3 fatty acids and vigorous exercise.
I found the flaxseed and soy really interesting, as I know so many of us are avoiding both!
Just wanted to share this stuff, I find it all fascinating!
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Lorraine ~ I'm still confused about the 2:16 test. Is this an inclusive test we need, or is it a ratio I can determine using the results of my estrogen, estradiol, total estrogen serum, DNA (DS) antibodies and all the other various bood tests I've already had? Sorry to be somewhat dense about it, but I'm seeing my PCP this week, and I want to ask her about it. If I haven't had a test with 2:16 ratio in its name, is that something I still need?
Also ~ Just FYI on soy ~ the nutritionists at UCLA have always said it's okay. I haven't posted about it here because it seems there is a difference of opinions amongst oncs around the country, and we each have to do what we believe is right based on what our own medical team advises. But UCLA has always said it's fine -- in moderation -- with the exception of soy isolates, which would be soy protein and things like energy bars that include soy protein, because that form of soy has been modified. Deanna
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Deanna! The naturopathic MD that I have been seeing took soooooo much blood and ordered a ton of tests, I don't think typically they test the 2:16 ratio, on my tests they tested the 2 hydroxyestrone (good) and the then tested the 16 hydroxyestrone (bad), they take those two numbers to come up with your ratio, on my report, these are two totally different tests and levels than the estradiol, estrone, estriol, DHEA, Progesterone, etc etc. You are soo not dense! its so very complicated and my PCP, OBGYN, ONC wouldn't do these extra tests, I had to go the naturopathic MD to get all that done. Thanks for your input on the soy!!
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Saw this and thought I would share
Progesterone Promotes Apoptosis; Estrogen Turns If Off
Research has looked into what it is that makes a cell do this. It is not told to by some other cell. It is built into the DNA of the genes of that cell. It's designed that way. It turns out that there's a gene that will block apoptosis and try to get the cell to live longer. That gene is called BCL2. It leads to the cell becoming a cancer cell.
Breast Cancer Cells Need Apoptosis In Order To Die
The cancer cell doesn't think of itself as a bad cell. It thinks of itself as a cell that outsmarted you, and it is going to live on. You might die, but it is going to try to live on. But the gene that normally functions to cause that cell to commit programmed cell suicide is the gene called P53. In the 1/28/98 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) is an article entitled "To Die or Not to Die." They are not talking about your life, though they well could be. They are talking about the cell and what controls and determines if it dies on time as it ought to. They refer to gene P53 as the gene that tells the cell to die on time, and BCL2 is the gene that blocks this. So if BCL2 is the dominant one you'll develop cancer. If P53 is the dominant one you won't. Inside your breast you have skin cells that line the milk ducts. You have miles of milk ducts in your breasts. These cells are like skin cells. They are being made; then they are supposed to die, and the specialized blood cells (macrophages) go and eat them up, because new cells are coming along all the time. Imagine that they didn't die on time, and your breast just retained all these cells that are being made all the time. Pretty soon your breasts would be dragging on the ground. The only way you keep normal size breasts is to have last month's cells die, because this month new cells are coming along.
This doesn't happen to brain cells or muscle cells, but in all the other cells in your body this goes on all the time. What keeps you young and healthy is the new cells coming along.
Can You Cure Cancer if You Can Control Apoptosis?
What they are admitting in the JAMA article is that the war on cancer has been a failure. The war on cancer has been trying to find medicine that stop rapidly growing cells from multiplying so rapidly, but in the process they are stopping your own white blood cells, your hair follicles and everything else. So if they give you a medicine strong enough to kill the cancer cells, they are in the process are killing you. They admit that chemotherapy is a failure, except for some leukemias and lymphomas in young children. Young children that have a real strong immune system will survive the chemotherapy and come back. But for those of us who are adults the chemotherapy strong enough to kill the cancer would have to be strong enough to kill us first. So now, the new treatment goal is how to control apoptosis to bring on cell death of the cancer cells. "New cancer therapies that aim to induce apoptosis, specifically in cancer cells and cells becoming cancer, are the source of much excitement and renewed hope for cure." You can cure cancer if you can control apoptosis.
Progesterone Upregulates the Gene that Causes Cancer Cells To Die Estrogen Upregulates the Gene that Cause Cancer Cells to Not Die
Last year Dr. Ben Formby and Dr. T.S. Wiley at the University of California in Santa Barbara proved how to do that very thing. Dr. Ben Formby is from Copenhagen, Denmark. He is a molecular biologist who has learned how to build cell cultures, and how to tell the products of specific genes like BCL2 and P53. So he took the cell cultures of breast, endometrium, ovary and prostate, and he grew them in culture. On some he added a little estrogen (estradiol). Guess what happened. The estradiol turned on BCL2, and the cells grew rapidly and didn't die. Then he added some progesterone to it. Guess what happened. They stopped growing so rapidly; they died on time, and the cancer all disappeared. He did that for all these types of cancer.
What do we have? The BCL2 stimulates the risk of cancer. Gene P53 decreases the risk of cancer. Estradiol upregulates BCL2. Progesterone upregulates P53. Therefore progesterone decreases cancer. Unopposed estradiol causes the cancer. Simple. Estrogen dominance is the cause of the cancer growing and the inability of the body to cure it.
Progesterone and Estrogen Functions in Breast Cancer Supported by Major Medical Journals
The critics are saying that they don't see anything about this in the medical journals that they read. Maybe they aren't reading the correct journals. There are 12 references to tests on BCL2 and P53, and the difference between progesterone and estrogen. Some of the places these articles have occurred:
- The American Cancer Society
- The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology
- The American Journal of Pathology
- International Journal of Cancer
- The Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)
- Fertility and Sterility - Journal of the American Society For Reproductive Medicine
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Lorraine ~ That is so interesting! You know, I briefly chatted recently with a holistic practitioner (don't recall her professional title, but she does nutritional blood analysis, iridology, etc.), just to find out if I wanted to make an app't. with her. And the one thing she said to me when I gave her a quick synopsis of what I'm doing is, "I wonder if you might also benefit from some natural progesterone?" Hmmm... It makes me think that maybe some of our natural doctors already know more about this "new" area of bc research than the research docs! D.
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Florbo,
Welcome. Yes it does get interesting around here with so many women well versed in so many different ways of healing.
If you want to get started with some long reading about different foods and vitamins that have been researched to benefit us, this will be the place to begin.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=526387&tool=pmcentrez
I'm sure someone else will come by with detox info.
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Interesting about the pets finding cancer. I have three cats. None of them noticed a thing! I guess I got the dumb ones!
Fairy-Dr. Lee has been saying for 20 years that natural progesterone causes cell apotosis. No one is listtening because they are too sold on the idea of the drugs! Everyone should read his book, as I recommended before. It gives the best analysis of hormones around. It explains them all as well as the thyroid issues, and is easy to understand. Just don't ask me to explain it-it would take pages. I cannot say enough, how much I have learned from this book:
"What Your Doctor May NOT Tell You about Breast Cancer"
As for the soy. Here is why I think it is bad-Over 90% of soy is GMO. These genetically modified crops do not act the same as natural plants. Add to that, the fact that soy is still the most sprayed crop we have and I think the stuff is just plain poison. Read all about it at
responsibletechnology.org
Cancer incidence went up dramatically when GMO's were introduced into our food. And the largest producer of seeds is Monsanto, who also make pesticides. They actually take seeds and treat it with the pesticide and then when it grows, it has the pesticide throughout the plant! We all need to start looking at how this company is killing us, plant by plant! It is so scary!
We know that pesticides and herbicides cause our estrogens to go crazy, and I must admit I did a lot of spraying on my two acres of weeds before my dx. Now I do a lot of pulling! I could spend hours everyday. It is so frustrating. I saw a new tool that allows one to wipe the herbicide on a plant, hence stopping the spray drift. I am thinking of going this route. I also saw that they put a sponge on a sprayer at the arboretum and paint the weeds. If they can get hold of the weed problem with acres and acres, I should be able to do 2.
Florbo-there are lots of detox treatments on the market, but I would not recommend any without a doctor's guidance. I found a chiro who is a nutritionist. I know there are naturapathic docs who do this too. I did a restricted diet and took a supplement for several weeks. It was a metagenics product that one can only get through doctors, can't remember the name of it. They had a liquid version, but I could not get the thick liquid down. It would only take a week, but I went the long route. I felt safe with the slow and sure method. I did get a lot of headaches, which indicates the body is detoxing. I really think detoxing is a great idea. And the best detox is sweat. Sitting in a far infared sauna not only detoxes because it makes you sweat, studies show that high heat kill cancer cells, the sauna's may even kill any stray cells. I believe in these saunas so much that I have even started selling them!
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Great article Rosemary. It seems to me that there is proof of the value of nutrition, and the stats are higher than the use of all these hormone blocking drugs. Why don't they just tell us to eat better instead of just handing out the pills? It really gets my dander up! Of course, we need to make sure the plants we eat are organic and non GMO. Maybe that is why vegans still get bc. Perhaps they are consuming so much GMO soy?
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Vivre,
One thing we're sure of: food kills, slowly but surely, overtime, keep eating the wrong things and we pay. This we know. But no one is telling us the right foods can also heal, slowly but surely over time, it keeps us safe from diseases. Where's that ad campaign?
"Maybe that is why vegans still get bc. Perhaps they are consuming so much GMO soy?"
Too much pesicides would be my first thought with herbicides. We are such innocents, we believe our gov't will protect us from contaminated food stuffs. Not so.
Anyway, I've read all about growing plants with weeds. An organic farmer has found them to be beneficial. I wish I could lead you to what I've read. I have no idea where I read it. Using the right organic soap on leaves keeps them from getting buggy. Bugs don't like to eat soap. And it washes off. I'm trying to remember the name of a flower that bugs like to eat, so organic farmers will grow that flower near his food plants and bugs will have a field day with them instead. It's Mums, they like them better.
Yes, I totally agree with you about soy. 90% of soy being grown here in the U.S. is modified so it can accept round-up spraying. Here's something else I didn't know about soy, and peanuts!:
Chlorophyll All green plants also contain chlorophyll, the light-collecting molecule. Chlorophyll and its derivatives are very effective at binding polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (carcinogens largely from incomplete combustion of fuels), heterocyclic amines (generated when grilling foods), aflatoxin (a toxin from molds in foods which causes liver cancer), and other hydrophobic molecules. The chlorophyll-carcinogen complex is much harder for the body to absorb, so most of it is swept out with the feces. The chemoprotective effect of chlorophyll and its derivatives has been tested in laboratory cell cultures and animals [107,108]. There is so much compelling evidence for anti-carcinogenic effects of chlorophyll that a prospective randomized controlled trial is being conducted in Qidong, China to see if chlorophyllin can reduce the amount of liver cancer cases, which arise from aflatoxin exposure in their foods (corn, peanuts, soy sauce, and fermented soy beans). A 55% reduction in aflatoxin-DNA adducts were found in the group that took 100 mg of chlorophyllin three times a day [109]. It was supposed that the chlorophyllin bound up aflatoxins, but there were chlorophyllin derivatives also detected in the sera (which had a green tint to it) of the volunteers who took the supplement, indicating a possible role in the body besides binding carcinogens in the gut [110].
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I think a lot of this has been discussed here, but thought I would share: From Dr. Weil:
Environmental toxins such as lead, mercury and dioxin are serious hazards to human health. Fortunately, there are ways to both minimize your exposure to and lower the quantity of toxins in your body.
To reduce your exposure:
* Do not smoke, and avoid secondhand smoke.
* Eat organically grown, pesticide-free foods whenever possible.
* Eat foods lower on the food chain.
* Do not ingest toxic or synthetic substances, including artificial colors in foods.
* Avoid living or working near hazardous sites such as reclaimed landfills or toxic waste dumps.
* Seek employment that does not involve contact with chemicals or chemical solvents.To reduce toxins that have accumulated in your body:
* Drink plenty of pure water.
* Have regular bowel movements - eating a diet with plenty of whole grains and fresh, organic fruits and vegetables can promote healthy digestion.
* Breathe clean air deeply.
* Sweat - a sauna, steam bath or vigorous exercise can help to promote sweating.
* Try milk thistle (Silybum marianum). This herb may have beneficial, detoxifying effects, as it protects and enhances liver function. Look for extracts standardized to 70-80 percent silymarin, and take two capsules twice a day or as the label directs.0 -
Rosemary, I do not spray anything in my veggie beds. I have them in raised boxes, so they are easy to work with. The rabbits cannot jump that high, thought the coons do take chomps out of my tomatos. I can't plant corn at all, because they just eat them before I do. I found that just water keeps the aphids at bay. I am putting screens on my cukes and melons because I read that the moth that lays it larvae that causes the fusileum (sp) wilt I usually get, is not active after June, so I hope by then, the vines are strong enough to withstand the bugs. I have been gardening for years, but it is still a puzzle why some years I get bumper crops and some years it is a bust! Hopefully, I will have some great tomatoes when you head north this fall. We live on tomato and cuke salad all summer. I plant the sweet 100 tomatoes and they are like eating candy.
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Very interesting stuff today!! Thank-you all for sharing. Here is my conclusion on what to do: All of us bc girls move to the mountains (clean air, not near any hazardous sites, pure water) grow our fruits, grains and veggies (organic) build a commune with toilets (regular bowel movements) and take all our vitamins and supplements with us!!! I guess the hippies in the 60's were smarter than anyone imagined!!!!!!
God Bless Us ALL
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Seaotter, I would settle for a nice tropical island, lots of natural Vit D and sea salt rich in iodine! And lots of swimming for the sea otters! Can we pool enough money to buy one??
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vivre - I was so hoping for the mountains because I can't do to much sun due to previous skin cancer
. I guess as long as there will be shade and plenty of sunblock I'm in!!!!!!God Bless Us All
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Rose,
Yes, I saw Dr. Schachter speak at this conference last year:
http://centerfortraditionalmedicine.org/whatsnew/pdf/aapr%20conference.pdf
There was an awesome speaker lineup!
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I have read some suggestions about sitting in a sauna. If you are at risk for lymphedema I suggest you ask a lymphedema expert before sitting in a sauna. I do know they say no to whirlpools or hot tubs because the high heat can affect the arm. Be safe!!!
God Bless Us All
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Hi Ladies!!
Glad to see we are all in fine form today!! You guys are such a blessing!
So, I kept waking up all night, I was dreaming of progesterone cream!! Should I or shouldn't I !!!!!, based on my recent hormone test I am low, sooooo, I haved read Dr. Lee's book over and over, and last night found a bunch of other studies on it, the naturopathic MD that I am working with told me that Dr. Lee used KoKoRo progesterone in his studies, but she said she could'nt "officially" tell me to use it - crap! Vivre, I know you are considering it.....any decisions??
I do have to tell you all about this lady I know, she was looking miserable a few months back, hitting menopause and feeling awful, so I recommended that she go to my naturopath. I saw her a few weeks back and she looked 10 years younger has lost 20lbs and was feeling fabulous! I understand the doc did her hormone levels etc and she is now on progesterone and loving life, she doesn't, however, have BC.
There seems to be a big grey area in what progesterone in PR+ BC actually means, so if anyone on here understands it better than I do please explain! Even my Onc said "they" don't know! aaaahhhh!!
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Florbo, I haven't seen anyone mention anything about a dietary detox (or "cleanse"), but after I finished treatment, my naturopath recommended I do the Wild Rose Herbal D-Tox. It's a two-week restricted diet (no dairy, no sugar, no starchy foods) that comes with some herbal supplements. I found it fairly restrictive (diets are not for me, I like cheese too much) but it was interesting to try and I felt pretty good after the first few days. I can't really argue the merits of it, but it seemed good to eliminate a bunch of stuff for that period, and aim to eliminate the truly bad stuff for good...
[Edited to say I have no affiliation with this product. It's just the one that was recommended to me, not trying to sell it!]
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About that commune, can it be near fresh water instead of salt water? I'm trying to lower my salt intake. But then again the rivers are full of estrogen...ok, no water. How about a hot box? We build a hot box, and sweat. In 90 degree weather, this should take 10 mins. The hot box is shady inside, no skin cancer, hotter then hell. Vivre will grow our foods. No cooking necessary.
What will we do for water? Ok, we call up the EPA and insist on clean, fresh water. We'll make them responsible for providing it and we want it now. They've had plenty of chances to clean it up. Ok, that's a dream, so we'll have to live near a waterfall where the water goes over loads of rocks. Estrogen can't get up a mountain, can it? It sounds like we're heading for Canada, or Switzerland.
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I vote for Switzerland! The have an abundance of great chocolate there!
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Ok, Switzerland it is! The chocolate has totally convinced me
.I talked to my chiro today. She is not well informed about bc but I told her a lot about the supplements we are taking. She said she was going to look into them. She wants to get my adrenal glands working correctly. She said they have a lot to do with the immune system. She gave my a diet to get my system more alkaline and says no to sugar
. (I will still go to Switzerland and eat chocolate, hey a girl has to live!!!!)I bought a juicer on e-bay
. It's a Breville. I made a decision, whew!God Bless Us All
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If you have had lymph nodes removed and/or have had radiation to that area, a sauna is absolutely off limits. The hot tub is iffy. If it is outdoors and cold out, it may be OK for short periods of time as long as you don't submerge that arm. My lymphedema started during a very hot weekend (+100 degrees). Heat is a trigger. Be careful.
Rose G - I swear, when I read your posts, they could have been written by me!
Every time I read this thread, my head is spinning! So much info.
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Lorraine, I read somewhere but can't remember where, that progesterone + status actually means that the progesterone does something to counteract the effects of the estrogen in the breast cells. I believe it was a book by Susan Love, the Menopause and Hormones book or perhaps it was the one by Dr. Christine Northrup, the Wisdom of Menopause. Sorry, I can't remember exactly, I've done so much reading these past several months.
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Ok, no hot box to sweat in, but I did have this really nice exterior design in mind. Which leads me to ask a question. We can't go out in the sun anymore after radiation? No sun to that area at all, or is that a myth? Any rad onc mention this to anyone here?
Congrats Seaotter, welcome to the juicers corner. I'm still holding off because I have a juicer and decisions never happen around here anyway.
The hills are alive with the sound of music....
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