The dumbest things people have said to you/about you
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barbe1958: Wow - you REALLY have had night sweats! I thought mine were bad; haven't decimated any bedding just yet . . . I wake up drenched every morning and have kicked off covers (then gotten cold within the next half hour). Since my tumor was estrogen positive, I've been taking a menopause forumla that contains red clover, dong quai and licorice root, as well as black cohosh. This has helped some, as well as showers in the morning and evening.
These forums are a life-line. Support, humor, caring . . . all of these things are here! {{{Hugs}}}
Julie
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It's interesting that some people have referred to friends who have disappeared since their Dx - my problem is the opposite - people reappearing in my life since my Dx. After not speaking to me for almost 3 years. Yes, my family and I were on the receiving end of an old-fashioned church shunning in Feb of '08, because after 26 years, we dared to stand up to the church leadership (highly authoritarian) over issues that most people on this forum - most normal people everywhere, actually - would consider ridiculous and silly. We subsequently left the church.
After trashing us publicly in a regular Weds. night meeting in front of the entire church membership (we were absentee by this time), church members were warned to have nothing to do with us or our family lest they become contaminated by our sin and rebellion. They were threatened that if they had contact with us, their children would be removed from the Christian school and their church membership would be revoked. As good, obedient members, they all obeyed. So these people turn away when we meet them in the mall or grocery store, pretend they didn't see us, etc. etc. and have not uttered a word to us in all this time. These are people who had babies at the same time as I did and our kids all grew up together. We were like family.
Fast forward to Sept. '10 - I now have been diagnosed with BC. It galls me that these same people who pretended we didn't exist anymore, are all of a sudden coming out of the woodwork. Phone calls, e-mails, letters, and want to know "how I'm doing" and if they can come and see me and letting me know how much they "love" me. Some want to come and pray for me. I guess 3 years hasn't been long enough for me . . . the wounds are just too deep. I really can't believe it . . . that they have the nerve after what they've put my family through. As nicely as I could, I've either not responded at all, or told them to take a flying leap, As the old saying goes, with friends like that, who needs enemies? I think they're having an attack of a guilty conscience - and I have no intention of easing them at this time. Maybe I want them to suffer just a little tiny bit, of what I have suffered these last 3 years, and now with this horrible Dx. I know, my bad.:)
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I know what you mean Pennythoughts. These "friends" seem to have a morbid curiosity. It's like they want to poke you with a stick and say ewwww, thank goodness it isn't me. And go home feeling that they did a good deed reaching out to cancer girl.
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Pennythoughts,
i also, recieved a "shunning" in my lifetime from a conservative church, that wasn't behind me when i divorced a man who was beating my kids and i; for like 15 years. i must say, there were a few members who would speak to us, but it was a horrible event in my life. unfortunately, i have been pretty closed off to churches, since then, till very recently. i was really in a bad place when 1st diagnosed, then met these wonderful and (some) christian gals on this site.
for a few years now, i have carefully begun to include the "church" in my life, and have remained a very un involved christian, church wise.
my faith to God never wavered, it was the ple who were using His name that was at issue.. you'd be surprised, yours or mine story is not that unfamiliar. and i know MY GOD is pained about the whole mess.
i'm so glad you found us, and so sorry you had to come here. most of all, i believe the Great Shepard is tending His Flock right here, invirtual space..but thats' just me..
night all gonna tuck it in Light and Love 3jaysmom
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That's it exactly, konakat. Like having contact with me will somehow meet their own needs for validation that they somehow are being compassionate. Key words, "meet their own needs." This has nothing to do with my needs. If they had really cared about me or our relationship, they would never have ended a lifelong friendship because some controlling, manipulative men told them to, all in the name of God, of course. It's just all so sickening. But there is no way I'm going to let them revive a relationship for the sole reason that I now have cancer. No way. Can you tell I'm a little bitter? It's OK, I'll get over it . . . someday.
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Okay girls - I gotta bleat. I'm going to work out how to handle it effectively later, I promise, but right now I just need to vent it.
I think I'm still in shock from my sisters who all said after I phoned them to confirm my dx (I kid you not)
- that's fantastic
- I'm so pleased
-this is great news, you must be so relieved
- etc, etc, etc
I'm sorry? It's what sort of news?
Now I didn't think getting diagnosed with bc was that great really - and yes, I know they were referring to the fact that I 'only' have a low grade DCIS. But what I heard was "So, you've got bc - that's terrific news". And maybe I'm being overly sensitive but I think their initial reaction was pretty damned insensitive.
I am the first person in my family to be diagnosed with any type of cancer - EVER (we usually get alzheimers and heart disease), so none of us have had much practice - but please!!! Who would ever say that to someone who's just learned they have bc!!!
They have one and all been very fantastic and supportive (emotionally and practically) since then, but I'm still fuming enough that I'm pretty sure I'll go incandescant if, when I get the results from my lumpectomy next week and get clear margins, they tell me how thrilled they are for me again.
Thanks for listening. This site is a godsend.
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Celetas: I have gotten similar responses from friends and family. I don't know what it is - - I think they think they're being supportive by acknowledging what they see as the "positive" in the news. But I know how you feel. In my case, yes, the tumor is small. Yes, it's early stage. Yes, the nodes were negative. I understand how they think this is all good news, But . . . it feels like the fact that you have cancer is being trivialized or minimized. That they don't recognize that no matter how "good" the news is that there is still a tremendous fear that will likely stay with you for the rest of your life. That you now have a partial boob(s) or no boob(s) at all. That even though survival rates have been increased to somewhere around 89 or 90% for early detection in BC, that means that there's still 10 out of 100 women in our shoes who aren't going to survive this disease over a period of 5 to 10 years. How do we know we won't be one of those 10? We don't. And that's what is so hard to explain to all these well-meaning, sincere people. That 90% is still only 90%. It's not 100%. I know I risk being accused of being one of those "glass half-empty" people, but that's just how I feel about it. I really try to be positive and think the best, but it's the 10% that bothers me, and probably always will. I will never be able to forget about that. That's enough to make it not "good" news, as far as I'm concerned.
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Thanks Pennythoughts - you've expressed exactly what I meant/felt perfectly. I get the very strong impression from sisters, daughters and DH that with a good path report it will soon be over and we can all forget about it.
That's what's so great about this site and the people on it - genuine understanding. I can't tell you enough how important this is for me right now.
I guess I niaively (spelling?) expected that level of understanding from family and the pollyanna stuff from acquaitances!
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NativeMainer- You are always good for a laugh! Loved the bus picture and had to immediately drag that one into my photo file for future use! Thanks!
barbe- So true- it really doesn't need to be in person to be a support group. In a lot of ways, I think it works better. I think there's a lot more honestly floating around and you don't need to worry if you've got lipstick on or, for that matter, pants. Love, love this site for information and validation!
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Thanks for THAT picture Kate! Now I'm seeing you sitting there without pants on!!!
Pennythoughts, don't let "them" into your home. They are being sent to validate that the church was "right" to shun you...that you got what you deserved! Like Elizabeth said, they want to look at you like a zoo animal, you are now caged and they are still free!
Celetas, didn't you know that the earlier the stage of breast cancer the more pink you have to wear? You will be out there running at the head of all the races and earning the most in donations to send off to some fat pocket somewhere.... You will be leading the cheers to save the ta tas!!!
Wow, am I ever cynical this morning.....'s up with me???
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Pennythoughts-can you say "hypocrite"? Having had dealings with and left a legalistic church I can tell you that they are trying to put themselves forward by "reaching out" and "showing Christ's love" to the "sick and lost." It's all about them still be obedient church members. Ignore them. They are not true Christians. Yes, I know, Christians aren't supposed to judge others, be we are supposed to look at a person's actions to determine their character. Don't think of it as wanting to make them suffer, think of it as them reaping the consequences of what they have sown.
3jays-I, too, have been very cautious about allowing church back into my life. I'm fortunate to have found a local church that is a good fit, but I do get more spiritual support from friends who are not religious and on the boards here than I do from the church leadership sometimes. Kind of sad, but there it is.
Celetas-one of the greatest functions of this board is giving us a place to vent, rant and rave (I've posted some doozies, so I know!) in a place where everyone "gets it." I firmly believe that it's almost impossible to work out an effective reaction/coping processes without first venting and releasing some of the emotional pressure. I've got to say, even though I (kind of) understand where they're coming from, how INSENSITIVE can they get??!! I wonder if people would feel the same way if pneumonia was 90% curable instead of 99% curable? Do we ever hear someone say "It's ONLY pneumonia" or "That's the best infection to get"? YEESH!!
Kate33-If you folks only knew how often I was checking these boards last summer completely nude! Right after recon it was in the 90's and humid most of the time and I would sit in my living room with my fans blowing on me and all 4 Jackson brothers pinned to the arm of my easy chair, with a big bath towel at hand in case someone came to the door. . .
Barbe-did you not sleep well last night? I hear you, though. I simply cannot do the Superwoman-bc-survivor-turned-radical-champion-of-mammograms-and-fund-raisers role that seems to be expected of me. My idea of successful coping-getting through a crisis at work and NEVER having the c-word brought up even once! (Not that I enjoyed the crisis, mind you, but . . )
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Although I m a person of deep personal faith and strive to witness to that faith daily by living and behaving as a caring, giving, loving christian, I have become very cynical about organized religion. In every church I've been involved with sooner or later there is political infighting, hypocrisy and/or bigotry and cruelty. The worst was the church my family belonged to as I grew up. During that time we had two preachers and one minister. One preacher condemned my parents from the pulpit--Dad was damned for smoking and Mom for not being a properly subservient woman and daring to voice thoughts of her own--while he was carrying on an affair with a parishioner and locking a downs syndrome daughter away in her room. The other excommunicated (which our Lutheran synod did not allow) my mother for disagreeing with him about Sunday School materials. Even today the memory still hurts.
The one true minister that we had is the point of this too long post. Pastor O was between the other two. He taught me the true meaning of faith and forgiveness. From him I learned that while I may always hurt and may never forget I can and must forgive. I struggled a long time to achieve that forgiveness before learning.
By the way, though I no longer attend church, I believe I worship through my volunteerism and my service to others.
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chabba--I remember the pain when my parents and I left a church after confronting the pastor about misuse of church money. The pastor and church leadership called us "heretics" and "sinners" who "dishonored" the pastor by making the embezzelment (sp?) public. I've never tithed monetarily to a church since. I DO tithe--of my time and abilities, and on the rare occasion of money, it goes directly to the person or family in need. They may not even be members of my church, but don't remember reading in the Bible that Christ required joining a specific church before he helped them.
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I believe "Where two or more are gathered in My name" makes a church. We are certainly more than 2 here...
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So very true Maine.
I give of my time and money mostly to our local senior center where we provide the typical senior center services and our meals are served 365 days a year. We are totally volunteer and welcome any one who needs what we offer be it activities, companionship, food or a family regardless of age or ability to pay. Our beach town of about 3500 residents has more than its fair share of homeless and below poverty level seniors. So very many of our seniors retired here and have lost most of their incomes to Enron and Wall Street. We are completely self-supporting and as one of the cooks, kitchen manager and especially as treasurer I can tell you it is getting harder and harder to make ends meet. Fortunately some of the community is beginning to step forward with a little help.
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My DH has a masters of divinity, is a licensed ordained minister. His role is a hospital chaplain and now works for the national VA chaplains office training chaplains. We have been all around the park with organized religion. I have very absolute beliefs, but we do not attend a church. Our spiritual life consists of praying together, listening to meaninful music and spending time together. Our ministry is our work. I care for our nation's veterans daily. I am a trained therapist and have a wicked sense of humor. So much craziness is done in God's name it is a shame. I pray everyone finds peace in their lives.
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"and you'll know they are Christians by their love, by their love. Yes you'll know they are Christians by their love." One of my favorite hymns. Unfortunately a lot organized Christian churches have turned to condemning others, judging, hateful accusations...actions that are not Christian! So sad, so un-Christ-like.
Pennythoughts - you are so right on. There is no easy cancer. No good news cancer. No great path reports in cancer. Cancer is cancer.
The one thing Pink October has done is "train" those who have not dealt with cancer is that breast cancer is pink..curable..the "good" cancer to get. Save the ta ta's and all that. Yeah? How about SAVE THE WOMEN!!! Our breasts are not endangered...our lives are. We'd all gladly exchange our breasts for a guaranteed life without cancer.
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Pennythoughts, just curious, have any of them apologized for their behaviour?
If they haven't, then I think you are right to protect yourself and your family.0 -
see, Penny, i said in my PM there are a lot of us that feel the same way.. i have started to watch anew t.v. preacher, i was fascinated w/ his accent, in the beg., and now listen daily for the teachings. i guess we got we need from Him when we need it.. 3jays0
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Still reeling from this one: Dear old friend of 25 years just called. Sorry she hasn't been over to visit, so busy organising the local Xmas Carols. She should be right after the 4th December when that's all done ( good thing I am not hanging out for a visit, was diagnosed 31st August!). She tells me that the most awful thing has happened. A man on the committee who is in his late 60s has just been diagnosed with bladder cancer. They removed the tumour and the worst news..it's malignant..and that's bad isn't it? " Ah,yes, mine is malignant" I replied. She says, but he has a really bad prognosis and says he might not be there to organise the carols next year.
So let me get this right. A man you hardly know on your Xmas carols committe is in his mid 60s and we are getting all worked up about him but are way too busy to visit our 46 year old friend of 20 years who also has cancer...and ( wait for it) it's the bad type too!
People. they just never cease to amaze me!
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Oh, Mum. Your story just frosted me! I have a cousin who is very self absorbed. While I was going through the diagnosis and treatment, I sent out update emails to good friends and family so that I wouldn't have to tell the same stuff over and over. Not ONCE did she even email me or call.
So after tx was done, her brother and sister decided to come visit from TX where they live and see me and both my 80 year old mother and father (who died 2 weeks later). We had a lovely visit.
So I went on Facebook this morning and she had posted the following on my wall: 'It would have been nice to c u in September if I had been asked.'
There is a reason I will never speak to her again.
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Barbara, surely you're going to let your cousin know that her brother and sister weren't invited?
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Hee hee. Don't want to stir that pot. Think I will just unfriend her. That'll do it.
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Molly 52: No, no one has apologized. They went from completely incommunicado to "we love you so much, can we come and see you and pray for you".
As far as we're concerned, any dialogue would have to include a discussion about what happened and the abusive nature of the leaders of this church group. These people refuse to have that discussion. In their minds, the leaders can do no wrong and it is WRONG to question their actions. They are God-led, so cannot be questioned. They are still obeying the "no-talk" rule, which we no longer observe. (one of the unspoken rules of an abusive or controlling group.) We have to be the ones that are wrong. It is generally understood that in order for us to have fellowship with these people again, we must go to the leaders and "repent" for our rebellion. Our rebellion? Disagreement with leaders over isues regarding their treatment of our children and people in general.
So them coming out of the woodwork when I get cancer is not only confusing for us, but infuriating. I have now become one of their projects. How do I know this? Because, at one time, I'm ashamed to admit, I was one of them and thought the same way, It is a destructive cult, even though the beliefs are (mostly) Bible based. As I've learned since, a cult is not determined solely by the beliefs it holds, but rather by the behaviours and practices demonstrated.
In many ways, the painful exit from this group almost 3 years ago has been more devastating to me and my family than my diagnosis of BC has been. Recovery from spiritual abuse, if you have healthy support from family & friends and professional counselling, can take 5 to 7 years. Some people, unfortunately, never recover and their ability to trust again and have any kind of connection or meaningful relationship with God or his church is damaged forever.
Ladies, I'm sorry if this is too much info. Hopefully you can all bear with me through this - me unloading on you all about our recent history. It is something that is very difficult to deal with, but very therapeutic to write about. The BC crisis is just added on top of this one, which I am not over by a long shot. Hopefully someday . . .
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Pennythoughts,
Lean on us. For some here, breast cancer is the turd in the punch bowl of their lives and for others, it is just one more thing on top of many many issues, if not spiritual, then financial, other health or psychological problems of their own or dear ones, you get the picture. So since it helps, keep it up, that is what we are here for - for each other.
Jule E
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Pennythoughts - fire away with as much info as you like (if ppl don't want to know about it they can always decide to skip it...no biggie). Agree it's very therapeutic to be able to really say what you think/feel; for me I chat to ppl here because, as one of the thousands of wise women here said, you guys "get it".
That said, I'm not religous so I don't get that part, but I reckon that fundamentally if people in your life are decent, you'll know it and if they're not, they'll show it. What you do with it and how you process it is up to you (but you'd be a much bigger person than me if you could forgive their deliberate, cold, calculating lock-out of you and your family). I like Barbe's "wherever 2 or more are gathered in my name" approach...maybe it's in the choosing to be 2 or more that appeals.
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Pennythoughts, please don't give yourself a time limit on healing from the spritual abuse. You may heal faster than 5-7 years when you put it into perspective of what is happening in your life right now. Remember, though they were supposed to be leaders of God, they weren't God. They were just small men and women with control issues. That's all.
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Barbe - you are right. I guess I just quoted that as part of the extensive reading and education I gave myself after leaving in an attempt to figure out how I spent 26 years in a group like that and never to do it again! It was devastating, then humiliating and embarrassing. After we left, people said things to us like, "You seem like intelligent people. How did you become involved in something like that?" I know now that it had nothing to do with intelligence. It was more like the frog in the boiling water syndrome. By the time you realize that you are boiling to death, it's too late. It's behavioural and mind control that is done very subtly, and over a very long period of time.
I only know that it's been almost 3 years, and I still feel very messed up over the whole thing. I don't want to put a time limit on recovery at all. I just feel sometimes that I will never recover. I'm pretty much past the grief. Now I'm angry. I know in my head that what these people represent is not God. That said, I really don't have a problem with God, but I have a huge problem with organized religion.
But just like this BC journey, one day at a time. At this point in my life - maybe not forever but right now - I cannot/will not attend another church, I've tried, but just can't do it. On the other hand, I have some very good friends who also left the same church after we did (yeah, it was kind of a big blow up and we were the catalyst - that's why we're so evil
) and we are helping each other through this. Now I have all of you. Bonus. Thank you, thank you, thank you. Your replies and and suport mean so much. Even if you don't understand this particular dynamic of spiritual abuse, that's OK. I respect each and every one of you and what you have to offer to all of these discussions.0 -
My parents and I separately left a very controlling church about 20 years ago. My sister and her family did not. There isn't any shunning and we've agreed to not talk about it for the sake of our relationships with each other, but it's still very difficult. The church always comes before family; always. And this is probably as good as it's ever going to get.
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When it comes to sororities and religion I am a GDI ;-)
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