TRIPLE POSITIVE GROUP
Comments
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Jackboo it said '"Our results indicate that damage responses in benign cells... may directly contribute to enhanced tumour growth kinetics," wrote the team.'
They don't know for sure. We also don't know if this is treatment for advanced or early cancer. We don't know if this is a good study. They noticed a change but did all these people get cancer again? Even the title of the article says "Chemotherapy can backfire and boost cancer growth: Study" It doesn't mean it will.
We know that chemo and radiation can cause leukemia, although rare. We are all looking for a better solution than chemo (herceptin is a start) but right now it's the best we have.
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The Juven/Armor comes in orange and fruit punch. My cousin mixes it with Lipton tea in the bottle. I just mix it with water and drink it. There is sugar in it, so it is sweet, but not too bad. Tastes like really weak kool-aid.
I agree with Lago about the switches, with one addition. I think there will eventually be some kind of viral link for SOME cancer. Some sort of exposure.
In my case, I believe it was genetics that allowed the cancer to grow, and ENVIRONMENT that decided WHERE it would grow.
Both sides of my family are riddled with cancer. Colon, prostate, kidney, brain, lung, and now breast. (I believe genetically we were pre-disposed to eventually have cancer.) Like I said, my cousin and I are only 10 years apart.
Why the breast? I do believe there is merit in the birth control, estrogen in cow's milk theory. Also stress. Diet plays in there too, but I've been pretty healthy...(despite my love affair with chocolate and tequila). So the switches are there and different for every person.
Like the color of eyes, some in the family get blue....some don't..no matter how bad they treat their bodies. I have family members in their late 60's who smoke 3 packs aday, are over-weight..ok, obese, and live on fried foods/fast food for every meal...no fresh fruit and veggies. They're fine as far as cancer goes.
In my head, my cousin and I were gentically gonna get some sort of cancer no matter what. We got BC because of the times...all the estrogen in everything....
That's my thoughts anyway.
Yes I did FINALLY find a skinny Margarita...at the airport when we left! But I went ahead and bought the stuff...made my own! lol
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I agree that there might be a viral or mycotoxin link with some cancers, its already been proven that some cancers are directly results of viruses.
With that theory then...tequila works...right? It would kill all viruses : D
Skinny Girl Margaritas all around!!!0 -
Hi Lago
I thought it was referring to metastatic cancer not early stage but yes the key word is may. Some of these articles end up reading in a scary manner. Wish I hadnt posted about it now!
I hope that soon chemo will be replaced with less toxic drugs.
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Jackboo don't worry about posting this information. Best to post and have people discuss.
One thing we all must remember about studies. The details are important. There are a lot of bad, weak or small studies. Just because it works once doesn't make it so. This is why it is always best to bring the study to your doctors attention. They are more familiar with the details… and if they aren't they can understand them when they read it.
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JackBoo: Please keep posting! These are good studies and without them, we get no where. For me, I read so much during treatments and burned myself out and I do find them frightening at this point, but we need them and just because some may not read them, I believe the majority do.
TEQUILA shots all around!
Lago: Love the switch!
TonLee: I'm getting some of that potion!
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I agree with everyone's comments. Just like there are many sub-types of BC, it makes sense that different things, whether virus, environment, stress, or some combination that causes the switch to flip to on. My Mil died from what they thought was Alzheimer's . My SIL insisted in a brain autopsy, so the boys went along, and big surprise, she actually had something in the family of Pick's disease that Each kid has a 50% chance of carrying. So far, two know they carry the gene. Now, if we can figure out what to do to keep it from turning on....
I have done some reading on the viral thing. It is pretty interesting. I even read something a while back on a connection with warts and final infection, but I seem to remember not putting a lot of faith in it.
I am at Wake Forest for my 5th vaccination. Two more trips, one for the vaccine and one for a blood test (so annoying), and then done until my booster next May.
I was delayed in the Atlanta airport for two hours last night (didn't get to my hotel until 1)., and what do you know, the lights of a Fridays restaurant were winking at me, begging me to come in. So a margarita and some fries were in order while I waited. Healthy diest be damned.0 -
Fluff!! I could have met you at the airport! I am in ATL, bummer!
Good luck with the vaccines. It sounds so promising.0 -
At least now they are not still stupidly sticking their heads in the sand and denying that chemo can cause more breast cancer. Any true scientific investigation doesn't stop at proving the benefits of treatment without investigating to see what the drawbacks are.
The difference is that they can't just continue to pretend that everything else under the sun except chemo is responsible for recurrence or mets.
And there is where there would be some clearer rationale for making much more of an effort to actually bother to find out (as in prove) which patients benefit from the use of trastuzumab used alone.
It may seem illogical, but throwing the book at it doesn't necessarily mean better outcomes.
A.A.
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The possibility that chemo may cause more breast cancer not that it does.0
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I found the actual article. It was done on prostate cancer patients. It was done to examine how cancer becomes resistant to repeated chemo treatments.
Acquired resistance to anticancer treatments is a substantial barrier to reducing the morbidity and mortality that is attributable to malignant tumors. Components of tissue microenvironments are recognized to profoundly influence cellular phenotypes, including susceptibilities to toxic insults. Using a genome-wide analysis of transcriptional responses to genotoxic stress induced by cancer therapeutics, we identified a spectrum of secreted proteins derived from the tumor microenvironment that includes the Wnt family member wingless-type MMTV integration site family member 16B (WNT16B). We determined that WNT16B expression is regulated by nuclear factor of κ light polypeptide gene enhancer in B cells 1 (NF-κB) after DNA damage and subsequently signals in a paracrine manner to activate the canonical Wnt program in tumor cells. The expression of WNT16B in the prostate tumor microenvironment attenuated the effects of cytotoxic chemotherapy in vivo, promoting tumor cell survival and disease progression. These results delineate a mechanism by which genotoxic therapies given in a cyclical manner can enhance subsequent treatment resistance through cell nonautonomous effects that are contributed by the tumor microenvironment.
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Soltantino my onc told another patient I know who is HER2+ but ER-/PR- that her risk was the highest in the first 3 years. If she was going to recur it would most likely be during that time.
Triple positive risk is also highest in the first 3 years. I think for anyone who is ER+/PR+ regardless of HER2+ status the first 5 is the most likely. I have also read that distant recurrence (time wise) tends to be more common in lower grade. So basically us grade 3 (and maybe grade 2) if we recur it's usually earlier than later. No guarantees though.
I would be interested in what your onc says.
BTW I too have read many times about the initial testing of Herceptin in patients with mets without chemo. The goal (Dr. Slamon) of herceptin initially was to replace chemo.
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Sol and lago - It makes sense in that a recurrence for early stage is probably growth from stray bc cells in the periphery that survived treatment. Since HER2+ tend to grow pretty fast, after 2 years those stray cells might get to a detectable size and be identified as a recurrence. I would also be interested to hear what your onc says.0
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sol- I used the elastogel caps just during the taxotere. I had some trouble keeping my head cold during the long first infusion but did pretty good during the others. Since I didn't use the caps during carbo I lost much of my hair, I am guessing about 70-80% BUT it came back in super quick. I think the cold caps helped it come in quick. So even if you lose some hair using the cold caps I think they still provide a benefit. Are you icing your fingernails during the taxotere? I also did this and was fortunate not to have a problem.0
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Hi all! On the question on recurrence, my MO said that the most critical time would be the first three to 5 years out for triple+. My recurrence % was 35. But, with HER2+ the risk only decreases and never completely. She also stated that breast cancer unlike other cancers, beyond stage 0, is never considered cured, only NED or remission. She wasn't trying to scare me, I asked for it straight up, no sugar. My RO said and I quote "your risk falls out at 35%, but we all know that the odds are really 0 or 100%, you'll either reccur or not".
As far as chemo possibly causing other cancer, it makes sense. It is a toxin, destroying cells and damaging DNA, but it's the best we have to date. Hopefully this will change for our children and grands. The same goes for radiation. My uncle was one those army guys that were made to witness the nuclear tests in the desert. He ended up with three different cancers with Leukemia finally taking his life. And yes, one was BC.
Knowing now how chemo affected me and really didn't do too much for me, I probably would not have attempted it. Unfortunately, Herceptin did not work for either. Maybe something else will come along soon.
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It is hard to keep in mind the difference between mets patients and earlier stage patients, but doing trastuzumab alone with early stage is quite a different matter.
The comparison of use of trastuzumab for chemo-naive newly diagnosed patients with stage IV is subject to the rather significant limitation that by the time mets are established, the tumor burden is much greater than it is for those without mets.
That is a far cry from having the intact immune system deal with the far less significant tumor burden (excised, not still in place such as with mets) of earlier stage bc, through the use of trastuzumab alone.
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Soltantio-No, I have not recurred, that I know of anyway! LOL The 35% recurrence chance was given to me after I completed what I could.
It was my uncle that was subjected to the blasts. Unfortunately, those men were not given a choice and it was done to them under the guise of 'not dangerous'. Haha. His experience had an overwhelming influence on my choice not to do rads. I simply do not trust it and will take my chances.
I agree that there should be some tracking (maybe to further a study) of individual choices in treatment. If someone chooses not to do a particular treatment that the doc's recommend (normally they could not do this for ethical reasons) but I am a firm believer in making your own decisions and standing by them. I wonder if any country that has a national health care system has tracked this?
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Moni is that 35% because you couldn't do all the treatment?
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Lago- Yes. Allergic (anaphylaxis) to all the chemos, Herceptin, etc. The chemo damaged my immune system to the extent that I had 5 rounds of septic shock and 11 episodes of sepsis, gallbladder disease, c-diff, MRSA, Klebsiella, a fungal inf and a yeast infection, thrombosis and plebitis where any IV's were, and renal failure, EF decrease. I do not take chemo lightly, it's serious stuff. Fortunately, most people don't react that way!
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Soltantio- My uncle was 62 when he died. And yes, he was angry about it. He was a biologist and was wary of this before he was exposed.
Also, I have residual diet issues. I have been forced to become (kicking and screaming) a vegan-ish person! No dairy, meat, gluten! I was so not into this type of diet before! I guess it is better, but I really hate it.
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GeeW,
Yup. Tequila is my cancer elixir;)
Hey.....the exchange thread is a nightmare as far as I'm concerned. There are so many different women coming and going...I can't keep track....so let me ask this here with you ladies. And forgive me if this has been asked, and answered already.
For those who had to wear the band after exchange. How long did you wear the band? How long before you started exercising again? Upper body? I'm going to research how long it takes scar tissue to form the pocket....but I want real women, real world input as well.
Lago? Anyone else?
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Here is what the general internet sources say...
Capsule formation around a breast implant begins in the first few weeks after placement of the implant. By about 2 to 3 months, the capsule formation has completed, but continues to mature and remodel for several months following. A contracture occurs when the scar tissue begins to constrict around the implant causing distortion in the implant which may be visible, palpable, or both.
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Tonlee I believe you asked me before. I think it was something like 4-6 weeks at the most but I just don't remember. I really think it depends on if the new girls start dropping.
As far as exercise I have never started any chest exercises. My PS doesn't want me to doing them. My PT also said she didn't think I should do them. I actually waited 6 months before I started strength training again. I wanted to be sure everything was done. I hated starting only to have to stop again. Remember I did have a revision and more fat transfer 3-4 months after my exchange
Moni I too am shocked they kept doing chemo in your situation.
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TonLee: Don't do a lot of tequila; my elixir was (is) a Rusty Nail! That's scotch and drambuie, or as I like to say "scotch and scotch".
Just spent last 2 hrs catching up on all the posts I've missed. I have always lived and worked in high pressure, stressful situations and don't see that changing any time soon. And with the BRCA2+, er/pr+, her2+, guess I was a disaster just waiting to happen!
But life goes on and we take it one day at a time!0 -
Hi to everybody
It's 2.30am here in UK and I am up scared to death. Following my period related breast pain last week, I think I have a change to my lumpectomy scar. A slight indent. This is how my first lump appeared.
I am 18 months out. Please don't let this be a reoccurrence. What acan you do at this time of the morning.0 -
i didn't wear the band, so can't help you there. I as allowed to go back to working out after a month. Started into it slowly and built up. I could walk all I wanted during that time.
moni-my friend's dad was the same and recently died of leukemia also. She gathered all the records and was able to prove that her dad was at the site, etc. The army just gave her mom $50,000 as settlement, and I think she is going to keep earning a monthly stipend.0 -
jackboo last time you had a pretty big tumor at 2cm. That's what caused the indent. Granted any change you must go get these seen. Given that you have changes with your cycle this could be just that. Don't jump to conclusions but like I said you need to get this examined. Being that you had a lumpectomy you do want to be very over cautious.
Please keep us posted
♥ ♥ ♥
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Lago, yes my tumour was 2.6cm at surgery. I had a mammo middle of March but how much reassurance can I gain from that? I will try and get an US tomorrow if I can persuade the docs! Have been in with similar worries before. Don't want to be neurotic but not letting it go either.
I've been working out too. Could that be why the scar is a little stretched/different. So tired. 3am now.
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Jackboo, deep breath. You will get it seen quickly. Much love and hugs. We will pray for it to be nothing.
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It's at times like this that I begin to question having a lumpectomy and not a full mx
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