TRIPLE POSITIVE GROUP
Comments
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Steiner,
I started a regular workout schedule after rads. I had attempted it earlier and went in fits and starts because of post neo chemo lumpectomy and then my nemesis...rads .
I went slowly at first doing 15 minutes treadmill in an airconditioned gym ..it was June...treadmill and worked my speed and incline up gradually. Then did 1/2 hour on upper and lower body weight bearing exercises every other day too. In good weather I'd swim starting slowly too. By the time my final Herceptin was done in October I was on a relatively rigorous regime.
I'm in Florida now and slowed my outdoor power walking down a notch ot two and cut it into two sessions instead of one because it has been hot and humid. Definitely struggled with the heat and humity. I'm due for an echo next month. EF has been over 60 all along. Will let you
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As an aside....
When I got to Florida I was pushing myself to do a tough power walking workout at one time. Then in my " new me" thinking mode I said to myself why am I rushing this? Why am I making this into drudge ry? It's sunny, the birds are singing , the palm trees are swaying, Pelicans are diving , I've got hair , I'm alive and so far NED. i'm gonna enjoy this experience as much as I can everyday. Since then...I cut it into two separate sessions . I push myself but I make sure I stop along the way to enjoy the beauty around me.
I can't wait to get home to springtime , summer and fall to do the same.0 -
TCH feb 25. And feel like a sledge hammer since Thursday.(neulasta shot Wed) Today got up showered but still I'm bed. Food. Not interesting. I hope I'll get some energy soon.
Am I suppose to push myself??? It's cold outside so walks are out. Since the breast surgery in Jan. I've never been like this. Not sure what I should do. First day back on the board. That tired. Ate carrot ginger soup and potato. Very weird for me. Usually love vegs but nothing seems good.
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Sasha, it sounds like today you just need to rest. When you're feeling a little better you can push yourself to take a short walk, and once you're out, maybe the walk will be a little longer than you think. I'm sure the weather doesn't help but you can still walk in the snow! But maybe not today.
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Shasha10
Listen to your body. Your body has taken a hit like it never has before and hopefully never will again. Ten days post chemo is a low point in your immune system. If you are tired....rest....
Pay attention to how you feel. Maybe keep a little diary. It may hlp you with other treatments. With many of us the first one was the worst.
Some of us had taste issues too and lots of us eventually found foods that went down easy, i actully developped cravings. Tomato juice....Most of it has too much salt but I dreamed about it.
Watermelon did the trick for me. drink though. You must drink lots of fluids.0 -
Sasha,
It does get better!
I found that even on my bad days, walking helped. I felt that getting things moving was a good thing. Whereas before I went out, I could barely move, I found that once I got going, it got easier. I always felt better when I returned than before I started.
Definately DRINK A LOT!!!! It helps flush the chemo drugs out of your system and lessens some of the side effects.
Good luck!
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Shasha10 - in some ways I think the first one was my hardest because I didn't know what to expect - mind you, I still have three more to go so who knows what the future will bring - I can only speak from the perspective of having been through three and on the edge of number four.
Did you take Claritin prior to the Neulasta shot, i.e. a few days before? Also, you can take it three or four days after the shot (please jump in other triple positives - if you have a different dosage on this).
Regarding eating - yes, I agree - food doesn't seem interesting (good way to put it) and it's a constant challenge to find something that even seems the least bit appetizing, however, this is what I've experienced: at no other time in my life have I ever seen the food/energy cycle at work like it has been during the dark days post each chemotherapy treatment. Of course, I've always known that food = energy but I had never seen the proof of how it actually worked until chemotherapy. I can feel listless, no appetite, etc. but this inner-voice says "you really do have to eat" - so I will have small "meals" every three or four hours and, at least for me, the effect is overwhelming. I suddenly feel better - more human, if you will.
The first time I made the mistake of:
a - not eating enough protein
b - not drinking enough fluids
For rounds two and three I really increased my fluid intake (it can be so hard to do when nothing sounds good to either eat or drink) and greatly increased my protein intake. The only way I've been able to increase the protein is with Fage Greek yogurt (0% fat). I started eating it while we were doing the 17-Day Diet (which turned into a real lifestyle change) over a year ago but at some point during the preparation for chemo I read one of TonLee's posts regarding the body needing about 100 grams of protein a day to rebuild itself during chemo so I fell back on my favorite way to eat Fage, which is mixing it with a small amount of fresh squeezed Trader Joe's brand orange juice. Eating meat, i.e. chicken, fish, beef, in the days following the infusion is almost impossible for me and the Fage yogurt has been my saving grace (thus far). As she mentioned in one of her posts in the archives, one of those large containers has about 92 grams of protein (approximately 23 grams per cup).
Also, the integrative physician at the cancer center where I'm going recommended a probiotic that they carry at their pharmacy. I've been taking it this time and I think it has been better than the other probiotic I had been taking.
If your digestive system just feels overall yucky you might want to consider taking Prilosec (I take the generic equivalent). I had been taking it every day but I just gave myself a 4-5 day break from it this past week; however, I just started in again this morning (my next infusion is this Wednesday).
Regarding liquids - I buy electrolyte-enhanced water from Trader Joe's. I don't know if there's anything to it but that's what I've been buying during chemotherapy. Also, at the recommendation of someone on the January 2013 chemotherapy thread I bought some watermelon/strawberry Gatorade to mix in with the water to give it some flavor. The flavor is surprisingly refreshing. It does have calories so I try to mix it with the electrolyte enhanced water. Also, Jello has tasted good as well as Dreyer's frozen fruit bars and sugar-free Popsicles.
I'm not sure if any of this sounds appealing to you but I will say that by adding the protein in I felt less fatigue during rounds two and three. Again, I'm still in the midst of it so things could change. The one thing I've noticed about chemotherapy is that my body often (!!) feels like a stranger to me. My mantra (one of many) is "This, too, shall pass."
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Re: walking -
I made a New Year's resolution that I would start walking 20 minutes per day. When I had my appointment with the integrative physician she upped it to 30 minutes a day which has been a bit of a challenge during chemotherapy (my first infusion was January 2). The integrative physican said that if I needed to I could break it up into 15 minutes twice a day and I suppose even ten minutes three times a day. I have missed six or seven days since the first of the year but I agree with cypher, for the most part, I feel better once I am out there walking. For one thing, walking helps the lymphatic fluids move through your body (I'm 99.9% sure I read that here in the archives of this thread). I prefer walking outdoors for a number of reasons and I live in the Los Angeles area so the weather is far more conducive this time of year than it is for those who live in colder climates. We have a YMCA membership and one or two days I've had to go inside and use the treadmill.
The integrative physician cited studies that show that exercising 30 minutes a day greatly reduces the chances of getting breast cancer in the first place and also reduces the chances of recurrence. Some days, that's the ONLY thing that motivates me to put on my running shoes and go.
If you are interested in starting to walk during chemotherapy and haven't been walking I would highly recommend starting out at twenty minutes per day. For some reason, that extra 10 minutes is a real b*tch but 20 minutes is really doable. You can always give yourself a few weeks at 15 or 20 minutes and then move it up to 30 minutes.
On the other hand, I agree completely with what ashla said regarding LISTENING TO YOUR BODY! On the days I haven't walked - that's what I was doing (listening to my body).
I have found that it's easier to do it in the morning - although I usually go with my husband after he gets finished with his workday.
Additionally, I use a phone app called Runkeeper. I think they still offer a free version. I just find it much easier to track everything as I'm going - i.e. miles per hour, calories burnt, etc.
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Pbrain-I also took Acetyl l carnitine. I had very little neuropathy. I don't know if that was why, but I kept taking it. They were doing some studies on using it for neuropathy in chemo.
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This article at cancer.gov mentions acetyl l carnitine for neuropathy:
http://www.cancer.gov/aboutnci/ncicancerbulletin/archive/2010/022310/page6
ETA: Here's a link re: a clinical trial -
http://clinicaltrials.gov/show/NCT00775645
(I have a bottle of it - I'm going to ask my oncologist if it's okay to take it)
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Fluff some studies actually showed it didn't help and in some cases made it worse BUT they were taking megadoses. I know that once I started to take it (normal dose) I never had pins & needles in my left hand again. This article starts off saying it had mixed results but I am not a member so I can't read the rest: http://oncologystat.com/news/AcetyllCarnitine_Yields_Mixed_Results_for_ChemoInduced_Neuropathy__US.html
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Shasha: Nothing tasted good to me either. Keep trying different foods because you must eat. Peanut butter and crackers started working for me. Carnation Instant breakfast worked too...things I never consumed before. Ice cream also worked for me. Vegetables which I LOVED before didn't do it. You just have to keep trying different foods and you should find one that works for you and with more food, you should see more energy! Do remember to consume at least 100 ounces of water a day....I truly think that helped me because I never had the C or D, except C after my first chemo! I also made sure to eat dehydrated fruit-prunes/plums (forced myself really).
We all just have to figure out what works for us individually!
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Thanks guys on the nueropathy info. I know I just have to be patient. My Mom has a good friend who said she couldn't feel her legs from a bit below the knees when she finished chemo, and she is fine now. You guys make me feel better...and Cypher, no hot flashes. I went through menopause before the diagnosis and didn't have them then either. I'm thinking that is kind of weird.
Ok, on protein--this is stuff I was trained in...in general, animal sources of protein will have a large mix of the 21 essential amino acids we need. Amino acids are the building block of proteins and we can actually make a lot of our own, but essential ones we can't, so we need to get them from outside sources (like vitamins and minerals).
Interestingly, while there are numerous amino acids (essential and non-essential) we only have about 6 mechanisms for their absorption in the gut. This is called "competitive" absorption because overloading the system with say, L-lysine will prevent the absorption of other amino acids that use that mechanism to get into our systems. I cracked up because a doctor I worked with for a few years was taking lysine supplements to bulk up. I asked him if he actually knew the biochemistry behind what he was doing and he didn't. You don't want to overload the system with one amino acid because then a bunch of them won't get absorbed.
Plants do have a good amount of protein, but like us, they may not make certain amino acids. So you can end up with nourishment issues if you are vegetarian and not eating a mix of plants. This is also why they say milk is nature's perfect food. Unlike corn or rice, it contains the entire assortment of amino acids, especially those we can't make.
I'm pretty much a flexitarian. I don't crave nor even like meat, which I know is not common amongst humans. But I do eat small quantities of it because I know if I don't, I could deal with issues from lack of a myriad of proteins.
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Shasha, here are some things that worked for me - perrier with lime -- or the far less expensive trader joe's version of the same thing. Water tasted funky to me for huge chunks of chemo. Thankfully it tastes normal to me again. I made smoothies with nonfat organic kefir, protein powder (whey based), frozen berries, and some nasty looking kombucha/chia drink they sell at whole foods. You could just use juice.
Gosh taht's a short list -- everything I am thinking if now, I think -- yeah it was fine but at some point more and more foods had a vaguely nauseating j'nes'c'est qua to them. I made a lot of chicken stir fries with vegetables over brown rice. THey were just meh but nutritious. I was also doing hte cold caps so I couldn't freeze very much stuff. I spent a FORTUNE at whole foods with prepared foods and such, but whatever. It's not every day you get to have chemo (get, hah!). I figured any part of it I could throw money at to make it less awful, I did. (Like the cold caps.) Now that I'm all done with treatment (well, pretty much), my goal is to make a lot of money this year to make up for 2012! Well, one of my goals.
I didn't have a lot of nausea so I would eat spicy foods -- they were very flavorful so that helped. (Things sounded nauseating, but it was mostly mental, didn't have a lot of actual nausea.) So if you are similarly blessed, maybe that would help?
It's a sucky period of time but it passes so ... just try to be patient with yourself.
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Sasha, I found sweets were appealing to me after TCH (I only had one round and it killed my appetite all together). I have never been a sweet eater, much prefer "salty snacks". So I leaned towards sweets that also contained protein and fiber (like Cliff Bars). I know they are calorie-dense, but I really didn't want to eat anything.
Hang in there. We all know what you are going through!
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Sasha my taste issues were minor. Things like nuts (including peanut butter) and pepper tasted very bitter to me. I know that doesn't sound like a big deal but I eat a lot of nuts and spicy peppery food. I learned to avoid it. Water was fine for me but I hear adding anything citrus (lemon, lime, orange juice) to the water really helps. If you are dealing with metallic taste use plastic utensils to eat.
Pbrain I did go through chemopause really pretty minor. Some warm flashes between 2-5am depending on what I ate. Never sweaty or moody. They decreased when I started Anastrozole. Now only happens when I eat a lot of certain hot peppers (cayenne I think) but so minor that sometimes I'm not even sure it's a flash.
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I took Claritin and haven't had any aches. So I attributed to that. Will try whey tomorrow with my fruit shake trying my best w water will try some others tomorrow.
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Shasha it's fluids not just water. *Soup (broth types recommended) counts as well as any beverage that isn't loaded with salt or caffeine.
*Cheese soup is not a soup, it's a dip.
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I had French toast today. First time since dx that I ate pure starch. Will try to add a broth later. Thx
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Maple syrup doesn't count as fluids.
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Lago,
The general rule of thumb is if you can do 3 set of 10 without really struggling with the last set, then it is time to either increase the weight, OR, do more reps.
I found once I hit a certain point in weight training (I use 10-30 pound hand weights) at home, I had to just increase my reps to keep from buying more weights...lol
If you can't work your pecs it will be especially hard to get tone arms .... unless you spend a lot of time doing isolation reps....and I don't have the patience for that. Plus I'm a little surprised your PS says that....essentially when you work the other major muscles (the back) and don't work the pecs, it causes the back to be stronger than the front which is an imbalance that can cause big problems down the road. Not the least of which leads to back injury.
I don't know what your trainer means for the cross trainer? I don't lean at all (except when I choose to work my biceps) on my cross trainer. That's why it is imperative to buy one that fits your body and stride. If you're leaning, it's too big for you.
I'll be honest here, the best thing about mine?...I can jump on it in my underwear with my hair all crazy and sleep still in my eyes! I'd never go to the gym like that...lol. Plus I put a mirror up beside it so I can see all the muscles I'm working. Nothing is better motivation than watching fat jiggle around while in your underwear! lol
(My husband and sons all think I'm a little craaaaazy for working out in my underwear...but sometimes I go fashionista and wear my pajamas!)
And since it is in the house I never, ever have a reason to skip a workout.
If you'd like me to put together a homeworkout for you, using your weights, and body weight...I could do that...I think if you don't rest more than 30 seconds between sets you can get it all done in under an hour.
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Ashla,
I couldn't agree more! Enjoy those walks!
Shasha,
I encourage you to get up and get moving. Even if it is just walking around the house for 15 minutes. If you wait until you "feel" like it, it may never happen. 2-3 days right after Neulasta were usually the worst for me, but after that I didn't accept any reason (short of fever) for not moving.
This isn't me who recommends this. It is Harvard Medical School. They're doing research (have published some) that shows exercise during chemo (taking it down to 50% of pre-tx workout and working up from there) helps manage SEs and a host of other things.
Yes, you are going to feel crappy.
Do it anyway. In every instance (but once or twice), I always felt better after than I did when I started.
The real kicker is, if you don't start moving now, by the end of tx you're really going to be hurting. I was in tx with a woman who spent the first 2-3 days after tx in bed. By the 3rd tx it increased to a week, then by the last tx, she couldn't even walk up 10 steps at the hospital without stopping every couple steps. It took her months to recover.
The weekend after finishing rads I took my kids to Legoland. We spent an entire week swimming and walking every day. No way I could have done that if I stopped moving during chemo.
Couldn't agree with LeeA more. I was hospitalized after my first tx for FIVE days. Protein is essential during chemo. (And staying hydrated as well.) I didn't realize HOW important and attempted to keep my normal eating schedule/items. Lordy.
HERCEPTIN EXERCISE.
Can't remember who asked.
My cardiologist recommended it to help keep my heart strong (after we discovered Herceptin damaged it). He told me to push as hard as I wanted/could. Wouldn't hurt me a bit.
I wouldn't suggest fasting, taking Herceptin, and going to work out though...like some boneheads around here ~ahem~ (cough) me (cough)
Of course be sure to check with your ONC!
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Having broth now. Thx
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Tonlee I do think most cross trainers/ellipticals are too big for me. That's why I don't use the arms any more. I also agree about imbalance not working the pecks but I know I still work them. Just don't do any exercises that isolate them. The only exercises that I feel I can breeze through are the ones that use my biceps/tricepts… and I don't want them to get any bigger.
I would love to see what you recommend. My current work out focuses more on lower body and core. Getting the strength training down to 60 minutes would be great! I am getting a little board with some of my current exercises.
Yay Sasha is having broth!
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I am real nervous I have a bone scan tomorrow and chest xray I will let you all know if everything is ok.
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I'm 2 weeks past tx #1 of taxol and experiencing similar appetite issues, Shasha. Usually, I can guzzle water but it's been tasting weird so I didn't drink enough the first week - BIG mistake. I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced digestion/elimination issues other than Pbrain, but man oh man, my bum hurts! I'm still recovering from the forceps delivery my little one required in January so that probably hasn't helped but I have learned my lesson and am constantly drinking water now, with a slice of lemon to add some flavour.
Tonlee, that's the same reason I've never been able to join a gym - I don't think they'd let me show up in my saggy underpants and tank top. Or want me singing at the top of my lungs, for that matter...!
(Sorry to just jump in to the thread, I've been reading for some time and just caught up!)
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good luck ang7894 We all had those scans. The key is not to worry about this unless they tell you the actually found something. Don't assume they will.
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I forget what protein powder I used during chemo, but right now I have Jillian Michaels whey protein, vanilla flavor that I picked up at Sams club. In one scoop, there are 100 calories, 7 carbs, 3 sugars, 15 G protein and a bunch of other stuff. It has buttermilk powder, a little fructose and some stevia. I mixed it tonight with Fage no fat yogurt, a little milk, spinach strawberries and half a banana. It is delish. Higher on sugar with the fruit, but hopefully not too bad.
For the taxol folks, I did not do mega doses of Acetyl l carnitine, but I did use more than the daily recommendation. My fingers still get cold easily, but that is about it. I also took b and d vitamins, but I think that was it.
Also, for me, cooked food did not taste good. Cold stuff was good and fruit. Water tasted awful. I drank iced tea, mostly decaf. Wine felt like acid.
Lago....as far as I am concerned, maple syrup is liquid, therefore it counts. I'm sticking to that.0 -
Maple Syrup is about 66% sugar… sorry it does not count as a fluid.
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Liquid sugar.....the fluid of gods! Lol
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