A place to talk death and dying issues
Comments
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Rosevalley, I don't see why they WOULDN'T take a body with BMX. (Warning: if you don't want to read any details, stop reading NOW - I am about to write a couple of things about what happens in the lab).
Each human body is unique, the muscles and blood vessels and nerves and organs don't always look like they do in the textbooks, and are often located in different places than you would expect. Some people have had heart attacks, emphysema, and even undiagnosed cancers and unrecognized birth defects! Many don't have an appendix, ovaries, uterus. But overall, students learn from these bodies and from each other. Labs usually have several bodies, so students have an opportunity to actually compare the uniqueness of each human being. The human body is an amazing and wonderful creation, and the students learn to recognize this, as well as the individual variations that occur, whether by nature or by surgery. I hope this helps.0 -
I read about body donation in AARP - the section where people write in. What a relief it was to make the decision to donate my body to science! The paperwork was simple - one page - signed by two wittnesses and not even notarized. I do not want my family to have the financial burden of my death and I do not want them to spend the small amounts of money I will be leaving them through life insurance. I am donating my body to Albany Medical Center. They will even transport my body 3 hours to Albany for no charge. The only stipulation they have is that my body be in tact - not mutilated in an accident. So, if I can manage to die from cancer and not a car accident - I will be all set. (My ashes will be returned to my family in one year). My family is fine with the plan as we are not a ceremonial, funeral-type family. We are very private concerning family matters and would all rather just pass away and have our ashes buried in the beautiful mountains we live in. (Wow, I am very thankful for this thread. I write on many other threads and find everyone supportive in their own way. I find, however, that I have to be careful about what I write on what thread. Some threads accept my realistic views and some do not as many of the people posting on the thread are not Stage IV - Thank goodness they are not - I hope they never are for their sake....)
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It's interesting to me to hear other perspectives on the 'final wishes'. Where I live, there's often a viewing followed by a next day service. The casket is delivered to the local cemetery and a luncheon is held after the service. If it's a veteran's funeral, there's the folding of the American flag and a 21 gun salute. Very much pomp and circumstance. I don't have any problem with it. I also don't have any problem with someone donating their remains to science, or going to direct cremation, whatever. It's all so personal. It's just interesting to learn there are different wishes for everyone.
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I hope it is still OK if I offer an occasional comment? You can do both donation and pomp if you wish. A friend of mine's mother wanted her body to be donated to science. They were still able to do all the traditional things, which was the wish of both the mother and the family. There was a big church Memorial Service with all the trimmings after her death (but no body, of course). When her cremated remains were returned about a year later, there was a private burial service for the family followed by a catered dinner for all the relatives.
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If you do want a more traditional funeral, it is expensive, but a good funeral home will work with you to save money and still get the type of service you want.
It was important to my mom to have a wake for my brother at a funeral home after he was cremated. Then his remains would be privately buried out of state. I was looking at the display of (expensive) urns we might purchase to display his remains at the wake. But the funeral director suggested that, since his remains were going to be buried afterward, we did not really need to purchase an urn. if we preferred, they had a lovely walnut "casket" designed to hold the simple cardboard box of remains, and we were free to borrow it for use during the service at no charge.
Also, my brother was not religious, so we didn't have a church funeral. But I felt that some a formal service of some sort would help my young son emotionally. So at my request, at the end of the evening the funeral director got up and spoke for about 15 minutes. She wrote a brief eulogy and read some stock funeral readings. Again, no extra charge for the little ceremony.
When my husband and I have lost parents, the family preference has always been a traditional wake with embalming and a viewing. On both sides, the family cemetery is out of state. When my father-in-law died, we spent a small fortune transporting his body out of state. There were two funeral homes involved, airfare, you can only imagine. It cost several hundred dollars each way just to transport his body by hearse to and from the airports.
After that, we learned our lesson. It remains the prefernce of our parents to have a traditional wake here, with embalming and a viewing. But now, we follow that with cremation. Both times, we have rented a casket to be used during the wake at about two-thirds less than the purchase price. Following the wake, cremation itself takes place in a simple container. Then we carry the remains out of state ourselves for the burial. The burial costs are much lower too, because they don't require a concrete vault or as much labor to open the grave.
When my mother-in-law died, the funeral first funeral home we visited told us they were forbidden by state law from renting us a casket. We knew this was untrue, because we had recently done so for my dad. So we went up the street to another funeral home, and they were happy to show us a nice selection of lovely caskets available for rental. No one would ever guess they were rented. (The liner is new but the outer shell is reused.)0 -
I have very dear friends who long ago made the decision to donate their bodies to science. Their children and grandchildren respect and admire their decision. The husband died rather suddenly in March and last Saturday the family had a large, well-planned and very well-attended memorial service in their Lutheran church. There was lots of music, funny and heartfelt reminiscences and a nice reception afterwards. No one missed the presence of a casket or urn, or the drive to the cemetery.
This and the recent discussion here have me thinking seriously of doing the same. What a gift to be able to help advance medical knowledge after I'm technically no longer "in the house"!
Tina
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thanks for the info Linda....how r u?
me either reality, have no life insurance so my kids won't have to pay anything unless they decide to have something somewhere.
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I was dumfounded yesterday by a conversation DH and I had. I was feeling pretty down, am now dealing with LE, which I think may be the straw that broke the camel's back as far as my decision to continue treatment. I think I got it by gardening, one of the few remaining pleasures in my life. Really sucky week. So I mentioned that I was talking with some friends about funerals, joked that I really thought a big funeral pyre in the back yard would be just right for me (not sure the fire marshal would approve such a bonfire), and reiterated my desire for no viewing, just cremation and that prices seemed to have big range. He said he knew the local crematory charged about $1200 if you used a cardboard box, more for wood, and he didn't see any reason to use wood. We joked about urns. I told him I wanted him to keep my ashes so they could be scattered with his when the time came, but he said he had planned to spread them out in all the different places that we have traveled to and loved. I was deeply touched, but totally surprised.
I have been keeping a little list of music, have not had that conversation yet, but will do so in the near future. I think I want a simple church service because the church I attend has been the source of most of my enjoyment of life as I participate in choir there.0 -
I've mentioned before on this tired that I'm donating my body to medical science. Have given cards with my donation # to my family members and wrote letters to each of my kids that this is what I want. I don't want them thinking my DH is being cheap! There will be a memorial service at my church (mainly for my adult kids) and a good friend has offered her home for a gathering afterwards. She only asks my DH to pay for cleaning before and after and to pay the caterer. All in all, it will cost way less than a traditional burial and my friends and family will have time to celebrate my life. Btw, I'm preparing a video slide show because I am the picture taker and no one else would know where to find the pictures. Also, I can make sure all the pictures of me are flattering! LOL! Have also chosen a few songs and a couple of my favorite bible verses to read. My preacher of 17 years, recently retired, has agreed to sing a beautiful solo that we both love, "Lord, I have come to the lakeshore." I have also suggested to DH that he have visiting hours in our home for a week or so rather than a huge gathering at a funeral home. That is just so much more personal to me. Now, whether it goes off as I planned is not my problem .... But I have let my wishes be known!!
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HAPPY MOTHERS DAY AND HAPPY MEMORIES OF OUR MOMS. l&h&p'S SASSY
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Good idea Schatzi! Here's to all the moms who have come before us. I think of my mom whom I loved so much, who also died of breast cancer.
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This is a godsend. I'm a newbie to this site. I'm supposed to be keeled over and croaked out in less than two years, per my oncologist. Like many of you, I cannot seem to bring myself to getting the dying person's paperwork taken care of except for the living will stuff. Everyone in the family is already fighting over my things and nagging me about this paperwork, so I am loathe to touch it. My coworkers who know keep giving me these sad smiles. My life feels a little surreal at this point, but other than the occasional blip on the health screen (two hospitalizations for pleurodesis, pleurex and for blood clot in the jugular vein), I feel great! I'm now on Xeloda and I exercise as hard as I can plus I'm back up to full time work hours. How soon before I feel like I'm actually not doing so well? How does that usually start? I really need to know because a lot of other things in my life are changing. Please advise/share, if you can...Plus does it actually help to post my multiple Dxs?
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Snylander,
I believe at stage IV, most of us are given around a 2 year time frame, but many have outlived this quite well for 5, 10, 15, 20 years. No one knows but God when your time will come. I was told many times to get my affairs in order while I feel well. This is good advice because when you are not functioning well, it could be very difficult to make these kinds of decisions.
Some feel good just taking care of their wishes and getting the will or trust done so they can relax and not worry about it.
It's good to prepare and get everyone on the same page so there is no question of what you would want to have done if you should get very sick.
Terri
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Snylander, no need to post dx., but I find that sometimes people with a similar dx., treatment, status, etc. identify with me and post on thread or p.m. me. I have made some nice connections that way.
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This thread has allowed me to get back to living! Once I completed all the arrangements for what happens when I die; I was able to leave it all in the file in the cabinet and forget about it! Before it would creep in at odd moments and ruin my day. Now when it creeps in, I remember that it done and not to be worried about. Sending a HUGE thanks to MA in heaven for giving us this blessing.
Those who are not comfortable discussing this with their loved ones, I would say DO IT, FINISH IT, and it will give you a pathway to get back to LIVING!
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Thanks for the input, will add my Hx to my signature. It's been a long road! the big change coming is a possible job change. Not a bad change per se, but I do not have a choice about it. It means moving, changing life insurance and health plans and doctors, so I figured I should hold off on the pre paid funeral plans until I figure out where I'll likely end up - hoping to find one that will move around with me. The will is a joke because I realized I don't really own anything of value on my own. But the life insurance was a major thing because I am the sole support of my family, and it is connected to my job. I can appreciate doing this while I feel good. When I had trouble breathing (due to malignant exudates in lungs and heart plus lung mets) I realized I did not have the energy to make decisions. And that was scary.
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I wanted to make sure you all know how grateful I am to see responses. I have not found anyone here (in town) to relate to face-to-face. Someone in my BrCA support group burst out in tears when I revealed my last dx, so I dropped out. She freaked out a smidge because she was sure this would happen to her as well. I wasn't being dramatic, just objective per my training. What the hey - it wasn't like I was terribly thrilled with the news either. I realized I didn't fit in.
Will try to be concise in future posts. Bless you all for being here!
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Snylander - welcome! This is a great virtual support group, and I hope you feel the same way.
I also have been having trouble dealing with my will and other paperwork, but I know it will be a huge relief when I finally get it done.0 -
Hey there Latte, thanks for the welcome! I'm planning to listen to the wiser members on board. Promise I'll say when I actually finished up my will. For my birthday, the hubs gave me a will kit, by the way. And I hate it. But I know the other members are right. Real freedom will come from dealing with this responsibility.
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My husband and I have an appointment with an attorney this afternoon to finalize the drafts of our estate planning documents. We are doing revocable trusts with pourover wills, powers of attorney for healthcare and property and a living will for me.
We are also making sure my mother's estate planning docs are in order. She has dementia and I am her only child, so it is my responsibility to handle her financial affairs and all the decisions regarding her care.Despite the dementia, she is healthy as a horse and likely to outlive me. My husband will take over when I am gone. So we are taking steps to get the paperwork is in order, so when the time comes there will be a smooth transition to my husband as successor trustee.
We should have done these things years ago, but it took my diagnosis to get the ball rolling. Whatever happens in the future, it will be a relief to have this done.
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MartyMart, can you tell me a little about the estate planning? My dh and I have had a will and power of attorney stuff filled out since our son was little, and we have discussed funeral arrangements and such in the past year. But I'm wondering what kinds of issues the estate planning deals with, and if we should see a lawyer who deals with that kind of stuff.
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I also second the others when they say taking care of these things allows you to get on with life, knowing your loved ones won't have to deal with so much and make decisions in the middle of their grief. It was actually calming to my husband to know how I felt about some things and what my final wishes would be.
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The Divine Mrs. M - I was fortunate that my mother set the stage about 15 years ago by carefully planning her own estate. I learned about this stuff by administering her affairs, and am sort of following her lead in my own estate planning.
My mother has all her assets, such as her IRAs and bank accounts, in a revokable trust that names me and herself as co-trustees. This means her assets are owned by the trust, not directly by her. She also has given me power of attorney for property, so I can make decisions without her input. When she dies, the trust will pass to me as co-trustee, without having to go through probate. She named my husband as successor trustee, so he can take over if I am unable to.
We have also decided to go with revocable trusts instead of wills. All of our assets (house, bank accounts etc.) will be retitled so that they belong to the trusts rather than us directly.
So one reason we are choosing a trust is to avoid probate.
Another reason is to make it easier on our son, who is twenty, should my husband and I both die within the next few years. At this stage in his life, he would not be mature enough to deal with the responsibilties of inheriting our estate. So we have named a successor trustee to manage the estate until our son is ready (we are naming a trust company recommended by our financial advisor.) We have set it up so he will receive money for education and basic living expenses until age 30, when he would receive half of the assets. Then he would get the rest at age 35.
One downside of trusts vs. wills is that they are more expensive to set up. For us, $4,000 for the trust package, vs $450 for straight wills.
A good estate attorney should be able to explain all of this, and will let you know ahead of time how much it will cost. We chose an attorney who specializes in geriatric law. Because her clients are older, she has a lot of experience with estate matters, and I had already consulted her a number of time regarding my mother's issues.
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I'm not sure what probate is.
Also, you mention the downside of trusts is the expense to set it up. Other than making sure your son inherits what you wish him to, over time, is there another upside to the trust? Do you save on taxes? My son is at an age where he would be responsible for whatever monies he'd get through inheriting, so I can't say if it'd be worth it to have a trust. Hope you don't mind my asking. I realize you're not a lawyer, but that's why I ask just for some basic information. I don't know any lawyer and have a hard time trusting they just don't want my money!
(disclaimer: plz, if any lawyers are reading this, don't be offended, it's just my own personal hang-up).
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welcome sny!!
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I'm not a lawyer either, so keep that in mind.
I was lucky to already have an attorney I feel comfortable with. She has helped several times me over the years with issues relating to my mon's dementia. Her practice specialty is geriatric law, so she has a lot of experience with estate planning. She has always been very fair and up front about fees. I originally found her through word of mouth, and I think that is the best way to find a good attorney.
Probate is the legal process of administering your will. In most cases, you have to go through the courts to do this. That happened when my brother died, and there were a lot of legal fees and court costs involved. There were a lot of hassles, and took a year to wrap everything up.
However, probate may not be an issue if you are leaving everything to your spouse. Again, I'm not a lawyer, so I would recommend checking.
Our main reason for choosing a trust is to make things run smoother in the event something would happen to both of us and our son would inherit. With a trust, not only would he avoid probate, but also he would have a trustee in place to handle decision-making. (In our case, a trust company affiliated with our financial advisor.)
Our son is not quite mature enough yet to handle the decisions involved in inheriting IRAs, insurance money, a house etc. Even if he was very mature for his age, we would probably consider this option. Our attorney told us she has seldom seen it go well when a young guy inherits a big chunk of money with no strings attached.
Under our trust, until age 30 he would get all the income from our assets, plus enough to extra to cover reasonable living expenses and his education. Then at age 30 he would get half of the assets, and at age 35 he would get the rest.
In think there may be tax advantages to a trust if your estate is really large (sadly, not an issue for us.)0 -
Thanks for the explanation, Marty. I will have to give the matter some consideration.
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Martymari, Your info is great on so many levels. I will add that a Will is an important as an addition to the Trust instruments. The reason is: the trust plans for the items in the trust, it doesn't always plan for the unforseen things not defined. In that case then items not covered would be cast into the "intestate"(died with no Will) category which would be very expensive b/c not only would the unforseen have to be probated, but the court would have to declare who would be the executor . If someone challenged the executor appointment, it can get messy. A Will that covers the unforseen covers it all. Some examples of unforseen, for example,1. You die in an automobile accident and your spouse sues for wrongful death, a judgement is rendered in your Estates favor, but the judgement is not part of the Trust; 2. You die, and a winning lotto ticket is found that you've signed. Either case is messy without a Will. The unforseen covers many other things. Obviously, I'm not a lawyer, but your lawyers will get it, and either recommend a Will or tell you why I wrong. sheila aka sassy
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I'm not to offend anyone here, but I can't seem to find anyone I can talk to about this. My mom died at age 45 after a 7 year battle of mast. bc. and large doses of chemo, rads, hormone drugs etc.~ I never really knew her because she was always drugged. I now have have Stage 2A breast cancer. I am 45. I always thought I would die early, but thought it would be a car crash or something quick. I don't want to take drugs that will mess with my psychy. I don't want to loose time with my 3 growing kids. I've been in 2 major surgeries and have one more to go in the fall. Nobody can guarentee me life after poisoning me so why should I bother. If I'm going to get it again, then I will...if I'm not, I won't...if I take the meds there is no guarentee, but I will loose time with my kids at a time when my daughter (age 14...weird but that's the age I was when my mom died) really needs me to be her rock, not her patient. My husband has trouble cooking meals and thinks it's such a chore. He yells at the kids because I think he's going crazy and can't handle thinking I might die.
Everyone says 'you're so strong you'll get through this'. I'm not strong! I'm just doing what I have to ... inside is very sad and is desparately missing my mom. She fought and fought and fought...she lost all those years fighting and really...due to the drugs...she died years before she hit the ground.
There I said it. I know it's awful. But I don't want to reinact her life. She was an amazing woman. Very kind and gentle and very strong...but that doesn't help stop mast from coming...
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Babs, a few things come to mind. If I understand what your wrote, it sounds like its been quite a few years since your mom passed away. If so, treatment improved since years ago. I had chemo, radiation, a lumpectomy and now take antihormone meds, and it hasn't changed my personality. I'm not all drugged up. Since the diagnosis almost 2 1/2 years ago, I've done so much living and plan to do a lot more.
I don't think you should compare your experience to your mom's. Each woman's 'journey' is different. Please take it one day at a time. A wonderful saying I love is "You don't have to be strong, you just have to show up." Just stay in the present moment. You have much to live for. Be easy with yourself, kind and loving to yourself. You can still have many many many wonderful moments, days, times in your life.
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