Survivors who had chemo etc and are into Complementary medicine
Comments
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Carola, I began DIM after I did a homeopathic detox (5 weeks) after rads. I figured I didn't want to detox it right out of me, so I waited and now take it every morning. Do you have an ND you can talk to about the timing? Congrats on being done chemo, by the way!!!
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Calcium also should be taken without grains, from what I've heard. This supplement stuff can be a full-time job!
A word on weights, yoga, etc: even if you've had an SNB, you are at risk for LE. It is a good idea to go to an LE specialist and get coached. I have a sleeve for travel. I am also quite careful with exercise. One time I overdid it in yoga. My arm was aching all next day. Now, that could be LE precursor, it could just be damaged nerves from the surgery. Either way, once you get LE there is no going back. Of course, you can take all the precautions and still get it, but an ounce of prevention and all.
I'll say this about bras: no more underwire for me. I know they say they don't cause cancer, but my tumor was exactly on my underwire line. I figured might as well remove one thing. They do say underwires can reduce lymphatic drainage.
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Thought I'd also add as a former Jersey girl from farm country, my mother's friend, a farmer, told us we don't even know the half of it regarding soil and nutrition. Organic is great and all, but the soil is so bad today that the nutrient densities just aren't what they used to be.
The issue with supplements, as we are starting to learn, is that you just can't replace food. I take supplements, and fish oil and D are sure-fire bets in my book. But calcium seems questionable now with the new studies, and there is a camp that feels supplements aren't valuable.
What to do? I dunno, exactly, but I try to eat local foods. And I eat frozen vegetables before I eat organics shipped from California and Mexico (I'm in the Midwest).
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My PS story?
After the first 8 weeks after recon first with the TE and then implant my PS said no restrictions. I got talking about it with women on the boards here (there is a thread about lifting with implants) and several had their PS say any pec work needs to be done on an incline. I went, hmmm, then proceeding with no restrictions like my PS said. I ended up with bad pec damage and a lot of time in PT and with severe activity restrictions. I don't know if part of it is how much you lift? I bench from 70-over 100 lbs depending on where I am in my training. Since then my PS had surgery herself and is now telling anyone with implants never do it flat, always has to be on an incline and she'd rather we never did pec work again. I'm not willing to never do pec work so I backed off on the weight and do it on an incline. Also, just so you're aware, after mastectomy and any axillary surgery you have to be aware of strengthening rhomboids, lower trap and upper lat. Otherwise the tightening that happens after pec surgery can lead to a lot of shoulder and neck problems.
Hope it helps, good luck, feel free to PM anytime
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hi ladies.
i take a baby aspirin with my Arimidex in the morning; 7,000iu Vit D with supper, along with a multivitamin with lunch and fish oil (lunch). melatonin at night.
my onc proposes adding calcium, but i'm torn. reading various ideas on it. and i've cut way down on my dairy intake because i think the risk from dairy (ER + cancer) is greater than the much touted calcium benefit. i really need my VitD level checked on my August visit!
grocery shopping has become quite complicated, in my opinion..and my chemo brain doesn't help when i'm standing in the produce aisle trying to balance my finances, health, taste, etc!
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Lto the K: i hear you on the underwires. my LE therapist last year said they are a no no for anyone with the slightest amount of LE - and myplastic surgeon doesn't like them much, either. although finding a good (and maybe sexy?) bra and/or bathing suit without is such a pain in the a*#! thank God for a great bra fitter over at Yale New Haven - she's the sweetest person.
I do yoga regularly, and definitely have to watch certain poses. Downward Dog is sometimes problematic, and although i did Crow the other day, my arm did not like it and let me know...so no more Crow for this gal. I just modify as I go, and the teachers are incredibly supportive andhelpful always.
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Victoria's Secret has a new bra with the underwire encased in a foam, so you can't even feel its there. I don't know if that would solve any LE problems or not, but it is very comfortable and looks good too.
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In regards to supplements has anyone ever heard of Juice Plus? And if so what are your thoughts?
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Farris-Sunflowers:
Thanks for getting answers to my questions.
My English bulldog is named Ted Williams. We have a Red Sox room at our home. Best memories for my husband and I are the trip to Boston and 3 games at Fenway. My husband is living/working in Aberdeen, Scotland and proudly wears his Red Sox colors.
I love this thread and all the information.
Jana0 -
I recently heard this on the news, and a signifigant risk % increase was mentioned, but found this more moderate information on the Aust cancer council website:
Multivitamins and breast cancer risk
April 2010
A study in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition suggests that use of multivitamins is associated with an increased risk of breast cancer.
This study found only a modestly increased risk in those who were taking multivitamin supplements, compared to those who did not take multivitamin supplements.
It is important to keep this in perspective of the well established risk factors for breast cancer - ie. obesity, physical inactivity and drinking alcohol are much more significant risk factors for breast cancer.
Cancer Council advises that women taking multivitamin supplements should not be alarmed by these findings, however they should consider whether they really need to take a multivitamin supplement. Adequate vitamin intake for the majority of Australians can be met through a healthy, balanced diet with a variety of fresh fruit and vegetables, rather than relying on multivitamin pills.0 -
I wonder what multivitamins they were taking for that study (I'm guessing an assortment)? I'm all for more whole food vitamins that are bio-available and actually used by our body (I think Deanna/dlb823) touched on this point, seeing as a lot of companies engineer vitamins out of synthetic chemicals. I'm hoping that with supplementation right now (post chemo and rads) and a healthy diet, I can get most levels to where they need to be and eventually get off some of the supplements I'm on (I know my ND would like this too!).
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The biggest risk in getting cancer is: being alive. Breast cancer: being a woman.
I try to take my treatment and complementary medicine with a grain of salt and a dose of common sense. Peanuts are carcinogens, but I am not going to do away with the occasional peanut butter cookie. Similarly, I eat vegetables and am vert fit; I could eat better...but then I would enjoy life a little less.
Part of doing this right, for me, is not becoming extremist about it. For example, I only buy organic milk for myself, but that doesn't mean I will pester every waiter at every restaurant (and annoy everyone else by coming across as a drama queen) by asking about ingredients and organic, etc... I may as well just stay home.
So there is a slight increase in my risk of cancer from typing this post, I'm sure. I will take it with salt, pepper, and a glass of wine.
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Thanks all for the vit D3 info!
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THANK YOU for starting this thread! You ladies have motivated me to do more to be healthy! As a Christian I know God wants me to take care of my body, so I am doing a study with some ladies at church called "Made to Crave". It will help me "crave" more of God, instead of food.
I just read through this whole thread, and have been taking notes!
My D was a little low (29) so my onc had me take 2000iu a day. My levels are now in the "good" range and my primary doc told me to continue taking that amount to keep the level up. I was told not to take Melatonin as it does not mix well with some drugs and I am still getting Herceptin. I had been taking Ambien occasionally, but didn't want to take it too often and get addicted, so my primary gave me Trazadone. It's an anti-depressant, but can be taken at bedtime to help me fall asleep. It's not addicting, and I can take it every night, or as needed. I've only taken it once, and was a bit groggy the next day, but doc said the grogginess will go away as I keep using it. Oh-- also Melatonin has warnings on it about taking it with endocrine or autoimmune problems, and I have an under-active thyroid, which is both.
I've been taking B6 also, but am going to buy a B complex, for myself as well as my dh, who is really struggling with fatigue.
I take the D and B in the morning, after breakfast. If I add more supplements I will probably take some at lunch too. I don't like to take too many at one time.
I'm REALLY trying hard to add more fruits and veggies to my diet. My taste buds are used to fat and carbs! (We eat out a lot)
Ok, gonna go back and check out some links! Oh--some have been mentioning their ages? I'm almost 47 and the year before bc I had stage 3b colon cancer. No sign of cancer anymore!
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Here's a somewhat lengthier explanation of that study re. multivitamins and an increased risk of bc:
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/183880.php (Sorry, I can't figure out how to do a clickable link on my new I-Mac. If anyone can tell me, I'd love to know!)
While I was searching for this, I found a much smaller study done around the same time in Puerto Rico that came to the opposite conclusion. Here's an interesting article discussing the contradictory conclusions: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/720853
Deanna
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I really like this new thread ... lots of interesting information.
A couple of people have mentioned taking DIM. What is that?
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I'm going friday for my first acupuncture to help me with my hot flashes. Did you find it helped? How many visits did it take before you noticed an improvement? Thanks!
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Mary, here's an excellent article on DIM and I3C (a similar supplement):
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2006/jan2006_report_i3c_01.htm
Quite a few of us on the Natural Girls thread use one or the other of these to modulate estrogen -- either along with Tamox or an A/I, or in place of them. Deanna
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ruth, I'll have to check VS out, I hadn't heard about the new bra, thanks for passing that on
Athena, your post made me LOL, that describes me exactly, organic at home, no pestering not at home
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Hi anyone tried the Joanna Budwig diet protocol - flaxseed oil and cottage cheese?
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I also threw away my underwire bras after my dx. My tumor was found in the 6 oclock position along the ridge of where my underwire was shaped to my body.
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Now this is more like it!
Regarding calcium, a lot of nutritionists would tell you that dairy is actually a poor source of calcium and D, and other foods like leafy greens provide better versions of it. I see my naturopath this week, will let you know what she has to say about it. Dunno if she'll be up on the very latest, but I'll share all.
Nutritionist also said if you are going to go the meat route, dump fish for chicken and buffalo, organic, of course. She feels that fish is just too full of pollutants. For what it's worth. I am doing fantastically on a veg diet, banking as much protein as I'm supposed to with a meat diet! (About 50 - 60 grams a day). I take a fish oil supplement by Nordic Naturals.
DivineMrs.M, that is so interesting to hear. I had the exact experience, and I just had to wonder.
BTW, GREAT cookbook: The Very Best of Recipes for Health from the NYTimes. I made white bean soup yesterday, froze some for when my parents come next week. I keep going back to this cookbook, feel like I could ditch the rest.
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Interesting article on DIM. Be aware that DIM has also come under fire as a possible cancer stimulant (can you win, for real?) http://www.dimfaq.com/site/I3C-safety.htm
I will talk to my naturopath about this, too: my oncologist asked me to stop taking anything more than RDA 100% and untested supplements, as they don't know the contraindications with Tamox. I probably will go back to some more supplements, meet the naturopath and the oncologist in the middle somewhere. But I did think it made sense to be concerned given the lack of studies on contraindications and the new rise of complementary care.
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If you are estrogen positive you should be wary of adding extra flax-seed or soy to your diet as they have a pseudo-estrogen effect. I know there is a lot of controversy about this, and it isn't proven one way or the other, but I would just be aware of it. I, myself, don't run away if I see a bottle of soy sauce or a flaxseed muffin, but I also wouldn't add either as a suppliment to me diet.
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LtotheK, I read the article and it said DIM was proven to kill different types of cancer whereas 1C3 did not. ?? I take DIM to better metabolize my estrogen.
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I agree Ruthbru.
I belong here too, I believe. I believe drugs have their place, but that nature knows best quite often. I took the full gamut of treatments, and now am on a clinical trial for neratinib, take tamoxifen and metformin and baby aspirin. But I also juice greens several times a day, take tons of supplements, do acupuncture and practice meditation. I do lots of research, and believe the studies show quite a few things that work from both worlds.
Interestingly, with this trial my blood chemistry is monitored closely. I was in Europe with my kids for a month, and made the decision not to haul a bag full of drugs and supplements...went clean for a month. I came back last Monday after eating chocolate croissants and double expressos and bacon and no meds etc for over a month...and told my onc to expect the worst of my bloodwork. IT WAS HIGHER THAN ITS BEEN SINCE I WAS DIAGNOSED!!! What an eye opener. It really drove the point home, to trust our bodies...but that's it's important to give it all the tools it needs to do it's job too.
Does this make sense?0 -
Yes, it does. A kind of funny note, when I was doing chemo, I just ate what I could stand, which was mashed potatos with butter and cheese. When I was doing rads, my appetite was back and different friends had volunteered to drive me every day for my treatments (100 miles one way!). They always wanted to take me out to lunch after my zaps, so I ate my way through 33 treatments...very much enjoying all the food that had tasted so dreadful during chemo. When I went to my GP for my general physical in the fall, my cholestreol was horrible. My GP expressed concern, and I said, " DUH! Of course it is horrible, that has been the last thing on my mind this last year!!!" He acknowledged my excuse, but told me it was time to get back on the bandwagon. Which I did.
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That's right, Barbara--but I think there are lots of different studies in different camps. What I do is take all I can find to my naturopath, and then see what she has to say.
Yes, geewhiz, that makes total sense. The truth according to my thinking is somewhere between lust for life and good choices. I also believe the food here is really awful, so eating in Europe, which I do often as I work there, is always a health improvement. The studies also seem to indicate that low-fat products are a problem. Makes sense to me, I eat full-fat everything when I'm over there, and somehow, I lose weight and my health improves.
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Responding to Ruth's post about the pseudo-estrogen effect: For those of us on AIs, we've questioned why the dosage is the same, regardless of whether one weighs 100 lbs or 200 lbs. And now for the related question:
If AIs are supposed to suppress aromatase, (regardless of how much each of us produces) which is the protein that lets estrogen do its bad stuff, then why shouldn't we expect the AI to suppress any and all possible effects from a pseudo-estrogen? (and yes, the jury is still out on that).
This question has always been in the back of my mind, when I hear docs advising their patients to stay away from flax or soy.
I usually have a tbsp of ground flaxseed in my smoothie every morning, because of its health benefits (keeping me regular for one thing!). I eat whole grain bread which contains flaxseed. I do not consume soy (since I don't buy any processed foods which might contain it).
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My own take is that the best thing most of us can do for ourselves is cook our own food. By this, I mean selecting the ingredients, and then making the dish from scratch.
Ruth......not surprised your bloodwork had tanked after a month of "Supersize Me". In fact, that was my worry when I visited my Internist about 3 months after finishing radiation. I needn't have worried. All was well, and I didn't have to give up my evil ways.
Sherri.....interesting comments about Europe. I suspect you were eating good foods without realizing it. Extra fruit from the markets; breads made from good grains; "cruditees" or veggie salads as an appetizer as opposed to Buffalo wings. Plus more walking.
I am trying to talk myself into believing that the bacon blue cheeseburger I made last night is "health food". But was made at the store from sustainably-raised beef and top line bacon. Suspect the blue cheese was one of the ones they feature. You can tell.
It didn't need anything on it, and made a ton of asparagus and broccoli rabe with it. Ate a mango for dessert.
This is very different from scarfing down a box of nuked White Castles.
LtotheK.....with "low fat", you need to ask "what did they do to leave out the fat?" Often, a lot of strange ingredients. This is different than cooking with less fat.
One final observation is that when food is satisfying we tend to eat less of it. Something to think about.
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