Survivors who had chemo etc and are into Complementary medicine
Comments
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It is really shocking when you do go out how ENORMOUS the portions are......if people get into their minds that those portions are 'normal', no wonder there is so much obesity in the country!
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What a wonderful thread. Thank you for starting it susieq58. Still reading through it, but wanted to join.
I have been mixing conventional with complementary since my diagnosis. Actually been taking supplements and doing acupuncture on and off for years. Now I am trying to stick with it and being as healthy as I can. I have improved my diet, but still struggle at times. Hope to be buying a juicer in the coming weeks because I definitely do not get enough veggies, although I have been improving. Love kale chips, and so does my family. Doing better with fruits and cutting out foods not good for me. Only drink coffee once a week and red wine on special occassions. Drink lots of green tea, water with lemon and fruit smoothies. Buying organic is hard because of the cost. Just started doing restorative yoga and wanting to add some pilates along with some light weights soon.
I Love dark chocolate!
Time for me to go read some more of this forum to get caught up.
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Your right Ruth, and if they do serve smaller portions people complain about how small the portions are. Lol! I usually always take home have of my meal for lunch the next day. That way I am getting two meals for the price of one.
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Don't worry - the obesity thing has spread to here. I look at the ads on TV for KFC and nearly throw up - how can people eat chicken coated in all that stuff?
Don't get me wrong, I love fries (chips here) I regularly do oven cooked ones here - at least not fried in a vat of oil. We have pizza - I make my own with purchased (very thin) bases. But we do have really good produce here - we are lucky. Thats what Mum said - the food didn't seem so fresh over there.
Sue
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Just found this thread and love it. I was eating pretty good pre dx but have changed alot since then. Lot's more veggies and less red meat and meats with no hormones. I try to eat much more organic when I can. I even did my own garden this spring. Small but will add to it. I have given up white sugar but do use honey. I still have not given up dairy but will be working on that one. I don't go out to eat much because all we have around here is fast food, mexican food and BBQ. I really started exercising right before dx. Love yoga. As far as supplements go I take Omega-3, acidophillus, melatonion, D3, Iron, and biotin (my hair does not like tamox)
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I have actually split one dish and ordered 1 appetizer with a friend and it was plenty. I just assume all restaurants serve family style now. One dish is not meant for just one person. Otherwise I bring home.
I have notices some restaurants have reduced the size rather than price. Not a lot but a few.
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DH and I always split an entree and order salad. Portions are just way to big in the restruants.
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So many repsonses to read and catch up. My niece and nephew in law are organic farmers in Trumansburg, NY. It is a CSA--community supported agriculture farm where people buy shares each year. They have done wonderfully. If any of you live close and are interested, here is their website:
You can tell them Aunt Mary sent you
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Speaking of KFC, this kills me, lol:
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Hi All! I have not had a chance to read everything, but wanted to chime in...
I started reading "Anti-Cancer, A New Way of Life" after chemo and rads were done. Then, I built on it from there. Here's what I do:
Lots of exercise. 4 days of cardio (elliptical or biking), weights
Sleep. At least 8.5 hours every night.
Serenity practices: Yoga (1 time weekly), Centering
Diet: Organic, Plant based (fruits, veggies), very low sugar, no dairy, no booze. I eat beans! Also, organic raspberries and blue berries, yum! I do eat organic eggs. I eat small fish (sardines, kippers - use like a can of tuna fish) and also wild alaskan salmon occasionally.
Supplements - I take a slew and see an Osteopath to help. Here are some "anti-cancer" ones: Turmeic, Green Tea, Vit D, Calcium D-Glucerate, DIM, Iodine+ATP cofactors, (lots of others)
PH balance - I test PH with strips to make sure I'm in balance, supposed to help with inflamation.
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Nancy~ I'm not a vegetarian so I do get protein from organic, hormone and antibiotic-free meats sometimes, but I use organic whey protein or spirulina powder in my smoothies, or I take chlorella. I don't do dairy anymore really, except for goat cheese (or if I'm devouring a cheese plate!), but I do also like beans, lentils, brown rice.....all that stuff. When it comes to soy, if I want some or if it's offered, I'll eat it, but it's not all that often. If I were to buy soy, I would try to make sure it was from an organic source as a lot of it is GMO and nasty since it's full of pesticides etc..
Edited to add: I totally forgot about fish, which I would love to eat more often if it was 'cleaner' and free-run eggs from farms around us, they are the best!!!
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What a great thread! I am enjoying reading through it. I wonder, are any of you taking tamoxifen? I have taken a holiday and eat a pretty healthy diet, do yoga, pilates, or some form of exercise daily, try to lessen my stress (which I truly feel is what put me here in the first place) and in general, lead a healthy life. I do not want to go back on tamoxifen and hope that some info here might provide me with ammunition to take back to my Onc., who only wants me to stay off until August. Thank you so much for all the insight! Tammy
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Nancy et al, you are getting a lot more protein cumulatively than you think. I use online calculators, like Livestrong. I am a committed veg, and get at least 50 a day with quinoa, rice, beans, vegetables, Ezekiel and hemp breads, cheese sparingly, and milk substitutes like coconut and almond milk. I eat eggs, and lots of cashew and almond butters. Enough protein is good, too much is actually hard on the bones and other body systems. Veg advocates have been saying for a long time that Americans get too much protein. I'm inclined to believe that, if I ate meat every day on top of how I already eat I'd be getting upwards of 100 grams a day.
Chocolate hemp protein powder with stevia and coconut milk is sublime, and loaded with protein and other good nutrients! Recently found out about this hemp protein.
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LtotheK, your chocolate drink sounds delicious!
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About eating out...
Something interesting with my kids. We used to eat McDonald's occasionally. Have not had it for at least a year. We went to McDonald's the other night and we all felt sick after eating it. My teen said "maybe our bodies have gotten away from this junk and cannot deal with us eating it."
Wow.
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My sources of protein:
--eggs, legumes, chicken and turkey. You have to be careful on the eggs because of the saturated fat, of course, but nothing beats animal protein (and the taste, IMO). If you are a vegetarian, things get trickier because you have to guard against gaining weight and rely more on legumes.
But we have said less about fat, which we need in order to live....so what fat is good and what is not?
Olive oil is good, coconut is not. Avocado may be good; butter is not. Anything saying "partially hydrogenated" is contraindicated.Chocolate is good for the soul, I say, as is caramel.
What we patients need is less concern about what food we eat and more concern about how we cook and serve it.
Ang: re: Macdonalds - that happened to me and I think Dr. Atkins explains why in his book. When you transition from, white grains in multigrains high in fiber, you tastes change and you can't go back. I haven't eaten a hamburger in 15 years.
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Loving this thread!
I admit it, we ate crap before my diagnosis. I'm making moves towards better eating and it's not going so well. I love most all food - and I have the extra weight to show the truth in that. But I have a house filled with picky eaters.
Organic? Not for us. Too many people, not enough money. My theory is that my responsibility is to do the best that I can do. No less than that is acceptable.
My husband had some labs done recently - his triglycerides were over 1500 (!!!) so we're on a quest to get this nutrition and exercise thing down. (Normal triglycerides are 0-200)
But we're complete novices and learning along the way. This thread is a big help.
So protein - I'm trying to bulk up my protein while I go through rads - the RO recommends 150 grams per day. I'm wondering how they arrive at that number. I did end up making that goal today - barely.
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Kira, you asked about synthroid and bone density. Complex subject, add in what tamoxifen does to bone density in premenopausal women like me and I get nervous.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2010 Jan;95(1):186-93. Epub 2009 Nov 11.
Serum thyroid-stimulating hormone concentration and morbidity from cardiovascular disease and fractures in patients on long-term thyroxine therapy.
Flynn RW, Bonellie SR, Jung RT, MacDonald TM, Morris AD, Leese GP.
Source Ninewells Hospital and Medical School, Dundee DD1 9SY, United Kingdom.
AbstractCONTEXT: For patients on T(4) replacement, the dose is guided by serum TSH concentrations, but some patients request higher doses due to adverse symptoms.
OBJECTIVE: The aim of the study was to determine the safety of patients having a low but not suppressed serum TSH when receiving long-term T(4) replacement.
DESIGN: We conducted an observational cohort study, using data linkage from regional datasets between 1993 and 2001.
SETTING: A population-based study of all patients in Tayside, Scotland, was performed.
PATIENTS: All patients taking T(4) replacement therapy (n = 17,684) were included.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Fatal and nonfatal endpoints were considered for cardiovascular disease, dysrhythmias, and fractures. Patients were categorized as having a suppressed TSH (4.0 mU/liter).
RESULTS: Cardiovascular disease, dysrhythmias, and fractures were increased in patients with a high TSH: adjusted hazards ratio, 1.95 (1.73-2.21), 1.80 (1.33-2.44), and 1.83 (1.41-2.37), respectively; and patients with a suppressed TSH: 1.37 (1.17-1.60), 1.6 (1.10-2.33), and 2.02 (1.55-2.62), respectively, when compared to patients with a TSH in the laboratory reference range. Patients with a low TSH did not have an increased risk of any of these outcomes [hazards ratio: 1.1 (0.99-1.123), 1.13 (0.88-1.47), and 1.13 (0.92-1.39), respectively].
CONCLUSIONS: Patients with a high or suppressed TSH had an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, dysrhythmias, and fractures, but patients with a low but unsuppressed TSH did not. It may be safe for patients treated with T(4) to have a low but not suppressed serum TSH concentration.
PMID: 19906785 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text
J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2010 Jul;95(7):3173-81. Epub 2010 Apr 21.
Thyroid function within the upper normal range is associated with reduced bone mineral density and an increased risk of nonvertebral fractures in healthy euthyroid postmenopausal women.
Murphy E, Glüer CC, Reid DM, Felsenberg D, Roux C, Eastell R, Williams GR.
Source Molecular Endocrinology Group, 7th Floor Commonwealth Building, Hammersmith Hospital, Du Cane Road, London W12 0NN, United Kingdom.
AbstractCONTEXT: The relationship between thyroid function and bone mineral density (BMD) is controversial. Existing studies are conflicting and confounded by differences in study design, small patient numbers, and sparse prospective data.
OBJECTIVE: We hypothesized that variation across the normal range of thyroid status in healthy postmenopausal women is associated with differences in BMD and fracture susceptibility.
DESIGN: The Osteoporosis and Ultrasound Study (OPUS) is a 6-yr prospective study of fracture-related factors.
SETTING: We studied a population-based cohort from five European cities.
PARTICIPANTS: A total of 2374 postmenopausal women participated. Subjects with thyroid disease and nonthyroidal illness and those receiving drugs affecting thyroid status or bone metabolism were excluded, leaving a study population of 1278 healthy euthyroid postmenopausal women.
INTERVENTIONS: There were no interventions.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: We measured free T(4) (fT4) (picomoles/liter), free T(3) (fT3) (picomoles/liter), TSH (milliunits/liter), bone turnover markers, BMD, and vertebral, hip, and nonvertebral fractures.
RESULTS: Higher fT4 (beta = -0.091; P = 0.004) and fT3 (beta = -0.087; P = 0.005) were associated with lower BMD at the hip, and higher fT4 was associated with increasing bone loss at the hip (beta = -0.09; P = 0.015). After adjustment for age, body mass index, and BMD, the risk of nonvertebral fracture was increased by 20% (P = 0.002) and 33% (P = 0.006) in women with higher fT4 or fT3, respectively, whereas higher TSH was protective and the risk was reduced by 35% (P = 0.028). There were independent associations between fT3 and pulse rate (beta = 0.080; P = 0.006), increased grip strength (beta = 0.171; P<0.001), and better balance (beta = 0.099; P < 0.001), indicating that the relationship between thyroid status and fracture risk is complex.
CONCLUSIONS: Physiological variation in normal thyroid status is related to BMD and nonvertebral fracture.
PMID: 20410228 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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I'm with you, I check out the on line calorie content before going out to a restaurant and use that to guide what I order. Sad day when I realized how many calories in a Burger King shake.
Edited to add, thanks kira for passing on the new TSH guideline, I didn't know that and it helps me understand what my doc has been doing. I'm with you, passing on help and advice or sources is one thing, passing on things our docs don't usually tell us is good, but, medical advice I wouldn't think to get on line-- that I go to my physician for
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I use a phone app that has the restaurants calorie info in it...great if you don't have time to search the internet before you go. At Chipotle, I always aim for the salad with veggies and beans but dream about the burrito!! For protein, here's a good list of foods:
http://commonsensehealth.com/Diet-and-Nutrition/List_of_High_Protein_Foods.shtml
I do try to snack on almonds, lowfat organic cottage cheese, hard boiled organic egg for added protein.
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I'd love to hear about how many calories you all take in on average. I realize I'm usually up in the 2,000 range. Which I guess would explain why this summer I seem to be packing on weight (three pounds). The focus on good proteins and such means I'm eating more than during the work year for me when I pack my lunches.
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Athena, I'm very sensitive on the weight issue today, I've personally never found that a nutritious veg diet means more weight gain, but what you said about legumes is interesting. Is it that calorie-for-calorie they are more? Hemp protein isn't any more caloric, for instance, than a piece of meat.
I'm feeling like a fat pig today and want to hear more.
Taste isn't the only issue for me regarding meat. It's sustainability in a 6+ billion person world.
Coconut oil actually is up for debate. Some people believe it's the best oil to be working with. Lots of mixed messages on that one, so I reserve it for slathering on the bod : )
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McDonalds: their oatmeal is actually very tasty (ask for it without the cream) and 260 calories. Their fruit smoothies are also good; especially the mango/pinneapple and are made with yogart & fruit (imagine that!)....220 calories for a small one.
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comingtoterms-My body has finally gotten use to tamoxifen and I am not quiet brave enough to try an alternative for it. There is a lot of discussion on DIM and I think IO3 on the Natural Girls thread and also a thread called hormonal girls. You might want to try reading on those and asking some questions there.
Ang7 that is too funny about your kids, but a good thing they noticed.
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I was healthy before I got cancer, but nothing like what happened once I was diagnosed. Thing is - I was "healthy" by standard American diet standards - eating my lean chicken meat, taking in 6-8 helpings of dairy, and so forth. I worked out and ran a lot. I had quit smoking two years earlier. But....my cancer is hormone receptive, so probably, in the end, it is that healthy diet with all that hormone-pumped chicken and dairy I was on that jump-started my tumor (my doctors agree that this is very possible).
I went out and researched like a wild woman as soon as I was diagnosed, and I happened on Kris Carr's Crazy Sexy Cancer books. I started eating according tothe guidelines she set forth (80% vegetable/plant based foods, 20% other) and also starting drinking homemade green juice daily. I can tell you that my bloodwork was significantly impacted for the better from the lumpectomy surgery to the first chemo last week, which I believe can be directly credited to the diet change (of course, now I have to wait until after chemo to take up the juicing again, grrrr). but the levels were very significantly altered - I ended up with low protein, but aside from that almost everything shot up by several numbers - like, from 7 to 10, and so forth - within 3 weeks. I am definitely going back to that eating plan once chemo is over. I drink a cup of hot water with lemon and stevia every morning because it is supposed to help flush the liver. Also, I take enzymes and probiotics, plus vitamin D3 and a multivitamin, every day. I try to drink 36 ounces of water or more each day. I work out when I can and I am working on getting more sleep. I've taken to giving myself more time in the mornings to get up and around and begin each morning with a little meditation, which is enormously healing. I feel less stressed out now.
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This thread is wonderful! I am following it and taking notes
.Being TN, I have to watch my fat intake closely. I use the website www.fatsecret.com, and it keeps track of my percentages. I keep it right around 20% a day, about 75% of the time.
I was reading about protein as well, there is a calculation you can use to determine how much you need, my chemo brain is blanking on it. But I get around 50g day, which is right for my height and weight. I stay away from red meat, I eat mostly fish, shrimp, organic chicken, occasionally pork, and eggs. I find that in order to keep my calories over 1200, I have to eat a lot of whole grains, and those have more protein in them than you think!
I am not really trying to lose weight, 1200 calories seems to be what I maintain on at the moment. I'm just 5'2", and my BMI is around 23, so I'm focusing more on eating healthier. I've struggled giving up the wine, sigh. I have a glass of red every other night or so, but I really like white.
My biggest problem is the exercise, oy, I don't like it. But I am forcing myself to walk or elliptical 30 minutes a day at the moment, and am going to really try and keep it up while I do my next round of chemo over the summer. Then I'll focus on improving after that.
I take 4000 Vit D, drink 2-3 cups of green tea a day, melatonin at night (with D), and occasional green drinks. I also take Omega 3 when I remember, and will be adding in Curcumin pills. I don't want to go crazy with supplements, but know some CAN make a difference.
I grow veggies in the summer organically, and buy local organic produce when possible. My neighbor has chickens that she feeds organically, and yum the eggs are fantastic!
I have been lucky in that my very advanced TN disease hasn't not cropped up yet in other organs, and a part of me really hopes it is because I have changed my body chemistry...but only time will tell.
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pejkug3, you can really up your protein through Greek yogurt. The more expensive brands like Voskos have 24 grams. Fage has about 19. Not sure about the Dannons. And whey protein shakes can net you 20 grams each. The grain quinoa is yummy and has TONS of protein. I cook up a batch (easy as rice) and make it into a summer salad with veggies and a light dressing of olive oil and lemon.
I found a magazine that I really like, called Clean Eating. Basic, easy recipes with natural ingredients.
I'll never get away from my beef, but I'm ordering up a quarter of a local, grass-fed beef to stock the freezer.
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Hello!
Athena, you say "What we patients need is less concern about what food we eat and more concern about how we cook and serve it." I am not sure I agree (but this is a discusssion forum :-) ), I think it's very important to know where the food comes from, or at least have an idea. But maybe I misunderstood you. I agree that it's essential how you cook it though, what fat you use etc. I have also heard that coconut oil is supposed to be quite healthy, as opposed to sunflower or palmoil..
I'm on a 1300-1500 calorie diet/day. I don't move around as much (my legs are still ACHING from the Taxotere) though I try, somedays it's just impossible (had my DH to drive me to my therapist's today- only a 15 min brisk walk- couldn't do it). Not sure if it is the chemo or my persuasion or both that make me want to eat veggies. Broccoli, cauliflower, peas, carrots, tomatoes, avocados (max one a week), squash, very rapidly boiled cucumber with parmesan (yummy!), aubergine (two servings a week as it is acidic food), two eggs per week tops (a great 'snack' if they are boiled and you want something quick), seaweed (wakame & nori brings a great taste to woked veggies), peaches, apricots, apples (maxi two a week as it is highly glycemic), bananas (lot of potassium so good for muscles and nerves), black beluga lentils mixed with quinoa (if I'm very tired) & veggies....
I have always been too stressed or tired in my adult life to buy and eat food, but a couple of months into my diagnosis, I rediscovered the pleasures of making healthy food! I was a vegan for about 6 years when I was younger, and I found my old cookbooks (mostly ayurvedic stuff). I use turmeric, olive oil and black pepper as I stated before; garam masala, thyme & oregano in moderation (contains some pseudo-estrogen herbs), herbal teas for detox and protection of liver and veins...I occasionally bake a banana/almond cake, or blueberry scones, but never using more than a decilitre of white flour, usually spelt or oat. Instead of regular milk I use almond or oat. I suppressed sugar in tea and coffe and fake sugar too for that matter years ago, and if I eat too much of a cake I get very queezy. For 'good fat' I eat almonds and nuts, avocado and olive oil. I use organic margarine (Omega3 and vitamine E) for baking, and have a special treat of wild, fresh organic salmon (soooo expensive, like 9 dollars for a piece and a half!) from time to time. Don't really need more.
I spoke six months ago with my acupuncturer, who said I should have a more vegetarian diet and that I wouldn't get fatter if I mixed like quinoa with lentils and veggies like they do in India. And you know what? I've actually lot a few pounds, and my body and mind are very satisfied. He also said something that stuck 'Don't stress if you don't eat 'enough".
RuthBru, I just wanted to show you these links about McDonalds.
http://boingboing.net/2011/02/25/mcdonalds-oatmeal-ha.html
http://nutrition.mcdonalds.com/nutrition1/itemDetailInfo.do?itemID=1500
Concerning what is being said about food in the US; I took my family with me some years ago on a trip across the country for a month. We started out in Chicago (and did what's left of Route 66, amazing trip!) and the first week we were around and about mostly in the 'Bible belt', and we were sick to our stomach every night. I must admit we weren't especially careful with what we ate, in California I felt totally different, fresh and light. French food isn't especially diet either, sausage with lentils, coq-au-vin, bread, croissants, desserts that make your heart rate go crazy of sugar etc..Guess one has to find her balance.
I'm very interested in the blood type diet (I'm A so shouldn't eat meat apparently, and my body responds very good to less or no meat at all), anti-candida diet and alcaline diet; I noticed these three recommend about the same type of foods.
I really enjoy this thread, helps me see things clearer.
Bon courage everyone!
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and if you can't stand it and NEED to order a burger and fries or something equally as bad for you; order the smallest size possible, even off the children's menu.....I will never eat perfect, but I can eat smarter!
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Kira
If you shudder at the word :hyperpalability, wait until you read The End of OverEating by Dr. David Kessler. I just know he is going to do for the "food industry" what he did to tobacco when he was head of FDA. He couldn't get the restaurants to tell him what was in their foods ( the stuff preprepared & sent to them) so he went Dumpster Diving around Washington DC. I used to live in DC, and can just imagine this. There was a wonderful article in the Washington Post where his wife told about his dumpster diving to get information. He really is a wonderful person when it comes to telling the public the truth.
Food. I live in very rural western MA, and directly across the street from an organic CSA. There are so many in this area, it is heaven. I also eat my lettuce from my own garden. BLISS. Watching the sugar snap peas flowering, and can't wait to pick them! Going to a friends to get blueberries today. Haven't been in a restaurant in years
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIBdh0BIze8 