I look for other flat chested women. A rant.
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I second Erica's (Barbara's) words regarding padded bras for all she said and more. Still, nothing ventured nothing gained so I would not want to discourage anyone from trying them on, just don't be surprised if they don't work out. I also have used the small foam forms, both weighted and unweighted, and found them to be a really good alternative.
Who you get can make all the difference and I have thanked God many many times for landing where I did. For others I have seen, I have wondered if there is an attitude factor aspect. Almost as if you choose no recon, that they think you don't care what you look like. You really don't want to hear what I think in my most paranoid moments but then those moments are reserved for the worst of the worst surgeons who I think should be cooling their heels in prison. My PS was at a teaching hospital and for that reason I made double sure that only he was doing the surgery. It is a subject that often weighs on my mind and makes me wonder why there are not better standards and stricter oversight of acceptable surgical outcomes.
The other problem that I would envision is that the breast surgery and initial incisions are always done by the BS so that in a sense the damage has already been done or how good the result can possibly be has already happened before the PS would take over to close.
Barbara
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Barbara, I agree that you don't want to be "practiced on" by unskilled residents, but some of the residents are actually better than the surgeons they are working under. It is kind of a crap shoot, but I have worked with some residents who actually "protected" patients from some of the attendings who had terrible reputations technically. The problem was that many of those "bad" surgeons had terrific bedside manners, so patients trusted them, then ended up with poor results. And some of the technically good ones have such lousy bedside manners, are rude, and you just don't want them near you, even if they ARE supposed to be good! How is one supposed to know which is which???? (I never checked any of the online grading systems, not sure I trust them either...).
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I'm back from the hospital and thankfully the surgeon didn't actually have to open the stitches again. This time he used a syringe to drain as much of the hemaetoma as he could. He removed two turkey baster sized syringes of old blood from under the surgical site! I hate to think how much he must have taken out last time because the hemaetoma was so much larger then. I now have a very lumpy chest, but nothing the size of a boob anymore. Hopefully there are no further complications and the rest of the clotted blood will reabsorb into the body (though he did warn me of the possibility of developing a seroma, but we will try not to think about that right now). It already looks better in my shirt to be flat on both sides instead of just one! Can't type too long -chest is sore - just wanted to update those who knew I was going back to the hospital today, and to thank you for your support.
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Djustme,
That sounds very hopeful that you are really on the mend now. I can imagine you are sore, though! Take it easy--you deserve it.
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I had to chime in about plastic surgeons assisting with mastecomies.
My breast surgeon asked a plastic surgeon to assist with my bilateral mastectomy, to plan the incisions. I didn't want reconstruction and told him I wanted to go back to my prepubescent chest. I didn't want to wind up with dog ears. That is why the plastic surgeon assisted. Her surgical report said she performed a maxoplexy (ie removed extra skin), but left my options open for reconstruction. My scars run along my bra line, midsternum to under my arm. There are smaller ones from where my nipple would be to the main scar. Although the scars are extensive, they look good. I don't have extra skin or dog ears. And if I ever elected to have reconstruction, the scars wouldn't be that visable as the long ones would be in the breast crease.
My insurance paid for the plastic surgeon, without argument.
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lisa-e, that's great that you had a positive experience. It sounds as if your BS was very comfortable working with a PS to give you the best result. What you describe is what ideally every woman who's having a mastectomy without reconstruction should experience.
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Hi ladies,
Help! I wore my post surgical Camisole yesterday out to breakfast with the little forms that came with it. I get sore and a little swollen after I wear it. I am only two weeks out tomorrow. I feel good but my left side is still very sore from the lymph node removal. All and all I am doing great any suggestions on what to wear under shirts for now? I think I am more sore now than I was a week ago.. Is this normal? I do see my surgeon on Friday, but I really think I get better info from you ladies..
Thanks in advance,
Carla
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My BS told me she would make me symetrical & leave as little of scar as possible. Considering I'm a keloid/scar former & spitted stitches, I think my chest looks pretty good. It looked really good until I went for RADs bilaterally. Pre-op I thought my BS was crazy because I didn't think I would care what my chest looked like in the end. Glad for my end result. Just didn't know what I didn't know.....
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Carlads, Good to check with your BS, but you're probably doing more than you realize now. My BS didn't want me to wear a bra for 6 weeks. The underarm was sore far longer than my chest. You can disguise being flat with a little vest or sweater when you go out. It took a while before I was comfortable having anything tight. If your incisions look inflamed or red, get them looked at.
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Erica, I think my breast surgeon was stymied on how to give me the results I wanted. Removing extra skin is a 3-D puzzle, one that plastic surgeons are used to. I thought of it as making a pattern.
And I agree that every woman's surgeon be motivated to give the them the results they want.0 -
Here is Tig Notaro totally flat on the Conan show http://brightestyoungthings.com/articles/behind-the-desk-63-tig-notaro-lives.htm
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Djustme: welcome home. Hoping for no further complications.
Tig looks awesome!
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I knew from the day I decided against reconstruction that I wanted to figure out how to go flat for life, I wanted the simplicity, the ease, the freedom. I told myself that I would no longer be shy or modest about my body, I was always modest with my DD sized breasts, and now that I decided to have bilateral mastectomy, I wanted -out- of the modesty business. I asked myself if I would have any regrets, and that if I saw regret in my future, that I should reconstruct, I did not.
I assumed I would have a difficult time getting used to it, I imagined wearing a low cut top (I tried to think up as many scenarios as I could in preparation for surgery and beyond), leaning over and revealing my scars, and rather than create a climate of fear, insecurity, or revulsion of this occurrence, I want(ed) to create a mental climate that accepts my body for what it is, telling myself that this is another form of the female figure. My idea is the more confident I am, the more beautiful I am.
The one major road bump that I had a hand in creating, post surgery, is that I began exploring the idea of androgyny, with a short haircut. My husband needs for me to grow my hair and step away from androgyny. He misses hair.
And honestly, people do notice when you 'push back' in this way. Gender presentation is very important in society, people can get quite nasty if they don't understand your gender. I remember standing and waiting to cross the street, a man came up on my left and looked me over, his energy was so angry and uncomfortable. My husband wanted to punch him out. Afterward, my husband asked me to grow my hair, stating that he didn't want to feel this sort of behavior directed at me.
My husband knows how important it is to me to go flat, he understands that I might feel less than whole if I were to wear breast forms, but secretly, I think he would like it if I did. He has mentioned it, and when he does, his face softens and I know he is speaking from a place of truth, love and care. So tomorrow, I will go without him and try on some breast forms to see how it feels. We have agreed that if I feel OK about it, if I feel good, we will go and purchase them together on Friday. If.
Like Starak says, 'Nothing ventured, nothing gained'.0 -
Momine - I want your secret, how do you find these people? Love Tig!!
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luv titties..
january this year had beautiful d cup implants put in, april diagnosed bc and had implants removed. (ripped off, should have asked for refund)
..or should have kept the implant for later reconstruction...wonder if that would have been possible
implants had nothing to do with causing bc, quite the opposite, if i hadnt had them put in prob would not have found the cancer when we did and it was definitely on its way to progress.
its such a subjective opinion its definitely each to their own.
when i was a teenager hated boobs, wanted to be flat and go braless, was the fashion, then as i grew as a woman found the opposite that for me i wanted breasts and at least a c or d cup..
still trying to get my head around sexually intimately wise, not that i have any problems as not in relationship or out there seeking but boobies are definitely a part of me sexually.
whatever rocks your boat...
x
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I love Tig Notaro and her Live album is awesome. It's the live show she performed in which she talked about her cancer, the death of her mother, and all the other things she'd been hit with over the previous months. It was amazing and I highly recommend it. It's available for download on itunes and Amazon. My husband and I listened to it on the drive to the hospital for my bmx.
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Starak, you mean flat people? I had come across Notaro's stand-up routine on being DXed. Today I was reading Vanity Fair and they had a piece on her that mentioned she had chosen BMX without recon. No secret, I just spend too much time on the internet
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This is slightly off topic, but it makes me so angry that there is not more stigma attached to people who are willing to attack - verbally or otherwise - someone for appearing androgenous. Transgender people are one of the most discriminated against groups in our society, often being killed and assaulted with impunity.
This is not to say that we who are choosing to live flat because of BC can't appear to be attractive and feminine in every way, but I just want to say that we need to push back against those who put people into boxes and become angry when we climb out.
liv - of course, your attitude towards breasts or nobreasts is entirely personal. What we are trying to build here is the idea of choice: that we need to build acceptance for the idea that going flat is a reasonable alternative to recon or wearing forms. We have a long way to go.
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I think those very strict gender representations are more of a problem in the US than in Europe. Not sure why. When I lived in the US, back when I had all my parts and Brigitte Bardot hair, I would constantly get hassled about not being "properly" feminine, people giving me "advice," trying to make me over etc. It was really quite annoying, especially since I felt perfectly feminine. But I didn't wear make-up and frilly clothes. I would also catch a lot of flak for dressing my infant/toddler daughter in navy and grey clothes, for example.
At my kid's school here in Greece, it struck me that you got the entire gamut among the mothers picking up their kids from school. We had a couple who were completely dolled up in killer heels and lucious curls at all times, through the artsy types, the hippies and women who in the US would probably have been accused of being killer lesbians of some kind. Everyone seemed to get along with a live and let live attitude.
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alexandria yes, its just hard for me to even consider that there would be pressure by hopefully only a 'select few' idiots that impose their "ideal" womens form.
my mother also had bc 20 years and never reconstructed and her only regret is that she didnt have both removed as she gets a bit of vertigo because of weight difference...she is definitely all woman and is at peace with her body and always has been from the day her breast was removed.
i just cant entertain that anyone would utter such or suggest that a woman needs to be anything apart from what she is or opts to be. same i cant understand how anyone could possibly tell another being who they should love or marry in regards to sexuality, gay straight, bi hetro who cares as long as they love each other.
crazy world thats why i dont even try to rationalise with people that judge others in any way shape or form.
hey and like its a choice to have your breast removed?
great thread.
x
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Well said, liv. The unfortunate truth is that many of the women here, including me, were pressured at one time or another, to get recon, by our doctors, by co-workers, by friends, even by social workers.
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alex dont get me started,
the list goes on and on, here in aust depending on what state you live and mind you we are supposed to be a democratic country we still preach people's rights, euthanasia, no gay marriage, prostitution the lists goes on and on.
democracy, should mean freedom of choice!! why dont people just mind their own business?
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Momine, thanks so much for bringing Tig Notaro to our attention. I went to her website and you can download a free track from each of her CDs. Also she's got a picture on there that some might like to see. At least I did. My thought was, "she looks a lot like me." (in the body pic)
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Momine,
That is a fantastic video! Thanks so much for the link. I had heard her on This American Life but had never seen her. I cracked up when she described getting her mastectomy, gesturing that funny way with her fingers. Wow, if anyone can put flatness on the map, she can.
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Erica, yes, that thumb flip won me over too, lol. She is very funny, in a super-dry, quirky way.
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Is this the This American Life with Tig Notaro episode that we are discussing? http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/476/what-doesnt-kill-you
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Carlads - I agree with Erica that you are probably doing too much and causing inflammation. That said, after my first mx I couldn't stand to have any camisole, undershirt, bra, etc for longer than an hour or so even at six weeks, without having the scars bandaged. first. So I just went without any undergarment under very loose, and very soft or silky tops. The irritation gets worse as the day goes on, so by evening irritation turned to pain. When I could wear a camisole, it had to hit the exact right height under the arm - high enough to provide protection against fabrics rubbing against the mx scar, but loose enough not to put pressure on the lymph node surgical site. Check with your doctor/nurse to be sure there are no signs of an infection or complication, but you will see lots of talk about discomfort on this and other threads.
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Great link. She looked so confident.
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Momine, thank you for introducing me to Tig Notaro. Loved the way she gestured that her breasts had to go. Done so naturally, without blinking an eye about it. And the fact that she goes flat and is very comfortable about it. Well, that made her a girl after my own heart. She's not in your face about. A very confident young lady.
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Liv, don't know about Australia, but here they're too scared of medical waste to return body parts or implants. I couldn't even get my own pulled tooth recently. My own tooth, sticky with my own very fresh blood, and I couldn't have it. Made me sad, but it was only a front one, not something with multiple roots, like a wisdom tooth. I would have liked to have had whole breasts back when they were done with all the examinations. It would have felt better to me to have buried them in the backyard with a tree planted over them (like my kids' placentas, actually) than knowing they just were thrown away.
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