Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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I have read studies as well that say it is different if you have been raised on soy. Maybe it is like allergies. Kids that are exposed to allergens at an early age have fewer allergies as they age. I think it also has to do with the type of soy they are eating and the fact that they are eating less, if any, meat and/or processed foods. I read one study where they compared stats on Japanese women that were born and raised in Japan with Japanese women raised in Hawaii, and those raised in the continental US. The statistics went up exponentially with the Hawaiian and continental demographic, which they concluded had to do with overall diet, i.e. more meat, fats and junk food for the western cultures. They compared the same among a demographic of African women (where the diet was primarily plant based) and two other areas and found similar results. People don't like to hear it, but what we ingest affects our bodies tremendously.
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I read that too Mini. It was in a book given to me when I got my cancer diagnosis. And when I mentioned it to an Asian woman I know (who doesn't have cancer) she said that many of her friends/relatives who became US residents got cancer.
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I just wanted to say hello and thank you for starting and contributing to this thread. I made the decision to stop Tamoxifen a few weeks ago. Had been taking it since June.... hot flashes bordering on ridiculous. My joints were starting to hurt. It wasn't an easy decision but in the end... and after going through chemo -- I am just done with chemicals. I cannot tell anyone close to me because I don't want to defend my decision and I don't want them infiltrating me with their fears. I've had a Naturopath throughout chemo and plan to make an appointment with her soon to see what she has to say about my decision and how to support it with supplements. I'll share what she says. Meanwhile... I'm going to read and take notes here! Thank you for sharing all this info.
-Shera
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Hi Shera,
Thanks for sharing. I noticed that we have the same dx. Would you mind sharing why your MO recommended chemo? My MO hardly looked at my chart and said he was ordering 4 rounds without blinking an eye. When I asked what my Oncotype results were he said something like.....oh, let me see and he seemed a little irritated. Then he said the test had not been ordered. I asked him to hold off on the chemo until we had Oncotype results. I waited another 2 nerve-wracking weeks and my results were a 3. At that time he said no chemo but threw Arimidex at me for 5 years. When I asked him why, he said it was the Gold standard to prevent recurrence and rushed me out..
After learning about the SEs and staring at the Arimidex bottle for months, I can't bring myself to take them. QOL is important to me and Cancer Math shows little benefit.
Would love to know what your MO told you about chemo. Now I'm wondering if I should have done it. I also would like to feel better about not taking the Arimidex. As you can see, my MO is not real communicative. I'm looking for a new one as we speak because I'm just not real confident with him.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi DigitalCowgirl (I love the name),
The decision to have chemo came after I received the opinions of 2 breast specialists and 3 oncologists -- and all of them said without hesitation that I should have chemo. Reason was mainly my age - 44, and also the multi-centric nature of the tumors. They decide treatment based on the largest tumor -- but I had 4 in my right breast. Even though I was node negative, there are blood vessels to worry about. The first team (breast spec + onc) wanted to be very aggressive but I chose to go with a different team and had the minimum amount of treatments (TCx4) and NO RADS.
No Oncotype score. I gave both teams grief about not getting my Oncotype score -- in both cases they told me it wouldn't change the course of treatment -- no matter what my score -- they were advising chemo as "insurance" against any micro cells that were undetected. My gut instinct was to get the minimal amount of chemo -- that is what I did. All of the doctors said I should do the hormone therapy without a doubt too -- but in this case, I'm choosing to go against their advice.
Until this thread -- I had not heard or read about the metabolism of estrogen being part of what can cause "the perfect storm" for cancer. I'm definitely interested in learning more about that!
Only on page 5 of this thread. Lots of info!
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Dear Shera,
Thanks so much for your detailed and fast response. You really gave me some great info and other things to think about. My MO did not consult with anyone so when I find a new MO I will ask for collaboration. I really think that's important.
Thank God for these boards. The people here are terrific.
As for the Arimidex, I'm with you. I'm going to try to learn as much as possible for a natural alternative.
LOVE your avatar. Awesome picture. Thanks again!
Hugs
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My BC was also multicentric. My main tumor was 1.4 cm but I had extensive DCIS, several tiny tumors and it had travelled (??) to my nipple, so Paget's was also one of my dx. However, my oncotype was 16. The MO said this definitively showed that chemo would only provide benefit of 1-2%, therefore was not worth the potential side effects and risks. I am 95% ER + but have very bad SEs with the AI's. I am also fearful of the long term damage with the AIs. As I have had a hysterectomy, the benefits of the AI is probably down now to about 3%, given I'm 1 1/2 years out, took the AI for 11 mos., and given the size of my tumor; I don't know much about the vascular transmission aspect. Cancermath actually showed no benefit from the AI for me. It's scary though not to continue with it. Life was difficult with the AI's. I am still struggling with pain in my feet and ankles. It almost seems like a circulatory problem or something. I think I've been off it now about 8 wks., although there was a week of Femara in there too. It's difficult emotionally to go against Dr.'s advice.
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My BC was caught early and I did surgery and rads, but I could not tolerate the AI's. The effects made me a zombie and caused me a lot of physical pain. It also affected my vision, appetite, memory, sleep, ability to drive, etc. It may be doable for some people, but for some of us the the SE's are intolerable. What good is living if all you can do is sit in a chair in a stupor? I tried twio and the second one was better - 2 months vs 5 days for the SE's to kick in, but in the end I abandoned them. I know cancer math is not the end all as far as predicting longevity, but if it's right, the 7 months I might lose is not worth the risk for me. I would rather enjoy a shorter time than live like someone in a coma. I eat well, take natural supplements, exercise, see my MO quarterly and pray; not necessarily in that order. :-) That's my treatment plan.
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Mini
Why do you have an MO?
I do not have one now since I am not on the meds .What does the MO help you with ?
Bets wishes!0 -
My ND explained that its processed soy that is the issue. Maybe the way we process soy in US, not sure. I know when I was taking bio-identical hormones (plant based estrogen), my menopause symptoms vanished. Processed soy - flax oil, soy in foods......even flax seeds - unless organic and freshly ground- she said to avoid. Ive even found soy in natural products such as vitamin supplements and lotions - that ive thrown out.
We dont know what causes cancer - and the docs dont know how to prevent it. Its what sucks the most out of this whole thing.
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Ditto on all that Shayne said.
Purple - Just because I'm going natural doesn't mean I'm not doing anything at all. My MO monitors my blood work to make sure that nothing is changing. They found my husband's mx by his blood work much sooner than they would have waiting for symptoms to rear their ugly heads. He was feeling fine but his blood work was hinky. They had him come in the following week to have it re-done to see if the differences were just variances at the lab. At that time the numers were triple what they were the week before. He had a CT scan and there was a baseball-size tumor in his chest. Had he not gone in for the blood work, it would likely have spread throughout his body much more more before he exhibited symtoms or had any blood work done. As it was he had surgery and chemo and has been fine for nearly 30 years. I'm sure he hopes to talk me into to Tamox along the way. :-)
I go quarterly and will do so for 2 years and 1x year for the remaining 5 years. After that I will go exclusively to me regular doc for both BC and general health concerns.
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I dropped my onc after quitting Aromasin. I think my internist and cardiologist can do the blood tests. One less doctor visit to worry about and also less expensive. The onc charged $150 for a 10 minute conversation.
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I don't have a cardiologist and my MO is 35 miles away vs 4 for my MO. If I was doubling up on treatments, I would agree, but for me, this situaltion works out best for me. I only see my reg doc for routine stuff and seasonal issues/emergencies. Also, my docs are in the same hospital so info is available to each, so there are no miscommunications.
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im not fond of my onc...
doesnt make eye contact... seems way to busy for me... and 10 minutes would be a long appointement
i will probably change down the road... just felt like if i argued now, it would be to much.
Plus he seems like such a small part of the team... at least from my endthank you forthis thread...i need to read a lot about this before im presented with this option... sigh
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1) I thought flax oil was fine and good for other things. ???
2) Do your MO's do yearly chest Xrays? I know the first one said no tests, but my current MO wants a yrly chest xray. I am due for it but i don't like the idea and have procrastinated.
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Flax oil is HIGHLY processed. Great for people who are not er/pr+
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I believe I read that flax seeds were not good for BC but that flax seed oil was good, I think it was for Omega's, brain health, cholesterol, lots of other stuff. Can it be estrogenic?
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I talked with a cancer nutritionist and she said that since I was highly ER+ to avoid all forms of flaxseed and its oil. Also soy. She said the occasional chinese meal was okay just don't make a habit of it since they generally contain soy products.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you. This has been most helpful to me. I am fighting breast cancer and even though I eat most of the right foods that you mention because I know it helps, I really didn't know why. Why is so important to me because it helps me stay on track when I understand why. I truly appreciate your post.
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It will be 2 years on Nov 17th that I discovered my second cancer. Since that time nobody has mentioned chest x-rays, thank goodness. Of course you can always refuse---
On the other hand, I get dental x-rays once a year or more often if there is a problem. They tell me there is very little radiation, but I still don't like getting them.
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I just got dental xrays - and i noticed this time the girl put a separate protector on my neck.....as well as my body. I was glad, and I did NOT want to get xrays after my rads this summer.......and everything else that got radiated.
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Mini
RE: "Purple - Just because I'm going natural doesn't mean I'm not doing anything at all."
I sure didnt mean to imply that at all. I guess I just thought one of your other drs wpould take care of bloodwork etc ...My MO feels she doesnt need to see me as ' her job is to monitor the meds"
Do others have this issue ?0 -
She orders them routinely, annually for all of us. I think I'm going to change MOs. I am just not feeling that she is up to date.
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That does sound old-fashioned. My friend had a doctor who did chest x-rays annually starting when she was in her 20s! She had no heart problems (still doesn't) and neither did her parents.
Incidentally she developed two types of breast cancer in both breasts and had a bi-mastectomy a few months ago.
Wonder if there is a connection. She was also on estrogen for about 20 years - Premarin.
I feel so sorry for the poor horses who have to stay pregnant all the time just so we can get a drug which we now know can cause cancer.
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As a child (back in the 40's) they did chest x-rays at least twice a year for well over 5 years......they thought I had TB. Eventually they decided I had either been cured or that I never did have it. Fast forward to the late 80's I was on the Etroderm patch and Provera for the following 11 years, followed by bio-identical hormones until I was diagnosed in 2009. IDC in the right breast only, however that breast was always a lot more developed than the left, enough of a difference when I went through puberty that my mother took me to a doctor. He said just individual differences. Guess I have always wondered if that breast reacted to the estrogen more completely than the left (plus all the x-rays)and subsequently it was the one to grow the cancer. Any thoughts?
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Yes, I agree that oligomets are a subject that docs don't agree on. My single bone met, 2cm, was found quite by accident . Treated with rads immediately, it is now necrotic. Ultimately, bc will cause my death but I can't help but believe that finding that one met early, and treating it, will prolong my life. You can call me naive or overly optimistic but I have been living with stage IV and living well. My mo and RO treat this as if it is a chronic condition. One day, it will beat me but I'm very glad it was found early.
Caryn0 -
In 1982 when I found my first cancer the surgeon took it out in his office. It was found to be cancer a few days later and he immediately sent me in for a bone and liver scan. He said "I need to know if it has spread; because if it has there is now point in doing the mastectomy!"
They found some hot spots in my bones, but the radiologist who was a runner told the surgeon they were healed stress fractures from running (which they were)
I had no follow-up except for a yearly blood test (which I quit going for because insurance wouldn't cover it!)
Amazing, isn't it?
Then 2 years ago I found a lump in the other breast - mammogram, Us, MMI, wire insertion, SN excision, lumpectomy,etc etc. rads (which I turned down) Aromasin (which I could not tolerate)
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Caryn
My husband had stage 4 cancer in 2009 . They really thought he was a goner.
He runs circles around most ppl I know and his last scan showed NED though I have to kock on wood because he is going for a colonoscopy this week.... we'll see.He looks and feels better than I do ! ( but then again, I have cancer and a MULTITUDE of other things :>)
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I have had many many many chest x rays.( lung disease )
There is NO family hx of BC at all.
I went thru meno at age 41 ( LATE meno supposedly is a risk)
Last yr I had 2 chest x rays only a few mos apart.NO more chest x rays for me
(too little, too late , but .....)
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RE: DIM
I have decided I am going to order some after reading several studies that claim the DIM is NOT goiterous .I know many of you take differnet brands, and would like a suggestion as to ' the best' based on :
no add'l additives, low dosage and purity.Thanks to all of you !
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