Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
Comments
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kayb, just curious if your sister had radiation as well as tamoxifen. Thanx for the encouragement. I keep going back and forth on HT. Since I have clean margins with intermediate grade I feel it would make sense to try it. I will see what the MO has to say next week.
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I think there have been requests on this thread, but I've not seen a list on natural estrogen control. I'd love to see something along those lines, it is a benefit to all of us, no matter what drug you are or aren't on. I know there are different lines of thought, but I'm following the idea that produced soy is not good, but edamame is no problem, for instance. The flax thing is tough, there is a lot of study on both sides and some think it's beneficial to ER+ patients. Generally, however, I'd love some kind of resource. I have tons of things collected in my head, from melatonin to avoiding parabens, but nothing definitive.
I've been on Tamoxifen for two years and am doing fine, but my period came back after 2 years and 2 months. It will be interesting to see what the story is (visit onc in December). And it's also hard to parse all this stuff: what is Tamoxifen, chemo, stress, natural aging, etc. I do the gym 3x a week, lots of weight training. This has been the best thing for me since cancer. Also helpful to the bones for those on AIs.
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Kayb: It was my decision. I called and left a message saying I was stopping the drug. He said he wanted to see me anyway. I didn't go because every visit is very expensive and I have to pay 20 percent. I was willing to discuss things on the phone, but he wasn't.
He is a very nice, warm person, but I don't think he knows that much about breast cancer. Just a feeling I got the times I saw him.
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And I figure my internist or even my cardiologist can order any needed blood tests. I hate having so many doctors - it is time-consuming and expensive.
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The "more natural one" is tamoxifen, which sure doesn't looks natural to me.
Thats because it is not !0 -
Has anyone read about a daily carrot in the morning as a supposed method of lowering estrogen? I just came across this and wondered whether it has any validity.
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kayb,-After re-excision I had 1 1/2 cm.clear margins. My RO didn't think I needed radiation for DCIS with good margins. I guess we were on the same page with that. My BS strongly suggests Tamoxifen tho.
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momoschki-that's the first I have heard of carrots reducing estrogen. So far most sites are suggesting celery, parsley, and cruciferous vegetables such as broccoli, brussel-sprouts and cauliflower. Love to know more about the carrots.
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I have no idea whether the carrot thing is valid-- came across it in my obsessive Internet searching. Apparently promoted by someone named Ray Peat in the 70's . Purportedly, one carrot in the morning (on empty stomach, preferably shredded lengthwise with oil and vinegar) should lower estrogen and up progestetone, thus eliminating estrogen dominance.
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I know people that have taken the meds and are fine. I've known people that have not take them and are/were fine; my mother being among the latter group. And I've known people that have had the opposite experience. If there was one fool proof method, we'd all be cured. There are also those of us that have medical and/or genetic issues to take into consideration when making our decisions. I do agree that like the review of any thing-a hotel, an apt., an appliance-people that have had a negative experience are more likely to post something; however, that being said, people on here have asked specifically for the experiences of others and they were told what others have experienced. And the fact of the matter is that a lot of people have had very negative experiences. Additionally, people can and do get new and/or recurring cancers while on the meds. Not to mention that Tamox is on the ACS's own list of known carcinogens not once but 3 times. It's not a simple black or white issue. If you only want to hear the good, than perhaps the question should be formulated in a different manner or asked in a Tamox support thread. I don't believe that anyone wants to dissuade anyone from doing what they think is right for their personal situation, but I also don't think that you're going to get the whole story on a big pharma web site or an all pro med thread.
OK, rant over. :-)
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Well said, kayb.
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I wasn't finding fault with anyone for asking, simply weighing in on why there were negative responses given and where they might find more of the type of responses they were looking for. I thought I conveyed that in my response. Apparently I didn't do it well. I believe we all have to make the choices that are right for us. I have no problem with agreeing to disagree with someone. Far from it. I come to these pages to hear varying opinions, not just rah, rah posts from people selling something.
I too had to stop taking meds because of the severe SE's. Mine were so many and so severe they have them listed as allergies. I have been told by both the well-meaning and the mean-spirited that, basically, I'm a fool for not taking them; that I'm signing my own death warrant. I've been told the good, the bad and the ugly about treatments from professionals, friends and family. I would never think of telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do for their own treatment, but I will answer honestly when someone asks me about my experience. And in my instance it was decidely negative. I'm sure others feel the same way. Why does saying that make me devisive or negative? Especially given that this is a natural treatment thread. I would expect to hear more against the drugs than for them. Isn't that the purpose of this thread?
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Actually Kayb, we're more alike than you know. I had radiation. I tried AI's, but they made me sick. I go back and forth with the pros and cons of meds or no meds. I read multiple threads here and other places to learn what I can - much of which is often conflicting. I can make equally compelling arguements on both sides of the meds or no meds issue.
I think they label the threads the way they do because they are trying to avoid the arguing about which is right, which I understand. If you want info on one subject, you don't want to wade through a lot of other stuff to find it. I came here after I found I couldn't take the medicine. I've learned aong the way that that might not be such a bad thing afterall. Maybe we need an anything goes thread. :-)
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I took Tamoxifen for six months after I was done with radiation and the SEs were terrible. I had a hard time sleeping, concentrating, bone and muscle pain, and no sexual urges at all. I'm now 32, and I just felt like my life was going down the toilet. I want to have a family and feel sexual attraction. I was so set in my decision and now 8 months later... I feel that oh crap, what did I do? My cancer was "strongly" estrogen positive, and I feel like I might have signed my death sentence. This is a horrible feeling. How do we know? If only psychics were real...
My boyfriend is wanting me to go back on Tamoxifen at least for a year, try to give it a go. My oncologist, of course, wants me to go back on. The thought of feeling like a zombie of myself for the next year is just horrible. Why are these our options?
This thread gives me hope. I'm not alone in thinking the AIs and the related meds can't be the only way. I need to change my lifestyle to help improve my odds, especially if I keep denying Tamoxifen. I'm 32 and not even remotely close to menopause. This sucks. I wish I could tell my hormones to stop trying to cause problems.
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i don't see why anyone with a double mastectmy needs an AI. the breast tissue is gone---
in 1982, i had a mastectomy - no other treatment in those days-- no recurrence - i was 46. the most recent one was a new primary so evev if the ai supposedlr helps prevent a recurrence, it won;t prevent a new cancer will it?
sorry about the typing -broke arm last week in a biootcamp class. i have bad osteoporosis and the few months on aromasin didn;t help so i think i'll lame the break on the drug. LOL
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your dog is so cute! i have 3 myself - they help me so much to deal with things--
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thanks for the link
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Boomersmom - I'm older than you but I feel the same way. AI's were horrible for me. They have them down as an allergen for me. I'm afraid of Tamox for the same reasons. I remind myself that people can and do get new and recurring cancers while on the drugs. The majority of women survive without them. I have changed my eating habits and take DIM and other supplements and live the best I can. There is a quality of life factor involved. There's a difference between living and surviving. I'm choosing to live. What else can we do?
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Wondering if anyone has had good results in lowering estrogen levels by using vitex. My naturopathic doctor just mentioned this to me as a possible alternative.
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the well-meaning and the mean-spirited that, basically, I'm a fool for not taking them; that I'm signing my own death warrant.
My BS at MGH said , and I quote : " We really have no idea whether they help or not!"
My current MO said, and I quote : " I would say it makes no diference whatsoever if you take them or not "
I am guessing if I were a different stage this would not have been their comments. I agonized way too much over it.Now that I have lymphedema, I rarely think of BC!
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Dogs, if there is lymph involvement, as one example, then an AI may play an important part in warding off mets.
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I know this is a natural thread so please bear with me. If the goal is to reduce estrogen, why not more oopherectomies? I had my hysterectomy due to cervical cancer before BC but now I am glad. Yes I am prone to depression and anxiety, no doubt, but I do take some comfort in being ovary free.
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Mybee, as far as I understand, many people who go natural want to avoid surgery as well as drugs.
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Purple, really surprised to hear what your doctors said, but shows that they are thinking for themselves and not just quoting what the studies say.
Mybee, removing ovaries is pretty drastic, especially if a woman is still premenopausal. I always think about it being equivalent to removing the testicles on a male. In many cases, women want to find natural ways to have the beneficial estrogen still in their body, while eliminating the bad estrogen, which is what some supplements, such as DIM are supposed to do. Also, I believe the bad estrogens that need to be eliminated are the xenoestrogens, also known as endocrine disruptors, commonly found in many household and cosmetic products, as well as pesticides and other chemical sprays. I refuse to accept that our natural bodily estrogen is the culprit here!
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I had never heard that any estrogen was considered 'good' estrogen when your cancer is ER+. My tumor was 95% ER+.
At the time I had my hysterectomy (for cancer), I was not going to have my ovaries removed. But the nurse talked me into it two days before surgery, telling me that she had seen too many cases of ovarian cancer, the 'silent' cancer, and that I no longer had a need for them. She said that after a short time " You'll feel better than you've ever felt". Also - the doctor indicated that the loss of your uterus cuts off most of the blood supply to the ovaries anyway, so they only last a few years. I was already 50 yrs old and perimenopausal, skipping periods, so I impulsively said yes. I regretted it completely because life was very hard after that for me. The anxiety, the depression, moodiness, hot flashes and night sweats were tremendous. There were nights I couldn't sleep at all. So I took ERT(many types, including bio-identicals) which helped some, but I was never the same. I do think though that is why I have such difficulty tolerating the AIs. I think it is just too much, perhaps at my age and in combo with fibromyalgia. It's just too much estrogen deprivation for my body.
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Rgiuff, in this context, if it works like estrogen in the body and is metabolized like estrogen in the body then it fuels estrogen-dependent cancers. AIs prevent the body from metabolizing the available estrogen. I think that DIM does something similar, albeit probably on a slightly smaller scale. You can also eliminate some estrogen from being used by simply eating a lot of fiber, according to one article I saw.
However, as far as I know, there are not two kinds of estrogen, good and bad. Whether made by the body or pseudo-estrogen from some other source or synthetic estrogen from hormone replacement therapy, if it gets metabolized as estrogen by your body it will fuel the cancer.
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. I was already 50 yrs old and perimenopausal, skipping periods....
What a shame mybee!
Stupid nurse. Some of these med. prof. apparantly have never heard of " First, do no harm!"0 -
Look up Indole 3 carbinol or see info on cancer active dot com re natural approaches to hormone positive cancers.............a lot of good research on there
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is dim a pill? i really should be taking something (other can just eating lots of veggies)
what else can i take?
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Yes, DIM is a capsule. Available at most health food stores. I buy mine at Whole Foods. Yup, I take DIM and Arimidex. My bc is 100% ER+ so why give it any fuel? BTW, I have extremely mild se's from Arimidex, joint stiffness in knees if I sit too long. Good reason to keep moving!
Caryn0
