Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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Bluebird, what exactly does the PET-scan show? I am not sure I understand what "systemic" means here and how that would show on a PET.
As far as what the doctor said, he means that the hormone blockers block whatever estrogen is in your body from acting on the cells. Even if you have low circulating estrogen, without the blockers, whatever estrogen is circulating is free to act on the cells.
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You might do better to pose your question in the IDC forum. I think itd be really hard to go to a doctor who didnt have command over the English language. Its hard to understand doctors as it is sometimes. I wouldnt leave the office until I fully understood what he was saying, just for the future.
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Valarian should only be taken for 3 months at a time, as well. I have tried sleeping pills, but they only last a few hours, affect my memory and once I drove w/o realizing it. No more Ambian. Now I use Xanax. For the moment it's working. It lets me drift off to sleep, doesn't give me nightmares, and doesn't affect my memory. I'm still trying to learn to meditate and do other natural things, but so far nothing works. I have been an insomniac for a long time, but the cancer drugs racheted it up a level. And it hasn't gotten much better since I stopped.
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Xanax didnt work for me......lol. Ive been insomniac since my 20s, but yea, this definitely racheted up quite a bit. Im afraid of sleeping pills......so far the benadryl is working ok. Id kill for 6 hours of sleep right now
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Melatonin is recommended not just for sleeping, but as a supplement that prevents cancer or cancer recurrence. The normal dose for that is 5 mg for people under 50 and 10 mg for people over 50. It can even go to 50 mg daily. I just had this morning this conversation with an MD lady who is also a naturopath. She suggested I up my Melatonin from 5 mg to 10 mg as I am over 50 now.
And as I just did some research on that:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/402500-melatonin-dosage-for-diseases/
And there are many many references and studies all stating the same.
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Ive read reports to the contrary - but go with it if its making life better for you!
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Were they BigPharma reports?
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Day.....according to my Doctor, there is no merit to "alkaline diets" .....just a money making endeavor. He said that the body can perfectly balance itself when it comes to acidity!!!!!
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Are you sure it's not 50 mcg and not mg? 50 is way too high. I take a low dose, but would never take 10mg let alone 50. 5 was bad enough. The problem with melatonin sleep is I don't get that REM sleep. It's a half awake, half asleep mode. I always say that i would never do what Michael Jackson did, but I completely understand the desperation that you can have in wanting a good night sleep. I would kill for a good, straight 8 hours sleep. I'm totally jealous of my son. He will say I'm tired, I'm going to bed flip over and be out like a light.
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The only good sleep I've had in years is when I was put out for the lumpectomy. They gave me the Michael Jackson drug and all I remember is the burning when it entered the vein. The doc said "Sorry about that" and then I was out.
But after the surgery I felt so refreshed. The feeling lasted for a couple of days. Amazing!
Now I have weird dreams from my afib medication or maybe the blood thinner. I never feel rested in the morning.
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The ND I went to recommended the alkaline diet and he's been a peds oncologist for probably about 30 years and an ND for 5 years. Yes, the body will regulate its ph but if you constantly eat acidic it probably has toi work a lot harder at it. I don't know who is making money on it since its just healthy foods from the grocery store. The water machines, yes that's a big money maker.
Essa it sounds like he is saying it doesn't matter how much estrogen is showing up on a blood test because maybe that's not an indication of the amount that gets to the receptors. (?) I do know my E has been very low for years and when I got mets I said that to the onc and he said yes, but there was probably a liiiiitle (piching his fingers together) bit that got into those cells.
Another thing I just remembered: when I saw the holistic doc he said the letrozole will take care of the E that my body makes, but what to worry about is the xenoestrogens from plastics and chemicals. He said the letrozole will not take care of that so we have to do out best to avoid those things.0 -
dogsandjogs - you crack me up!! I agree - thats the last good sleep I can remember too! No dreamin'....and wakin' up to see a nurses face close up isnt the best, but yea, woke up pretty refreshed, LOL!
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Mini1, actually, if you go read on those links I posted, you will see it's mg not mcg. I have been taking 5 mg for over a year now. I started with 3 mg and wasn't enough, then I upped to 6 mg - 2 pills - and I was sleeping too much, then I found 5 mg at Puritan's Pride. I have no issues with it and I sleep very well. Tonight I took 10 mg for the first time. As I am not taking Letrozole or any other AI anymore, I want to take everything else possible along with the DIM - and Melatonin is one of them.
As for the alkaline diet... I wasn't able to interrupt my honey tonight (he's working on something important it seems lol) so I think I'll let this article speak for me for now. Check the "theoretical problems" as they explain better than what I tried to do.
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My best friend is a nutritionist and she introduced me to the concept of alkaline foods - not as a "diet". I dont eat everything on the alkaline list and nothing from the acidic list. I use it as a guideline to healthy eating and chose more foods from the alk list and minimal from the acidic list. Any time you eliminate a whole range of food, be it this chart or the Atkins diet - its not good. Everything in moderation. Ive changed my diet since my dx to include whole foods, raw foods, organic only.....no dairy, no sugar and definitley no processed foods. But I have an occasional meal that includes chicken or fish, wine and once in awhile coffee. I just keep it at a minimum.
As for the melatonin issue - there are pros and cons that anyone can find on the net. The one thing that is in agreement is to check with a doctor before taking it. It is known to cause serious side effects if someone has health issues such as depression, diabetes, heart ailments, and certain meds. Its not like Vit C that you can just take on a whim. It didnt work for me, but it works for some people without any problems. Just reiterating that you need to research anything you take, be it herbal remedies, supplements or vitamins and consult a professional.0 -
Day, I completely agree that the logic fail in the concept behind the alkaline diet is massive.
That it may still be a healthy guideline probably has to do with the overlap between so-called acidic foods and inflammatory foods.
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The changing what I am doing now and taking the hormone drug, not happening.
Then I dont see your question- just your answer. The question is: Can you live with that ? Sounds like you might have a hard time doing so.
I would seriously consider what the onc. said.
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Shayne, I am going to tell you this. BEFORE I was diagnosed with BC, I have been eating for decades a healthy vegan diet and was VERY active. If I look at that diagram, I was eating mostly "alkaline". Nevertheless, I was severely depleted of vit D, so they put me on massive amounts of D.And, obviously, I still got BC,
AFTER I had BC, I went vegetarian (eating also diary, eggs and fish). Impossible to lose the weight I had put on during treatment (mostly from chemo and not being able to work out or exercise, having had 6 surgeries in 2 1/2 years). In the meanwhile, I got arthritis, and apparently I'm depleted of vit B12. No matter how much I reduced the calories, I couldn't lose weight. No matter if I would eat more calories, I wouldn't gain weight.
2 1/2 weeks ago, I started Atkins. I lost 11 lbs and my memory is coming back, my joint pains have diminished and I'm more active. Will I continue it? Yes, until I shed the remaining 50 lbs of the weight I had gained during BC treatment. Will I go back to my vegan diet? Probably not, probably I'll be again on a vegetarian one.
So, you see why I am very skeptical of a lot of things.
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Every body is different and responds differently - to diets, drugs, supplements....life. I eat the way I do to feel better, not just because i think it will keep cancer away, because we have no idea what causes cancer. If what you eat makes you feel better, by all means, keep eating that way. It might not work for everyone is all im saying.
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Yes, Shayne, but there's a difference between a diet that can keep your body healthy and one that is toted as a cure-it-all.
Mind you, I am not on Atkins for it's "health benefits " only for losing weight. As I said, I will go back to a vegetarian diet, slowly and easing out into it. But as I said in my previous post, a diet cannot really guarantee anything. Whomever is trying to promote this and that, is doing it only for money and with no regards for the people desperate enough to go for it.
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Im not promoting it and ive never said it was a cure for cancer. Im not on any diet. I take what resonates with me and leave the rest. Im not eating a certain way to lose weight, i dont need to - I eat the way i do to be healthy. Im not hear to promote a diet - just sharing information. Atkins did it for the money with no regards for people who were desperate to go on it. My brother being one of them - who got very very ill while eating that way. People need to make educated choices....
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Actually Atkins believed in it and he was on it himself. That is supposedly why he had a heart attack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Atkins_%28nutritionist%29
I am not planning to be on it for more than 4-5 months. But for a short period of time you can be on Atkins and still be safe healthwise, all it takes is to actually follow it properly and take supplements, fiber and drink at least 1/2 gall water a day.
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But Purple --- I thought that was why we are here - treating ER+ cancer naturally, sans the drugs. Yes, as you suggest, I am considering it, as I have always considered chemo, but still it is not happening for me now for many reasons, especially the experiences of others.
Momine --- Systemic cannot be shown on a PT scan, it shows the activity of the cancer at levels from 1 - 50 or so. Tumors, nodes, masses, whatever, also it can show that cancer cells are throughout the vascular system and the body light up due to blood vessels affected too. Systemic though means cancer is in a person and active, then it is systemic, there is no surgery or tx in one place to tx cancer since it is right there where it is showing up and everywhere with the circulating cells, thus systemic. As in, it just is.
What it showed for me. Unfortunately, the PT scan showed the two axilla nodes w cancer still there and larger. Plus there are now two nodes with cancer, one hilar and one subcardinal (both by bronchial tree and lungs) and that the nodules in my lower right lung that the other PT scan supposedly caught but my other onc in June 2012 failed to mention gggggrrrr are larger but only active like a possible infection, same as the node in juglar area on left was back then.
So, what I have done, not good enough. Oncologist grabbed my notebook as I was holding it in my hands and said, "This is an aggressive cancer and what you are doing seems to be controlling it." He wants me to consider the hormone blockers, of course, and says that is all he has to offer right now, since rads, chemo and surgery are not the answer for me now with this. But he has requested I become a patient of Dr. Kathy Miller in Indianapolis IU Simons Cancer Canter. He says she is a world class breast cancer oncologist, she is doing research, and I guess he believes she will find me a good candidate for a pill which he said he has seen it dissolve the cancer quickly. He said, "I could not believe it!" He wants me to go, appt is Feb 27. Until then, I cannot really do any protocol so that I will remain a candidate, so the hormone therapy is for later anyway, after she approves it, if I do too, then. But I don't know if I see the point if this research trial (phase 1 or 2) can take the cancer down to dormant.
HLB, Monine -- yes, you are right, whatever is there, it is the issue. And now I see w eyes wide open that if the low amounts of ER is there, then cancer patients are still getting mets.
Sorry, Shayne -- I misled you. The onc has a wonderful command of English, but he has these cute ways of not quite getting the slang. I misled you when I placed that remark of him being trained in Turkey behind the receptors, actually he thought I would not understand what receptors are so he was trying to simplify for me. And I do agree, I learned in my 20s to avoid MDs who do not communicate clearly to me. Now I am vigilant to only be surrounded by MDs who treat me well and as an alternative through and through, that was quite a task to find them.
LOVEEssa
A comment on the acid vs alkaline body. I do believe the body will do what it will, no matter what we are eating. I see a difference in my saliva and urine depending on what I eat, but it has to be drastic food changes. In some ways, the attempt to eat alk. is leaning in a healthier direction from what I have seen on the list. The acidic is a limited foods list, not a never eat it. And lentils and legumes are on the acid list but the highest food for soaking up excess estrogens.
Every day, sometimes 2x a day, to have a short time of higher alk. I drink a hot lemon toddy I make with organic Italian volcanic lemon juice, god it is good. Cinnamon, chastetreeberry extract powder, l-tyrosine, tumeric, a splash of apple juice, a touch of manuka honey.
The study I just read was about the way we are born, example from Life Extension Mag, Dr. Gonzalez / Dr. Kelley's Enzyme Therapy. Dr. G believes the physiology of patients w cancer is either too acid or too alkaline. Too acidic = sympathetic nervous system w flight or flight brain activity (me) which gears up heart / lungs at expense of organs like pancreas, stomach, having high vigilant stress responses. Too alkaline is parasympathetic where pancreas, intestines, other organs work overtime but stress organs are asleep. This from a doctor and scientists who spent a lifetime studying cancer patients.
ssooooooo.... I eat chocolate to calm down. *_*
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I didn't know that a PET could show circulating tumor cells. Thanks for the info.
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It can't. Read again. It can show where cancer is gathered and the levels of activity it gives the sugar dose injected. But there have to be 'enough' in one node or tumor or organ. What might be confusing you from what I said is the vascular system. When they open a person for surgery and they can see the cacer cells are even in the blood vessels, veins, arteries. There have to be a lot of c cells to be seen, and on the PT scan there would need to be alot there too I guess, to be detected.
The blood tests show the CTC is all I know.
e
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Ah, ok, so the PET showed the cancerous nodes, and based on that the conclusion is that it is systemic?
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Bluebird - please tell me where you get the organic italian lemon juice!! Sounds amazing! I drink hot water with lemon every morning, first thing - aids in digestion, great for the lymphatics. Then a green smoothie...... Its amazing how much energy I have from greens......and no coffee. I havent gotten sick, not even a cold since my dx. Both husband and child have gotten flu twice - knock on wood - im still standing. Except for these rotten side effects im dealing with...... Monday i see the Naturopath - ill share what she recommends for treating estrogen levels, if you all wanna know. Super psyched to see her. She is a former radiation oncology nurse. Im glad I have her in my corner.
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Hello, new here and also having problems with melatonin
Day, one of your links warns about using this supplement and hormone sensitive cancer:
'Use of oral melatonin may delay menopause by modulating levels of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and estrogen. Patients with hormone sensitive cancer should consult their physicians before considering melatonin supplementation'
Having read this, I've decided not to use it. Thanks !
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Dr. Oz recommends adding a drop of hot sauce to the morning lemon water and drinking it warm. The hot sauce has capsaytion (can't spell it so I went phonetically
) in it and does something that is good for the liver and kidneys. Doesn't sound appetizing, but the people that tried it said it wasn't bad. I know I can tell the difference when I drink lemon water in the morning.In looking at the high and low acid foods lists, it makes sense in my case. My dominant diet and subsequent pancreatic issues match up with the list. I agree that different diets work for different people. The bad thing about the Adkins is that it throws the body into ketosis and that can be stressful to your other organs. People don't realize that something like 80% of our immune capabilities are in our gastro-intestinal system. And given that we have comprimised immune systems already, I would be scared to go on it now; although I have used it to take off a quick 5-10lbs now and again in the past.
I hate that everything with this stupid disease is so contradictory. Half the research says something is good, the other hald that it's bad. I'm just going with my gut for now. That's all I can do unless I want to drink the kool-aid and goosestep with big pharma.
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I know! Not a lot of long term studies on anything, pharms or supplements. Thats why if you can find a good doctor, nutritionist, naturopath.......that can explain things. Esp a naturopath who takes the whole body in to consideration before recommending something.
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I'm lucky that I work at a company that that does consulting for organic food companies. I get lots of good leads on healthy foods. I tried a great drink called Mama Chia that has Chia seeds in it. It's organic, with 6 grams of protein, omega 3, 6 & 9's. It looks a little odd with the seeds and it's a little like drinking half set jello, but it taste good. I'm going to Google it to see what it cost and if I can find it a little closer to home.
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