Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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ive never tried chia seeds......it looked a little squirrely.....
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but still it is not happening for me now for many reasons, especially the experiences of others.
WHICH Others ? You're on the Natural forum!
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Shayne --- I understand that lemon juice is at Costco. I always purchase mine from a health food store here in country. Perhaps an online order?
Vanilla --- I see what and where you are reading. Perhaps an all natural endocrinologist will guide you, it is very controversial and heavy to digest and trust, I know.
Momine --- chemo and hormone drugs are systemic therapies because the cancer cells are most likely everywhere. Therefore, the fact I have four cancer nodes in different locations is enough to realize the cancer is systemic and rads in one place is not going to cut it. I guess I don't understand what you don't undersand. Maybe someone else can help with your question to me.
Woke up in the night w a urinary tract infection that was powerfully painful. Used the Ojibwa tea, licorice and parsley caps, olive leaf extract, and a few more. Hubby bringing home cranberry juice. I am looking up the uva ursi now too. Am much improved, but when it was sneaking up on me yesterday I was so tired and shaking, wish I had known what it was then or thought to hit back then, darn memory.
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Edited to say - oooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh, Shayne was the one suggesting the IDC forum. That takes some question out of this. Sorry, and listening in on the IDC is a good suggestion anyway.
Also, asked Hubby to come and help me understand the conversation, it is befuddled in my mind. We have decided you, Purple, are joking. The experiences of the conventional would be much different than the alternative perceptions, right?
Here's what I originally said, so I am not recanting......
Purple, what? Tell me you are teasing me, otherwise I am dubbing myself a meathead for the day.
I have been on this thread from near the beginning. I came in a page back to be talked down from the confusion I had when my oncologist said the estrogens levels are still there, though low, and that means not dodging the bullet of ER+ hitting the receptors even though using all these supplements and choices and precautions.
The oncologist is offering for me to go on hormonal therapy too, but I do not prefer that, which is why I have been so engrossed in understanding the ER+ and treating naturally. You said to me to strongly consider his recommendation. I am but I still do not want to use the drugs. I don't understand your words. (edited to add, in case you are realizing we legally cannot be advised NOT to listen to the MDs?)
Also when I say I am steering away from the drugs for hormone control due to the experiences of others, you ask me which others and say we are in the natural forum. Well, there have been many here and on many the alt threads who have used these horomonal drugs and not done well with the SEs, also on the other forums where I read but do not converse, as I am not comfortable with the challenges I get for being alternative.
So, I don't understand what you are saying. Please just tell me you are teasing me and I am slow on the punchline.
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Hi BlueBird Essa, a natural endo hum.....must be hard to find......I take a bunch of supps but melatonin never did anything for me. I'm doing passionflower extract now but need to use it more consistently and magnesium throughout the day. Insomnia can be a real beast. Your tagline says don't go back to sleep at dawn, yawn !!!!! lol
I go with my gut feelings too ("Why you should go with your gut feeling" NewScientist - "doctors and gamblers are used to trusting their instinct" the most......)
Plus I try to avoid as much as possible anything that will promote estrogen, the ugliest beast, if I do say so myself.
"eat down on the food chain to trigger the body's survival mechanisms. Chrysin, apigenin, quercetin & narigenin all inhibit estrogen, as well as DIM and the indoles 3 (carbinol and acetate)"
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Vanilla, I thought it was implicitly understood that when I mentioned "over 50" in the same post I mentioned "AI" that it is for a menopausal state. When you are in menopause you do not produce FSH. Your ovaries are shut down. I know for a fact that I do not produce FSH, and that the melatonin doesn't make me produce it because my oncologist checks all these levels twice a year.
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Bluebird Essa, concentrated camomille decoct should do the trick. You can combine with some stinging nettle leaf to help with cleaning the urinary tract. Camomile is the easiest to find, but if you can get, yarrow is the most potent. You can combine also with corn silk.
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The phrase go with your gut has scientific merit. Your brain literally sends out distress signals to your gut. We've just been taught to tune out our natural instincts.
I have moments of doubt too, and if someone could tell me if I drank the koolaid there would be a 100% cure rate for me, I'd learn to live with the side effects. But the fact of the matter is women can and do deveop new and recurring cancers while on drugs and, conversely, women that don't take any Rx drugs survive. The truth is that they don't know. Yes, there may be a higher rate of survival in some studies, but with the control groups so loosely monitored, how do you know that some, if not all, of the positive results come from those women opting to live a healthier lifestyle after their dx? And why should I assume that I won't be one of the non-drug survivors?
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Bluebird - you have probably already read the threads LIFE ON AROMASIN and BOTTLE OF TAMOXIFEN - and youll hear both sides of people with good experiences and bad. I had SEVERE side effects that Im still dealing with 3 weeks after stopping. I was willing to try it, but not willing to be in pain. There are other ways to keep the er down.
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Day, good, I will make a tea with the yarrow and cornsilk. I have those. I have some great caps for urinary to put in too, and Hubby brought home cranberry juice. Still very sore and when I need to go, it hurts across pelvic bone area, do not want the burning, don't want to go there. There was this really low toilet at a coffee house, was in no position to do business standing up and I was leary and wiped it but I think that is the culprit. Probably e coli. Also taking now colloidal silver, forgot to do so all day.
Later all.
Purple, I am going to get you back one day when I remember to jokester on you.
Essa
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Maybe you should also try some bath down there with calendula petals? The yarrow should do the trick if you drink a cup about every 8 hours. Make sure you do an infusion and not decoct, and about 5 minutes covered not more.I forgot about that. Camomille is strong in decoct but yarrow flower in infusion due to the volatile oils.
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Bluebird, that answered my questions. I wanted to be sure I had the terminology right.
You could, of course, try the pills and go off them if the SEs are too much for you. When did you have the PET that showed nodes further than the axillary involved?
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Also when I say I am steering away from the drugs for hormone control due to the experiences of others, you ask me which others and say we are in the natural forum.
I'm not teasing.
If you are on the " SEs of arimidex forum' you will hear all the nasty SEs of arimidex. If you are on the LE forum, you will learn about lymphedma. If on the natural forum, you may be more inclined to steer clear of conventional meds. I know- I've been on all the forums.I merely suggested you consider what the ONC was saying - ping.
OK, having said all that - dont get me wrong:
NO radiation for meNO arimidex
NO tamox etc etc etc ... but essentially, no treatment. Sometimes our choices just suck.
I havent found anything in the alternatives that I feel good about either ! I have other health issues which dont mix well with traditional stuff but not so much with ' naturals ' either. We are all different. What I do is not right for everyone- hell, may not even be right for ME!
Follow your conscience. Personally, think thee protest too much! Cosider the onc.
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Baths are not a good idea at all for UTIs.
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Now I am confused about taking Melatonin. I am trying to get off sleeping pills and the last 2 nights I tried it again. I didn't sleep all night but I did sleep. Why are some articles saying it can help cancers and now it might hurt with EP cancers?
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Hi Claudia, it is very confusing and I believe the reason for that is that a lot of the research may not distinguish between ER pos and ER neg BC. What's good for triple neg may not be good for us. A lot of plants contain phytoestrogens, some much more than others. As far as I can tell, melatonin can be very powerful and even though I'm post-menopausal, I choose not to take it. My logic: if conventional medicine is still concerned with estrogen past menopause giving out AIs, then I certainly will not promote estrogen in my body by taking strong phytoestrogens the likes of soy, melatonin, etc. I guess, it comes down to how much risk one is willing to take and your pathology report
Hope this helps
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I had surgery. I had radiation. I tried the hormonal therapy. 7 months. Severe side effects. Severe. Im told 3 months. In 3 months Ill start to fee like myself again.
Yes, its not everyones experience. You really have to listen to your instincts, your doctor (sometimes), your research, other women whove been thru it.....and in the end - its your body, your journey, your decision, your gut feeling. ITs what YOU can live with in the end.....that will let you sleep (or not) at night.
I can clearly say it was the right decision to try it - and the right decision to stop it.
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Purple - it wasn't about a total bath, it was about a bath "down there". In Europe we'd use what is called a "bidet" for that, but here in the US you can just buy any kind of plastic bassinet and use it only for that, and before use rinse it with a mild bleach dilution then rinse it again very well. You only put your bottom in the plant decoct. Calendula is known to clear not just UTIs but also yeast infections if used that way.
Vanilla - there is a different mechanism of producing estrogen once you are menopausal. It is not produced by your ovaries anymore. It is not the FSH (produced by the ovaries) levels that you must be concerned about anymore at menopause, but the estradiol levels. Estrogen at menopause is produced by fat cells (from testosterone produced by the ovaries - no relation to FSH - and by androstenedione produced by the adrenal glands) and stored, again, in fat cells.
So a supplement that may cause production of FSH after menopause is, really, irrelevant even if you were ER+ as long as you're menopausal. You should be more concerned with any extra weight (as in fat accumulation) than about anything else. And I mean, anything else. Having extra fat is the most dangerous thing if you're menopausal and had a strong ER+ tumor. This is why I am so desperate to lose the weight I put on during treatment and it's my no. 1 priority.
Maybe this article can explain better than I can
http://www.umm.edu/patiented/articles/what_menopause_000040_1.htm
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Day, I came to a similar conclusion early on, i.e. that staying at a low weight was probably one of the best things I could do for myself along with getting adequate exercise. It is not exciting, magical or easy, but I do feel a lot better.
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I know it's not easy, I've been trying for a year now and started being successful only in the last month. After being pushed in chemopause, taking AIs for a while and taking anti-thryoid medication made this seem like a losing battle, but slowly slowly I'm getting there. 12 lbs gone 38 more to go.
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12 down, that is great. I was heavy at DX and it seemed like I shrank along with the tumor. I was lucky that way. Now I am trying to stay that way, and hopefully lower my blood sugar in the process.
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Day, I get what you're saying. But I have read on other threads and elsewhere about the pre and post menopause issue and how one is walking a very fine line when trying to determine menopausal status. Unless, of course, you're 70 + or so. Even oncs won't take a chance with women in the 50-60 range. Are they playing safe, surely.
Weight is not an issue for me, my BMI is within normal range. However, I was strongly ER pos, so, something was/is driving my estrogen.
No doubt, there's a ton of research in favour of melatonin for breast cancer. I guess at this point, I'm just listening to my gut. Because melatonin has not resolved my sleep issue, I'm therefore reluctant to use it as a preventative for BC because of its strong estrogenic potential. There's also pro-soy research out there for ER+ BC which at this time I'm not blindly willing to acknowledge.
Like I said above, we have to determine for ourselves how much risk we are willing to take and that goes for natural as well as conventional therapies. As far as I'm concerned, I took a huge risk going conventional and have to live with its consequences. Call me Prudence.....
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Try plain Greek yogurt both topically and by ingesting for your UTI. Sounds weird, but it helps.
It took me about 3-6 months to get back to normal after the AI's. Some things were better within days, some a few weeks/months, and 1 or 2 look like they may be permanant. Sleep was definately better after a short time. The joint pain took a little longer. The vision issues are here to stay I think, although over alll my eyes are healthy. It just worsened my vision.
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Everybody says don't take sleeping pills. If Melatonin is bad for estogren positive cancer what can I take? I have been taking Arimidex for a month and half. My surgery was in November and Radiation in December (internal). I have only seen my oncologist once and have another appointment in April. I have an unusual auto immune skin problem (dermatomyositis) which can cause fatigue and other issues. I really don't know what doctor I am suppose to talk to about what. I have to have some sleep (I have a crazy stress filled life). I had a chiropractor who was trying to help me with natural supplements but the costs started being too much.
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Claudia, there are a lot of precautionary measures one can take when suffering from insomnia, for example, a fresh dark room, bed before 10, no computer/TV/alcohol/exercise, eating carbs and protein like a banana and milk right before bed, and the list goes on, but I'm sure you've looked into that. Insomnia can have so many causes like hypoglycemia, cortisol surges, anxiety, pain, distress associated with dx, etc. Also, I believe there is a correlation between low estrogen and insomnia
I guess one has to eliminate those causes one at a time to determine what could help. There's also a lot of gadgets like earphones that emit white noise and binaural beats. I find relaxation and meditation music/sounds help me unwind. U-Tube has a great selection. If the supps your chiro gave you were working, you could try a combo as opposed to taking them individually which would be cheaper. Shopping around on the net or at your health food store could be helpful. The most common herbs used for insomnia include valerian root, passionflower, hops (but estrogenic) also 5-HTP, magnesium. You could also turn to homeopathy. But then these will not knock you out like a sleeping pill would...I've had insomnia for as long as I can remember and still to this day I resist taking meds
This study concluded that treatment (radio and chemo) caused insomnia in breast cancer patients, very interesting
www.journalsleep.org/Articles/240509.pdf
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Momine - I found out Monday. My last PT was June 2012.
Melatonin.... all I know is the natural endocrinologist knew I had ER+ PR+ bc at 95% ea and rx-ed melatonin for me, along with the bioidentical progesterone cream. I came to trust all of it. From what I learned from him, the progesterone is also key for the estrogen. In Outsmart Your Cancer and the book he gave me, it was all explained.
The oncologist's information on the estrogen still circulating at low levels being a concern, that takes me spinning off into more confusion, knowing now though I have already done the footwork to know what I want.
I came here, to this thread for help with it. I was confused, tired, getting ill, have memory problems anyway.
I received that help though and much more from those who wanted to give info on UTIs. The Greek yogurt I am eating too. Am 95% improved from the worst of it. What a roll.
Purple, the decision to not take on conventional tx, we are the same. I have done more alternative I think, but only surgery otherwise.
I still do not understand why you prod me to consider the oncologist and the drug? And to say to me that I protest too much? When I came for clarity and assistance? I think you have been very rude for no reason.
I am tired. Here, I am done. No further comments. Unless I forget that I removed this thread, which is highly likely.
Please, all who were so helpful, don't take this personally.
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Bluebird, forgive me for being so confused all the time, but are you saying that your last PET was in June and you only got the results this past Monday?
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Bluebird - i hope you dont leave - i really enjoy your posts........
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Yogurt is good for yeast infection, not for UTI. One is a mycosis (fungal infection that is sensitive to the probiotics in the yogurt), the other one is bacterial and those types of bacterias couldn't care less about yogurt. Yeast infection happens in the vagina, UTI in the urinary tract. Two different systems. As for "topical" I very much doubt anyone would be willing to pump yogurt up their urethra.
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sleepytime extra tea by celestial seasonings puts me right out.
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