Treating estrogen responsive cancer naturally
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Be careful with raw dairy. Most hard or semisoft cheeses made from raw milk by reputable dairies (e.g., Roth, Old Chatham, Cypress Grove) are safe, but there have recently been listeria outbreaks from smaller dairies' soft cheeses. Raw milk is only available from the farmer or at farmers' markets. Yogurt does not have to be raw to have active probiotic cultures. The best other than homemade is Fage (the unflavored versions), which unlike Chobani or Oikos have no fillers or gums. It used to be imported from Greece, but it is now made in the US using the same recipe and procedures.
I also get my probiotics from pickles and raw sauerkraut, as well as taking the Probiotic America products (Perfect Biotics—their basic 30-billion version; Extra Strains; Vital Biotics—aids metabolism; and Perfect Flora—eases flatulence and helps digestion). And even beer (artisanal craft, that is) has probiotics! (The “Fermented" chapter of Michael Pollan's Cooked names some surprising benefits of fermented foods).
I drink only milk products with no hormones or antibiotics. (Organic Valley, Horizon and FairLife). Mostly whole (saturated fat is not harmful). Some claim that even organic dairy can carry certain cancer risks from the pastures on which the cattle graze and the soils in which the grass grows, but that is truly splitting the atom, IMHO.
There was an article today in Cancer Therapy Advisor that says the jury is still out on turmeric's benefits for cancer—and some evidence that it could even interfere with the cytotoxic effects of chemo.
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It's not organic milk unless the cows are grazing on organic land.
Because of the unhealthy products contained therein, I haven't bought food from a conventional grocery store in over 20 years. The outbreaks from foods therein that are supposedly "inspected" and "safe" are reported in the news often.
As a rule, I don't drink much milk, just cultured dairy. But in my opinion, a local organic farmer (biodynamic even better) selling raw milk provides good medicine.
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I have been reading some research re; melatonin and its interaction with estrogen; however the data is older. Are there any new data on this topic; say newer than 2009?
Also I am new to natural medicine. I am currently awaiting surgery and want to do everything I can to slow the tumours growth.
also 20 mg per night seems pretty high- is there any research with a smaller dose?
Any other suggestions for a newbie who is awaiting surgery and it would not be contraindicated prior to surgery?
thank you
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Melatonin at that strength over a longer period of time can harm your kidneys. NO. Even 3mg can do that over an extended time, while 1mg is the normal, therapeutic safe dose. Just because it is natural does not mean it is safe.
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i have been looking for info for quite a long time now that addresses the safety of plant sourced melatonin vs.natural vs. synthetic. I have only ever felt comfortable taking the plant sourced, as melatonin is a hormone.
I have found a 3mg/pill. I only use symptomatically, not daily, yet.
Curious if anyone else is sticking to plant sourced?
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Melatonin is actually used to support people when they have kidney problems.
I am using Pure Encapsulations brand. It's the most expensive. I trust this company. I don't think you can get plant-based Melatonin that meets the desired levels. I agree that 20 mg seems high, but am trusting my team on this one.
A pharmacist who did my medicine reconciliation at DFCI said that it was safe for Est+BC. Both oncologists were ok with the high dose.
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Thyme is that 'healing factor' of homemade chicken soup. I don't eat chicken anymore, but like to put thyme in my rice with a bit of bouillon. It also makes a nice tea.
"The researchers in this study found thyme to be one of the top six herbs that displayed the best ability to bind to both estrogen and progesterone receptors. "
"Researchers found that thyme oil had the best ability to inhibit MCF-7 breast cancer cells"
https://thetruthaboutcancer.com/thyme-essential-oi...
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This speaks more specifically about why/how fiber is helpful for preventing/fighting breast cancer, (starts at about 36.30 min)
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/from-table-to-abl...
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Thanks, mapat.
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Mapat, thanks for the link. When I read a little obsessively after DX, I quite quickly found that the claims for various supplements and substances were typically sketchy and based on weak science, if any at all. However, one clear exception was the importance of fibre. That doesn't mean that a high-fibre diet will keep the beast at bay forever, but it may actually help, and it is something we can do that has no downside. It basically means lots of veggies, switching white starches to high-fibre grains, legumes and seeds, having nuts for a snack instead of chips or baked goods etc. It is good for overall health, aids weight control and it isn't really that difficult, once you are mindful of it.
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One of many reasons I no longer eat meats. Short (4 min) video about the estrogenic effects of cooked meats.
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/estrogenic-cooked...
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I find it interesting that the medical world will not look at foods and natural products for prevention of cancer. I am not against drugs but they are not perfect either. I am one of the many ladies that cannot tolerate the ALS. The MO said that my choices were take it or choose not if my quality of life was not there. He did not have any other options for me. He also admitted that it was not a guarantee that if I struggled through 5 years I would not get cancer again or even while taking it. It would be so helpful it there would be more studies done to help see if natural ways really work and which ones work the best. Unfortunately the money is with the drug companies not with the independent physician who would like to see alternatives.l
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Brutersmom
There are some published studies, but not in the US. Like you stated no money for profit in it. Will do some digging and post links.
Several clinical studies in the US are popping up regarding nutrition and exercise, but have an interesting spin on how they are obtaining funding. They are not looking at the prevention side, but are linking to the survivorship areas of healthy choices after-the-fact.
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Brutersmom, there are several studies which have found a survival advantage from exercise and maintaining a healthy BMI. The evidence is strong enough that my cancer docs actively encourage patients to exercise.
There is also relatively strong evidence to suggest that a diet high in veggies etc. may give you an edge over the cancer.
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Yes, the link between survivorship and exercise can't be any stronger!!
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Brutersmon / yoga_girl:
Dietary studies are notoriously hard to do. Most direct evidence, meaning observed experimentally, comes from mice or cell lines in the petri dish and such results are indications at best - human beings are not mice and a whole organism reacts different to cells in the lab.
Experimental studies would need to be done over a long period of time but it is not possible to limit study participants over a long time to a strict diet (to be able to exclude interacting factors) and it would also be difficult to control the adherence to the protocol. It would also be unethical - studies will usually only be given the go ahead if participants receive the standard treatment plus an extra scientists are interested in, or there have to be very clear indications that the treatment will work through prior results.
Most diary studies are observational studies and rely on what people report, and on top of that, very often retrospectively. Obviously people have a selective memory in general and there is also the known tendency to give the "acceptable" answer. People may downplay their alcohol consumption, for instance. It is also very hard to exclude other factors that could influence the result. Many studies just control for the most obvious factors, such as age, BMI etc and do not take in all co-existing conditions, for example.
The inherent weakness of such research leads to the abundance often contradictory recommendations. I personally would not want to exclusively rely on such shaky evidence. I agree with Momine, there is some quite reliable evidence out there for exercise and a diet high in vegetables.
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Sharing published articles on cancer, nutrition and exercise.
No two cancers are the same. How a body will react to surgery, chemo and/or rads is nothing we can predict. Our desire and adaptation to nutrition and exercise is a very personal choice involving emotional and physical strength and energy, striving for the best quality of life we can map out on any given day in this journey of survivorship.
NIH clinical research, Nutrition & Exercise
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5112289/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2645853/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921609/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1557657/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3113520/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2636962/
Nutrition & Exercise Articles
http://ww5.komen.org/BreastCancer/HealthyWeightampDiet.html#Eating-a-healthy-diet
http://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/features/eating-right-during-cancer-treatment#1
https://www.bcna.org.au/media/2132/bcna-healthy-eating-booklet.pdf
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/breast_center/treatments_services/nutrition.html
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Thanks, yoga girl..
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Hi! I completely agree. When I was diagnosed 12 years ago I couldn't believe that there were no natural products, especially personal care products to use during and after treatment. My skin was SO DRY and my hair...what was there was gross!! I made a few things myself in my kitchen during treatment and they worked out awesome. Trial and error. I did just not whip stuff up. They worked so great that I started Pristine Beauty. I make only things that are completely natural and in BPA free packaging or glass so that the product inside does not get contaminated by chemicals of any kind. I worried ALL THE TIME. I was diagnosed at 31 with no family history. Blindsided for sure as all of us are at the time of diagnosis.
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That would probably be because watercress is high in B17. There is a cookbook called The Little Cyanide Cookbook with a lot of recipes using foods that are naturally high in B17. There are entire books written on the substance and its cancer-fighting qualities.
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I watched a TED talk that stated fat has factors that encourage angiogenesis (blood vessel formation) and basically stated that obesity was one of the three leading "causes" of cancer. The speaker was speaking specifically about antiangiogenesis and mentioned decreasing our obesity would decrease the angiogenesis factors thereby indirectly helping to slow the growth of cancer (which needs angiogenesis to grow). Also, exercise increases oxygenation which can help act against free radical formation and DNA damage.
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mama_green--What were the other 2 causes? I'm assuming one of them is our weakened immune system from our damaged gut flora caused by the Standard American Diet?
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Hi All~
I found the study that I copied below on another thread that focuses on BC and Autoimmune disorders.
I am curious if any one on this thread has taken AI's/goserelin and had similar issues.
I have been having significant pain in my feet, shins and hands/wrists/elbows for about 2 months, at times its so bad that I can't make it to work. After changing my AI prescription from arimidex to letrozole and not seeing a change, my oncologist has now told me that my pain 'is not related to my BC diagnosis' and that I'm on my own.
I am 43, have been getting gosrelin shots every month and taking an AI daily since 10/16. Also did one round of TC chemo and 33 rounds of radiation.
I was handling life and my semi physical full time job fairly well until, two months ago.... then the minor pain and discomfort became much worse. Pain that I could not get rid of without heavy pain pills.
Has anyone out there experienced something like this and stopped treatment to see if the symptoms abate? I realize its unlikely, but worth asking. I stay up on the alt. med and complimentary med forums but haven't been able to search them all.
I am assuming that I will eventually be diagnosed with some kind of myalgia or other autoimmune sitch if things continue unchanged.
I am pretty down and nervous. thanks for any feedback.
J Rheumatol. 2007 Nov;34(11):2259-63. Epub 2007 Oct 15.
Joint pain with aromatase inhibitors: abnormal frequency of Sjögren's syndrome.Laroche M1, Borg S, Lassoued S, De Lafontan B, Roché H.
Author information Abstract OBJECTIVE:Since the results of the ATAC study, women who have undergone surgery for breast cancer and who require adjuvant hormone therapy are often treated with aromatase inhibitors. With these treatments, joint pain is frequent (30% to 40%) and quite often disabling (5% to 10%). Our objective was to investigate the origin of the pain induced by the anti-aromatases.
METHODS:Twenty-four women of mean age 59 years with joint pain of > 5/10 on a visual analog scale underwent a rheumatological consultation and systematic laboratory tests.
RESULTS:In 5 patients, pain was considered to have a well defined cause: osteoarthritis, shoulder tendinitis, or paraneoplastic aponeurositis. The other 19 patients had inflammatory pain of the fingers, wrists, shoulders, forefeet, ankles, or knees, with slight synovial thickening of the PIP and MCP joints. Two had an inflammatory syndrome on laboratory tests. Nine of these patients had antinuclear antibodies (ANA > 1/160 on HEp-2 cells) and 4 had rheumatoid factors (> 20 U). Ten patients had sicca syndrome of the eyes or mouth, 7 had probable Sjögren's syndrome according to the San Diego criteria, and one had definite Sjögren's syndrome. One had rheumatoid arthritis, one had Hashimoto thyroiditis, and 2 had positive hepatitis C serology.
CONCLUSION:Is the almost total estrogen depletion induced by aromatase inhibitors conducive to the development of sicca syndromes with ANA? Our results should be considered in relation to the Sjögren-like syndromes occurring in aromatase knock-out mice as recently reported.
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Mama Green, there does seem to be bits and pieces floating around about gut flora and cancer. Among other things, gut flora may have an influence on how estrogen is metabolized. I also saw a study, just the other day, where patients receiving one of the new targeted cancer therapies, in this case not for breast cancer, had their gut flora monitored during treatment. Apparently there was a correlation between healthy gut flora and good response to the therapy.
I took probiotics all through chemo, with my onc's blessing. At the time, I was simply doing it to deal with thrush and intestinal issues (and it worked quite well, to the point that the other oncs started asking what I was doing). Some years later, I found a small study which suggested that probiotics during chemo might also boost the efficacy of the treatment.
So, although none of this is conclusive in any way, I do limit white starch, aim for a high-fibre, varied diet, and still take probiotics on and off. Apparently the fibre in artichokes and asparagus is particularly helpful to the gut, but in general, it is just a matter of eating high-fibre carbs instead of white rice, potatoes and pasta, getting enough veggies, and eating more plant foods than animal foods. It is not really difficult once you get in the habit. This way of eating also seems helpful in terms of keeping weight stable, which goes to the obesity issue.
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Sarahrae, I'm so sorry that your onc is claiming that your pain is unrelated to your treatment. He/she needs a reality check! All over these boards you can read about women who are experiencing that same SEs as you. Currently, I'm awake a 2:40 AM, writing to you, bc the pain in my ankles and feet woke me and I couldn't get back to sleep! I'm on almost the same schedule as you- started Lupron in Nov 2016 and have seen SEs worsen. My natural approach to treating bc is to practice yoga regularly. I'm on an 8week hiatus, unfortunately, bc I had DIEP Flap surgery in May. I'm hopeful that I'll return to better ROM and less joint pain once I resume my yoga practice.0
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Neuropathy pain and options for managing
https://community.breastcancer.org/forum/136/topics/844633?page=1&post_creation=true#post_5001803
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Hi everyone. Just to get back to thread topic. I treat my estrogen positive naturally and do not do anti hormone therapy. Please let me know if anyone wants more details. Good luck to all...
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dtad I'd like to know what you're doing
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Hi kira. I have lost 30 pounds since diagnosis and try to exercise daily. I also take several supplements including DIM in leu of an anti hormone. I also take melatonin, baby aspirin, mushroom extract and berberine to regulate blood sugar. Hope that helps!
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Falconer~
Thanks so much for the kind words and suggestion! Yes, yoga would be fabulous and I have been looking to see if i can find a class that happens after work and before school pick up.... also, one that would be gentle
Agreed, regarding my onc's response. ridiculous!!!! The delivery was not the best either, unfortunately. It's hard to imagine that they truly don't see the connections, maybe they are frustrated as well, having to work within the industry restrictions, who knows.
Sending you a bunch of healing juju and hope you can get back to the mat soon!!
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